₦airaland Forum

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES
2 ESDRAS 14 VS 35 For after death shall the judgment come, when we shall live again: and then shall the names of the righteous be manifest, and the works of the ungodly shall be declared.

which one com be ezdras again na? Pls explain in detail, stop giving us vague explanations,

Enigma: Did someone hijack your user name (here or or on another thread)?

Otherwise how do you move from being a "freethinker" (possibly meaning atheist?) saying Jesus is fictional in the link below to calling Jesus "lord" on this thread?

https://www.nairaland.com/1240536/ugly-truth-jesus

lol, I'm a christian for today,

obadiah777: NO POINT RIDING ON IF YOU ARE A SCOFFER. SCRIPTURE SAY DO NOT CAST PEARLS BEFORE SWINES. LOOK AT THE VERSES AND TELL ME IF I AM FULL OF CRAP OR IF YOU BELIEVE.

na wa, e no get wetin we no go see for nairaland, my friend, u are making spurious claims, and u don't have anything to back what u're saying, you are confusing yourself, (no offence intended)

you're just trying to link things that don't make sense, no sensible christian will agree with u, even adherents of other religions who support reincarnation can't even give sound arguments to back their claims, not to talk about u who's supporting reincarnation with the bible, the bible's stance on the after life is clear, after death comes judgment,

stop trying to link vague scriptures with reincarnation, the bible does not support reincarnation, plain and simple,

musKeeto:
you must be having a laugh....

lol, bros no be small laff I dey laff since,

obadiah777: LMAO. GOSHEN BRINGING IN HERESIES. HE LEADING PEOPLE RIGHT INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. GOSHEN YOUR SOUL IS REQUIRED FOR BRINGING IN HERESIES

lol, no be laffin mata ooo, this is serious, his teachings are becoming more strange everyday, and people could be easily misled if it's not handled properly.

obadiah777: ISAIAH 14 VS 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

THERE IS A DEEPER EXPLANATION TO THAT VERSE BUT I TEND NOT TO DISCUSS REINCARNATION WITH 'NIGERIANS'.

pls indulge me pls I'm open minded, I would love to hear your views on re-incarnation, but I have to ask are u a christian? And if u are why do u believe in re-incarnation? Cos the bible doesn't support reincarnation,

obadiah777: JOHN 9 VS 2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

so you're saying that the biblical God who is supposed to be just is punishing people for the sins of their parents? Are u now saying that cos if maybe your father is a ritualist but u're a christian God will send u to hell for the sins of your father?

Smoking marijuana is not a sin, although as an agnostic I don't believe in the concept of sin, but speaking from a medical perspective, there's no apparent relation to indian hemp with any terminal illness and it's been prescribed to patients with cancer and other chronic illnesses, but everything has to be in moderation, but the good thing about indian hemp is u can't overdose on it, but just try to moderate your smoking and smoke responsibly, e beta pass cigarette,

I had to comment on this thread, @goshen360, I respect u as an individual and as somebody who teaches well, but be warned do not go about teaching false doctrines to gullible christians on nairaland, lest the wrath of God fall on u,

Our lord jesus said that it's easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one letter of the law to become invalid,luke 16 v 17, mathew 5 v 18-19, and also apostle paul told us in 2 timothy 3 v 16, that all scripture is inspired by God, so I don't see what all the fuss is about, @goshen the other day you said sex between two unmarried people who are engaged is not a sin, now u have come again, pls be careful of what u teach, cos on the last day heretics would be thrown into the lake of fire,

obadiah777: BEING MENTALLY CHALLENGED WAS JUDGEMENT HANDED OUT TO THEM

see answer, lol, instead of u to say u don't know the answer u're giving us an ignorant answer, @op, good question, don't let them deceive u with ignorant answers oo, they should give u good answers with sound analysis,

