urahara:


Are u 4 real

Yes I am.

Seun:

Jesus did not beat up witches, but he is said to have whipped merchants in the temple, so he was not totally against whipping people.

.
Kindly provide the chapter and verse of the Bible where it was recorded that Jesus whipped merchants.

hahn:


Your chats are boring bro

And it is ironic how you keep placing your confusion on me

Bye

Good night once again.

hahn:


Yawns

Well, that's an easy escape. Have a lovely night.

frank317:

Well my mission was to show u why it makes no sense to me... I have clearly done that and you have failed to make it make sense to me, infact you have made it worst... like a young girl goes through pain of being molested for his pleasure? WTF

My mission is to show that you're trying to make nonsense out of sense, and it's glaring to the readers.

frank317:

I dont understand... did u even read my response? let me post it again...
U accept that God was kind enough not to create us like robot... yet u compare us with robotic creatures like TV or Guns... if God created humans with ability to do things on their own... he should have taken care of the consequences of this free will before embarking on this project which had led man to making nonsense of his plans.

The WHY question will never end. He's God and he decided to create man with the ability to choose because that's what he wants. You can decide to blame him for everything thereafter.

frank317:

why in the world are u mentioning gun powder? I said dont compare man with inanimate objects like gun... a gun creator cannot be responsible for what another man does with his gun... the only time he can be responsible is if the he created a gun with a life of its own.

If you don't think the Chinese guys that invented gunpowder (an inanimate item with no will) are worthy to be sued, then why do you think God that made man (a being that can make decisions without coordination from the creator or any other being) should be blamed for what that creature does.

A father can be blamed if his 2yr old child kills someone. Why? The child cannot be said to be responsible for its actions yet.
But if a 30yr old man murders a fellow man and you're saying the Father should be blamed, then I can't help you.

frank317:

This is an off response, please refer to response above for clearance. and stop comapring man with inanimate objects like Guns... are u not saying that God did not create us like robots? why use creators of robotic creatures to compare with God who didnt create robotic objects.

That's the easiest way for me to help you understand, but seems you're not trying to understand.

frank317:

ok... for you your son can believe his grand father is actually God
for me if my son believes that, i will question his sanity

Sure, you're free.

frank317:

Tell me something... you are higher, and u are now God and can see like him... smh, yet u have been giving me ridiculous responses all day. Oga, i will pass.

English seems to be a major barrier here. The discussion is about God. When did it become about me?

frank317:

Because its just a folktale

frank317:

lol... cares for them indeed. When does he really care, when he is watching them suffer for his pleasure? Now he has brought in satan, the imaginary one who takes the blame.

Yes, the imaginary one who's messing with your thinking.

frank317:

Are u not the one who said your God permitted him to do evil? how can u say mankind is in agreement with satan, a being that had the guts to fight ur so call almighty God? I wish you the best in ur battle with him.

You just said he's an imaginary creature, so this point needn't follow.

frank317:

Oga, Your God gave us free will to chose evil or good... he is responsible for giving us choice... even before giving he determined the kind of choice we will have...

You've been swinging back and forth all day.

frank317:

as a matter of fact Seun cant be responsible for the post here... i am.

Why? Because you're inanimate, right? Because there's no mod to hide or delete your post, right?

frank317:

the site is an inanimate creation by seun, I am a living being created by your God and given life.. stop comparing living things with animate objects. You God according to u gave me life. he is responsible to an extent of what i do.

Let me just make it clear, you're responsible for what you do. That's why the Police won't look for God to arrest whrn you murder someone tomorrow.

frank317:

you seem not to know what u are actually saying.
satan disorganized the pan of an all knowing God? Satan is taking the blame for an all knowing Gods failure?
I thought it was your God that permitted it?

I'm beginning to think you don't understand English well enough (no insult intended please) or maybe you don't read and understand my post before you comment. Where did you read that I said Satan disorganised the plan of God.

frank317:

oga chose one...
did God permit everything? Yes. Nothing happens without his knowledge.
Did satan disorganize his plan? No. Read my last reply again
Did he foreknew everything? Yes, He's omniscient
Did he fail No, things are going just as he foreknew

remember, all four cannot go together.

frank317:

off point response, try again.The answer does not correlate with my post.

There you go, cherry picking the answers that suite you and discarding the ones you can't argue.

frank317:

lol.. it seems you are loosing concentration...

ur responses have got nothing to do with my posts.. pls follow the conversation. This ur response, I dont even understand, sure u are not talking to another person?

