₦airaland Forum

Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
It is not what the Bible says, it's what you think the Bible says. Go back to school.

You acting like a sissy. Stand up and act like a man and do not let her use sexual weapons against you to get her way. The next time she tries for sex, refuse.

I'm thinking, so much money blowing bastards around.

Ok he has a brother, so what?

Right now this young lady may not care that much what her future husband believes but one day she may become closer to God and may become uncomfortable with some of the pagan/animist beliefs of the Catholic church. If this happens she will experience such pain that no one can fully explain to her right now to help her comprehend it. I have been their I would not recommend this kind of mix marriage even to an enemy. It is too painful to explain. Love alone cannot keep a marriage going.

Bleep YOU and your prejudice

Let's say thing straight here.

I will talk about the Catholic practice of asking Mary, saints and angels to pray for us. The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus in Psalm 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21).

And in Psalm 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2)

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:. Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

Jesus himself warned us not to mess with small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven." (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man, Jesus is the only Mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1-4), including those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

I would be willing to bet they do not even examine the prayers we use to 'petition' Mary. Have you ever heard of the word 'intercession'? It is when we ask someone to pray for us. Lets look at a few Bible verses...

Rom 15:30, "...help me by your prayers to GOD for me."
Col 1:9, "This is why we too have been praying for you unceasingly."
1Thes 3:10, "Night and day we pray more and more..."
2Thes 1:11, "To this end we pray always for you."
2Thes 3:1, "In conclusion brethren, pray for us..."
Jam 5:16, "...and pray for one another that you may be saved."
Rev 8:3-4 "...that he may offer it with the prayers of all the saints..."

The Bible is asking you to pray for one another. Have you ever asked someone to pray for you? Have you ever told someone you will pray for them? Why then, when the name of Mary is introduced, is it not to be asked of her? Was she not a created being like all the rest of us? Why can we ask everyone else to pray for us, but we can't ask it of Mary? Does it not stand to reason that her Son would listen to her and grant her requests?

He turned water into wine at Cana just by Mary making a remark, "They have no wine", Jn 2:3. He was subjected to her in Lk 2:51, and no doubt for many years until His ministry started at age 30. He listens to her now, just as He did then. She must have a lot more influence with Him than any of us do, since she is His mother.

Let us see what Catholics pray.

Have you ever listened to the words of the most used Marian prayer of all, the Hail Mary?

*** "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." ***
This is nothing more than the salutation of Gabriel in Luke 1:28.

*** "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb (Jesus)." ***
That is Elizabeth's greeting to Mary in Lk 1:42.

***"Holy Mary, mother of GOD." ***
She is a saint which makes her holy, and she is the Mother of GOD, because Elizabeth calls her the 'Mother of Our Lord' in Lk 1:43. Also if you take Jn 1:1 "...and the Word was GOD', and add it to Jn 1:14, "...and the Word was made flesh", GOD was made flesh, and who was His mother? Mary!

*** "Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen." ***
This is nothing more than petitioning Mary to PRAY FOR US, just like in the Bible verses I presented. Do we 'pray to' Mary, or are we only petitioning her to pray for us?

Now the next question is, 'Yes, but it is repetitious (the Rosary) and that is forbidden by scripture'. (Mt 6:7)

OK, look at the entries listed above which have the asterisk (*) in front of them.

Are not Col 1:9, "This is why we have been praying for you unceasingly...", 1Thes 3:10, "Night and day we pray more and more...", and 2Thes 1:11, "To this end we pray always for you...", repetitious? Is this one of those so called 'Bible Conflicts' you hear about from time to time?

No, not at all. The answer is that the Bible refers to two types of prayer repetition 'Vain', in the manner of heathens, and 'Useful', NOT in the manner of heathens.

The Rosary is not vain repetition. Here is a list of some in each category that you can check in your Bible.

