₦airaland Forum

Splinz:
Good. That's the more reason why you should let it go.

Does it matter whether you're right and he's wrong, or vice versa? No, it does not, the truth is unchangeable.

Please let it go. We could be together on the same journey of finding the truth and embracing it. The only difference is that in a race, everybody cannot run at the same speed. However, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't catch up with others. It's just a matter of time.

You raised some important facts but there are still a lot you have not addressed.

ihedinobi2:
Let me try to explain this again to you.

I'm a pastor-teacher. Therefore, it is always my joy to explain Scriptures to anyone who wishes to understand them. I rejoice in biblical questions. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here on Nairaland, since this platform is really an unpleasant place to be most of the time; at least, for me it is. So I would be happy to answer your questions. The reason that I haven't is that I have debated with you before. You were very insulting and very unreasonable then. Why would I want to repeat the experience? Even just mentioning to you that we have had this discussion before was reason enough for you to start hurling insults at me.

You clearly are here to win debates. I am not. I am here to offer help to understand the Bible, if anyone is willing to accept my help. If they are not, I keep my understanding to myself. The times when I make an exception and appear to go on the offensive are those times when unscrupulous clout-chasing men teach obvious lies to cause other believers to stumble. I didn't even attack you here as I could have, although I think of you as one of such men. Rather, I offered you a gentle reminder that you have discussed these things before and failed to give them proper attention. I warned you to be careful of teaching errors reminding you of the consequences of misleading believers in Jesus Christ. That's all.

If you were really serious about finding out what my arguments against your position are, you would have found them by now. I already gave you links that would have eventually led you to them. I will give you the actual links to them now, but that's all I will do. I can't copypaste them without having my post tagged and my account banned. That was why my post with my main account got hidden and why I'm responding with my other account.

Now, I know you. I am confident that this will only give you more reason to abuse me. If you do, this will be the last olive branch that I'm extending to you. I am very very good at mockery. If I consider it good for other believers, I will hound you wherever I find you teaching lies again and show you how I can help you embarrass yourself. I make a point of avoiding insolence, although I know that some things I say are considered insulting (like calling you a wannabe pastor-teacher who is making wild and foolish claims about hell), but even when I do, those things I say are very deliberate and put in a way that is an accusation rather than a mere insult. I don't believe that you are a true pastor-teacher, for example. I'm not even sure that you're a believer. But I know that what you did here is produce a teaching, therefore you are acting like you are a pastor-teacher. Your teaching includes claims about hell that even a rudimentary understanding of the Bible will easily show are wrong, therefore your production of those claims is wild and reckless. The "foolish" bit is because of your stubborn assumption that you are right and your declaration that disagreement with you is error even though the Bible is obvious in its declaration of your error.

I may end this conversation at this point after providing the link. Respond as you please. Feel free to ignore everything I have just said and insult me. I will handle it as it pleases me to do. Here are the links now:

https://www.nairaland.com/5520177/man-satan-immortality/2#84179599

https://www.nairaland.com/5520177/man-satan-immortality/2#84179624

I hope for your good. I hope that you will not end up bringing judgment upon yourself. I hope that rather than the condemnation of the destroyers of God's Church you will qualify for the blessing and peace of those who work hard to minister life to the children of God. I hope that this is your own hope too.

You say you are a pastor-teacher?

Show me how I am wrong.

I did not write the Bible neither you,
You have no right to select Bible verses that suit your preconceived idea why leaving out other Bible verses that contradicts your idea.

You and other self acclaimed men of God are guilty of that.

Why are you running away from some Bible verses why picking some?

Why not write your own Bible.

Are you sure you are a pastor? Because as one you should correct me when am wrong rather than shy away.

What if am a thief or a prostitute and I happen to come across you, does it mean that you cannot point out my sins and correct me using God's word?

Ihedinobi3:
LOL!!!

What you made is called "a conditional statement" both in English and in philosophy. What it means is exactly that your god would strike me if I didn't shut up. I'll gladly teach you simple things like this because it amuses me to do so.