You're almost confirming my suspicion as to your comprehension of my English.

frank317:

he is not any king of any universe, you can change that, u have to deal with it.

Unfortunately, you didn't make Him King and you can't dethrone Him.

frank317:

I am not responding to this point again until you show me any [b]historical document[/b]that correlates with Lucifer fighting with yaw-eh as shown in the bible

You're asking for an historical document to explain what happened in another realm, is that it? Historical documents contain events in human history that can be traced to a physical location and time.

frank317:

of course... thats what happens when foreknowledge is useless

Foreknowledge is useless to you because you're not omnipotent. He's both omniscient and omnipotent.

frank317:

I mean any child... does it have to be a child u know before u understand?

The 'child' doesn't make the illustration fit. I've used the example of a child correctly up there. Go back and check. When did it become easy for you to equate a child to an adult as regards decision making?

hahn:


The same point you decided to bring a toothbrush maker into the discussion

Sorry, I can't help you follow a conversation.

JackBizzle:
Been reading this exchange.

Bolaji21, please learn to reflect upon what you read and write.


You wrote that soeme nigerian tribes believe that their forefathers fell from the sky. It is laughable abi?

But you are ready to believe that an all mighty god up in the sky could not find a sensible way to forgive sins other than sending his Jewish son to commit suicide.


But you are ready to believe the following in the religious books- talking snakes, talking donkeys, zombies, ressurection from the dead etc

Whether it is laughable or not is dependent on you. I used it as an example to make a point that what a human choose to believe is not reflective of his sanity. Not as pun.

Jephz:
thank God I'm on IT ....when I finish my IT ... I'll meet my senior colleagues in final year

And you'll wait for them to finish final year before you enter final year.

hahn:


Just as it is highly certain your god is not the only one who created humans?

You see, you've missed the point. We're on the creation/making of trouble/disaster from the Bible verse you quoted.
Let me refresh your memory.

You brought this verse of the Bible.

hahn:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Then I helped you understand it

bolaji21:
I make toothbrush is different from I am responsible for all toothbrushes in your home

You then asked

hahn:
But when I say I make toothbrushes, I know what a toothbrush will do tomorrow before it even does it then I should be held responsible when someone gets a teeth infection from using my toothbrush, right?

To which I replied

bolaji21:
Yes, if it was my toothbrush that was used. In this case, it's highly uncertain cos I'm not the only maker of toothbrush.

Now, at what point did the creation of humans enter this?

hahn:


But when I say I make toothbrushes, I know what a toothbrush will do tomorrow before it even does it then I should be held responsible when someone gets a teeth infection from using my toothbrush, right?

Yes, if it was my toothbrush that was used. In this case, it's highly uncertain cos I'm not the only maker of toothbrush.

frank317:

I have never argued that man is not responsible for his actions... I am aware of that even without believing in any God. I am trying to let you know that bringing God into the picture makes is all complex. Dont ever compare man creating inanimate objects with God creating humans with emotions.

God created man and mankind is responsible for the state of the world. If it's comforting for you to blame God for every evil, I won't try to change you.

frank317:

U accept that God was kind enough not to create us like robot... yet u compare us with robotic creatures like TV or Guns... if God created humans with ability to do things on their own... he should have taken care of the consequences of this free will before embarking on this project which had led man to making nonsense of his plans.

You mean like making sure there are no raw materials to make gun powder, right?

frank317:

Trust me if the man that created guns had the ability to create life into guns, the he also shares responsibility for what the gun he gave live does.

That's weird. I never got the news that the Chinese that invented gunpowder have been sued to court for causing world War 1&2.

frank317:

I have shown you why i think your creations stories are ridiculous... telling me it is the truth is inconsequential to me.

No you haven't. Please do.

frank317:

If ridiculous meaningless stories are truth to you... Then I think your sanity needs to be questioned (no insult intended)

Choosing what and what not believe has nothing has to do with sanity, my brother. Some parts of the Southwest here still believe their forefather fell from the sky with chains.

frank317:

Now you are saying he foreplanned? was destroying man in Noah's time a foreplan?
Well, if he foreplanned, the world I am seeing today, does not look like any almighty foreplanned anything good. all i see is random coincidence.

The higher you are, the better you see. You are not God, so you can't see like Him.

frank317:

Leave revelation which you cant even be sure of..

