kabe1:


...And It's stuck in the mud.

To be fair, almost anything can get stuck in the mud. Mud is a b... also it's not just the vehicle, it's the driver too. Besides, MRAPs are more prone to getting stuck in the mud.

What country is this? Nigeria?

jl115:

Iran self sufficient? My bru all there major equipment is imported.... However only difference is Egypt has imported some of the latest and most advanced equipment on the market and Iran has mostly cold War era equipment that have been obsolete for decades..... They have 0 modern fighters(Mig29s are from the late 80s), 0 modern gunships, 0 modern tanks,0 modern artillery(besides the G5 which they only have 50), 0 modern ships..... They literally have nothing

P.s there tanks are frankenstein monsters, just old T72s mated to M60s....

Facts!

I'd say Iran is capable of making very impressive weapons and I wouldn't underestimate them. We cannot also say that either Egypt or Iran is stronger, because A) different doctrine and tactics (e.g. Iran puts a lot of emphasis on drones and ballistic missiles, something Egypt doesn't do as much and rather focuses on conventional weapon systems) B) luck (under this term I imagine a lot of things that are not entirely based on "luck", such as bad choices of enemy) C) different weapon system we often know little about because, and this might be surprising to many, most militaries keep specifications secretive. In fact look at Ukraine x Russia right now. No matter on whose side you are, you have to admit Ukraine is putting up hell of a fight for a country, that most predicted, would fall in 3 days. Contrary to this, many predicted Afghanistan would last a lot longer than it actually did. So unless this conflict happens, we might never know and let's hope we never find out. We can of course guess, but with questionable result.

However, despite Iran producing some weapon systems they mostly built on their own, majority of weapon systems come from abroad or are reverse engineered. For example tank force compromises mostly of T-72S tanks (export version of T-72B1), Safir-74 (T-55 with upgrades like 105mm gun, new engine and Kontakt-1 derivative ERA - i.e. something Egypt also did with T-55E MkII Ramses), Chieftains (upgraded with T-72 engine), M60 tanks... There are of course many prototypes like Karrar, T-72 Rakhsh (only in a few pieces in service) and Zulfiqar. None of which entered service in greater numbers or at all. And this is common phenomenon in many fields, where most of the equipment is license copy/reverse engineered/old and upgraded to some extent/prototype that didn't enter service. Of course I'm not denying that there is some very succesfull and mass produced fully Iranian equipment, like Safir Jeep or Mohajer-6 UAV.

On the other hand, Egypt is either procuring from abroad, building under license production (most of the quipment), upgrading old stuff or producing some of the local equipment, though only a portion compared to other approaches. Egypt is though, just like Iran, capable of producing some of the technologies/equipment on their own without any/with little help from outside.

lionel4power:


NA T-72s destroyed BH T-55s and Vickers around 2015.

Cool, I didn't even know that!

Sometimes Sudan is not recognized as Sub-Saharan country so that's why I left it out in my comment, but there was also one famous tank on tank battle in the south of country. South Sudanese T-72AV tanks engaged and destroyed some Sudanese T-55 tanks, later on in the conflict, this South Sudanese T-72AV unit was spotted by Sudanese Type 85-IIM ('al-Bashir') tank unit and ambushed. The result was multiple destroyed South Sudanese T-72AV tanks with no Sudanese losses.

GreenandGold:

but, anyways, the Olifant MBT is still the only tank that has actually shot other tanks in combat in Sub-Sahara.

That's not true actually, T-55 and T-62/Chonma-Ho tanks also engaged other tanks in Sub-Saharan area. For example DR Congolese T-55s engaged other T-55s used by M23 rebels (whom previously captured them from FARDC). Or for example Ethiopian T-55s and T-62/Chonma-Hos battled with Eritrean T-55s (and perhaps T-62/Chonma-Hos too). Recently, in Tigrayan war, tanks were used by both sides and might have engaged in tank duels, however information is very scarce and majority of battles were unreported. Ethiopia also used T-72B1 and T-72UA1 tanks and a few were captured by Tigrayans, but I don't know whether any engaged in tank on tank combat.

Tanks were also used in Rhodesian Bush War, but unfortunately for Rhodesians, T-55LD tanks (given to them by South Africa that seized them before reaching Angola) came too late to the party and Zambia's T-34/85 and T-55 tanks were only engaged by Elands. So there wasn't any tank on tank engagement in Rhodesian Bush War.

