justlove91:


This is one issue I have with you and adherents of the grail message, why use the bible to back up your point?

The materials in the Bible were borrowed from other religions, cultures and beliefs. They are Open-source. I am sure you have read it from childhood till today and may not know this.

Stop quoting the bible, it's an archaic irrelevant book,

Oh it is very very relevant. This relevance we can classify as Quantitative, Qualitative or both.

Quantitative: When it is quoted to highlight one of the many misleading contents within it as far as more advance information or truth is concerned

Qualitative: When it is quoted to highlight where any of the characters within it is saying something that aligns with truth or facts.

Even if we go with you comment here

it's an archaic irrelevant book,

,I say we can quote it as a way of pointing out the dangers of going with archaic, mundane or misleading information as in " don't be like Mr Paluga who does this and that and today he is wretched". It would be naïve should Mr Paluga begins to rejoice that he is being quoted to back up a gist. His ignorant head is merely on quantity and he feels relevant (which he is quantitively).

Millions for eons believe (without knowing or confirming) that Soul dies and they go to appease this angry deity who lied or is written to have said he can destroy Soul. These Millions form a Quantity.

Very few tow the narrow path of investigating things beyond what they are told or read. The advanced methods of investigation which this thread is about is that of travelling into the heavens without the body like Paul of in the Bible said.

stop giving it relevance by quoting it please

I guess the Old Testament should be detached from the Christian Bible too because the whole of it was lifted from the Bible of another religion (Judaism).

Further, God, Jesus, Paul, Peter and all characters in the New Testament never asked that their acts, speeches and letters they sent to Corinth, Ephesus and all be collected hundreds of years later for it to rule the beliefs of people later on who believes an Igbo or Kalabari man can ever be a Jew by Faith.

So who gathered these letters, notes and another Bible to form the Christian Bible? This is the person I think should be issuing the command not to quote that book, not a Jew who is a Christian that must become a Jew when he became a Christian just so "his Soul" is not destroyed.

Michael547:

So do you now agree that your idea on this thread has nothing to do with the bible?

You answer lies in the first post and video

Michael547:

You should have clearly stated that your idea was not bible based. You kept insisting it was without proof.

I wonder where got that idea that this is a Bible thread

Michael547:

The problem here is that you keep on insisting that the bible supports your idea which you've not been able to prove with it. I have shown you again and again that it does not.

Cheers.

This thread is beyond the bible as you xan see. So do not of necessity need to peg it around the Bible, regardless if we quote it.

Michael547:

Where did paul mention the word 'soul' in that verse?

The Two verses you quoted up there never talked about the eternal punishment of the soul without the body neither did it talk about the casting of the soul without the body into the lake of fire.
You've never pointed out a verse that has the word 'soul'.

You claimed that no one can destroy the soul, can you kindly explain Matthew 10:28 in the screenshot below?
Does that verse say that the soul can be destroyed? Yes or no?

I believe I have made my stance clear regarding then level I admit the Bible as an authority on this subject in my most recent reply to you.

Read it up again please s and see if you think I should go with the Bible or more advanced knowledge.

Cheers.

I think this thread is sponsored by one of those Big-pharma stooges. It could be the IITA or another.

Guys you recall how they brought out a virus and immediately made one mRNA vaccine?

I Believe you must have read the scandal that ensued after Twitter acquisition when Elon brought out the "Twitter Files"


How about Fauci? Didn't he sound and seem innocent as this thread at first?

How big was the campaign that forced even governments to bow down to that almighty force behind COVID?

It's all a frenzy at reaching your genes!
Food is one way they are using here. They have other means like advanced radio signals...

They can pollute or manipulate the weather just so famines occur and their GMO comes to the "rescue". Like Plandemic, Like Weather manipulation, like Mind Control, Like online Propaganda Teams.

Michael547:

Fine.....this is the same reason I cannot agree that Paul meant the 'soul'.

He meant what the ? The oesophagus?

wSo I would still need you to prove to me from the Bible that the soul cannot die.

Mathew 25:46
"And these will go to everlasting punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

Description of The kind of punishment:


Revelation 20:15

"And anyone not found written in the book of life was cast into a lake of fire"

For how long: Mathew 25:46.