Why should we?

frank317:

look around you... different religions, different christian doctrines, child abuse, pain... are they sign of foreplan by almighty creator... again, if he planned well, there wouldnt be need to wait for revelation... people dies everyday for Christ sake, isnt revelation meaningless to them?

You don't bear these people in mind as much as their creator do. And he didn't put them in that state, Satan and mankind in agreement are the cause. You don't need to drag God into it just to suite yourself.

frank317:

yes, especially when he plans not to take responsibility for the choice he gave us.
[/b]
Seun is responsible for your posts here, right?


[quote author=frank317 post=59936741]
ok fair enough, but i am yet to relate with this.

Read it again.

frank317:

lol... for his pleasure u said... death, pain, hell, his disorganized plan... all for his pleasure.

His plan is disorganised even to Satan himself
That's why he always walk right into His majesty's plan over and over again.

frank317:

Oga please go get your facts right. You cannot be blowing hot and cold at the same time. if i may ask, whats ur idea for God's pleasure? destroying of millions in Noah's time? is that pleasure?

You forgotten Satan is in the equation.

frank317:

Isnt that what we are saying, we were created to be man without our choice... we dont even have the choice of the family we were born into. Well, if I there was a supersonic man in existence somewhere.. i would choose that if I have a choice.

You were to be created first and asked which family you want to be born through, then you're recreated into that family. Is that what you're suggesting?

frank317:

then he should stop acting all surprised and stop expecting to act in another way when he knows they will act in the other way.

He's the King of the Universe. You can't change that, you have to deal with it.

frank317:

This is a matter of opinion. The bible is not a historical book... most of the events therein are just magical stories that are not documented anywhere else. Please if you have other historical books that correlates with the bible or that correlates with Angels fighting war with God in hevean, feel free to share them.

That's not a valid point. The Bible has been proven several times to be accurate. I guess you've not gone far enough in atheism to discover that.

frank317:

permitting devil to rebel against him and figthing him in return? permitting sin to full the world then destroying man afterall? are u even listening to yourself?
well, what am I even saying, are u not the one who said its all for his pleasure?

.. and ensuring justice is served. You forgot to add.

frank317:

Choose wisely and go after going by your recommendation to arrive at an unknown outcome? I guess in this case his had no foreknowldge of what his action might be right

Don't forget, Omniscient.

frank317:

I guess once Jesus Died God foreknowing abilities stopped working? How did he even arrive at sending Jesus to die with all the forknowledge he had... where did it fail him that he had to make things better?
how can he be repairing things he watched spoiling?

Man kept creating a mess for his creator to keep cleaning up. I think that's fair enough by the creator.

frank317:

so to you the child's freedom is better than his protection? You'd rather watch your child destroy himself with freedom than take away his freedom and protect me. Now isnt this where your God is getting it wrong?

Who's the child in this your example?

frank317:


He watches a little girl get molested and says... "If I protect her, that mean I have taken away her freedom.., no, let her have her freedom and suffer."
Oga, enjoy in worshiping a monster.

Your logic is not working here. Who's the little child in this your example?

hahn:


Lol. This your interpretation no be here. NO wonder there are over 30,000 denominations of your religion. Y'all are confused

It's not interpretation like you mean it, the English is glaring. If you're interested, you can check all the available translations online and even the Greek version. This doesn't require any exegesis for you figure out if you want to. You brought the scripture yourself. I make toothbrush is different from I am responsible for all toothbrushes in your home. Is it that hard to figure out?


@bolded, is that your new location to dodge?

hopefulLandlord:

Hahahahahahahahaha, this is funny

I'm glad to have made you laugh.

hopefulLandlord:

to do what? I say your god idea doesn't make sense! and you interpreted it as me wishing it away lol "average thinker" Indeed

There's freedom to laugh if that's the best way to dodge.

hopefulLandlord:

my point is that people who criticise your god idea don't necessarily hate it!, you've not challenged this and you're only committing the fallacy of "proof by assertion" and equivocating

My point is that why do people spend the whole of their time online trying to prove the non-existent of a God that doesn't exist?

Your philosophical classification of this doesn't fit and you're the one that hasn't been consistent in your argument.
Mind you, check our previous posts here and bring out where I asserted HATE. Also, this is the first time you're stating your point clearly.

hahn:


It is real to you, is it not? This situation is similar to when you are chatting with a kid about the toothfairy. You know it is not real but still tell the kid that it will come and put money under his/her pillow even when you know you are the one who will do it.