(V) 1King 18:25-29, (U) Isa 6:3, (U) Dan 3:52-90, (V) *Mt 6:7, (U) Mt *26:44, (U) *Lk 6:12, (U) Lk 18:1,9-14,*21:36, (U)*Col 1:9, (U) 1Thes 3:10,5:17, (U) *Jam 5:16, (U) **Rev 4:8

One final note:
Many non-Catholics have the false belief that praying to "dead" people is useless. This is a mis-interpretation of what Holy Scripture teaches us, for the Blessed Virgin Mary and others who have gone on before us are not dead but live forever.

The Scriptures tell us that we pray to God through Jesus in the Holy Spirit -- this is Saint Paul's great insight into the nature of specifically Christian prayer.

Theologically, Catholics believe that if our prayer is directed to God the Father, we are simultaneously praying to the Son and to the Holy Spirit; if our prayer is directed primarily to Jesus, we are simultaneously praying to the Father and to the Spirit; and if our prayer is directed primarily to the Holy Spirit we are also praying to the Father and the Son.

Since the Holy Trinity is a divine community of Persons, prayer directed to One of the divine Persons -- Father, Son, Spirit -- reaches the other divine Persons; the Father shares everything with the Son and the Spirit; the Son shares everything with the Father and the Spirit; the Holy Spirit shares everything with the Father and the Son.

So, yes, Catholics pray to Jesus as the Second Person of the Most Blessed Trinity.

We have many ways, as Catholics, of talking about this aspect of our prayer.

To be a Christian means, among other things, accepting Jesus into your life. Mary literally accepted Jesus into her life for when she said "Yes!" to the archangel's invitation and the Holy Spirit overshadowed her, Jesus made His home in her womb. So, for Catholics Mary is the First Christian, the first human being to accept Jesus Christ into her life.

As the First Christian, she is, so the speak, the Prototype of what being a Christian means. In that role, we Catholics feel that Mary has something like a "first among equals" role as exemplar for us.

So, we Catholics feel very comfortable going to her in prayer for guidance and help since she walked this road of living the Christian life before anybody else. When we pray to her, we are, in a sense, asking for her wisdom and insight about how to live our Christian lives more perfectly; since she's already done it, we look to her for example, direction and guidance.

Another way that we Catholics think of our practice of praying to Mary is the following. We are perfectly comfortable as Christians asking other Christians for prayer support when we are confronted by special needs, crises, or stressful circumstances. Calling up a Christian friend and saying, "Please pray for me, I'm going through a really tough time" makes complete sense to us.

Christians also believe that death is not the end of life. Death is a 'door' through which we pass, as we move from one room in our Father's Mansion, the room of this life, to another room in the Lord's House, which is the room of eternal life. The dead in Christ are surely alive!

Mary, as the First Christian, is, then, alive in Christ -- sharing the glory of heaven with her Son and all those to whom God has given eternal life.

So, when we Catholics pray to Mary, we are simply saying that since she is alive in Christ in the glory of heaven, we can go to her, asking for her prayerful support -- in much the same way that we would ask a Christian in our Church community to support us with his or her prayers.

The fact that Mary is alive in life-beyond-death in no way minimizes her ability to pray. In fact, we Catholics would say that since Mary is with her Son, her prayers have a special kind of efficacy and power.

Another way that Catholics talk about praying to Mary builds on the idea of a special bond between a parent and a child, and particularly on the bond between a Mother and her Son. In many human relationships, a mother has a special role in the life of her children. Mary, being such a magnificent mother, and Jesus, being the Perfect Son, surely had a marvelous and ultimately close relationship. When we Catholics pray to Mary, we are simply assuming that the closeness between this Mother and her divine Son continues in life-beyond-death, and we are asking this special and wonderful Mother to speak to her beloved and divine Son on our behalf.