This gives us two sets of people. Each living eternally with two distinct conditions.

I went through this laborious route just so I have given you proof that Soul does not die nor is it destroyed-- albeit (pun intended) from a very very mundane source on that subject which is the Bible.

You must understand the Bible as far as life, death, OBE, Soul Travel etc is concerned is not an authority on the subject. This means it does not necessarily stand as a proof nor be used to prove anything beyond the undeniable fact that ink, paper and interests went into it.

You must understand that any reference I make of the bible is mostly to help you tether to what ever information I am talking about especially of course when that biblical text aligns with reality or established fact that is of course subject to more information.

Michael547:

Paul said he did not know whether it was with the body or not.
Now what is the 'thing inside the body' that you are referring to? Because nowhere in that verse did paul refer to a 'thing inside the body'.

I to in line with the current circumstance do not know what that thing is, Paul however implies one can go to heaven with it or without it.

Michael547:

Good. When Paul was talking about the idea of a person leaving his body, where did paul indicate in that verse that he was referring to an isolated entity called 'soul' as the one making the journey?

Great this means the following:


In the body: Body and any other 'thing' within

Out of it: Any 'thing' within minus Body

Looking at that verse again, can't we also say that Paul was saying that it was possible that a person could go to the third heaven with his body?

Yes he as saying it could have been with his body, and also without it leaving us at what seems to be a state of limbo as to which.

So the question is to you is: Which one was it? Did the person went in flesh up to the third?

Michael547:

I never claimed every event in the bible can be scientifically proven.

Now you're talking. Please keep this in mind always moving forward so that when next you ask me a question as in the attached screenshot, you do not think you have boxed me as you would like to think.

I am telling you that the idea that humans have souls that can be conscious outside the body is neither backed by the bible or science. If you don't agree, show me where the bible or science says so?

Okay, So let the discuss begin then.

I am going to give you a quote from the Bible which was about an experience Paul partially to some people in a land called Corinth.

It is gotten from 2 Corinthians 12:2.


International Version:

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows."

Question Brief: This is Paul talking about the idea of a person leaving his body to explore places.

Question: What do you or would you make of what Paul is talking g about here?

Thanks

Michael547:

The above statements you've made are either recorder in the bible

I know they were recorded, it was from the Bible I heard of it first.

Here, you sound like if they are recorded in the Bible, it automatically shows us the witness of how Mary got pregnant without sleeping with a man.

or are scientifically proven.

Okay. Give me the following "scientifically provens" :

1: Moses being given 10 commandments

2: Mary's 'auto' pregnancy

3: John's Prophecy

Etc

Where does science or the bible teach that human have souls that could leave the body and be conscious and come back to the body?

In several Biblical scriptures and Scientific Journals, works and experiments.

Michael547:

What evidences have you provided other than so called personal testimonies of yourself and people who claimed their soul went out of their body and back without any witnesses to such scenarios?

1: What is your proof that you have dreamt before? Who are your "witnesses to such scenarious"?

2: Moses said God gave him commandments to the Israelites, where is the "witnesses to such scenario"?

3: John claimed he saw the future and wrote it down which the compilers of the Bible in Rome decided to add it to the Bible. Who is there watching to confirm for us beyond John's claims?

4: Mary claimed no one slept with her yet she got pregnant, how can this be and who are the witness?

I think after we deal with the above questions we both will help ourselves better.

elated177:
Chieveboy, your discussion with him is completely on a different lane. You can only strip people who do not know what they believe in of their faith. You cannot do that to someone who knows what he has seen, felt and tasted and confirmed to be true and eternal. So, forget about the reaction of others, as if that has ever stopped you, and attend to the questions. Unless, of course, you are not ready and willing to do so.

By the way, I am not a Christian.

Does he sound like someone who "knows" what he believes? Not to talk of "tasting" and "confirming" any of such to be "true" and "eternal"?

Would you say "Knowing, Tasting", and thereby "believing" can ever occur after reading?

...someone who would rather be pegged on crystallises as found on reliance on written texts in the book that neither is audio-visual and is static, thereby lacks & is incapable of presenting multidimensional reality (truth) beyond the 2D canvas would wear me down, and sensing this, I resorted to what I resorted to.