I don't know how to help you bro. Who's the kid in the above? You?

hahn:

Look. Read carefully

I KNOW your god does not exist but since we are discussing and you actually believe that it does I have to discuss like it exists. Understand?

Okay

hahn:

So, now is your god responsible for the evil that happens on earth or not?

He's not responsible for all.

hahn:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

This proves he's God. Let me give you that verse in a simpler English.

(EasyEnglish) I made the light and I *created the dark. I cause people to do well and I *create trouble. I am the *LORD. I do all those things.’
Does that mean He's behind every trouble? No. There's a difference between "I create trouble" and "I'm behind every trouble".

hopefulLandlord:


I mock the "idea", you're free to judge my emotions anyhow you like

Good, now you admit that your emotions are involved. That's settled.

hopefulLandlord:

YOU claimed to know what the viewers are thinking and I'm challenging you on how you "know", refer to the post and see

I don't know how to help you figure that out. But it's not hard for an average thinker that has gone through your previous posts.

hopefulLandlord:

and No! my intention is never mere sarcasm but if you can't stand a mix of sarcasm and serious points in posts then I'll stop quoting you

Well, you've not raised any valid point since. You're just merigorounding.

hahn:


First of all you cannot be angry at something that doesn't exist.

I'll leave that to the readers to decide.

hahn:

Secondly, I cannot be angrier than something that proposes to burn billions of people in hell while it chills in paradise

You seem confused. You just claimed it's impossible to get angry at something non-existent. Now you're saying you're not as angry as the non-existent God.

hahn:

Really? Tell me something



No. YOur god is to blame because it sat back and watched millions of people die despite it's foreknowledge and did nothing to save them. What a Arrow!

And your god has always been known to do nothing about it

A non-existent God should have helped the world War. You need to take a stand. Are you confused about the non-existent God or confused as to why the existent God didn't intervene in world War 1&2. Cos I'm not sure how to answer you, since your original claim is that He doesn't exist.

hopefulLandlord:


don't get emotional bro, I'm only scrutinising your claim of knowing exactly what those viewing are "thinking"

but if you don't want me to mention you again, just reiterate it and it would be done, no biggie

You're the one that's been emotional by gloating and mocking something you claim doesn't exist. It's just like me saying Ogres don't exist and still spending my whole life online on ogre websites, mocking.

As I said earlier, if your intention is mere sarcasm, there's no need of mentioning me. Just get at it.

hopefulLandlord:


audience? lol, never knew you can read minds, is that another gift from your imaginary hole-ly spirit?

If this is what you want to keep doing, please don't bother to mention me again. Is it that hard to figure you're not the only one viewing or will view this public topic?

hopefulLandlord:


it is an idea that's begging us to believe lol

The audience knows you're the one begging God not to exist. A simple look into your nairaland profile says it all. I rest my case.

hopefulLandlord:


he's not angry with any god, he's just telling you your god idea makes no sense!

don't make the mistake of thinking criticising your imaginary friend is same as hating it

Even an average student of English language knows if someone is angry from what he typed.
Point of correction, He's not an idea, He's an absolute truth which is not begging for you to believe. Just say He doesn't make sense to you, that's all. Don't get emotional about it.

hahn:


What was your god doing when Satan was causing problems? NOTHING!

Besides your god is to blame for evil. It has even accepted responsibility in the book of crap Isaiah 45:7 New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Yes. It is incompetent

I see you're angry with your God. Well, he's still your creator and you're his creature. You can't change that.

If you feel the inventors of gun powder are to blame for world War 1&2, it's your choice. And if you feel the German chemist who discovered uranium is to blame for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings too, it's your choice. Man has always been known to instinctively shift blame to others.

frank317:

Wow, how in the world is ur world view? How is it not a curse? It led to death, pain, hate, hell, fear, disobedience, disorganisation of even The all seeing God's plan? It led to the death of Christ, even the love we claim to give us out of selfish interest... Pls how is it not a curse?

Since the creature has the ability to exist without coordination from the creator, the creature is responsible for his actions. Man is responsible for the woes you listed up there. Or is the inventor of television to blame for the port that's aired on it 24/7? Is the inventor of gun powder to blame for word war 1&2? Sure you can't blame this people.

frank317:

A very good and loving creator decided to create man, gave then free will, which is the ability to act against him or do wrong, something he actually foresaw man doing. Yet when man act out the ability he gave him, which he already saw, he get angry and even gets into destruction mode. He goes into the drama of trying to rescue man.. pls tell me another story.

