₦airaland Forum

hermesprogidy:
Hmmmm... Your view point is very valid, but if you consider the increasing number of clubs that can afford quality players (especially in England)and the highly competitive nature of the game these days, then it is only fair you view things from another window and commend Arsenal, if they win the Carabo Cup.

Take Manchester United for instance, 10-12 years ago, they would not have considered winning the Carabo cup (Then Carling Cup) a significant achievement. Fast forward to 2017, and Mourinho is counting the Community Shield as a trophy!!! embarrassing (I am a Manu fan) but desperate times require desperate measures.

But point taken, big clubs should have big ambitions.

Thanks boss. Much appreciated. A trophy is a trophy, in all honesty. But I think different kinds of clubs attach different grades of importance to competitions.
Definitely, from a perspective of Arsenal being in a difficult if not downward spiral, winning the League Cup is an achievement, but thinking that a decade ago the club just came off a finals appearance in the UCL final, it's actually not really a big deal.




Point noted.

Nna eh,

See formation analysis.

I just dey look like say we dey algebra class.

hermesprogidy:
Rather interesting exchange @omonnakoda and @bushwickbill. Clearly you both are very intelligent and passionate football fans. Allow me to wade in.
- is Arsenal a big club? It depends on context. If you go by their local and international fan base, revenue, and history. Yes they are a big club. They may not have won a champions league, but they are still considered a big club, both locally and internationally.

- Should Arsenal be content with winning just local cup competitions? No they shouldn't. They should be gunning for the league and European cups. They are a big club.
- Who is to blame for the club's present predicament? First, the Arsenal Board, then closely followed by Arsene Wenger himself. They both lack ambition and are only interested in profits. Throw in the fact that Wenger personally detests the fact that footballers earn so much money coupled with a frugal board, is a recipe for under-achievement in today's football arena.

Thank you sir.

This was my original summation when folks steeped in mediocrity are praising Wenger for getting to the final of a third rate competition.

I say no more. I'm glad someone sees my point here.

oruma19:
the guy good to mud I swear. Na yeye criminal. U nor go bliv say pple still de go the church de pay tithe...Imagine the bastard preaching. They have converted the word of God to motivational speaking and only smooth talkers like dis fool can gather enough members and fleece them of their hard earned resources. I an even tired of going to church cos of these men...I tire jor..

It is sad. Really sad

Jesus came to give life and redeem us from our sins.
These people are just ruining lives and living in vanity.

Deckline:
Shut up.

Eyah.

incapable of thinking of something else.

So predictable.

Stylish Christian.

"Shut up" . . .

Deckline:
Mtchew.. Shut up.

At least try to be innovative. Change your grammar, think of something else. Don't be robotic.

Go on, you can try to think of something else.

Deckline:
Shut up.

Lol.

Continue sir.

At the end of the day you will only insult. Sticks and stones may break my bones. . . your words are just a reflection of you.

Continue shutting me up

in 5.....4....3....2....

blaze007:
I don't know y u have to be abusive to make a point. If u can not make sense without being abusive bye. I don't need to exchange words with pple that have twisted lives.

Abusive?

Advising you to grow a brain is now abusive.

Lol

You people and victim mentality.

Please grow a brain, I beg you.

Deckline:
Please... Shut up.

On cue.

As predictable as ever.

Your Jesus will be very proud of you.

The stylish Jesus.

Go on. Insult me.

chuckdee4:
A salty, foul mouthed Christian, you insult me and conclude with 'Shalom'.
What a model Christian, your Pastor must be proud

You get time.

Do you actually take these goons seriously?

All these people see Pentecostal Christianity as an escape route from poverty and nothing more. That is why there is no trace of evidence of Christ in them.

Deckline:
So, Whats wrong with being stylish?? Nigerians with their chicken brains shaa....

Just like your Lord Jesus was stylish.

Bring on the lies to justify your position. e.g. Jesus wore expensive material and all that rubbish.

oruma19:
stylish kwa...leading pple to hell..fire fire on all these yahoo boyz pastors deceiving pple. We are still waiting for his "robust reply" on the fuckjng of ESE Walters and other girls... All this business/ yahoo boys using the bible... God judge Una quickly. Ese Walters is an atheist today because of u Mr biodun fatoyinbo... Her soul must be required from ur hands...esu!

