₦airaland Forum

elampiro:
* In Barzail, RVP was 9 for Netherlands while Robben operated far behind him, more like an attacking midfieder. That wasn't too 9s. So you can't say Rooney and Chicha played as two 9s. That was even with Sneidjer in the number 10. But in this case, Rooney was our only 10 while Chicha was 9.

the ease at which lies roll off your lips is exemplary. you should be a village politician. in brazil, sneijder was in the hole - robben & RVP were the strikers. at leicester, rooney was in the hole, RVP & falcao were the strikers.

stop running from the question i asked you - which of RVP or falcao was the number 9 at leicester?

Your chat is nonsense. I have proven many times that it is hardly consistent with the tactics and formation played in a match. You remeber the case of Ozil, your chart misled us. There were a few more. Zonal marking is a better representation of what transpired in matches.

so opta that is paid to collate stats are doing nonsense but a prolific liar like you should be taken seriously? after lying to us rooney posted more passes than carrick against bolton - a game carrick didn't even start, you still had the audacity to post another comment ridden with lies?

don't you have any shame?

* Lastly, I will like to see the 5 completed corner kicks per match from Rooney. You have players corner kick stats for our season of 2011/12. Why not enlighten us and settle this case. I put it to you that Rooney did not make those long balls from corner kicks. They were made from the deep.

corner kicks are part of long passes or passes in general. i have been using opta stats for years so keep quiet when i am talking. you cannot argue with your master while pretending to all & sundry that you want to learn.

choose one - are you here to learn or argue with rooney's position in 11/12?

Wayne Rooney:
Accurate Long balls 181,
Inaccurate long balls 47.

Ryan Giggs
ALB 60
ILB 40

Rooney wouldnt have completed 80% of his corner kicks while Giggs completes only 60% of his long balls

what has this gotta do with the fact that corners(short or long), freekicks(very short ones that are taken quickly) are part of the number of passes recorded?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1944892_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

the above is cesc's passing stats at old trafford and included in it were his corner kicks(his assist for drogba), a key pass from his corner & other failed ones.

elampiro:
Key pass doesn't tell anything. Our wingers were involved in set plays as well as receiving diagonal passes from Rooney. Long passes from Scholes and Rooney too.

key pass doesn't tell anything? so what's rooney's function in the hole? scratching his balls?

* How do you explain this? Rooney had more passes than Carrick against Bolton, had a last man clearance and scored a hatrick. Yet he was the number 9. . A number 9 equaled Carrick in number of passes.

what's the meaning of number-9?
we played 4-4-2 against bolton - who was number 9 when falcao & RVP were the strikers in the early part of the season?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1944712_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

show us how rooney was in the hole in this formation?

* I am also waiting for you to prove Rooney's 5 long balls per match were from corner kicks.

* I will also like you to prove that corner kicks are long passes. We learn every day. [/b]

if it's completed, it's a pass!

elampiro:
You were talking about Mata's pass to RVP.

Mata pass to Rooney is seen every week in the EPL when a defence plays high, it becomes easy.

i was talking about the world class skill to get it to rooney & the selfless attitude & self control to give it to RVP.

if mata pass to rooney is seen every week, how come rooney cannot deliver a simpler pass into the box when van persie was waiting at the far post? falcao delivered it on a plate for RVP at leicester in a similar position.

elampiro:
The above states it all.

your argument is like that of a villager - so because rooney posted high number of passes in 11/12 means he operated in the hole?

how do you explain this, then?

2.4 key pass per game, 13 assists - valencia
2.3 key pass per game, 10 assists - nani
1.8 key pass per game , 8 assists - giggs
1.7 key pass per game , 7 assists - young

1.5 key pass per game , 4 assists - rooney
1.1 key pass per game , 4 assists - welbeck

so all our wingers with their limited number of appearances managed to post more key passes/game than rooney in 11/12 & you still continue to lie rooney played in the hole?

elampiro:
You have started quoting comments from those haters who were trying to make case for Rooney to be dropped. Thank God no one listen to them. That was a magnificent pass. Absolutely fantastic.
Mata was not in motion with the ball, Rooney was. I will close my eyes to make that Mata's pass. Go and watch women junior world cup, you will see better passes.

mata wasn't in motion when he put rooney through? are you blind? was the first pass not from a counter attack that mata started & rooney messed the cross up? if you can close your eyes to make the mata pass to rooney then rooney is a disgrace for failing to find van persie in the box.

elampiro:
Hahaha, that was a perfect pass. Any further force should have sent Di Maria on collusion with two defenders. But Rooney gave him a pass with an option to score or free Falcao with the goal keeper.

so why did a football pundit say this?