So you are lying again. And your tomfoolery is obvious.

The short of it is that you know that your god can do no such thing as you claim. Had anything happened to me just then, you would be rushing to claim that you are a prophet and that no one should oppose your madness unless they wished to be struck too. But since nothing happened, you're looking for an escape. You are a liar, sir, and the tragic news is not even that; rather it is that you know that you are and you don't care. Your ego is more important to you than the truth, so fluffing your feathers and strutting like a proud peacock is really all you care about doing.

Carry on. It's your life and your own eventual judgment to bear.

Now you are digressing from me, saying God will strike you to it been a conditional statement.

Am sure someone showed you the difference.
If you had sense you will know what is a warning and what is alright curse.

I have never claimed anything, the fact is I do not want to be a pastor or prophet.
I only used them as examples, before you start insinuating that I claimed to be one, you have habit of lieing.

Secondly if you are smart or had any sense you would have aleast pick one point in the article and show me why am wrong, they say 2 wrongs cannot make a right.

You cannot disprove me, but your pride and naivety would not allow me and my thread to be.

Why would I take you serious?
For over 6months am still waiting for your response on my other thread where you said the soul cannot die when I proved with over 6 verses that it can die.

Till date you have not shown me any proof to the contrary.

Are you not ashamed to come online to exhibit your level of ignorance?

I still insist that you disprove this article, show people why am a false teacher.
It's simple.
E.g Hell is existing now, you give bible verses to support your claim.
2. Hell will last for eternity, you give Bible verse to support your claim.


Is that too hard for Mr Know all?

Splinz:
Hello friend, thank you for your response.



Not really. I wanted us to have a foundation, starting with Christ's arrival. This is to make for easy understanding of events thereafter. I like it when it's one step at a time. So let's go...



No. Here's the truth:

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God, For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now" (Romans 8:19-22).

There you have it. The creation itself, i.e, the universe, awaits the glorious revealing of the sons and daughters of God, in order to be set free from its bondage and decay. This will happen when Christ sits on the "throne of his father David" and the saved are some sort of inaugurated or commissioned by Christ to begin the government of God or heaven on Earth. This period will spans for a thousand years in the first instance.

It's God own pleasure to renew the face of the Earth through His glorified sons and daughters; the saved.



Throughout the Bible, the word “heaven” is used to describe three locations: First, there is the atmosphere that envelops the earth; this is the first heaven. Next, the vast regions of outer space are collectively referred to as “heaven,” or “the heavens” (Psalms 115:16); this is the second heaven. Finally, the location of God’s throne is specifically called “the third heaven” by Paul (II Cor. 12:2).

Since no one is going into the third heaven - God's throne, even David is not in heaven (John 3:13, Acts 2:34), only two possibilities remain;

1. Outer space

2. The atmosphere or clouds (1 Thes. 4:17).

With our knowledge of physics, also note, clouds, as mentioned in 1 Thes. 4:17, are only a few miles above the earth. In fact, flying an airplane is in a sense, going to heaven.

So then, I Thes. 4:17 does not picture people going to the third heaven, but the glorified saints ascending into the atmosphere. Consider:

Christ arrives Jerusalem and is seated on His throne (Matt. 25:31-34). Next, He send out His angels to gather His elects from the four corners of the earth (Matt. 24:30-31). How else are the angels supposed to gather the saints if not through ascension and descension, what some people called the act of "disappearing and appearing"?

Again, note that these glorified saints are to appear before Christ's judgement seat, and it has been established that this is not in heaven but right here on Earth: Jerusalem.



The word in bold says it all; reserved in heaven. Simply put, a Christian's reward is kept or reserved in heaven, to be revealed or given to those that are worthy at the coming of Christ. That it is reserved in heaven does not mean the saved are to go to heaven in order to get it: Christ is bringing it. Here's it:

"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work" (Rev. 22:12). Did you see that? He is coming with His reward and not us going to get it.

My friend, please let's talk another time. If there's anything I missed, please bring it forth.