The Ese has denounced Christianity because of this fellow and the treatment she got from fellow "Christians" in the light of the scandal.

The soul of one person has been lost because of this nefarious and greedy human/

They just use tis pastor thing to suit their agendas and live out their heart's desires. They do not have anything to offer anyone.

All this one dos is to form swag while souls are perishing. And they will expect me to take him and his lot seriously.

blaze007:
Preach on brother!!! But I will advice you open your own church and show the other pastors how to proclaim Christ and also deflect attention to Christ.

Dumb post.

Unlike your ilk, he will not pastor a church when he is not called.
That is why the so-called pastor is yet to give a "robust response" to an allegation of adultery after promising to do so nearly four years later.
Because he was not called.

Grow a brain and think for yourself.

omonnakoda:
In order to misquote I must first quote. Where did I quote you?

Where did Porto and Greece come into this argument?

omonnakoda:
Who has the comprehension problem

I went on to list the clubs that I consider big so clearly for me bigness is about clubs like Barca Bayern AC Milan,Juventus and Madrid.

Arsenal were nearly in that category.
But internationally they are one notch down

Comprende?

Save all this dust.
Is Arsenal a big club or not?

omonnakoda:
Porto won Champions league that does not make it a big club
Just like winning European Championship does not make Greece a big football nation
The biggest clubs in England are

Liverpool Man United
Arsenal Newcastle
Chelsea Spurs Man City in something like that order

Except that Porto has won Europe's top club competition TWICE. And you call me a young person. Check the facts.

I am not saying anything about footballing nations o. Please stop misquoting me. That is not the argument.
There are football miracles, but they will never happen again. The fact that they happened doesn't change the minnow status of those teams or their nation.
Just like Leicester City and Blackburn Rovers will never be footballing heavyweights on the basis of one premier league title.

Context please.

omonnakoda:
First Arsenal is not my club and I agree they are a big club in the UK and should be more ambitious
Have I suggested otherwise at any point?
Liverpool are a big club and have Never won the premiership ditto for Newcastle

You said they are a "nearly big club".
Those are your words not mine.
Unless comprehension is an issue for you, I really don't see why we are arguing about this.

My point has always been clear. Wenger being justified on the strength of Cup victories and Charity Shield titles is a non starter argument. If you watch Arsenal TV, you would understand what I mean. If he has lost motivation, that is another argument, as is the fact that the board is reluctant to fire him. But in the context of English clubs, you cannot dispute that Arsenal is a big club and should be doing better.

Thierry Henry, Ian Wright and other former Arsenal players turned pundits say the same thing week in, week out. It is only here on the pages of a faceless forum that people think otherwise.

Alighoda2:
there is no doubt about that, arsenal has a great history, but clubs like Chelsea has surpass that by winning the champions league, which arsenal could not win.

Chelsea might be bigger ,but my context is that Arsenal is still a big club.
That they choose to operate in a certain way doesn't change that fact. That is my point.

Man United has been struggling since Ferguson left. Does that reduce their stature as the biggest club in England, and arguably the world?
United win the Europa League, but even their hardcore fans realize that they should be competing for league titles and the Champions League.

theDEVILisHERE:
The owners of a club determine how things are run at a club
This is what they're trying to tell you
If you want to complain, complain about the owners not the manager

Wenger scores more than 90% based on the current club plans, that why he's still there

Oga STFU.
It doesn't negate the fact that Arsenal should be doing more.
If Toyota starts to operate like Innoson, does it remove the fact that they should be doing better?

omonnakoda:
Was it the same management in place when Arsenal won the league? Do you know the role David Dein played? Was it the same owners?
Clearly you are just sounding off ignorantly

David Dein?
Lol.
More excuses.
Even if I wasn't born then, that is as pitiable as you can get.