A last word about the way Catholics see our prayer to Mary: When we pray to Mary, we Catholics are, essentially, saying, "Blessed Mary, you are living in the very Presence of God, would you please take my request, my prayer, and put it before God Who chose you to be the Mother of His Son?" We are acknowledging that, as the Bible says, all generations call her "blessed" precisely because God offered her a unique role as the Mother of Jesus and because she accepted God's invitation. That intimacy which Mary had with God continues in the glory of heaven. When we Catholics pray to her, we are simply saying, "Please ask God to hear our prayers now...and at the hour of our death!"

Does a Catholic HAVE to pray to Mary? No, we don't HAVE to pray to Mary. But, praying to Mary is one of the greatest gifts the Catholic Church has to offer us -- so why in the world wouldn't we accept this magnificent gift?!? While we don't have to pray to Mary, most Catholics WANT to pray to her because she is special to God, special to God's Son, and she, therefore, very special to us! We never 'worship' Mary -- "worship" is what we give to God alone. But we do have a very deep love and a very high regard for this blessed woman!

Sometimes, when we pray to Mary, we talk to her. Sometimes, when we pray to Mary, we just think about her and her Son. When we use the Rosary, ...

Why do Catholics pray to Mary? Is it not better to pray directly to God? Why do we call Mary the Mother of God and not the Mother of Jesus? ...

. Protestants could then say, in effect, "even though our beliefs conflict at every turn, and therefore cannot really be true, just look at the even GREATER untruths that exist in Catholicism! Therefore we are in a better place." This argument is about as close as any Protestant can come to justifying the plague of denominations which the original Protestant rebellion spawned, in direct opposition to the will of Christ, Who stated His divine intent that all Christians would be ONE, even as He and His Father are ONE. Protestants therefore do not wage their attacks on traditional Christian truth out of spite or hatred, or even jealousy, but rather out of a desperate quest for a legitimacy which is objectively lacking in their religious tradition. The bizarre accusations they bring against God's Church - worshipping statues, making human beings equal to God, adopting pagan beliefs, etc. might possibly legitimize such a rebellion, if any of it were true.

Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. ...


So let's stop talking bullshit

Me very good. Today staying in, no Samba today. Perhaps tomorrow, yeah tomorrow for sure.

Hey, prettyh. How you doing?

Of course she is, the stupid one is the man who wrote that.

Yep, do that, will be brillliant. Suppose one man came to you and told you "I LOVE YOU" "I LOVE YOU LOTS". You will get in a relationship with him right?

She knows it's love, and she has not even known him yet. Unbelievable. We are gettting to the surreal here. I am sure if she does get to know him she most probably change her mind he's perfect.

What happens if you're not the perfect girl for him? I wouldn't consider him like a god or something, if I were you . Is he a model or what?

It is doubtful we can pinpoint where or when tithing as a legalistic requirement came into the Church, but we can certainly trace its current popularity to the modern prosperity teachers with their promotion of seed faith giving. Many teachers use Mark 10:30 as a promise that anything we give to the Lord will be multiplied one hundred times back to us. Jesus was not speaking about giving, but leaving these things and relatives to follow him. In fact, neither money nor giving is mentioned in association with the hundredfold found in Mark. There is no excuse for teaching this and leading the congregation into collective coveting by their giving. Read the passage carefully! Regardless of what they say it says, did you ever consider that it is because they only want to be on the receiving end? Solomon wrote, “The leech has two daughters--give and Give!” (Proverbs 30:15).

Some teach tithing is the only way the local church is to be supported and tithing to the local church determines a person's spirituality, some have gone as far as to suppose that tithing is a requirement of salvation, if one does not give 10% they are not a true Christian. Some teach from Malachi 3 that you are cursed! What manipulation. If you want to understand the book of Malachi, read Malachi 4:4, “Remember the Law of Moses…” its not just tithing. If you choose by obligation to submit yourself to even part of the Law of Moses, you are obligated to keep it all. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law, to perform them” (Galatians 3:10). It is actually the opposite, if you tithe by obligation then you are bound by all the law. Galatians 5:4 explains “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

If you run into financial difficulties and are unable to feed your family or pay the mortgage, you are not obligated to continue giving 10% to the church. The Apostle Paul said in 1 Tim 5:8, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” This is ones first ministry; rest assured the church will get along without your money.

