₦airaland Forum

Here the elighted protestant know it all. You just interpret it your way. You ask people to pray for you, yet if mention of Mary is made you get all bleeped up fatty.

But the tax the church forces on its congregation will last eh

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus shows us a curious relationship between Christianity and suffering.
Consider it pure joy...whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you will be mature and complete, not lacking anything. We also rejoice in our suffering because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character, character, hope.

As emerson said about war and suffering:
War educates the senses, calls into action the will, perfects the physical constitution, brings men into such swift and close collision in critical moments that man measures man.

The cause of peace is not the cause of cowardice. If peace is sought to be defended or preserved for the safety of the luxurious and the timid, it is a sham. War is better, and the peace will be broken. If peace is to be maintained, it must be by brave men, who have come up to the same height as the hero, namely, the will to carry their life in their hand, and stake it at any instant for their principle, but who have gone one step beyond the hero, and will not seek another man's life;—men who have, by their intellectual insight, or else by their moral elevation, attained such a perception of their own intrinsic worth, that they do not think property or their own body a sufficient good to be saved by such dereliction of principle as treating a man like a sheep.

Stories like that will dull your mind. One time some pentecostal said I was the devil. I never got shaking however

Let's say thing straight here.

I will talk about the Catholic practice of asking Mary, saints and angels to pray for us. The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21).

And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:Cool. Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

I would be willing to bet they do not even examine the prayers we use to 'petition' Mary. Have you ever heard of the word 'intercession'? It is when we ask someone to pray for us. Lets look at a few Bible verses...

Rom 15:30, "...help me by your prayers to GOD for me."
Col 1:9, "This is why we too have been praying for you unceasingly."
1Thes 3:10, "Night and day we pray more and more..."
2Thes 1:11, "To this end we pray always for you."
2Thes 3:1, "In conclusion brethren, pray for us..."
Jam 5:16, "...and pray for one another that you may be saved."
Rev 8:3-4 "...that he may offer it with the prayers of all the saints..."

The Bible is asking you to pray for one another. Have you ever asked someone to pray for you? Have you ever told someone you will pray for them? Why then, when the name of Mary is introduced, is it not to be asked of her? Was she not a created being like all the rest of us? Why can we ask everyone else to pray for us, but we can't ask it of Mary? Does it not stand to reason that her Son would listen to her and grant her requests?

He turned water into wine at Cana just by Mary making a remark, "They have no wine", Jn 2:3. He was subjected to her in Lk 2:51, and no doubt for many years until His ministry started at age 30. He listens to her now, just as He did then. She must have a lot more influence with Him than any of us do, since she is His mother.

Let us see what Catholics pray.

Have you ever listened to the words of the most used Marian prayer of all, the Hail Mary?

*** "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." ***
This is nothing more than the salutation of Gabriel in Luke 1:28.

*** "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb (Jesus)." ***
That is Elizabeth's greeting to Mary in Lk 1:42.

***"Holy Mary, mother of GOD." ***
She is a saint which makes her holy, and she is the Mother of GOD, because Elizabeth calls her the 'Mother of Our Lord' in Lk 1:43. Also if you take Jn 1:1 "...and the Word was GOD', and add it to Jn 1:14, "...and the Word was made flesh", GOD was made flesh, and who was His mother? Mary!

*** "Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen." ***
This is nothing more than petitioning Mary to PRAY FOR US, just like in the Bible verses I presented. Do we 'pray to' Mary, or are we only petitioning her to pray for us?

Now the next question is, 'Yes, but it is repetitious (the Rosary) and that is forbidden by scripture'. (Mt 6:7)

OK, look at the entries listed above which have the asterisk (*) in front of them.

Are not Col 1:9, "This is why we have been praying for you unceasingly...", 1Thes 3:10, "Night and day we pray more and more...", and 2Thes 1:11, "To this end we pray always for you...", repetitious? Is this one of those so called 'Bible Conflicts' you hear about from time to time?

No, not at all. The answer is that the Bible refers to two types of prayer repetition 'Vain', in the manner of heathens, and 'Useful', NOT in the manner of heathens.

The Rosary is not vain repetition. Here is a list of some in each category that you can check in your Bible.