Arsenal is a big club in the UK. They should do more than reaching Cup finals abeg.

omonnakoda:
Guy talk football
Ok

Primma donna, go and sleep.
A supposed elder is hiding behind his club's failures to use it as an excuse. When you point out reasons why they cannot be termed a small club, you are just jumping up and down.

omonnakoda:
I agree a standard was set for
NEARLY big club

Since then Chelsea have won the league more times I believe and even won the Championship.
Chelsea are not a big club in my opinion and In my opinion Arsenal are bigger than Chelsea

Anyway Wenger is not responsible for shortcomings, the Management iDid I call Arsenal SMALL?

If I did I take it back but they are not big

Big is Liverpool, Manchester United,
Bayern Munich,
A C Milan
Juventus
Barcelona
Real Madrid

Disrespect?
You are a very sensitive man?deal with it


Very disrespectful
I just highlighted your obvious ignorance of football history.
There is no disrespect in being young so deal with your personal insecurities
Your problem

ignorance?
Please save your ego for your private life.

I did not talk about Europe o. But in your ITK way you went ahead to classify them with Real and co.
I only said Arsenal are a big club in UK. The discussion was about settling for Cup competitions, so stay on point. In your eagerness to impress yourself and appear intelligent you went and started talking out of point.

Use Liverpool as a reason for not winning the league since 2004 all you want. But Arsenal is a big club in the UK at least.

Alighoda2:
you are right, but the problem is that the club is satisfied with such achievements, how do you expect a club that sells her best players to rivals to win a major trophy. the problem is with the board and the coach, until those two sets of people leave that club, arsenal will not progress

You made fair points.

I think that if Dangote decides to ride Keke Marwa, it doesn't take away the fact that he is a rich man. If he decids to relocate to a rented flat instead of his own palatial home, that is his decision.

Arsenal have decided to take the policy of selling its best talent to make money. But in reality they are a great club, in England at least. That they choose not to act that way is down to them for reasons best known to them.

I have listed criteria that makes them a big club in response to other posts. I don't know if you agree or not with me. Their history is more significant than those of Chelsea, Spurs and even City.
There's no denying that Arsenal are a big club. In my view.

omonnakoda:
Bigness is international not Johnny come lately bigness.

After winning the premiership 3 times there was a chance that Arsenal would become a big club. Building a bigger stadium was a move in that direction but that has reversed. The finest moment was getting to the Champions League final.
Since then it has been backwards ever.

Arsenal are NEARLY a big club. Nearly
E remain small
You are clearly young but some of us followed football BEFORE there was a premiership. Arsenal are a tier 2 club.
Don't know what you mean by

Adopt


They are not trying to win the premiership. The reason Wenger is not being sacked is that winning the premiership is not a target.
His target has been top four and then pretend to want to win the premiership . I am sure they go back in private and have a good laugh about it at the expense of the fans.
The deal is Wenger is the bogeyman for all the fans anger but the reality is that winning the premiership is not a goal of the owners and has not been ever since they started selling Ashley Cole to Chelsea.
Usmanov knows this too well

You are making my point for me sir.

with the emboldened, you still don't want to agree that a certain standard was set previously.

A previously serial contender suddenly lowering its standards. If Dangote decides to ride an okada today, does that take away the fact that he's Africa's richest man?


No matter what we say about Wenger, he has made his mark. Three league titles is nothing to sniff at. Even Jose Mourinho hasn't won more than three league titles.
A club builds a big stadium, the second biggest to daye in the premier league, and you still call it a small club.
With all I said earlier, there's no way you can dismiss Arsenal as a small club. Not with their pedigree.


And please do not disrespect me by bringing my age into this. You don't know me. So you have no right to talk the way you are speaking to me. You are being very disrespectful. You have not managed to counter the facts I Put out about Arsenal. And even if I am young, that does not give you the right to disparage me or my opinions especially since I related to you as an equal.

Unfortunately, we live in this prejudiced society where you cannot offer a differing opinion without being disrespected. So I'm going to end this discussion with you.
Believe whatever you want.

omonnakoda:
Arsenal won stuff yes,that did not make them a big club.