Many thanks.

You are sounding like JW people.

I would like you to answer those questions in my previous quote.

Splinz:
Hello bro, thank you for your response.



Very good. We must also recognize that this is how it stands forever, without an exception in whatever form.



Now, let's tie pieces of scriptures together to form a coherent whole. Of course as a rule, "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little" (Isaiah 28:10).

We'll start with Jesus arrival, as captured in Matthew 24:30 and elsewhere. It does appears like this is where a lot of people missed it, as the common thinking is that He is coming to take people to heaven or whisked them out of the earth.

Matthew 25:31-34 contains vital knowledge and readily helps in our discussion here. Actually, Matthew 25:31-34 is a continuation of the truth in Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Corinth. 15:51-52 and 1 Thes. 4:15-16. All these events are interconnected. Remember, "...line upon line...".

Let's take note of at least 3 cardinal points in Matthew 25;

1. Throne

2. Nations

3. Kingdom prepared...

So verse 31 pictures Jesus arrival, and He sits on His glorious throne. Now, we don't have to speculate or assume where this throne will be. The bible will always interpret itself, and Luke 1:32-33 prophecy holds the answer. Yes, He will sit on the "...throne of His father David". And this is no other place but Jerusalem, where king David ruled in the past. A new Jerusalem is coming, where the tabernacle of God will be with man (Rev. 21:2-3).

Next we see that the nations of the earth are gathered and those faithful ones are rewarded and are told finally, to "inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the earth". Does this prepared place or kingdom rings a bell? Yes, it should! Remember the prepared place in John 14:2-3 which you quoted? Oh yes...

As an addition, the word translated "mansion" does not refer to a literal one or a building. It means: offices, i.e, positions of authority. As a very good example, take a look at this:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matt. 19:28). Did you see that? The twelves apostles already have their positions of authority reserved by Christ, in the resurrection. Also, this truth flies against those coveting heaven, so to speak.

The whole scenario, settings or events happens and revolves around no other place but the earth! Nobody is raptured anywhere, supposedly to the third heaven (John 3:13).

My friend, take your time and go through it, do your own findings: prove it (1 Thes. 5:21). And please don't forget to bring back your findings.

Many thanks.

You left a lot out, and you did not refute or digest the other points I raised.

But before we go further, I will like you to answer this questions.
1. Will the saved inherit the Earth in it's current form?
2.What about the new Earth and Heaven God said he will recreate?
If the saved are not raputured, then what is that the Bible says will happen in 1 Thessalonians 4:15.

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord".

3. I hope you know that Paul said this Earth will be destroyed with fire along with the wicked?


Also note that the saved are told there reward is in Heaven.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Luke 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Arrowss:
Pls may I see the prove? Any document or anything on it?

I could not locate the site, but for now here is an article by scientists explaining it as a product of human brain and imagination. when the brain is going through strain.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-near-death-experiences-reveal-about-the-brain/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_studies

https://www.24-7pressrelease.com/press-release/464434/near-death-experiences-are-not-the-truth-of-scripture-raymond-moody-and-dr-eben-alexander-are-not-final-authorities

Ihedinobi3:
"So you better shut up before God who has laid this as a burden in my heart and life would strike you."
https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire/3#97438256

That's exactly what you said. But of course you'd lie about it just as you have been lying about everything else on this thread.

Like I said before you lack comprehension.
There is big difference from saying God will or should strike you and what I wrote," before God"

Everyone who read my quote knows that it was a warning to you to desist from confusing and distracting the thread hence my use of the word "before"

What did you score in English?
An F I guess

Arrowss:
Pls may I see the prove? Any document or anything on it?

Thanks for your response.
I saw it on a site owned by the Adventist Church but I cannot remember the exact site.

But using our sense of reasoning and Bible evidence we can conclude that what those people claim they saw was fake and not real Heaven or Hell becos.

1. Hell fire will be on Earth here and the fire has not be Kindled.
If they really saw Hell then were is it located? It cannot be on this our Earth becos the Earth now is not burning.