Oh geez, First Nairaland African War here.

I'll go get my popcorn before I read this :DD

GreenandGold:


Nigeria has no SAM defense system...

Doesn't Nigeria still use the Roland SAM systems? They also use Shilkas and Bofors guns, but these are pretty outdated.

kabe1:


No they don't. Why do the US Marines fly the AH-1Z Viper instead of Apache Helicopters?

The Nigerian Air Force is not the Nigerian army. They do not have a combined budget.

You cannot claim that they are the same. The Air Force is different from the Army, and where assets are deployed tells you about the ease of employment, durability and effectiveness of that asset.


Actually 3 units of Marauder MRAPs bought by the Nigerian Air Force.

Source: SIPRI arms transfer database.

USMC and US Army are just different, you can hardly compare any smaller army in the world to their budget, structure etc. And it's still not the best comparison, both are built in the US, both share the same weapons and some of the systems too, both manufacturers supply more equipment types to the branches, in case of AH-1Z, it even shares parts with UH-1Y.

But the MRAPs are just completly different than any other branch uses, shares no parts with them. And I didn't say they are the same, what I mean is the problems that come with buying the spare parts. Can you imagine the soldiers ordering so many different parts from so many sources and then distributing them? That's the real pain in the ass, especially in case of war. Even countries that diversify their arsenal usually maintain just a few sources of equipment.

As for the REVAs, so do you have any source for your claims? You can share the photos of their terrible performance, if they are so common it shouldn't be hard. Cannibalization is common, nothing special that would prove said vehicle is mediocre. I've sat in REVA before, that thing is simple but definitely not obsolete.

And the purchase doesn't say anything about their performance, rather that simply the CS/VP3 is cheaper and therefore Nigeria could offer to buy more of them than the REVAs.

I've just read the rest of your answers and sorry, I don't have time for this. SIPRI is awful source, SIPRI also claimed Angola has BMD-3 that they have never ever received. Not sure if they finally fixed it in newer issues. It often contains a lot of innacuracies. I can't blame you for using it though, it's probably the only source that claims any number, it's just not very reliable from my experience. And thank you for providing me with some sources, after I asked you, but also with adding on top of it more statements, you have again, not backed by any sources. I backed my claims and you ignored it.

kabe1:

REVA MRAPs no longer exist in Nigerian army service. The vehicles proved to lack the technical characteristics required to operate in a Nigerian environment. Phased out, and obsolete.

Marauder MRAP - 2 units used by the Nigerian Air Force for Base Defence, not used by the Nigerian army. Different Service!!



24 units, second hand, donated to the Nigerian army in 2013/14. No longer in service with the Nigerian army



All the above mentioned vehicles are the primary MRAPs employed by the Nigerian army in the North-East.



You are wrong, the fact that the Nigerian army bought some of these in the past, doesn't mean they are still in service.

Mengshi CSK-131- 100 units acquired - in service

KIA K152 - 6 units acquired - significant possibility that they have all been destroyed in combat.

VAB,- Do you mean the Panhard VBL -Nigeria purchased these vehicles in 1986(36 years ago) withdrawn from frontline service and into storage.

KrAZ Spartan - Phased out or destroyed in combat.

Otokar Cobra - purchased in 2003, initially withdrawn from the front-line, but around 15 units were recently put back into action.



You are yet to provide any evidence to support your claims that there is a logistical Nightmare currently unfolding in the Nigerian military MRAP deployment.

Can you post that evidence you claim to have?

REVA: They are better than majority of the MRAPs Nigeria has in service, phasing them out for being "obsolete" would be ridiculous. Do you have any support for your claim that they are phased out and obsolete? Also if REVAs lacked technical characteristics to operate in Nigerian service, why did army order 40 then?

Marauder: How is that relevant? Usually armies try to have some unification between branches and I would love to know what is your source for just 2 in service. All I could find is that there is unknown number in service. Either way, you still need to deliver parts for them, further stretching logistics.

MAXXPRO and Caiman: Wrong! You could see them on ceremony when Ezugwus entered service back in 2020. Remember the picture in my previous post? Yeah, they are in the picture ) By the way, according to numerous sites, such as army recognition, they were donated in 2016, not earlier... https://www.nairaland.com/1386870/african-militaries-security-services-strictly/318 it was also posted here


Funny you say I'm wrong but don't back your claim. I could say the exact same thing.
I won't say anything about numbers in service or where such vehicles serve, which matters a little, main logistical problem is number of types.