If you have set aside money for your family needs, but do not use it for them and instead pay it to a church or a ministry as tithes, or as an offering of seed to get out of debt your are not being a good steward. If you owe money on your house don't fall for the scammers that say the $1,000 you have saved for the mortgage will not pay for the house so send it in as a seed to get more money. They are feeding on your carnal nature and making you covet--be responsible to God. Scripture does not teach to give more than you can afford, nor give so God can give you more. There was no mention of the poor becoming rich in the gospel, Jesus did not promise a hundred-fold blessing. “For there are many unruly, vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision: whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucere's sake” (Titus 1:10-11). Their motivation is money, what is your motivation? It has been said “He that serves God for money will serve the Devil for better wages”(Roger L'eStrange). What did Jesus tell us, you can't serve God and Mammon at the same time.

If your family is hungry and you need help to pay the rent you shouldn't be obligated to tithe the church should instead be helping you-willingly. That is what they are there for. We have this example in the early church (Acts 4:37). It is to be the “love of Christ that constrains us” (2 Corinthians 5:14). For it is the heart of God to help those in need, in money if necessary. We as the church should be looking for opportunities to give to those less fortunate around us not to those who already have it all. I hear of too many stories of rich ministries being supported for years and then someone who is hurting asks for some help and they get none. Where is your motivation? Is it of legalism, by law, or from the heart. It is to be the Lord Jesus reaching out and meeting the needs of others through us -- love is the principle that governs the Christians life, it is active not passive. “Though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not (His) love, it profits me nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3). Yes you can actually give it all away as required and still not do it as a response from your heart.

Then there is the rich young ruler who gives us all an example. Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.” The man could not do this. Jesus did not tell the man to tithe to him. After the rich man left Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” (Mark 10:23) Those who had less were often able to respond more easily because it did not get in the way, they had less to give up to follow Him.

Jesus did not teach to give to his ministry but to help the less fortunate “Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail” (Luke 12:33-34). Zacchaeus understood this and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham” (Luke 19:8-9). Want to be blessed, don't give to get more, give from your heart to others that are needy because it is the right thing to do.

We should not be supporting false teachers and those who abuse the money and the gospel for gain. We should be looking to support those who are sincere and are in need of help in doing the Lords work. Those who are involved in full-time ministry are to be supported by the people they serve (1 Cor 9:7-14, 1 Tim 5:17-18), and those who do ministry and mission work need to be supported by those who are home with the goods. A careful review of New Testament giving reveals to us that our contributions should not only be to support our local church and ministries, but also meet the basic needs of our fellow Christians (Acts 2:44-45, 4:32-37; 1 Cor. 16:1-3; 2 Cor. 8:1-13; 1 Tim. 6:17-19). There was organized giving within local assemblies to care for believing widows and orphans who had no other family to rely on (Acts 6:1-4; 1 Tim. 5:1-16).

So stop this bullshit

Prosperity teachers who promote tithing like to point out that Jesus commanded tithing. In the New Testament tithe and tithing are found eight times (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-6,8-9). All of these passages refer to the Old Testament usage under the law. Tithing was still practiced under the law when Jesus was on earth, however, the only time Jesus mentioned the tithe was a rebuke to the religious leaders “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. In Matthew 23:23 he explains they “have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.” These you ought to have done” Here Jesus makes it clear that living the life of faith toward God included love toward man and was more necessary than what you give to God; and this was under the law, not grace. Think about what is Jesus addressing? Justice, the Pharisees were unfair in the in dealings with the people, they ripped them off in their sacrifices brought to the temple. Mercy, they had none, everyone had to be as religious (spiritual) as they were. They constantly looked down upon people, remember the story Jesus told of “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.” The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess. “And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' “I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).
So we see giving is not enough to make one justified before God, yet many have been convinced to rely on their obedience in this area to have God's blessings.