2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


2.Jesus said Hell will be at the end of the World and you can agree with me that the world has not ended.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.



3. NO dead person goes to Heaven or Hell immediately after death until the day of judgement.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Even David has not gone to Heaven yet.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished


4. There will be a resurrection and judgement of the saved and unsaved before they are rewarded, thus sent to Heaven or Hell and you will agree with me that has not taken place.

Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.


John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day


Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works


5.The Devil and his Demons are not in Hell now.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

5.People will be rewarded with Heaven or Hell when Jesus come not before he comes.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


I will search for that site and send it as soon as I get.

Ihedinobi3:
Hi.

Just thought to mention to you that your god hasn't struck me yet. How long do you suppose he will take to get to the striking? And how will you know that he has?

Also, your post is crazy ironic. You must have been addressing the mirror when you wrote it.

See response of someone claiming to know?
You are disgrace to Christianity.

I never said God should strike you as you now claim. I only warned you that God do strike people who oppose his word and work.
Read carefully and comprehend before you comment, you are in public stop making mockery of yourself.

Every one on this thread is observing how you keep dodging the question i asked you, to point out where I am wrong and give the correct answer.

But you would not becos you know nothing.

Splinz:
Thank you.

Do you mind to expound on how this will work out? You did a great job with the hell topic. I trust you can do it again.

Please prove it.

Sorry for the late reply.

Here is my take on it.
First we must recognize the fact that God has made the Heaven for himself and the Earth has been made for man and his children.

Psalm 115:16
The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he
given to the children of men.

Psalms 37:11
Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be : yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be . But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.


Psalms 37:11
“But the meek shall inherit the earth;
and shall delight themselves in the
abundance of peace.”
King James Version (KJV)


Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

After the fall (when Adam and Eve sinned against God), they lost custodianship of the Earth to Satan.

Christ by his death has restored custodianship to Man.


*Some facts to support my idea that Heaven will be a temporary home for the righteous.

1.Christ promised his disciples that he was going to prepare a place for them, where he will be with them and he said it was in his father's house.
It's obvious that christ was talking about Heaven not Earth.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2* the Resurrection and Rapture of the dead and living saints.

It's well known teaching that on the 2nd coming of Christ the dead in christ will resurrect with new bodies and the living saints will also be transformed in their bodies and both groups will be caught up to meet Christ in the Air from where they will depart to Heaven.


1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

3*The Holy city, Jerusalem which descends from?
The bible says that the new Jerusalem descends from Heaven after 1000yrs.
This is revealed in Rev 20:1 from verse 1 to 5 we read how the Devil is imprisoned and judgement was given to the saints, we are also told that the rest of the dead(which is the wicked) did not lived again till the end of 1000yrs.
From verse 7 we read that Satan is released from his prison after the 1000yrs and goes out to deceive the nations(the unsaved people)
They surround the new Jerusalem which came down from Heaven, and fire comes down and devour them.
Verse 20:9.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Its apparent that the Holy Jerusalem which comes down from Heaven is the home of the righteous and comes down to Earth after God has created the New Heaven and Earth.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Conclusion.
God's plan was for man to dominate and rule the Earth but that plan was disrupted when man fell, God by his mercy has restored man's dominion through the death and resurrection of his son, Jesus. Man will rule the Earth.

The coming of Jesus will change the Earth surface as those who will not be raptured ( the unsaved) will be destroyed and left on the surface of the Earth.Rev20:6

The Earth will be uninhabitable for the saved to be here.
They will be taken to Heaven as i mentioned earlier until God judges the wicked(2nd resurrection) and cleanse the Earth with fire.
Then the righteous can now inherit and reside on Earth for eternity just as God planned it before the fall.
Thank you.

Ihedinobi3:
I would be quite impressed if this god that laid these things on your heart and life were able at all to strike anybody at all.

As for your thread, I have said several times that I will not talk with you. You don't care for the truth, and you're abusive. I don't waste my time and energy on people like that.