You've decided to see free will as ability to rebel. That's half truth. I can't help you with that.

frank317:

Buy would agree with me that foreknowledge without foreplanning is foolishness? It keeps getting worst.
In my opinion I think u guys have succeeded in making Gods foreknowledge ability a very useless one. This is what happens when u try to explain the unexplainable.

I've not said God didn't plan about the foreknowledge he had. That's why there was a Jesus to die for the redemption of Man. The book of revelation documents the plan of God based on his foreknowledge of the entirety of time.
It's not that hard to comprehend if you want to.

frank317:

And what about the person who assigned the choices to them knowing it's devastating effects, and he did this without their consent.

A creator is supposed to take permission from a creature before he creates that creature? Does that even make logical sense?

frank317:

Besides this did not answer the point I raised.
I asked u who is he trying to show his sovereignty? Who is he trying to please?

God is the great Monarch of the Universe. By that, he's not answerable to anyone. However, he's not a tyrant. All his creatures must always see that he's just.

frank317:

Isn't it petty that the almighty God created man just to show his sovereignty to his Creations? He sounds bored to me.

All things (including man) were created for His pleasure. Man was not created to showoff to or please the heavenly beings already in existence. But Man was created for the pleasure of God. It's that simple.

frank317:

Lets say there were being slightly above humans, would u prefer to be that being rather than being a human being?
You are only glad u are a human becasue that's what u actually are

I'm glad I'm a Man. If I were to chose again and again (though it's not real), I'll choose to be a man. You may not understand why though.




Trust me, if u were chicken u will be glad u are a chicken.
In all honesty, sometimes I wish I have more sophisticated abilities like disappearing, flying or reading the mind.
If God had made me an animal, a being with no freewill or a being with superhuman abilities I will still live with however he created me just I am living with what I am now. In essence if I have no free will or if I was an animated, I would still have nothing to lose. [/quote]
Unfortunately, you're created and the creator decides what to create.

frank317:

Lol now u are talking like the corruption of man was a surprise to God...well I have already shown u why I think this mission was pointless and avoidable.

The corruption of Man didn't come as a surprise to the Omniscient God. We've already gone past that.

frank317:

I am not sure of this... I am yet to see proof. But u are free to believe anything... In my opinion it is just a Jewish folk tale.

Doesn't that sound like you got no other counter-argument?

frank317:

U can say that, but if he can fail in almost three projects, he can fail again.
Project angel... Failure
Project man... Failure
Project Noah... Failure
Project Jesus... Millions still going to hell, devil is still ruling
I really cannot trust him with project hevean.

You see it as failure, I see it as permitting some things to happen. An omniscient and omnipotent God cannot fail.

frank317:

Good,
If u are a 65 years old man with a 30years old son. You know that if he gets married to the girl he is dating... If he freely chooses to marry her, he will definitely cheat on her and this will lead to a fight where she will make him blind forever.
As a father who has foreknowledge, you know this already... Would u expect him not to cheat on his wife when he gets married?

I'd expect him to go by my recommendation and choose wisely. But I won't take his freedom of choice away.

frank317:

Wouldn't the best to do be make alternative arrangements that would prevent the catastrophy?

Well, God made an arrangement for every thing. That's why there was Jesus to die.

frank317:

Would u sit down and watch destroy himself while u expect him to do what u already know he wouldn't do?
Again if at the end of the day u can't do anything about it, then ur foreknowledge ability is useless, don't u think?

I'd forewarn him.
Then I'll watch and let him use his will first (justice). If I don't, then I'm being a bad father by taking away his freedom in the name of protection.
But I'll make arrangements to salvage the situation when he makes the wrong choice (love).

hahn:


Never gonna happen. The same god that couldn't create earth the first time surely won't be able to achieve it if given a second chance

It's an undeniable truth. Our God already has a master plan in place to undo all the havoc that Satan has caused and to fix the problem of the world permanently and it'll be a happy ending. I look forward to that world. How do I know it's possible? my God is omnipotent. The fact that he's not acting now doesn't mean he cannot or is incapacitated.

darkhorizon:
To the theist/religious people in here(Christians and Muslims). What does Heaven have to offer?