The Pharisees said they have faith but they were more interested in the money, in fact Jesus said: “Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.” ( so did Judas John 12:5-6). Then Jesus scolded them saying “what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God,” and He then summed it up by giving another parable--the rich man and Lazarus. The poor man entered where the faithful were, finding rest in Abraham's bosom but the rich man entered torment. The rich man was punished, not because he was rich but because he lived for self, he had no compassion for poor Lazarus whom he walked by and ignored each day as he sat by his gate.

The weightier matters of the law, what are they? The Christians are to focus on giving to those in need. “And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these” (Mk. 12:31; Gal. 5:14). “Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Gal. 6:2). The principle is to help others, especially the less fortunate brethren (following in principle Deut.14,26)

You'll notice that those promoters of tithing will always use the Old covenant law to justify their teaching this method of blessing. What the prosperity teachers do is bring people out from grace and under law. Under the New Testament covenant there is no specific amount required to give, you determine the amount you can freely give. “Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.”

So on the question of tithing in the New Testament. Nowhere does Paul or any other apostle mention a required amount. On the other hand, Israel was under the law, being a theocratic nation they were obligated to tithe. Jesus had kept the law before He was crucified, for this reason Jesus had Peter pay the temple tax (Matthew 17:24). After Jesus was crucified the New Covenant began and the Old was finished (Heb.8:7,13). New Testament Christians were NEVER under the Old covenant law? One cannot conclude tithing is required under the New Covenant the same as the Lord's Supper and Baptism. Not once does any epistle contain any admonitions or a rebuke for failing to tithe. The necessity of giving is mentioned but only with the right attitude, to help and support others. You do not have to tithe to have God's blessing, in fact, those who are well off are asked to give away their things away when necessary. “Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life” (1 Timothy 6:17-19).

Today we find the poor desiring to be rich and the rich often look upon themselves as blessed and using their abundance as proof of their spiritual condition. They have trained themselves in covetousness ignoring Mark 4:19: “the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires of other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.” One can have an abundance of material blessings and still be bankrupt in their spirituality. We have Jesus saying this about the church of Laodicea. We have too many examples of spiritual giants who have followed this path of abundance to their own demise, Solomon for one. Jesus spoke about money probably more than any other subject, but often with warnings and rebukes, not as a blessing promised for all who follow Him. From today's prosperity preaching one would never know Jesus said to “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses” (Luke 12:15-2). We are cautioned through the whole body of Scripture to be careful of coveting and pursuing riches. Solomon who had more money than most of us will ever see wrote in Proverbs 28:20-23: “A faithful man will abound with blessings, but he who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished. To show partiality is not good, because for a piece of bread a man will transgress. A man with an evil eye hastens after riches, and does not consider that poverty will come upon him. He who rebukes a man will find more favor afterward than he who flatters with the tongue.” Solomon gave both sides of this issue, being poor and being rich. A faithful man is one who serves the Lord no matter what he has, much or little. In other words, we are to be content no matter what we have. We can mistakenly focus our pursuit on only the blessings without realizing that we have abandoned a spiritual life and moved ourselves into a position of severe chastening. Romans 8:32 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? We already have promised what we need according to the love and provision found in Christ Jesus.

Are you Ggiving to God with a Cheerful Heart or Tithing by law to Benefit Yourself?

Have you been promised a great return if you give money to God through a church or a TV ministry? Maybe you heard some testimonies of people getting rich and you were drawn to give whatever you can because someone said that if you sow your seed into their anointed ground it bring a hundred fold return. The stories and testimonies are endless and so are the devastated lives from the unfulfilled promises to them.

There are two different groups of people on different sides; those who see these men as scam artists and are questioning the validity of their practices by the Bible and the other group believes whatever they say, thinking it is biblical and they do not question a thing.