Still, I have answered this madness you wrote up here elsewhere. You can go back to the link I posted earlier and see my responses to your ideas. I have nothing new to add to them.

I cannot stop laughing at you.
You refer me to your past responses which you could not prove and left several questions unanswered.

You make yourself a laughing stock,
Mr soul cannot die, even when the Bible is clear about the fact that the soul can die and would die.

The worst type of ignorance is the type you are having, when one does not know that he is ignorant and passes himself as a genius.

Ihedinobi3:
Very well then.

I’m not sure what you think “ancient and church history” means, but it does include systematic and comprehensive tutelage on such arguments as how the Bible was compiled etc. Interestingly, I was already dabbling in that side of things before the Lord brought me to the pastor-teacher who trained me. That training has corrected and reinforced what I had previously learned by myself.

As for contradictions in the Bible, as I said, you never bothered to actually study it under a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher, so your claims of contradictions are wildly uneducated. They sound just like the claim of the man who insists that physics is full of contradictions because it teaches buoyancy and gravity at the same time.

As for stories not adding up, we’re on a thread where a wannabe pastor-teacher is butchering Bible passages to make wild and foolish claims about hell, so such accusations are a dime a dozen. Obviously, very much in the Bible makes very little sense without the tutelage of a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher, so any untaught Tom, Dick, and Harry could pretend either that they can make the “stories” say whatever they want them to say or that they don’t add up.

As for your claim about writing up on the errors in the Bible, I’m sure that you can -- you certainly wouldn’t be the first; many such books and articles exist (you may have heard of Bart Ehrman, you’ve got a long way to go to catch up to him in that) -- but whether or not such a work would contain truth is a different matter altogether.

As for the Bible being incomplete, you are certainly free to believe whatever you want. That you believe something does not mean that it is true.

Certainly, the Old Testament has no binding force on believers; certainly, many of the laws of Moses do not fit the Christian reality at all, but there is much that you said in this last paragraph of yours that betrays a wild ignorance of the Scriptures. Nonetheless, believe what you like. Whether that will give you a place with the Lord in the New Creation or give you a portion among those whom He condemns and rejects is all your problem, not mine. I’m only here to warn you, if you have any inclination at all to listen to me.

Like I said before if your hope and confidence is in man, your pastor and clergymen than you are a fool, who cannot think for himself.
Here is Jesus telling his disciples that what they have heard and seen that day was desired to be seen by clergymen, pastors and even righteous men but they were not privileged to.

Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


If you think what I wrote is not correct because your pastor has not taught it or it is not popular, than as I said before you are a fool.
Your trust and hope should be in God's word not men.


Romans 3:4
King James Version
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Ihedinobi3:
Very well then.

I’m not sure what you think “ancient and church history” means, but it does include systematic and comprehensive tutelage on such arguments as how the Bible was compiled etc. Interestingly, I was already dabbling in that side of things before the Lord brought me to the pastor-teacher who trained me. That training has corrected and reinforced what I had previously learned by myself.

As for contradictions in the Bible, as I said, you never bothered to actually study it under a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher, so your claims of contradictions are wildly uneducated. They sound just like the claim of the man who insists that physics is full of contradictions because it teaches buoyancy and gravity at the same time.

As for stories not adding up, we’re on a thread where a wannabe pastor-teacher is butchering Bible passages to make wild and foolish claims about hell, so such accusations are a dime a dozen. Obviously, very much in the Bible makes very little sense without the tutelage of a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher, so any untaught Tom, Dick, and Harry could pretend either that they can make the “stories” say whatever they want them to say or that they don’t add up.

As for your claim about writing up on the errors in the Bible, I’m sure that you can -- you certainly wouldn’t be the first; many such books and articles exist (you may have heard of Bart Ehrman, you’ve got a long way to go to catch up to him in that) -- but whether or not such a work would contain truth is a different matter altogether.

As for the Bible being incomplete, you are certainly free to believe whatever you want. That you believe something does not mean that it is true.