hisblud: if Jesus was really mythical figure, a figment of some men imagination, then this people should have known they believed in a mythical figure, and they lived some hundred years from the time our Beloved Jesus walked on earth. Except you want to prove this people never existed

some of these men, were the people who wrote the holy book u guys think was inspired by God, some of the early christian writers were responsible for compiling the new testament and also the new testament apocryphal,

and these were the same men who used these writings to propagate the fear of eternal condemnation, using it to control the feeble minded masses, and the culture is still being practiced today, I pity most christians,

sam_ibk: I ve read all you guys have said and i need to tell you free thinkers that you are not thinking at all... You just went to the internet read some post by some people who just want to make scene. I good thinker will have his own reference from himself majorly

there's no way anybody arrives at a certain truth in his or her life without being influenced by certain people or certain events,

I presume u're a christian, and there are two possibilities for u being a christian, one is your geographical disposition, (you live in a christian dominated area,) and the other possibility is that you were born into a christian home,

and I can confidently say that u've never practiced anyother religion other than christianity, so my good mann, put urself for one corner,

I'm sorry I've not been able to respond to these arguments sooner, I've been busy, I see where u guys are coming from and I think I know where u guys are heading to,

the reason I provided links was so that the thread wouldn't be too long and boring, but maybe I wasn't too concise with my compositions, I've been advised to let sleeping dogs lie and allow u guys wallow in ur belief, hoping to see people like myself and muskeeto in hell, but I assure u all, we (freethinkers) will surely have the last laugh,

Hmmmmm, have u guys ran away? Ihedinobi, image123, hisblud, where are u guys?

This country tire me jare, I dey find who I won dash my citizenship to, any body interested?

Ihedinobi: Name the historians that 'disregarded' Josephus's works and provide excerpts of their theses debunking his writings.

Who accepts the claim that Josephus was a creation of the early church? Where did they say that they did?



Name some of the 'Bible scholars' that hold such a view and cite where they denounced the other three Gospels as copies of the Gospel of Mark.

Show how the Gospel of Mark holds Jesus as something less than the Messiah, not least how it holds that Jesus didn't think He was good.

Finally, how do the Gospels contradict each other in their accounts of Jesus's birth?



Show these similarities. What deities? And how are they similar to Jesus? And how do such similarities raise questions about the authenticity of the historical Jesus?



How do you know what God or the son of God would support or not support?



What if the Death of Jesus somehow only took away the pretence in man and forced evil to show its face so that it can be destroyed?



What point did you intend to make mentioning science?

What pain has Jesus caused?

How did you establish that Jesus was a mythical character?

Do you realize that it is a conteadiction to say that a mythical character did this or that or that something could be attributed to it?

Some of the above questions have been asked in my responses to your claims above, so you need not answer them again here.



We'll worry about the links later after you have shown what kind of grasp you have on the issues you've raised.

1) Well there are lots of christian scholars who have come out openly to debunk the writings of josephus, that is the TF, (testimonioum flavius) many of these christian writers believe that eusebius who was an early christian father, interpolated the writings of flavius josephus, or was infact flavius josephus, and they give good reasons for disproving it, you can get detailed explanation from this link,
www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

2) If you would please indulge me by reading the links provided below u'll sEe where it is ascertained that the gospel of mark is the original of the synoptic gospels,
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel

3) Mark 10 v 18, jesus clearly states that he was not Good that only one could be good and that one was God.

4, It's obvious that the biblical God would support justice, cos it is widely written in the bible that he is a God of justice, that would hold each man accountable for his sins, and that the father shall not bear the sins of the children, likewise the children bearing the sins of their father,

5, Science was frowned upon by the church and it is still frowned upon today, the church did a lot to curb the growth of science, chemist were tagged sorcerers in tha dark ages, and even the study of the human anatomy was considered to be dark magic, birth control is frowned upon by the church, etc, na long story,

6, Jesus christ has caused a lot of pain, because ever since his purported coming to earth man has not known peace, the world has seen more violence and more homes scattered, over a 100 million people were killed in the dark ages all in the name of jesus, these innocent souls were tagged pagans and such were not worthy to live,

Before jesus came there was war, there was starvation and there were illnesses, and after he came and left these things have steadily been on the rise, so it begs the question what gain has the birth and death of jesus had on mankind?