When I mentioned "stripping people of their beliefs", while this is against spiritual law to do so, this may not necessarily refer to him given the crystallises.

While someone in that condition means nothing new enters the consciousness--of the person's own doing, it becomes a dual effort in futility giving them tidbits of information from their accepted book of knowledge and also from advanced information in public domain. More exhausting is their capacity so far at assimilation and retention.

I called the biblical information "tidbits" because from Genesis to Revelation, the Christian Bible is not even at the top of its game on information about Jesus Christ and other characters of worth. Their are several far more and indepth info on Jesus out there than in the Bible, but who is to bell the cat from crystallises?

The Christian Bible is a book where the second section is where Paul, Peter et all made communications to and about friends, family and foe, and then a set of people in Europe hundreds of years later felt this can be collected, compiled, edited (for effect) and then combining it with the Holy Bible of another religion (Judaism) to form a book which a hundred Nairalanders will not have us discuss truth without going through the heads of Paul and Peter so much that our friend is asking if a fact went through the Bible first. Hilarious and amazing to say the least.

Even the pronunciations made by the Paul's and Peters, they don't really 'grasp'.

Michael547:

Lol.....You've not taken a stand....you have an idea which I have shown you that the bible does not support. You claim that other part of the Bible support the idea. Show me where. You claim a certain verse says so. I have read the verse and I don't see how it does. Post the verse here let everyone see it whether it's true or false, You've refused to do so. So why should I believe you and not believe the bible?

Please do not believe me. I am not here to seek blind faith and belief. I have also spoken of going beyond belief earlier.

Michael547:

You call the bible 'my bible' and say that the bible is not a finite authority but you've never ceased to quote from it as an authority ever since we've been discussing. Do you know any book that has finite authority apart from the Bible? If yes, mention.

This is exactly what I am talking of...

I had previously addressed this issue of whether the Bible is false or not.

elated177:
Chieveboy, am I take it that you no longer want to have a discourse?

Of course I want to,
I am however unable to without the possibility of stripping people of their beliefs in which they are likely to react negatively.

For instance, the Michael guy is already using the "Oga" appellation to address me. I know the energy behind that even if not from the Nigerian context of use.

Secondly, it feels very labourous to be begin to parse this idea to him that his Bible especially isn't really a work of finite authority in matters of History which it primarily is nor is it in spirituality, mysticism and occult knowledge as it's subscribers like to think.

Michael547:

Ok....where did Paul say that his soul left his body to the third heaven in that verse?

In the same verse.

Michael547:

Please where did Paul say that he himself was taken to third heaven? Go and read that verse that you are quoting again. Stop paraphrasing. Learn to quote a verse.

In that verse

Michael547:

What verse have you quoted that shows the soul survives the body at death?
What you've been doing here is just paraphrasing verses up and down to suit your idea without mentioning those verses.

The one I quote about Paul taken to the third heaven

Michael547:

Oga show me where the bible says that the soul survives death or where it says the soul can temporarily leave the body and come back. Till now you've not quoted one verse.

I did quite a verse. Please do go back and check. Thanks

elated177:
Chieveboy, what do you think is at the end of subsurface? Do you or anyone know the depth?

"SubSsurface" is a relative term which I would presume you ascribed to the edge of the universe?

elated177:
Where is outer space, chieveboy?

The other side of the bounds of where man decided is the limit of their 'atmosphere'...

elated177:
Who is the Holy Spirit, chieveboy?

This is the 'voice' of the Supreme Deity. It is IT's 'essence' as a matter of saying. IT is what got 'individualized' and is known as Soul. Soul is made of the Supreme Deity but not IT. It is raw power.

A divine chemistry of this essence earthlings call Holy Spirit is what brings about all the elements and chemicals from the periodic chart known to man and those yet unknown to Matter itself.

The Holy Spirit is the 'source code' of what we call intelligence and consciousness. This is when IT can be referred to as a "Who", else we use IT to denote immeasurability. It Jesus, Mohammed, Shekau, etc but not 'necessarily' those.

If the above are confusing, its what you get when reducing much advanced stuff to human language. No words...

elated177:
Chieveboy, some questions.