Certainly, the Old Testament has no binding force on believers; certainly, many of the laws of Moses do not fit the Christian reality at all, but there is much that you said in this last paragraph of yours that betrays a wild ignorance of the Scriptures. Nonetheless, believe what you like. Whether that will give you a place with the Lord in the New Creation or give you a portion among those whom He condemns and rejects is all your problem, not mine. I’m only here to warn you, if you have any inclination at all to listen to me.

An ignorant buffoon is calling me wannabe.
I bet you even your pastor friend, clergy and all the popes and top pastors in Nigeria do not know what I wrote in this article.
If your confidence is in man than you are a fool.

Why are you so scared of the truth, is it because it makes you feel inferior and redundant?

Like I challenged you before, point out my errors and explain why they are wrong, if you cannot do that, that means you have no knowledge and confidence in what you are saying.

So you better shut up before God who has laid this as a burden in my heart and life would strike you.

Just like in the days of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jesus, Elisha, Moses, Hosea, and many great men of God the word of God been taught, was corrupted with false teachings and doctrines and God raised this men to lead people back to the true word of God.

You are very ingnorant that's why you do not know that most Christian teachings we hear from our so called clergymen are corrupted.

Arrowss:
What about those that says they went to hellfire and came back, and see people burning when they went to hell?

It has been proven that those people were hallucinating.

nnamdiosu:
You say the devil is in hell, but the bible says he came to tempt Jesus.
Was it that they had a special holiday and he was allowed to come out.

Truth: the devil isnt in hell his final resting place will be the lake of fire.

You say no one is in hell yet bit Jesus say the the rich man opened his eyes after his death and was thirsty because he was in hell.

Truth: people are very much in hell right now.


You say the fires of hell will burn people to ashes.

Truth: the bible says all the dead whose name wasn't found in the book of life will be condemned to the lake of fire and be tormented for ever, day and night.
Spirit beings, which we will all become one day doesn't die in the actual sense of dying on earth.

Do you know that the bible says that the word if God cannot be broken?
That means all verses and sayings of the bible must agree one with another.

You cannot use only one Bible verse to conclude or make conclusions over a matter or subject.

The Devil and his Demons are not in Hell fire, they are reserved or kept in prison till the day of Judgement.

How can they be in Hell and still be reserved for judgement and Hell, does it make sense?

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

Even the Demons knew there will be a day for their punishment and destruction.

Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the TIME?


The story of the Richman and Lazarus is a parable not a true life event and should not be taken literally.
If it was true, will Lazarus enter the bossem (armpit of Abraham)?


No one who has died is in Heaven or Hell.
All the dead are in their graves waiting for the day of Judgement and resurrection.


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Splinz:
Thank you.

Do you mind to expound on how this will work out? You did a great job with the hell topic. I trust you can do it again.

Please prove it.

That's a lot of work but I will respond with soon.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Himself, the Word of God, is the Law and the Lawgiver. The New Covenant commandments are found detailed in the Gospels, in the Words/teachings and Life of Jesus Christ, not in the letters of John.

You want to know what it means to " believe". He gave you the command and it's application, written in His words, in the Gospels.
And even James reminds you of how easy it is when He tells you that even Demons believe.

You are confusing yourself.

Kobojunkie:
Again, believing in Jesus Christ only grants you eternal life I.e. Salvation( saved from the condemnation of sin which is death). It does not guarantee anyone heaven.

Read the Gospels to learn what Jesus said.

That's a lie, no unsaved sinner has eternal life, only the saved ,righteous will have eternal life.


https://www.nairaland.com/5520177/man-satan-immortality

Kobojunkie:
I believe the confusion is entirely yours. Yes, sinners who believe in Jesus Christ are gifted with eternal life. Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ tell you that you first need to stop being a sinner to be saved.

Open your eyes and read the Gospels as they are written so you can better comprehend what is in fact written and separate them from the lies you have believed instead. Jesus Christ came for the sinners...and it to them He offers salvation. His calls that they believe in Him and to all those who do, He gives eternal life which can in turn be spent either in Hell or in Heaven.