(V) 1King 18:25-29, (U) Isa 6:3, (U) Dan 3:52-90, (V) *Mt 6:7, (U) Mt *26:44, (U) *Lk 6:12, (U) Lk 18:1,9-14,*21:36, (U)*Col 1:9, (U) 1Thes 3:10,5:17, (U) *Jam 5:16, (U) **Rev 4:8

One final note:
Many non-Catholics have the false belief that praying to "dead" people is useless. This is a mis-interpretation of what Holy Scripture teaches us, for the Blessed Virgin Mary and others who have gone on before us are not dead but live forever.

The Scriptures tell us that we pray to God through Jesus in the Holy Spirit -- this is Saint Paul's great insight into the nature of specifically Christian prayer.

Theologically, Catholics believe that if our prayer is directed to God the Father, we are simultaneously praying to the Son and to the Holy Spirit; if our prayer is directed primarily to Jesus, we are simultaneously praying to the Father and to the Spirit; and if our prayer is directed primarily to the Holy Spirit we are also praying to the Father and the Son.

Since the Holy Trinity is a divine community of Persons, prayer directed to One of the divine Persons -- Father, Son, Spirit -- reaches the other divine Persons; the Father shares everything with the Son and the Spirit; the Son shares everything with the Father and the Spirit; the Holy Spirit shares everything with the Father and the Son.

So, yes, Catholics pray to Jesus as the Second Person of the Most Blessed Trinity.

We have many ways, as Catholics, of talking about this aspect of our prayer.

To be a Christian means, among other things, accepting Jesus into your life. Mary literally accepted Jesus into her life for when she said "Yes!" to the archangel's invitation and the Holy Spirit overshadowed her, Jesus made His home in her womb. So, for Catholics Mary is the First Christian, the first human being to accept Jesus Christ into her life.

As the First Christian, she is, so the speak, the Prototype of what being a Christian means. In that role, we Catholics feel that Mary has something like a "first among equals" role as exemplar for us.

So, we Catholics feel very comfortable going to her in prayer for guidance and help since she walked this road of living the Christian life before anybody else. When we pray to her, we are, in a sense, asking for her wisdom and insight about how to live our Christian lives more perfectly; since she's already done it, we look to her for example, direction and guidance.

Another way that we Catholics think of our practice of praying to Mary is the following. We are perfectly comfortable as Christians asking other Christians for prayer support when we are confronted by special needs, crises, or stressful circumstances. Calling up a Christian friend and saying, "Please pray for me, I'm going through a really tough time" makes complete sense to us.

Christians also believe that death is not the end of life. Death is a 'door' through which we pass, as we move from one room in our Father's Mansion, the room of this life, to another room in the Lord's House, which is the room of eternal life. The dead in Christ are surely alive!

Mary, as the First Christian, is, then, alive in Christ -- sharing the glory of heaven with her Son and all those to whom God has given eternal life.

So, when we Catholics pray to Mary, we are simply saying that since she is alive in Christ in the glory of heaven, we can go to her, asking for her prayerful support -- in much the same way that we would ask a Christian in our Church community to support us with his or her prayers.

The fact that Mary is alive in life-beyond-death in no way minimizes her ability to pray. In fact, we Catholics would say that since Mary is with her Son, her prayers have a special kind of efficacy and power.

Another way that Catholics talk about praying to Mary builds on the idea of a special bond between a parent and a child, and particularly on the bond between a Mother and her Son. In many human relationships, a mother has a special role in the life of her children. Mary, being such a magnificent mother, and Jesus, being the Perfect Son, surely had a marvelous and ultimately close relationship. When we Catholics pray to Mary, we are simply assuming that the closeness between this Mother and her divine Son continues in life-beyond-death, and we are asking this special and wonderful Mother to speak to her beloved and divine Son on our behalf.

A last word about the way Catholics see our prayer to Mary: When we pray to Mary, we Catholics are, essentially, saying, "Blessed Mary, you are living in the very Presence of God, would you please take my request, my prayer, and put it before God Who chose you to be the Mother of His Son?" We are acknowledging that, as the Bible says, all generations call her "blessed" precisely because God offered her a unique role as the Mother of Jesus and because she accepted God's invitation. That intimacy which Mary had with God continues in the glory of heaven. When we Catholics pray to her, we are simply saying, "Please ask God to hear our prayers now...and at the hour of our death!"