Many preachers, churches and ministries have become very wealthy - especially television evangelists from practicing what they call seed faith. Many today live as king's in what would be called palaces and justify their opulence by using tithing as the law of God to have these blessings. However in closer examination there is no comparison between the enjoyers of the prosperity teaching in the modern day church today and the life Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, or how the Apostle Paul lived. Don't get me wrong, we should give, it is important to give (not just money). I assure you I'm not saying you should not support the church that you go to or ministries that do God's work. What I am asking you to do is two things. Question what your motive is in giving or more importantly, what is their motive in why they are telling you to give? And second: to look into the Scripture to see if what they are saying is Biblical by its context. Both of these will be covered in this article.

God does bless truth and people who want to give with the correct motives. Isn't this what it is all about motives--the givers motive and the receiver's motive.

Tithing for Israel is not the same as the tithe that we hear of today-- in fact tithing was rarely money. There were three tithes in the Old Covenant. More often tithes were the crops, the produce of the soil was to be tithed, grains, the fruit of the trees, every year new wine and oil, the firstborn of their herds and flocks (Leviticus 27:30-33). If the place the nation of Israel were to tithe was too far away to carry their goods (such as Jerusalem) it could be exchanged for money. They were to use their money to buy anything the owner chose: cattle, sheep, wine (Deuteronomy 14:22-26). Every third year the tithe was to be reserved as a festival tithe where they brought out all the tithe, and their produce where the Levite, the stranger, the orphan, the widow, the poor who were in their town, could come and eat and be content (Deuteronomy 14:28-29; 26:12-15). You can expect not to see those who teach tithing as an obligation to practice the third year tithe.

The degree that prosperity teachers manipulate God's people is more than most schemers in the world would dare to do, and they do it without shame. It's all done in the name of our God. The apostles made it clear “But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the Word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth”(2 Corinthians 4:2-3).

No other Scripture has had greater mileage than Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.” Malachi 3 has been greatly misused for God's blessing to come to his people. A closer look of this verse in the context shows that it has nothing to do with wealth or material blessings. We first find this same term used by God back in Genesis 7:11 the windows of heaven were open and rain contributed to the flood, as the fountains of the deep were broken open. In Genesis 8:2 it says the windows of heaven were stopped and the rain from heaven was restrained. Isaiah 24:18 it also mentions the windows from on high; this phrase is consistently used for water. In Genesis it was a judgment. In Malachi 3 it was to be a blessing on their crops. The nation lived by their agriculture (Husbandry) and depended upon the rain. God's blessing had to do with his provision of water; no rain and they would starve. If they did not give God their tithes which was part of the blessing in the Mosaic covenant God would bring a curse on them, the ground would not yield food because he would not allow it to rain.

By the nation Israel tithing under the Law of Moses, they were to trust God acknowledging that everything belongs to Him. It is impossible to tithe as given to Moses, for it was mostly agricultural. Today we hear that we are to obey the tithe law. The tithes were not gifts, they were taxes, tithes were given in addition to other numerous offerings which ended up to be over 22% (not just 10%). Under the law if you were only giving 10 percent on your tithes you would still be robbing God. One tithe was used to support the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32), who were not allowed to own property like the other tribes of Israel. However, this tithe from the people brought to the Levitical priests was not just money. The goods the Levites received would provide their living for their work in the tabernacle. They also were to tithe on part of the goods that they received, and were to dedicate to the Lord a tenth to the office of the high priest (Numbers 18:21-28). It was the Levites who were to “bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse” (Nehemiah 10:38). The Malachi passage that so many use to prove we are to tithe is not rebuking the people, he is rebuking the Levites for keeping the tithe that went to them. When modern day prosperity teachers use this verse on the people to be faithful, but they are really pointing at themselves-except they are biblically ignorant to recognize what it's actually saying. 1 Timothy 1:5-7 “Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.” The New Testament teaches grace giving, tithing was not a freewill cheerful giving, it was a commandment in Moses' law to a nation under God, Israel. Nowhere in the New Testament does it require any obligation or a legal portion of ones income.