Like I asked you before define "what is the meaning of to believe in Jesus"?
Bible verse for you to ponder.

John 3:15. “Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”

FirstSon01:
not necessarily
i was one before so I know it in and out

You were one before, that makes my point valid.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ Never commanded anyone to "quit sin" before they believe in Him. So yes, He calls sinners to believe in Him in order be saved from the condemnation of sin which is death and be given eternal life instead.

There is no former or later to this as you claim. There is the commandments to believe in Him and receive eternal life - a commandment issued to those who are unbelievers( sinners who do not believe in Him) by the way. Once anyone obeys that one commandment to believe, one is gifted with eternal life and is considered saved.

All lies
What do you mean by believe in him(Jesus)?

My friend No one will enter Heaven becos he only believed in Jesus without works.

Kobojunkie:
Claimss? No!

Jesus Christ made it clear instead that those who will enter Hell for eternity are part of His sheep, I.e. they believe in Him/are saved and so have eternal life which they will instead spend in Hell for eternity.

You are really confused.
No where did God or Jesus promise sinners eternal life.
You are misquoting and confusing Bible verses.

How can one be saved and still go to Hell?
Was Jesus saving grace not sufficient?

Splinz:
Hello friend, longest time.

Your topic brought me here. It's quite an interesting one and indeed, you've done justice to it.

Your submissions are true; they can be proven from the Bible. Well done!

But...



As it concerns the above claims in bold. By making heaven, what do you mean exactly? Living or going to heaven to spend eternity? If yes, can you prove it from the Bible?

Good to see you bro.

Thank you for the compliments.
I understand your opinion on this subject having read your article on it, my position or opinion which is backed by the Bible is that Heaven will be the temporary home of the saved until after the 1000yrs, when God have created the new Heaven and Earth for the righteous or saved to dwell and inherit the Earth.

Ihedinobi3:
Well, you certainly have the advantage of me here. As long as this is a lying and insulting contest, I have no chance of winning.

As for the issue of discussing things multiple times, I wasn't speaking of repetition. I myself often repeat things I teach several times. It depends on the context, and as I said, I'm here to teach, so if a question is asked more than once, I am likely to provide the same answer more than once. The issue instead is of starting arguments over the same thing multiple times. That need to debate something so many times is often indicative of a deep-seated concern that it is false. Each time that you convince yourself that you won a debate, you hope to convince yourself by that presumed victory that you are actually right. That is why the Bible tells us to stay away from "divisive" or argumentative people after admonishing them twice (Titus 3:9-11).

If someone is confident that what they teach is the truth, one of the signs (although it is by no means a conclusive sign that it actually is the truth) is that they stop starting arguments over it. They will answer questions about what they believe when asked. They will independently develop teachings on it too if they are teachers by gifting, but they won't be hunting debates up and down to get embroiled in. That is all I was saying to you.

I really don't care what you teach. As I said, I have already satisfied myself that you don't care what the truth is, so I am not about to get mired in meaningless and abusive debates with you. Believe what you please and teach what you like. It is to the Lord that you will answer, not to me. My job is to teach the truth, to warn those who are risking God's Anger, to encourage those who are seeking or persevering in the truth, and to answer the questions of those who need help understanding biblical teachings, not to quarrel with anyone who disagrees with me or to make anyone believe what I teach.

Were is the evidence of the argument?
Do the two topics have the same meaning or teaching?

FirstSon01:
lol
not all atheists agree to the theory of evolution. it is what it is (a theory).


p.s. I'm sort of agnostic so I don't believe anything just like that.

Ok, but you seems to have grudges against christianity.

Kobojunkie:
Like I have said to you several times now....you have to read the Bible to learn to Truth of God.

There is no truth higher than the one I have shared on this Forum.

Kobojunkie:
That is what Jesus Christ, the New Covenant between God and man, taught His followers. His teaching are made known right there in the gospels, not the epistles.

I don't understand you.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ did not come for those who were already righteous in their ways.. He came for those who are sinners... And yes, His promise of salvation is for those who are sinners..