Prone to the Hollywood ball, Rooney failed with each of his long forward passes and, in attacking zones, Rooney managed just one shot – off target, of course. True, Rooney completed an assist for Angel Di Maria’s goal, but the pass was so underweighted that the Argentinian was forced into a sublime finish simply to complete United’s move.

* I have seen Rooney tuned 180 to deceive players and set Herrera free on the edge of the box, but Herrera has a weak shot. I saw him turn many times against City, sending players the wrong direction. Even in our last match.

so rooney's 5 yard pass to di maria was more difficult than mata's pass to rooney leading to RVP's goal last night?

Shirley07:
Dunno what you're talking about. Oscar had 80% pass success rate in that game.

that was the half time report.....
so oscar went on to complete 80% by full time but mata completed 91% of his passes at full time.

so we ask again - who's the better passer of the ball?

elampiro:
* I differentiated them. May be you didn't want to understand.

go home & learn what it takes to be a DLP.

* Rooney did not under hit the pass. Rooney gave a precise sexy pass for Di Maria to score goal of the season.

something that many pundits pointed out after i made mention of it here.....rooney made a bad pass to di maria.

https://giant.gfycat.com/GlitteringSparseAnkolewatusi.gif

this is one of the easiest pass to make - di maria was right in front of rooney - and fat rooney almost messed the pass up.

* What has blocked shot got to do? A midfielder should have blocked shots than number 9s.

frequent blocked shots means predictability.
everyone knows what rooney will do once he gets the ball in opponents' area. he has no variation to his play to dummy his markers & evade last-ditch blocks.....he just shoots like a zombie & ruins the chance.

elampiro:
I didnt pay attention to this before. Carrick was dominated by team mates in other stats excpet passing.

to be a playmaker, you get the most passes cos other team mates look up to you to do something with the ball. carrick collects it from the centre-halves & distribute with accuracy to the players that will cause havoc.

I JUST GOT TO SEE THIS NOW.

I have told you that the wingers were very busy and they were the set piece takers. The following tells it all.

how did the ball get to the wingers - were they the ones taking them from de gea or carrick? how did the entire play also bypass rooney - he had the lowest chance creation stats in a list that included young, valencia & nani.

Passes completed. Rooney almost tied Carrick (our top passer) in very many matches i listed here (one by one) few weeks ago. I also showed he was one of our best short passers. He wouldn't have achieved that from the number 9.

rooney played many games that season - having many passes was expected if you play 34 league games - that doesn't disprove the fact that he was not in the hole. united played 4-4-2 that season.

Accurate Long balls: Rooney had one accurate long ball every 15 minutes. Carrick every 14 mins. Among the regular players, Rooney was 3rd behind Scholes and Carrick. Even Giggs had in every 24 minutes. Berba had every 171 minutes. You can see the difference.

accurate long balls include set plays too. van persie wasn't in united that season & rooney took many set plays that year. you still don't know how to read stats.

Nihilist:
I have honestly never in my life heard such a foolish utterance before. Mata is not a playmaker, but Oscar is?

go easy on her.....
for a female, she tried.

Nihilist:
Riquelme was the daddy of all number 10s, the king of Enganches and I would obviously pick Riquelme over Mata(Subject to tactical tweak of course)
But that's not saying much....Robben is one of the best wingers in the world, but I would still pick Ronaldo over him so....

riquelme's biggest criticism was also his reluctance to track back & get his shorts dirty but he's a brilliant player. i would choose him over mata too cos of his dead ball delivery & accurate through-balls. he's one of the best to do it.

leggo:
And oscar? The only thing Oscar does better than Mata is clear the ball, yet he is the playmaker? Logic fails again

oscar is a defender posing to be a playmaker - he's got nothing over mata apart from his defensive quality. oscar is excellent at his secondary role but very poor at his primary role.

45% pass accuracy is the worst i have seen since OPTA started collating stats.

elampiro:
I was trying to differentiate three things. Deep lying playmaker (CM), Adanced playmaker(am) and playmaker.

you weren't differentiating anything...,

* Rooney, under immense pressure played a sexy through pass to Di Maria.

why are you lying now?
everyone knew rooney underhit the pass & that was exactly the reason di maria had to chip the ball.....

* Rooney is the most predictable player? Yet he keeps sending keepers the wrong way from 15 to 25 yards open play shots?

he has the most blocked shots of any striker in the world. rooney can't think straight - he doesn't dummy his markers.....he hits the ball straight at the direction he's facing. too predictable!