But your claim that Nigeria has 6 KIA K142 in service catched my eyes, any source for this? Because I haven't found any specified number that has been ordered/received.

Panhard VBL: a few days ago you have posted a picture of one Nigerian VBL, isn't it recent? It's on page 2539. Anyway, last pictures I have of Panhards are from 2019.

KrAZ Spartan: Not true, still in service, I have some pictures from last year. I have attached 2 of them...

Otokar Cobra: I know they are still in service, I have attached one picture of them.


This is my source, this number of types is awfully large, too many unique types that share few or no parts at all. And the diversity of importers of these vehicles is also large, usually armies buy from just a few countries.

kabe1:


No, talk about what is reality, not want you want to be reality.

There are no half a dozen types in Nigerian army service.

There are only CS/VP3 MRAPs from China & Legion MRAPs from the UAE. Proforce Ara & Ezugwu are Nigerian.

Okay, so I looked into my files where I have pictures of Nigerian army. And I have these types:

South Africa: REVA MkIII, Marauder
USA: MAXXPRO, BAE Caiman
UAE: Isotrex Legion, Isotrex Phantom 2
China: CS/VP3 Bigfoot
Nigeria: Ezugwu, Proforce ARA

To add to this, Nigeria army also operates highly diverse armored personnel carriers like Mengshi CSK-131, KIA K152, VBL, KrAZ Spartan, Otokar Cobra... And no, all of this is still in service, none have been phased out. Also my list might not be complete, I was never really interested in Nigerian army as much as in other ones, so I only have a few photos downloaded. Anyway, this is a lot of types and I haven't even started writing list of
other vehicle types where Nigerian army is just as diverse. This is logistical nightmare in my opinion.

There is also this Nigerian MRAP that I have seen a couple of times, articles claim they entered service but I don't know their name or if that's true.

kabe1:


Those Tanks are owned by South-Sudan.

These? They are definitely not owned by South Sudan.

Fynline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsyTkQrrPaM

KDF

I like the wheeled arty

Weird they didn't show KDF's T-72AV tanks

Stormtrooper11:


Ain't that a ferret?!

Nope, Panhard AML-60 and behind it is AML-90

iblawi:
western media won't show you this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABoxuvHzwz4

LOL, this is ARMA 3 game

Stormtrooper11:


Please, what's the name of this vehicle?!

EBRC Jaguar

DRC Land Rover 90 Hardtop and Land Rover modified for carrying troops outside (similar to Toyota Land Cruiser modification seen all over Africa).

Balogunodua:
Ukis already losing US over hyped switchblade...

The second picture is TB-2 that has been found in Romania, likely the same piece that has been used to bait Moskva cruiser.
And as for the third picture, multiple Russian accounts claim Russians have captured many Switchblade drones but so far they have only posted picture of this very example that is damaged. It has bullet hole through the head and broken sensor/camera so it was damaged before it could have been even used, making it effectively useless for use against Ukrainians. Just wanted to clarify this...

NTSA:
Kdf BOV M11 specialised reconnaissance vehicles.

These are WZ-551

Tinfoil:


But overall Russia has failed because Nato is expanding. Only nuking Poland can give them back prestige

What?! In case of nuking countries we are not talking about prestige but about being desperate. And the moment they would do that, they'd lose any that has been left. But I'm afraid there wouldn't be many people left to judge such thing as "prestige"

More pictures, this time from the east of the country.

DRC 30mm PLdvK vz. 53/59 "Ještěrka" - Congolese army uses them for fire support against rebels. A few examples were captured by M23 rebels.

Lurker4Long:

You will soon learn some characters here aren't worth the time for argument.

Yeah, I should probably give up trying. Anyway, for an African military forum there is too much world politics. I mean I get this is called "foreign affairs" but still, this forum would shrink at least half its size if only African military topics were discussed here.