7) My establishment of jesus been mythical stemmed from the lack of evidence to prove his existence, there's no concrete shred of evidence that supports his birth and death, the only documents that could be said to be evidence are been questioned about their authenticity, at least we have proof that abraham lincoln, alexander the great, existed cos there's ample proof, but in the case of jesus we have zilch evidence for his existence.

Of course it is contradictory to attribute great feats to a mythical figure, but I have done nothing of such, I only made references to your bible to try to show u the obvious errancies there.

Enigma: From here https://www.nairaland.com/901638/why-many-black-people-including/2#10889512

it's impossible my mann, it's just like sAying u can have sex wit two women at the same time wit the same pen.is,

Ihedinobi: Lol. Wetin conscience de worry you for, ehn, my guy?



Is that so? What is this problem with faith?



Lol. Are you implying that critical thinking and believing are mutually exclusive?



I'm still under the impression that you started this thread to show everyone these obvious flaws. Why aren't we seeing them yet?



I don't think you mean to point the above out as a flaw that the Gospel of Christ has, or do you? It would be hilarious if you do.

Well, there is only one truth, man. It can't be every religion, it can't be more than one religion or one philosophy. So just as you're asking me 'what if you're wrong?' you should ask yourself 'what if I'm wrong?'



Well, when you started making this excuse after I asked you to prove your claims, I told you that it was too early to make excuses. Do you see that instead of proving what you claimed, you have continued to make rather lame excuses to avoid showing why you believe (note that interesting word, I italicised it just for how interesting it is) your claims to be true?

Well, here you are, still with the same lame excuse.

I didn't ask you to make the claims you did, I shouldn't need to ask you to defend them. But, I respond just as you wanted some Christian to, and you say that you will not produce proof for your claims because I won't convert upon seeing it? The joke's not on me, my friend.

You make claims, you prove it. Don't makr excuses. If you can prove it and I fail to convert, I show myself by that failure to be truly brainwashed and deluded. Then the joke will be on me.



Well, prove it by producing some actual strong facts and evidence.



I said that? Where?



Well, I'd like you to also reason critically, not just freely o, what if you are wrong?

lol, my good man, you would make a very good freethinker, and I've set it as one of my goals to convert u to freethinking, na me and you for nairaland, u musto turn to freethinker, I'm going to answer all your questions, and I won't leave anyone unanswered,

SREPC0214: 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

dis is another problem with christianity, only jesus talk say he com die for sinners, only him go still dey talk say he don blind sinners eyes and harden their hearts lest they be converted and he go com heal them, that's really confusing.

Ihedinobi: Lol. I was sure it was you, not the Bible, who started this thread with your incredible claims. It's only fair that you substantiate your claims before asking any responder to prove anything.

You know, you are not the first of your kind around here. And quite disappointingly, although not quite surprisingly, you are just as the others, in fact, somewhat worse than some of them.

Y'all show up, make silly claims that you have little hope of substantiating beyond sending responders to links which make the same spurious claims with no effort to prove them and claim to be intellectually liberated because you swallowed the whole thing without question and demand that we do the same.

When we refuse, you try to shift responsibility for your arguments on to us. You're so predictable.

Well, like I said, the peculiar thing about critical thinking is that it examines critically every case before it before buying it. Freethinkers, on the other hand, appear too intellectually lazy to really consider why they believe what they do or why they reject what they reject.