Nihilist:
This kain highness? On a Monday?

halftime at OT.....

https://i.imgur.com/qm807JC.png

45% pass accuracy - oscar is indeed the best playmaker in the northern hemisphere. shirley is correct.

Shirley07:
Can you tell me one CL game where Mata had Silva vs barca esque performance against a top team? I bet you can't find one.
To top it, Silva always make Mata his bitch everytime he encountered him against Chelsea or Manutd. That should tell you there's no comparison.

silva plays for the better team in the last 2-3 seasons at least. silva vs mata on the pitch is your fantasy. the two of them don't see eye to eye on the pitch so how can silva make mata his bïtch?

Against Spur, Saints were up against their former manager who knows them in and out. All it takes is to tell one of his player to stick close to Morgan and mark him out. Against Pool, it was just badluck.

and it's not badluck that they lost to united? i laugh each time people select when to use bad luck as their excuse. the saints lost to a hopeless liverpool side with morgan in the team & you deemed it bad luck - why not use the same excuse in the games they have lost without morgan?

The chairman comment on Morgan wasn't just a typical comment of an English man. Morgan merits that praise as his performance have been nothing short of fantastic. He's even gotten himself into the France team. Let me also made it known that the Saints refused Arsenal when they inquire about him during the window. That tells you how important he is to them.

morgan is shyte!
if he was good, he woulda followed the mass exodus of his team mates last summer. no big club came for him.

Why do you think Southampton were still able to do well after being stripped of their better players e.g Lallana, Lambert, Shaw, Chamber, Lovren e.t.c? Because Southampton didn't sell the brain of the team.

it's a combination of many variables - the fixtures favoured them & they have a decent coach who made many smart buys. nothing to do with morgan schnerderlin.

I do admire these kind of players not only because of their skill set but because of their brain which are constantly working and in control.

where was his brain against liverpool & spurs?

As for Oscar being better than Mata? Yes, he is. Oscar has better pace, better control of the ball in tight places, better awareness, better dribbling to open up space and above all, can orchestrate play.

oscar can't clean mata's boots.
if oscar was better, mata wouldn't have won player of the season for 2 consecutive seasons.

The only thing Mata has above him is his vision which he can only display in the final third but in the midfield, he's a lost puppy; that's if he doesn't lose the ball to begin with. Oscar is also defensively better than Mata. Enough said.

mata is miles better than oscar bar defensive qualities. mata is too small to offer anything defensively. he's short & small-framed.....in the attacking part of the game, only zola is better than mata in the last 15 seasons or thereabout.

elampiro: Deep lying playmaker and Advanced playmaker are different from playmaker. We are talking about a playmaker here and not a specific role. When you say an Advanced playmaker, it means the CM. An Advanced playmaker means an AM. But a playmaker could mean anyone in the team, irrespective of his position, who obviously dictates the direction of play for the whole team. He controls the flow of the team's build up. He might also have goal scoring ability as well as the final pass. This is why Zidane is the best example ahead of Xavi, Scholes and Pirlo.

if you are too old to cope with the discourse, why not just retire & stay at home?

elampiro:
Anything could happen in a match- like RVP missing from 7 yards from Vals pass. That was a tap in. So forget that Rooney's pass which was intercepted. Rooney has given far more quality passes like the one for Valencia to score Leverkusen. To RVP against Villa. Sexy pass to Di Maria to score a classical chip. More and more and more.

the pass to di maria was a bad pass - di maria had to improvise & nothing was in front of rooney to make that pass......

Mata's pass was ordinary. I will pass it even under tight marking. RVP was all alone and no body on the way.

it wasn't ordinary because he had the self control to be selfless & play the ball to a better-placed team mate. if that was rooney, he would have taken a shot that would have been blocked cos rooney is the most predictable player in the world!

elampiro:

There is nothing special in that pass, except for those who probably didnt kick a ball. I will make that pass without thinking I have done something special.

Even, RVP raised his hands calling for the pass. Even a blind player would have seen RVP.

it was nothing special but rooney failed to complete the easier pass to van persie? rooney saw van persie at the far post & yet he still played a rubbish pass that was easily cut off when he should be bending the pass out of reach of the covering defenders.....

Shirley07:
From free kicks and cornerkicks?
The likes of Ibra, Messi, even Rooney makes that pass often. That doesn't make them playmakers.

messi passes the ball better than silva.

Mata's a fraud and it's not a coincidence that as soon he left, Chelsea became much better against City, Liverpool and all those teams with pressing midfield they often find difficult to face.

as soon as he left, chelsea won nothing. while he was there, they won champions league, europa league & other domestic competitions.

chelsea won 0 titles when mata left.