A club that consistently sells it's best players is not a big club
A big club is Juventus that was relegated to Series B and kept all its top players
A club is big because of its support base and history not by billionaire inflation. What happens to Chelsea when Abramovich dies?
Chelsea and Man City are winning stuff that does not make them big clubs

The buck stops on the table of those employing Wenger

Why are we blaming Buhari and not the security chiefs for security failings
because he can fire them

They alone know why they have not fired him and they are responsible not Wenger. .
It is convenient for them to keep Wenger there as a scapegoat while they continue ripping off their fans. Their tickets are the most expensive and it is clear they are in it to make money and not win.
From that perspective Wenger is a very good manager and they love him
Who is responsible for lack of ambition? The manager? No.
The owners show ambition by spending and buying. Arsenal are a selling club.

That Arsenal adopts a selling policy does not make it a small club.
Arsenal ticks the boxes for s big club.
Do they make revenue in hundreds of millions of pounds? Yes
Do they have a big stadium with over 60,000 capacity usually filled to the brim? Yes
Do they have a huge global following? Yes
Do they have a history as regards titles? Yes, even though in relation to club's likeUnited and Liverpool they may be inferior but compared to City Chelsea Spurs their history is more illustrious
Arsenal till last year finished in the top four for 19 consecutive seasons. Let that sink in and wonder if a small club can achieve that feat.
I can go on and on.

When Leicester won the title in 2016 everybody knew it probably was a one off and would most likely never happen again. Arsenal went an unimaginable 49 games unbeaten.

That is why I said you should view things in context. If Arsenal with all the above, a global brand, a top six side, is more content with cup finals then it says a lot about how low standards have fallen.
I do agree that to an extent the board is to blame but Wenger cannot excuse himself. He has since lost the hunger for the game and does not appear motivated anymore to launch an assault for the title, hence the fall back to being reduced to a cup team. He cannot attract top talent anymore to the side and can't even weld together a team that can threaten for the title.

brightalo17:
Arsenal may have not won EPL for years now or even champions league ever before , yet they're still relevant, richer, recognized than some clubs that have won CL before . If you can not allow some to use others failures for justifications then do not also use others success to judge as well .

If liverpool never folded for not winning EPL for many years now, why then do you think Arsenal will fold for the same reason ? So far Arsenal and Wenger are balancing the book which is mostly important for almost every business and football is also a business.

Come use Leicester to compare Arsenal, Man united or even Mancity and liverpool na since they won EPL more recently than those clubs.

Sorry but it's too early in the day to be making dull comparisons.
Arsenal are regular European campaigners, finish in the top four regularly bar last season, have won trophies across board domestically. They have a huge global followership, a 60k+ stadium, and are a top six English side.
You want me to compare that with Leicester City who never did anything tangible till the fairytale of 2016 and haven't done anything since.

If you want to belittle your club by comparing it to ants when it should be walking with lions, that is your problem but don't tell me that Arsenal should be content with cup finals.

Even withLiverpool's title drought they are STILL a big club. Their history alone ensures that.

Lastly if you don't understand my angle don't bother to quote me. Thank you

A40:
How can someone say Hidden One Corner could not dive because of VAR. There is God oo

Bros na so we see am. I thought I was the only one who thinks he is a diver

More savagery

pamcode:
Exhausting themselves where? How many of the top teams went beyond the round of 16. It nothing special but Klopp and Liverpool hasn't won it. If your team didn't win the league it because your team didn't deserve to win it for whatever reason.

Let me even agree with you that none of them did anything in Europe last year.
why then are Chelsea 15 points behind the leaders this year?

Fact: Conte is a fraud and you know it. No need for long talk. It's 2:am in the morning.

See savagery

omonnakoda:
Is Arsenal bigger than Liverpool?
Arsene is not responsible for Arsenal ,he is an employee. Hold his employer responsible

Context. Don't use the failures of others to justify your shortcomings.
Arsenal became a big club. Since the mid 00s they have failed to live up to their billing.
The sameWenger who is central to the club's operations shouldn't be held accountable for the club's decline on the pitch?
Wenger that won the title on three separate occasions can't contend anymore. The buck stops on his table. When he can't get his best players to commit to the club due to lack of ambition and refusing to change with the times, the excuse is that he is an employee. An employee that has been in the job for over 20 years currently in a two year contract.

First Roma deny a Dzeko deal.(Hope still dey for Crouch, Akinfenwa, Yakubu)
Then Arsenal bloodied their noses

What a beautiful day