Does a Catholic HAVE to pray to Mary? No, we don't HAVE to pray to Mary. But, praying to Mary is one of the greatest gifts the Catholic Church has to offer us -- so why in the world wouldn't we accept this magnificent gift?!? While we don't have to pray to Mary, most Catholics WANT to pray to her because she is special to God, special to God's Son, and she, therefore, very special to us! We never 'worship' Mary -- "worship" is what we give to God alone. But we do have a very deep love and a very high regard for this blessed woman!

Sometimes, when we pray to Mary, we talk to her. Sometimes, when we pray to Mary, we just think about her and her Son. When we use the Rosary, ...

Why do Catholics pray to Mary? Is it not better to pray directly to God? Why do we call Mary the Mother of God and not the Mother of Jesus? ...

Protestants could then say, in effect, "even though our beliefs conflict at every turn, and therefore cannot really be true, just look at the even GREATER untruths that exist in Catholicism! Therefore we are in a better place." This argument is about as close as any Protestant can come to justifying the plague of denominations which the original Protestant rebellion spawned, in direct opposition to the will of Christ, Who stated His divine intent that all Christians would be ONE, even as He and His Father are ONE. Protestants therefore do not wage their attacks on traditional Christian truth out of spite or hatred, or even jealousy, but rather out of a desperate quest for a legitimacy which is objectively lacking in their religious tradition. The bizarre accusations they bring against God's Church - worshipping statues, making human beings equal to God, adopting pagan beliefs, etc. might possibly legitimize such a rebellion, if any of it were true.

Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. ...

Those were nice examples, listen to this now.
A pastor performing a baptism was electrocuted inside his church after grabbing a microphone while partially submerged.
The Rev. Kyle Lake, 33, was standing in water in a baptismal at University Baptist Church when he was electrocuted.
Pastors at University Baptist Church routinely use a microphone during baptisms, Jamie Dudley said.
"He was grabbing the microphone so everyone could hear," she said. "It's the only way you can be loud enough."

There are six basic beliefs shared by Muslims:

1. Belief in God (Allah), the one and only one worthy of all worship (tawhid).
2. Belief in all the prophets (nabi) and messengers (rasul) sent by God. (See Prophets of Islam)
3. Belief in the books (kutub) sent by God:

The Suhuf-i-Ibrahim (Scrolls of Abraham)
The Tawrat sent to Musa (Moses)
The Zabur sent to Daud (David)
The Injil sent to Isa (Jesus)
The Qur'an sent to Muhammad

4. Belief in the Angels (mala'ika).
5. Belief in the Day of Judgement (qiyama) and in the life after death (heaven and hell).
6. Belief in Fate (predestination) (qadar)1

The Muslim creed in English:

"I testify that there is no god but Allah Almighty; and I testify that Muhammad),(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), is His Messenger."
"I believe in Allah; and in His Angels; and in His Scriptures; and in His Messengers; and in The Final Day; and in Fate, that All things are from Allah, and Resurrection after death be Truth.

Sounds good.

What do Muslims think about Jesus?
Is the family important to Muslims?
How do Muslims view death?
What does Islam say about war?


Tell us man .

Well Nazis hated them much more and they surely were not muslims, on the contrary.

Realize that NOT taking the risk to meet a man is actually a BIGGER risk in the LONG RUN of
your overall life. If you risk NOT meeting him, you'll never know what might have happened, and if
you let it become a habit, it will keep you from realizing ALL your dreams in life.

Think about it... in any given situation, YOU have the opportunity to make a "free bet": Your
bet is you walking over and starting a conversation.

Possible loss: Getting turned down.

Possible gain: Use that creative imagination.

You do the math.

This is like going to Las Vegas and having a casino say to you, "OK, you can bet all day long
as much as you want. If you win, you keep all the money. If you lose, you lose nothing."

I don't think one should punish her sons and daughters when they get back to UK. When politics and police get into this they tend to impose corrupt idealogies. I mean, when you expect them to do, leave her to die alone when she needed them most. Most inhuman act of all.

Why a retired GP chose to end her life seven years before time

Anne Turner was determined to die before she was incapacitated by disease
ONE hundred letters addressed in Anne Turner’s distinctive hand, sealed in identical ivory envelopes, were posted to her relatives, friends and former colleagues yesterday.

When opened they will reveal farewell messages, explaining how and why Dr Turner chose to end her life with the help of Dignitas, a Swiss euthanasia clinic, on the eve of her 67th birthday. Her poignant personal goodbyes were preceded by a powerful public appeal to the Government to allow assisted suicide in Britain.