What are the activities that will most likely be taking place in Heaven, Does the Bible and Quran make mention of this.
And besides,how is the aging system in Heaven since it is supposedly for eternity,is it that me and my fore father's of a thousand years ago will exist in the same form or what?

I am just curious, I need answers?


cc : kingebukasblog explorers egunmogaji lastmumu agentofallah felixomor hardmirror johnydon22 hopefulandlord seun Pastafarian hahn.

Psalms 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
Man was not created to Live in heaven and he'll never have to live there. The eternity of Man is here on earth. Just imagine the earth without sin, there you have it.

dalaman:


Its not true. Christians have persecuted many people all over the world. Christianity has been the religion of dome of the biggest empires in he world. Empires that enslaved and colonized others, alot of the religion was spread through conquest, so why be exactly are you crying about?

Can you give examples? Cos these your statements is obviously false even to a secondary school history student.

frank317:

It keeps getting worst... So he gave us option b, which is the ability to sin and called it free will. Let me ask u... Must free will go with sin? Couldn't we have had free will without the ability to sin?
Free will in this instance is a curse. It does not favour more than 3/4 of his Creations... What's the point?

Ability to choose between right and wrong. You say it's a curse, I say it isn't.

You're not getting my point obviously. If there's no tendency to act against the creator, then it's not free will and that's actually an act of insecurity by the creator.

frank317:

You said it, but his actions does not sound like one who has foreknowledge. He should have known giving humans free will will bring a lot of suffering... Perhaps that was his original plan?

Foreknowledge doesn't mean foreplanning. There's a difference between knowing something will happen and planning FOR something to happen.

frank317:

To show who? Who exactly is he trying to please?
I'd rather he did it all to massage his own ego. He needs obedience from his creations and gave them free will that would lead to thousand of deaths and suffering and hell as their final destination.

All creatures are responsible for the choices they make.

frank317:

Here is nothing to be grateful for. Are animals complaining that they hate being animas? If he had created me without free will,what would I have lost? Wouldn't I have happily lived my no free wil life?
Again, couldn't there have been freewill with out the ability to sin?

Would you prefer to be an animal then? No insult intended please.

frank317:

It's trial and error in my opinion... If not why destroy humans with water and later send Ur son to come die...why try to get it right when he has foreknowledge... Why not get it right from the beginning.

The coming of His Son would have been useless if there wasn't a deluge then. The human gene was corrupted then. Only the pure breed were preserved.

frank317:

Isn't this what makes the story fishy. Only in the Bible, that's where it all happened.

It happened in history and the Bible recorded it.

frank317:

And no, the fact that angels have not sinned against does not mean that they would never sin.. afterall u admitted that angels have sinned before.... Eternity is too long to think sin would never reoccur, i mean, given what happened in the past, don't u think?

It can't happen again. How do I know? The Bible also records a beautiful happy ending. Don't forget, God is omniscient.

frank317:

He gave us the ability to sin... And had foreknowledge that we will sin... Yet... Oga, watin u de talk self.

We've gone over this a million times.

frank317:

How can he expect us to make the right choice when he gave us that ability to sin and had the foreknowledge that we will sin... If u have foreknowledge that if u leave ur 3years old the freedom to play on ur dining table he will fall and break his leg. You know this for sure. Will u leave him to freely play on the table while u expect him not to fall?
How can u expect him not to fall when u already know he will fall?

The example doesn't fit. I prefer you replace 3 with 30 and try to see if the example fits.

dalaman:



That's because Nigerians are not matured to deal with atheist. Even in developed and advanced countries like the USA atheist are hated and discriminated up on.

I sympathize with you. But I need to remind you that christians are the most persecuted in every part of the world since the death of christ.

praisejoshua:
COME TO LIGHT BROTHERS AND SISTERS!! LET US STOP DECEIVING OURSELVES THAT WE ARE CHRISTIANS WHEN THE WHOLE TRUTHS ARE NOT HIDDEN.

I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT ONLY ISLAM IS THE TRUE UNIVERSAL RELIGION ON EARTH. THE REST ARE CARNALIOUS, IDOLATRIOUS, SATANIC AND EMPTY. THERE IS NO SALVATION ANYWHERE EXCEPT IN ISLAM.

DEAL WITH IT, BUT I HAVE SAID NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

Is this all you'll say and just walk away? A lot of weird people on nairaland.

SabiKing:

David Meade who is a Christian numerologist has predicted that the world will end on September 23 and has prediction has matched that of stargazers who claim to decoded the Egyptian pyramids.