Who is the supreme deity?

The Supreme Deity for lack of word is the 'Prime Mover'. The Totality of all things that is nameless and formless from which all things issued whose only quality is LOVE.

IT is different from Jehovah or Allah, Brahm of the Hindus and all.

elated177:
It appears you don't believe the story of Noah and the flood? How does the existence of red people negate the story, chieveboy?

Isn't it obvious already that an alien race exists beyond Noah's kind (as the Native Americans)?

While an apocalypse might have occurred with Noah, claiming the whole earth was destroyed is actually rather apt for a people of very little information of the globe at the time compared to us now. The birds used instead of satellites or drones are an example of this.

If a ship can contain even just the genes of all species on earth, then Noah could not have built any.

Michael547:

Lol....so you decide which part of the Bible is a lie and which one is true?

Yes, as I told you here

It is not like it is a scientifically or factually-binding book of knowledge in the sense you construe it even though it holds several factual information.

. So you see, you cannot even take the time to read for understanding or keeping things to mind. You target is argument.

So apostle Paul having a vision means his soul went out of his body? If yes, where does the Bible say so?

A simple tip is to quote my text, at least it will help with the retention issue...I suggest you go back and read what I wrote again.

Oga show me where the bible says that the soul goes to hell fire without the body na.

What does this even mean?

Michael547:

You claimed that Ezekie 18:4 was a lie.
So why should I believe your own reference to the Bible or your video?

The emboldened. It says nothing is admissible as far as your head is concerned neither did you show prospect if we are to present scientific work on the subject.

Talking about me saying Ezekiel was a lie (which I did), if my memory serves me right, I spoke about Paul telling you about visiting heaven without dying thereby negating the idea I meant the whole bible was a lie.

So you see, you are your own ignorance.

Where does the Bible teach that soul without the body cries in hell?
Please show me the verse.

I see...

You do not even know much about the Bible...

Michael547:

Oga I have showed you religiously with a religious book that the soul dies.

And I 'showed you' religiously with a video that soul never dies.

The only thing you've done on this thread is to tell me to trust you with your words.

Quote where asked you or attach screenshot.

You've provided no evidence whatsoever.

Here is one using one you are familiar with:

According to the Bible, believers and sinners are going to:

1: Live for ever with God

2: Live forever in hell crying and gnashing their teeths.

Respectively of course.

Michael547:

Oga your submissions in this thread is religious and not scientific.

It will be daybreak when you realize the meaning of the word "scientific"...

Show me where scientist proves scientifically that humans have a soul that does not die when they die.

...by that time, you will properly seek to redefine the emboldened.

After you're done, I may chose to admit and indulge you on 'science'...

To proceed, please confirm you have provided us with what looks like or is intended to be a "religious evidence" that humans have a soul that dies and you are now looking for a 'scientific evidence'?

Michael547:

You mean it is a scientific fact that people die and see the other side and come back to their body?

Please what scientific research proves that?

You can do better. Re-read my post, get the information I suggested you get, then see if you really need to ask this question.

The idea is ensure we're not casting things on certain biblical verses

Michael547:

Why have you proven this to only yourself?
Why is this your feat not a public knowledge to several people who can testify?

I see...

A simply widening of the horizons of your search or research will open a new vista of information for you. There are hundreds, if not thousands of scientific research and investigation on people who died, saw the other side and returned to their bodies. Just use Google...

Rhetorically: If you can reach any of the people from your search (on Google), try convincing them with a book written by people who didn't have same experience as them, who at most do not even know what they are talking about beyond being told or reading about it, that people really "die". Good luck with that.

Lol.....so aside the bible, we should just believe what you say right?

I am not sure where I said you should believe my experience. I believe I told you to prove for your self didn't I?

Michael547:

Lol.....so you mean there is no reliable source of this your information, you are actually banking on hearsay?

I see...
May be I should have told you I have proven this for myself countless times that I find it odd to hear someone saying Soul can be destroyed.

I thought giving you clues would open up the consciousness.

Please where does the Bible teach that soul is indestructible by Jehovah?

Again: If the Bible was a road that someone told me no vehicle passes, what I will do is look to the right, look to the left and then look right again. Aha, I see a vehicle passing...