I had to respond to this, (so that conscience no go worry me) yeah, you're an example of the problem with faith, and don't give me that critical thinking story, you're a believer,

and if you reason critically about your beliefs you'll see the obvious flaws in them, you claim your God/son is the original among all the GOD/sons, but have u ever reasoned what if u could be wrong? What if budha is the real God/son, the same conviction you have about your God/son is the same or even stronger conviction adherents of other religions have about their God/sons,

There's absolutely nothing I'll say to u that'll make u change your perspective about your beliefs, even in the presence of strong facts and evidence, so that's why I've not bothered to answer your questions, cos u said they've been answered on a previous post, BUT one thing I would like you to reason CRITICALLY, is what if you're wrong? What if,

Ihedinobi: My friend, you actually have no right to demand proof from anyone until you have provided proof for the claims in your op.

But then, I've never been very impressed with the "freethinker's" grasp of logical reasoning.

lol, I have every right to demand historical proof of jesus, cos the bible is making extraordinary claims and such should expect extraordinary scrutiny, and asking u prove the historical jesus is one of them.

Image123: i said UNknown. Please re-read and comprehend. You lie about the calendar, so you see no need to change a 'lie'?

the catholic church still has a strong influence on the world whether u chose to believe it or not, but that's not the issue at stake here, the calender could be changed in the future, I'm not the one to decide what calender the world should be using, and hope u know that in some eastern countries they use the lunar calenders,

Ihedinobi: So you believe that there is no constant reality but instead that we live in a kaleidoscope of illusions.

there are constant realities no doubt, but we live in an ever changing world and as humans we are expected to adapt to these changes, if u're all about being constant, why don't u ride around on horses or camels? Why use cars?

hisblud: To the bolded, i once did a search on her and what i read about her was not good and if "ABOUT YOU" is not good, then surely what you bring out might be false as well. on Richard Dawkins, the much i know about him is that he is as fanatical as any other religious person but his is based on his atheistic view. well i wouldn't want to digress from the topic at hand, i would be glad if you can address the points ihedinobi raised earlier...

one method people use in trying to cover up the truth is discrediting the messenger of truth, archaya s might be a drunk or junkie (I'm not saying she is) but does that make the message she is preaching false? By discrediting the messenger you are making the message more interesting, there's nobody who does'nt have detractors,

I believe u read the "Not too good" things about archaya cos that was what u wanted to find, to discredit her work, she is a fine researcher end of story, her research speaks for it's self,

Richard dawkins is fanatical I agree wit u, but his works are eye opening to some certain stage. And I'm doing my best to answer iheniodo.

Image123: that's the very point. It doesn't matter if Jesus came before or after. What matters is that He is the original.

lol, it does my friend it does, if he came after then u can not say he is the original, the claim of jesus being the original of these deities is baseless,

Image123: That your today's date says 2013 after death is enough evidence, go figure. So if an historian in Rome doesn't mention a name of a man popular in Galilee(facially unknown by Herod, Pilate and the Sanhedrin), then the man never existed qed?

lol, na really facially known by herod and pilate, do u have any of herod's writings that he acknowledged knowing jesus? The reason we're using the gregorian calender is cos of the catholics church hold on the world at a certain time, and since then there has been no need to change it,

Alwaystrue: @Image,
Pls I have a question for you at the Abraham father of Christians thread. Thx

lol, e no get wetin person no go see for nairaland, lol, u dey pursue the guy from thread to thread? Lol,

Image123: Kindly link some other person to it then instead of throwing words in the air. Jesus was and is the only relevant and accurate link and is spot on specific from birth to death.
i asked about counterfeit notes but you fellows dodged. I'll ask yet another. If a song or a film is pirated, stolen and sold before release. Are the pirated copies original simply because they were in the black market before the real/original?

of course not, but in the case of the birth of these deities do u have any proof that the story of jesus came first before theirs?

onyfrank: freethinker, hu is dr ray hagin? What makes u think his youtube stuff is true?
Dnt b deceived.
There is one experiment i watched on youtube, i decided to carry it out bt its fake or sumtn, i dnt knw.
Its beta u accept wat u personally realized on urself than wat others said, as far as supernatural is concern

true story mann, true story, nice

Bidam: Actually there are archaeological evidences, though Jewish archaeological evidence of the entire period is rather sparse. There are the remains of large and extensive Roman cities, and adequate inscriptions of leaders, including Herod, Pilate and Festus. There are also influential Jews such as Caiaphas, but almost nothing can be found recording the lives of ordinary individuals. And remember that in A.D. 70 Jerusalem was totally destroyed by Titus. What may still exist is buried under the thriving modern city. Certainly the odds are against an artifact's survival.