The stargazers said the Great Pyramid was a date marker of when the apocalypse would set in. In a report by Daily Star, Meade used bible verses to match the position of heavenly bodies and said a giant planet called Nibiru or Planet X will crash into Earth and the world will end.

Please help with the Bible verses he used. I'm interested.

jiggaz:
Religious people often complain that we grace preachers don’t emphasize repentance sufficiently. It’s true. I hardly emphasize it at all. But then neither did the Apostle John.

Here’s something that will fry your mind: Repentance is one of the most important things you’ll ever do but John never mentions the word. Not once. Not in his gospel or in any of his three letters. I guess John must’ve been a grace preacher.

Repentance matters a great deal, but you don’t get people to repent by preaching repentance.

“How can you say such heresy Paul?”

I’ll answer that question in a moment. But first, let me ask you which of the following is the best definition of repentance:

1. Repentance means to turn from sin

2. Repentance means to change your mind

As we saw in the last post, repentance is a lot like football. It means different things to different people. But Biblical repentance simply means “change your mind.” It’s what the word literally means. You can change your mind about anything, but Jesus calls us to change our mind and believe the good news (Mk 1:15). True repentance is evidenced by turning to God.

Your definition of repentance will reveal whether you are living under grace or works. In the Old Testament, sinners repented by bringing a sacrifice of penance and confessing their sins (Num 5:7). But in the new we bring a sacrifice of praise and confess his name (Heb 13:15).

We don’t do anything to deal with our sins for Jesus has done it all. Our part is to believe the good news and say thank you Jesus! It is when we receive his gift of no condemnation that we are empowered to go and sin no more.

No matter how much I preach on grace, some people just can’t see the cross for their sins. They write to tell me I’m under-selling repentance. What they mean is, “Paul you’re not telling people to turn from their sin.” It’s true. I seldom do. I’d rather talk about God’s goodness than your badness.

Yet often the message we hear is this: “God is holy and he won’t accept you unless you turn from sin.” It’s sold as a message of repentance and it appeals to our Adamic sense of “I can fix what I broke” but it’s utterly false. It’s a lie to promote the flesh and keep you from coming to Jesus.

The fact is God is holy and he won’t accept you no matter what you do. His acceptance and favor come by grace alone. Got a sin-problem? Turn to the cross and behold Christ. Come boldly to the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace. His grace is your only hope.

Here are three reasons why you should reject any message that defines repentance as turning from sin:

1. It puts people under law

Preach “turn from sin or you’re not saved” and you are preaching pure law. You are prescribing sin-rejection as a means for salvation. This false gospel actually leaves sinners worse off because it empowers the sin that enslaves them while scorning the grace of God that might otherwise save them (1 Cor 15:56, Rm 11:6).

The righteousness that God offers is not conditional on your ability to perform. Neither your good works nor your bad works enter the equation. The gospel of grace reveals the gift of righteousness that is received by faith from first to last (Rom 1:17).

2. It doesn’t lead people to salvation

Let me give you a picture to illustrate true repentance. Suppose I call you up and give you an invitation to come to my house. You’ve never been here before so you need directions. There are two ways I could direct you. I could give you my address and provide an accurate picture of where I live. Or I could say, “flee from your house – just drive from your house as fast as possible and don’t look back.” Do you see the difference? In both cases you’re going to leave your house. That’s guaranteed. But only by trusting my directions will you arrive at my house. Repentance is just like that. It’s not fleeing from sin like a Pharisee. It’s turning to God in faith. In both cases you will leave your sin. But only by trusting God will you actually arrive someplace better than where you started.

To get people to repent (change their minds) Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom. He painted a picture of where God wanted them to be (with him here and now) and he gave them clear directions on how to get there (have faith in God).

It was the same with Paul. He didn’t walk into Corinth, one of the world’s most depraved cities, and preach “turn from sin.” Instead he resolved to know nothing but “Christ and him crucified” (1 Cor 2:2).

People need to hear how much God loves them. They need to hear about his unconditional favor and grace. The best way to tell them is to reveal the finished work of the cross. When the Corinthian Christians fell into sin, Paul still didn’t preach “turn from sin.” Instead he reminded them of their identity in Christ. He understood that grace, not dead works, is the cure for sin.