Never confuse what is possible with what is probable. Do you really think that someone would stop crack cocaine just because some girl tells him she loves him. Please get real here. Most probably they get to the grave together.

If you have such a problem with that, you should call it quits. Is much better. I talk from experience here.

God Bless

That the point I am trying to make. Pentecostals under no circumstances want to marry in catholic church. And most catholics do not have problems with other churches. How are pentecostals so prejudiced. Know ot alls.

I mean, can anyone control any of these

i) Not getting what we want
ii) Maintaining what we have
iii) Losing what we love
iv) Encountering what we don't like

That does not mean he is right about everything. I agree that tithing should not be a requirement. However if someone wants to do that nayway, I am not going to be the one to stop him.

I tell you a bit about Bishop Spong, Why Christianity Must Change or Die

"Every image of God is mythological," Spong affirmed. The disciple Judas and Jesus' earthly father, Joseph, were fictional characters whom the early church created. Spong called the Ten Commandments "immoral" too.

So you think freedom from suffering is possible? I have doubts on that. Surely you are not saying we have the resources to do that. There will be suffering always.

So she better cook well

Actually I do not know waht freedom of choice is. Choice is choice. The point is that that choice can alleviate human suffering.
It's interesting when you read of the life of Christ how much of his time he spent here healing the sick. There must have been a reason for that. He was modeling for us what it is that we are intended to do by following in his path. So, I think the mandate for us as human beings to reach out to those who are suffering and try to heal their illnesses, and it's entirely consistent with strong faith. In fact, it's one of the strongest mandates we have.

Especially if it's a nice cool car.

Freedom of choice makes freedom from suffering impossible.

The bible also got it right in that respect. Humans had freedom of choice in the Garden of Eden, and the result of that freedom of choice, when Adam rebelled against God, was we are condemned to a life of suffering. What we have today is responsibility for deciding which kinds of actions are putting us in a troubling direction where we'd best not go. And that is obviously where the debates begin to get underway.

How possible is that? Freedom of Choice and Freedom from suffering? Can they really go together? (You will have to assume God exists in order to answer this appropriately).

Let's talk reality here, and not what's possible. A moral code for Physicists, "Don't confuse what is possible with what is probable"
What there is, is Freedom of Choice. Freedom from suffering? I don't think so.

Of course if something is silly, I certainly would not accept that. I mean, I read a lot of works not only christian. Tolstoy "The Kingdom of God is within you" is good and some buddist texts which make sense.

Let's hope so. I got a lot more picky now. I mean, I learnt my lesson. Went to her pentecostal church several times, she never came to my church, not even once.

Consider love and music, they are also irrational. That does not make them wrong or untrue. I mean, you really think I am an irrational man about being Catholic. I don't think so, if one believes more what religion teaches than just for the sake of tradition. I am not that stupid.

We ain't that bad. One has to get the time to know us.

You have a point there,

I mean, even on religous aspects, both persons in that faith, from other faiths and anyone who has any interest in what's happening in the world, to try to understanding and investigate what it is all about. Most people believe so many wonderful things that is good to investigate why they do.

People who claim that other religions are totally wrong.
People who say all religions are equally true often mean that all religions are equally false – that none of them conveys any factual information about God, that all are just fluff and warm feelings.

It sounds charitable and fair to say all religions are equally good – until you think about it. What would we think of a geologist who said, "Some people believe the world is round and some believe the world is flat, and I think we should let everyone choose the belief with which he is most comfortable"? Would you say he’s an exceptionally wise and tolerant geologist?

Sometimes I think that being fair and accepting all points of view, is not so ggod. Hovever, I agree that all religions deserve equal protection under the law, not because I believe all religions are equally true, but because whenever government gets involved in prescribing religion for people it messes everthing up.

Look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since, there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to hell.