Interviewed before she flew to Zurich to die, Dr Turner said that she was taking her life sooner than she wanted because she had to be well enough to travel. Nor did she want her illness to get so bad that she could not swallow the barbiturates that would kill her.

Her progressive supranuclear palsy (PSP), an incurable degenerative disease, was diagnosed in 2004. It was in its early stages and she could still walk unaided, eat and communicate. The PSP Association says that patients live for an average of seven years with the disease, but Dr Turner, whose husband Jack died from a degenerative illness in 2002, said that she was “resolute” about her decision.

“I know that people say that I look well, but I’m not,” she said. After a failed suicide attempt in October she contacted Dignitas for help. Growing unsteadiness had resulted in several nasty falls and fractures.

Dr Turner said: “I think it is very, very important that people have the opportunity to do in this country what I’m going to do. I feel strongly that assisted suicide should become legal in this country.

“In order to ensure that I am able to swallow the medication that will kill me, I have to go to Switzerland before I am totally incapacitated and unable to travel. If I knew that when things got so bad, I would be able to request assisted suicide in Britain, then I would not have to die before I am completely ready to do so.”

Before leaving her hotel yesterday Dr Turner added: “I have been forced to die in a strange country, not at home.” At 12.35 GMT Dr Turner, who was born in Harrogate, North Yorkshire, became the 42nd Briton to die with the help of Dignitas. She drank the barbiturates in a flat in Zurich owned by the clinic and slipped into a coma, dying 25 minutes later.

Her three children, Sophie Pandit, 41, Edward Turner, 39 and Jessica Wharton, 37, were holding her hands when she died. The family flew to Switzerland on Sunday. During their last days together they attended a Beethoven concert, enjoyed a boat trip on Lake Zurich and toured the city in its famous old trams. On Monday night they opened a bottle of champagne at dinner and had “a good cry”.

Dr Turner’s children will face a police investigation when they return home. Mr Turner said that during his mother’s last two hours they “chatted together, sang some songs and joked”. After Dr Turner’s disease was diagnosed she told her children that she would take her own life rather than become dependent on carers.

For many years she had been a member of the campaigning organisation Dying in Dignity — which changed its name from the Voluntary Euthanasia Society on Monday — and had watched her husband’s degeneration from a similar illness. She knew that Dudley Moore, the comedian and actor, had suffered with PSP. Dr Turner said: “I didn’t want to end up like Jack, and with PSP the prognosis is much worse. I do not want to end up like Dudley Moore. H e could not walk, talk or even blink at the end.” Dr Turner ran a family planning clinic in Bath but retired at 58 to care for her husband, who was also a GP in the city. She said that she had taken mental health advice before deciding to go ahead with her suicide. Her children supported her.

Before her mother’s death Mrs Pandit said: “Having seen the way our father deteriorated, seeing him corpse-like, unable to swallow, and yet more incapacitated every time I came home . . . it’s a relief to think she is not going to have to suffer like that.”

Mr Turner emerged from the flat a short time after his mother died. He said: “She would have found it a lot easier if she could have done it in the UK. We would have liked to have had her around for longer, of course, but she has got to die some time and she has got to die when it’s right for her.”

Before her death Dr Turner said she was not afraid of her choice. She said: “I don’t think death has ever held any fear for me. I haven’t got faith, I’m a humanist. I’ve always felt that dying is like going to sleep.”

A spokesman for the Christian Medical Fellowship said: “This tragic case involves a lady in the early stages of an illness which is not usually fatal.”

So, what's wrong with Pentecost? I think the most important fault within the entire movement is the religious power and authority most of these denominations and congregations instill within the local pastor -- something that is pandemic within both Pentecostalism and its spiritual descendent, the Charismatic movement. The local pastor has Pope-like powers over the local church, and many Pentecostal/Charismatic pastors rule over their local assemblies like virtual dictators -- many only having church "boards" filled with "yes-men" to satisfy tax authorities. In many of these congregations, the pastor answers to no one -- to no committee, not to the church at large, and not even -- in many cases -- to the denominational organization that credentials him. He is an authority unto himself and to his God, and many Pentecostal/Charismatic/non-denominational church-goers literally believe that his words uttered in sermons, prophecies, etc., are the literal words of God -- as surely as most Christians believe the Bible to be.