The scarcity of archaeological artifacts can be contrasted, however, with the wealth of historical evidence for Christ. Soon the apostles had written letters detailing Christ's life and teachings, to be followed by the writings of Paul all widely copied and circulated, within the lifetime of eyewitnesses. The Roman historian Josephus mentioned Christ several times while relating noteworthy civic events, including the execution of one named "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ/Messiah" referring evidently to Jesus' brother James, leader of the early church and author of the New Testament book bearing his name.

The new artifact is an ossuary, a medium-sized box in which human bones were placed for permanent burial after the flesh had all decayed away. This practice was employed for only a brief period of time from about B.C. 20 to A.D. 70. The box is made of a soft, chalky, limestone, common to the area. The contents have long since vanished.

I believe you've read lots of novels, in Shakespeare's books he makes references to places like london, venice, france and caLls names of popular rulers at that time, but does this makes the stories of Shakespeare true? No, cos it's fiction.

Apart from josephus, all contemporary writers at that time are quiet on the historical jesus, even philo a popular roman writer who wrote poems and books at the supposed time jesus entered jerusalem was quiet about jesus, the reason is obvious, cos there was no jesus in his time, and by the way jesus was a popular name at that time, yeshua/joshoua was and is still a popular hebrew name.

Were the isrealites in egypt? No, was solomon the wisest king at a time in the history of the world? There is no evidence to surport that claim, the bible makes a lot of claims that can not be verified, and thus it makes the bible nothing more than a Glorified story book.

Ihedinobi: Well, the birth of Christ, the manner of it, was already known by prophecy long before then.

well that's one of the problems with biblical prophecies, the prophecies in the bible are so vague that anything could be linked with anything to arrive at a conclusion,

the prophecies of Isiah were referring to a man, not a son of God, the prophesy was referring to someone who would literally rule the jews as their king and bring terror on the enemies of isreal.

And since the credibility of the bible is at stake, these prophecies will not be given much tought to, cos there's no proof that these claims were authentic, the bible is good story book, and it should remain as such.

Ihedinobi: Sounds to me like you're saying that "freethinkers" know nothing for sure and go with whatever's trending at any moment. That's interesting.

And before you try to make a song out of evidence, man, evidence must mean something to matter. A freethinker who says he follows evidence would be a rather curious fellow if he is found believing one thing today because evidence backs it and then believing the opposite tomorrow because new evidence backs it.

There must be something immutable that evidence hinges on to make any kind of sense and encourage confidence. What does the freethinker's erratic evidence hinge on?

And please, try to stop typing like this. It's wearying to the eyes. I might not read it next time.

it takes a man with a big heart to see that he is wrong and accept that he is wrong, freethinkers have a big heart, freethinkers don't go with the trend, but cos the most constant thing in life is said to be change, freehinkers take to change when it is necessary.

Nothing in this life can be 100% that's why in science no matter how accurate your result is it's value is set at 99.9%, imagine a doctor who was trained at a time when chloroquine was used in the treatment of malaria, and up till now with the invention of stronger and more effective drugs, still believe that chloroquine is still the best drug to treat malaria, that doctor is not competent,

We are in an ever changing world and we ought to accept these changes, no one man or no one book should claim to hold all the answers to the questions about life, the bible is a book that claims it is extraordinary and such it should be given extraordinary scrutiny.