Let's no confuse ourselves, Yes Jesus came for everyone because we are all sinners, but everyone has that choice to choose and obey Jesus by quitting sin or to belief and still remain in sin, the former has eternal life as promised by Jesus why the latter do not have eternal life but will receive damanation in Hell.

Kobojunkie:
The commandments of Jesus Christ are recorded in the gospels. You don't need to quote from the letters of Paul or John in this and I don't see the relevance of the second verse here either.

Those bible are evident that whosoever claims to believe in jesus but does not obey his commandments is destined for Hell.

Kobojunkie:
It is right there in the gospels for those who accept Him.

By the way, according to Jesus Christ, Judgement will not take place until after He returns. So stop brandishing it as if a weapon for you to use against others.

Please be specific and show me were it is written bin the Bible.

I did not threaten you I only warned you of the consequences of one misinterpretation God's word.

Ihedinobi3:
Well, you certainly have the advantage of me here. As long as this is a lying and insulting contest, I have no chance of winning.

As for the issue of discussing things multiple times, I wasn't speaking of repetition. I myself often repeat things I teach several times. It depends on the context, and as I said, I'm here to teach, so if a question is asked more than once, I am likely to provide the same answer more than once. The issue instead is of starting arguments over the same thing multiple times. That need to debate something so many times is often indicative of a deep-seated concern that it is false. Each time that you convince yourself that you won a debate, you hope to convince yourself by that presumed victory that you are actually right. That is why the Bible tells us to stay away from "divisive" or argumentative people after admonishing them twice (Titus 3:9-11).

If someone is confident that what they teach is the truth, one of the signs (although it is by no means a conclusive sign that it actually is the truth) is that they stop starting arguments over it. They will answer questions about what they believe when asked. They will independently develop teachings on it too if they are teachers by gifting, but they won't be hunting debates up and down to get embroiled in. That is all I was saying to you.

I really don't care what you teach. As I said, I have already satisfied myself that you don't care what the truth is, so I am not about to get mired in meaningless and abusive debates with you. Believe what you please and teach what you like. It is to the Lord that you will answer, not to me. My job is to teach the truth, to warn those who are risking God's Anger, to encourage those who are seeking or persevering in the truth, and to answer the questions of those who need help understanding biblical teachings, not to quarrel with anyone who disagrees with me or to make anyone believe what I teach.

You are confused ,
If that is the case then Jesus would not have spent his entire life on Earth telling people to repent and turn to God, then men like Elijah,Moses,John the Baptist, Amos,Isaiah,Elisha,Hosea, e.t.c would not have repeatedly warned people to turn away from sin and there false doctrine and teachings.

You are an agent of distraction and its obvious your mission is to keep people in darkness.

Like I said before show me were I might be wrong and the correct answer.

If you cannot do that, then you are nothing more but an angel of darkness.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Are you sure you obey the above verse, if you do you will not be so ignorant and proud, you will humble yourself and allow God to speak to you.
You rather remain empty and boastful than to humble yourself.

Ihedinobi3:
https://www.nairaland.com/post/84120168

https://www.nairaland.com/post/84187549



As for this, I really don't understand anyone who thinks that Nairaland is the place to win or lose debates. Who decides who has won and who has lost. You? Me? The audience? This is not Debate Club. I just come here to teach what I know to anyone who wants to hear me. It's not my problem if what I have to say is rejected. I don't control people's free will.

So, you can wallow in your bloated sense of meaningless victory. The trouble that you have to deal with is what is coming to you if you are actually teaching lies on this platform and causing children of God to stumble. Everyone of us who dares to speak in God's Name should be careful about that.



My point is simply that you are spending a lot of energy on things that you want to sound like you're absolutely sure about. No one does that if they actually think that they are right.

Now, I must bid you good night. I really have no interest in discussing with you.

You are on an errand to confuse and keep people in bondage that's your work, am sure of that.
No one who knows his bible very well will ever get offended by my articles.
You are only doing your bidding.