3. We’re called to preach the gospel, not repentance

Should you repent? Of course! I actually think there needs to be more repentance, particularly from believers. Repentance should be our life-style. You cannot renew your mind without repenting for repenting means to change your mind. When I discover something new about the goodness of God, I repent – I change my way of thinking so that my life lines up with what is true. I repent every day and it’s wonderful. I’m not the same person I was even six months ago because I am in the habit of repenting.

Repentance is one of the most important things you’ll ever do but you don’t get people to repent by telling them to repent. Instead, give them a good reason to repent and they’ll repent.

Paul said repentance comes as a consequence of learning about the goodness of God (Rom 2:4). So if you want people to repent, tell them how good God is. Preach the good news, which is this: God loves you, he died for you and he offers you his righteousness. Do you believe it? God’s power for salvation – for your forgiveness, healing, deliverance and provision – is revealed in the good news of grace. Do you believe it? All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone. Do you believe it?

Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. Repentance, like faith, is a positive response to something God has said or done.

John says little about repentance but he talks about believing over and over. He said that he wrote so “that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name” (Joh 20:31). The key to life is not in turning from sin but trusting in Jesus.

You want others to repent? Then preach the gospel that reveals the goodness of God: Jesus has done it all!


https://escapetoreality.org/2011/11/28/3-reasons-why-i-dont-preach-on-repentance/

And which Bible are you using to come up with this? I'm sure it's not the same Bible that we read.
Simple question: Use scripture to define GOSPEL and show us from scripture what Jesus spent his 3 years of ministry doing and what the early apostles in the Book of Acts preached as the gospel.

An2elect2:
I learned Christ embassy sent a message to all their cell leaders to stay of social media platforms so they don't get to hear things like this.

Does truth hide? Or run away from criticism? I know God laughs at these deceived people

You forgot to state your source. Cos if you don't have a valid source, then you're wrong.

plaetton:
Because atheism is not a philosophical proposition, I find no need to wear my atheistic worldview as a badge. I tolerate the fact that the far majority of people I come into contact with everyday have one religious belief or another.
But what I cannot ever seem to understand is why Christians, who enjoy and relish advertising and promoting their own God /Jesus worldviews, actually seen to melt down into tantrums and convulsions whenever they encounter an atheist.

I have experienced this too many times, and have lost potentially good friendships with people of the Christian faith who are very very eager to preach their silly unsolicited stone age beliefs to me, but seem to go into convulsions when I reveal atheistic worldview to them.

Does it not mean that the entire edifice of faith and beliefs are built upon, based upon , and rely solely upon self- validations ?

Like I asserted in a recent thread, the entire edifice of religious belief and faith , gods and saviours , relies on acceptance , and then shared acceptance of same by others.
God begins to die when people, people like me, begin to reject the notion.

I really want to understand how a Christian mind reacts when they encounter a live atheist. I have seen the same repeating pattern of disappointment, resentment and a complex that follows whenever a Christian forces me to assert my atheistic worldview.

Their reactions and subsequent attitudes towards me is proof that religious belief is like a psychological Ponzi scheme, whereby everyone feels or receives Validation when the person above or below you reasserts or revalidates the same nonsense that you believe as your primary worldview.
When someone, an atheist like me, Threatens to invalidate that worldview, then the entire psychological Ponzi scheme becomes at risk, vulnerable to dismantling.

I had an encounter with a friend yesterday, a religious nut, who had no idea that I was an atheist.
In typical fashion, he provoked an argument on religion, when I countered with facts, I could immediately see the melt down on his countenance. He couldn't stand the argument, because he had no facts, so he quickly disappeared. I know that that is probably the end of budding friendship.
But why, I ask ?

Why does he expect me accept and Validate his very very silly stone age beliefs, but melts down when I counter with facts based on hundreds of years of accumulated scientific knowledge ?
Isn't that proof that religious faith is based on nothing but mere wishful thinking ?
And that religious faith is simply the extreme version of DOUBTS , Doubts camouflaged by Fear ?

Your topic is a fallacy of overgeneralization. It's accurate to say SOME Christians prefer not to argue with an atheist. But that your topic is an inaccurate bold statement. The fact that your friend dodged your attempt to engage in argument doesn't mean that's what every Christian will do.

In my own experience, atheists are afraid (or maybe jealous) of Christians that know what they're doing. An average atheist will resort to mockery or sarcasm when he encounters such Christian. Atheism in Nigeria only thrive in anonymous forums like nairaland. Some self-acclaimed atheist here still goto church.