DRC Republican guard T-64B1M - for full story I fully recommend this article by Oryx Spienkop: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2021/06/welcome-to-jungle-ukrainian-t-64b1m.html

Tinfoil:


Sadam, Gaddafi,... gave up his WMD and that's when he was attacked, Iran, N.Korea,... survives because of it weapons

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://media.defense.gov/2019/Apr/11/2002115480/-1/-1/0/14NEXTGENBIOWEAPONS.PDF&ved=2ahUKEwj-0pOBwuT3AhU6SvEDHaNTBZEQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2S3wCnmgwiV7WcZVaqUbvw

Last time I checked, Syria's possesion of chemical weapons invited numerous airstrikes on it's soil by numerous countries. Iraq's delevopment of nuclear weapons wasn't welcomed by Israel either and provoked them enough to execute Operation Opera. In case Iran decided to continue on development of nuclear weapons, I'm more than certain we would have seen sabotage by Israel. Sadam's weapons of mass destruction was also one of the main reasons why coalition attacked Iraq, whether he had any or it was made up justification for invasion is up for a different debate. As for Libya, it has fallen apart from the inside many years after Gaddafi signed the chemical weapons treaty, chemical weapons had nothing to do with it though.

In case someone decides to bring up example of North Korea, it's not the case either. Sure, their nuclear weapons and likely chemical weapons play some role, however, even if DPRK didn't have any, it just wouldn't be worth it for South Korea/USA to try anything. DPRK has so much artillery within reach of Seoul that it would be reckless bloodbath.

Also, developing chemical weapons is not as easy as you might think. It's much easier than nuclear weapons, but it's still not something you can easily hide. And just the development and not sustaining any relations with the west would catch unwanted attention of western spy agencies. I cannot comment much on the diseases because that's not field of my interest. However even China that plays by it's own rules had to make some concessions because of Covid spread. Not to mention if you were to use any bio weapons on enemy, in today's world of fast travel you are just as likely to affect your own population too.

Tinfoil:


The best African countries can do to deter the west is have bio-weapons

That's exactly not how you deter West. The worst idea you can have and how to invite foregin airstrikes on your own soil, especially if you threaten to use them or use them on certain group within the country.

DRC BTR-60PB

[quote author=kabe1 post=112798952][/quote]

That's picture taken before coup. Regardless of opinion on the coup itself, which I know nothing about, at least a lot of pictures of their Chinese APC/AFV armour surfaced on the internet. On the other hand whenever I try to look up pictures of Zimbabwean military vehicles, I get spammed with and only pictures from coup.

Any pictures of Zimbabwean army vehicles? Besides the coup photos they are hard to find it seems.

kabe1:


How do they have all this equipment, yet their soldiers fighting in the East of the country look so poorly equipped?

Don't ask me, I don't understand it either.

My presumption is that goverment officials are scared of coups and there has been numerous attempts in the past. Therefore the most well equipped and trustworthy force, Republican guard that receives all the good and new stuff, is based near major cities where they have biggest control. So the army is the only force that carries main weight of fighting in the east of country, while Republican guard sits in their bases with all the heavy armour. Just to clarify, I've seen Republican soldiers in the east of Congo too, but they are rarely engaged in combat and they are there with only soft skin vehicles. Fact that Congo is full of rainforests likely also plays a role, making it unaccessible for heavy armour in majority of country, though as army has demonstrated, they can use tanks in the east without any major problems. So I'd say mainly the first reason in my opinion.

DRC has unknown number of 2nd generation Plasan SandCats - in 2015 it was reported DRC wanted to buy Georgian made Didgori-2s, but a year later, in 2016, Georgian officials had rejected the deal. Thus it's likely DRC went on to buy Plasans instead for it's Republican Guard. Spotted on 2018 parade

DRC Bombardier Iltis (Canadian version of Volkswagen Iltis) - They are Belgian surplus vehicles, some even retain Belgian license plate that has been repainted to not include Belgian flag. Unsure how many they have received, but it's clear they are much less common than Toyotas

kabe1:
From Russian Sources

Over the past three days, the Kiev regime has lost 30 military unmanned aerial vehicles in the area of ​​​​Snake Island, of which nine are Bayraktar TB2

official representative of the Russian Ministry of Defense Igor Konashenkov.

����❗️Ukraine lost 14 planes and helicopters while trying to capture Snake Island - Russian Defense Ministry

From Ukrainian sources

"Our source in the OP said that in the last two weeks we have lost more Bayraktar TB2s than in the entire war. The failure of the operation to storm the Snake island and unsuccessful flights to military facilities in Russia cost us 50 Bayraktar. The Turkish side has already expressed its dissatisfaction with the use of drones, but the General Staff has its own vision on the use of Bayraktar TB2"

Any links to Ukrainian sources?