Yeah, sure. Having said that, I restate my conviction that many congregations within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements (and within pseudo-Pentecostal "non-denominational" churches) are emotionally manipulative, psychologically deceptive, and in some cases, spiritually (or religiously) abusive. These manipulations take place in the form of (but are not limited to) "expressive worship," "prophecies," "interpretation of tongues," "miraculous healing," and the "rebuking of demons (exorcisms)." These events create the perception that "God is in this place," which not only electrifies those in attendance, but it also "validates" the legitimacy of the ministry and their actions.

The true is that the nature behind many of these "supernatural occurrences," are highly manipulative tools used to create obedience and adherence to local pastoral authority. These "events" may be dismissed as a circus sideshow by some, but are integral to the movement at large -- they are the foundation, the very cement that holds many of these churches together -- and allow for remarkable and shocking abuses of power to take place in so-called "houses of God."

Many within these faiths cannot even comprehend the situation in which they exist, or the abuses that they have deadened themselves to tolerate. The truth being that in traditional Christian faiths, church isn't about tolerating manipulations, abusive pastors, sideshow behaviors, or restrictive legalism -- it's about expressing your love for a Savior, receiving spiritual nourishment, and . . . above all . . . feeling safe and loved. How can anyone feel "safe and loved" when they're constantly in fear of losing their salvation, or not getting the "total" blessings that God has to offer (as many Pentecostals/Charismatics do -- regardless of whether or not current one is will admit to it)? Many of these people will say that "Pentecostals are human," and that anything that happens in their churches could happen at a church down the street. The sad reality is that these things often happen in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches (or in other denominations commonly characterized as cults), and only rarely occur in churches of other mainstream, orthodox, or evangelical persuasions.

Or help each other because there is much we can learn from each other. They are not all completely wrong, catholic and pentecostal, they both have good things. That's what love is all about. Went to some charicmatic and pentecostal churches, and I don't think we should be treated like this. One has to take the time to get to know us.

Have to go now. Have a church leader meeting and after off to dance class. Have nice evening

And don't forget to tell me your progress and how it goes. And good luck

Was not saying you should act stupid because that will make you shallow. Cheeky does not mean doing stupid thing to get attention. That is very childlish. I was saying about behaving like a woman you ought to be, so don't push it too far girl or you will get the opposite effect. People will avoid you

cheeky to teachers? What you mean? Depends what you say and do. Take care not to exceed the threshold too much or you might get in trouble.

Just put up the attitude you don't care what others think. If they have a problem with that, it is not your problem right. Of course right. It's they who are losing out. And I tell you, you'll get men at your feet in no time. Why don't you start taking dancing classes. It's fun.

I tell you how to overcome shyness. Imagine them naked and you'll be laughing all the time

Make yourself interesting, cheerful and be cheeky and men will come to you. You don't need to go to them.

She can plan to go somewhere exciting or go someplace and ask that if someone wants to join her they are welcome if they want to. And if not, who cares right. And then ask him too, If he says he has other things to do, you just say that he will be missing all the fun, and go. Simple.

I think she needs to believe in herself more. And anyway I would not base my life only if I am able to get him or not. He is just any man.

I am not saying she goes to him, but she has to do something to catch his attention. Else she will just see him being snatched by another chic, whoever that may be. According to me, noone cares if she gets him or not, but she does I think.

And who says Catholics do not do that. Maybe you like the way you are used to do things. That does not make others wrong. You always like this or is it just dislike of Catholics.

Sometimes God is NOT interested in your convictions but in your attitudes.

Embaressed? I never get embarassed when I ask a girl even though people are near her. They even give me their details.

You ask, "Why would an all-loving, all-knowing God allow people to experience pain and suffering?" Pain is a problem because our finite, human minds selfishly believe that pain-free lives would prove that God loves us.

I am not arguing that pain is not painful. Pain hurts. I am only trying to show that the old Christian doctrine that being made perfect through suffering is not incredible. To prove it palatable is beyond my design. We are reminded that we are not the center of the universe and that suffering is God's will in preparing the believer for heaven and for the full weight of glory that awaits him there. Many of us naively wish that God had designed a "less glorious and less arduous destiny".

I think she is a supermodel or something. You want them off, say you have not shaved your legs for three months. One time ago I did not believe a girl who said that. I learned my lesson .