Mata is a luxury player. The team have to uplift him instead of him uplifting the team.

i like your usage of the word luxury - it simply means mata is a star player. put him anywhere & his stats speak for itself. how many goals has he scored now this season despite his limited number of minutes.

elampiro:
You are the baba olodo. Carrick created a key pass from long ball every 628 minutes. Young 105 mins, Giggs 122 mins, Nani 124 mins, Val 176 mins (defender/winger and created mostly from open play), Jones 355 mins, Evra 463 mins.
You said playmaking is about creating chances. If that is the case, how did Carrick get into your list? Carrick was behind 12 players- Nani, Val, Giggs, Young, Anderson, Rooney, Welbeck Scholes, Hernadez, Fletcher and Evra in creativity/minute.
Top Assists- Val 13, Nani 10, Giggs 8, Young 7

Carrick's (only) quality over other players that season was his passing. He was our top passer in 2011/12 season. That meant he was the one who held our play together with his knitting passes that season.

you are a dullard
is carrick a playmaker or not? that's the crux of the matter. this is probably your first time of hearing the term deep-lying playmaker - you should be paying me for the education you get from me.

if you knew carrick was a playmaker, you wouldn't have made the other idiötic statement about what carrick was doing on the list as if i was the one that created the list. fact remains carrick was the deep-lying playmaker making the "assist of the assists" to the wingers who were supplying our strikers.

this is another big discovery that rooney wasn't in the hole in 11/12 like you have lied to us for years. the route to attack that year was carrick to the wingers --> wingers to the strikers. a deep-lying playmaker can go direct to the strikers or make assist of assists. another football education for you.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1944351_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

elampawa, who is your daddy in this game?

Shirley07:
You mean half chances and chances gifted to him by our players.
The truth is since Morgan's injury, they have never been the same. Even their chairman said he can sell all of their players but not Morgan because he's the most difficult player to replace.

how did they lose to spurs & liverpool with schnerderlin on the pitch?

You can keep going round in circles, it won't change the cold fact that the Saints begin to drop point as soon as Morgan was out injured.

they dropped 7 points when he was in the team. what the chairman said is typical in england. some players become legends while on the bench cos everyone somehow feels if they are fit to play, they would get victories for their team.

For the umpeteeth time, there's no comparisom between Mata and Silva. Infact, Mata isn't fit to lace Silva's boot. Silva is a god of football on his own.

defensively, silva is better.
when it comes to the attacking side of football, mata shytes on silva over & over again. it's shouldn't even be compared.

What can I say about coaches, some are stupid, lacking insight and some don't even know the ability of their players nor how to utilize them to get the best out of them. Some are stubborn like Van Gaal while some only recognize big names without looking at what skill-set these players brings into the team e.g Moyes. So, tell me more

so in your opinion, oscar is a better player than mata?

Shirley07:
Eating bole.
Mata is a fraud, always taking the glory of others doing the hardwork. Thank God he's been found out.
How can a player who is allergic to the midfield be a playmaker? Shior.

juan mata is a fraud?
mata of life is a fraud? are you high on shekpe? if chelsea didn't have an out of form torres on their books in the first 2 seasons, mata would have recorded 30 league assists per season.

you have to be intelligent to do this....

https://giant.gfycat.com/SorrowfulGargantuanKarakul.gif

can you see the slide-rule pass to rooney? fat rooney messed it up & the ball fell back to mata. another player would have taken the shot then but mata isn't just another player....his vision told him van persie is better placed to score.


this is pure intelligence at it's best....

Shirley07:
Nope.
You know why Southampton are on the losing end lately? Because Morgan Schnerderlin, their deeplying playmaker is out injured. Check all their losses, includind their defeat against City, you would notice it coincinded with the absence of Morgan. Even City were only able to get through them after Morgan was subbed out due to injury.

southampton are on the losing end because they have been found out, their luck has run out, they are now facing a higher quality of opposition, etc. it's too simplistic to put it down on the injured schnerderlin. southampton have won games in the past without him.

Does Morgan creates many chances per game? Nope. Because that's Tadic's job but why is Tadic finding it difficult to create? Because he has no one to knit play behind him and provide him with the incisive passes.

tadic isn't finding it difficult to create chances....he created 5 chances(open play) against united only a week ago.

You're right that playmakers should be the one with the most touches and passes but it is not always like that due to various reasons. First, the position of the playmaker may be of hindrance. For example, Silva have to drift into the centre to get more touches but when he's unable to do this, he's liable to get few touches.

silva & mata played exactly in the same position in 11/12. mata was drafted left of the attack that season even when most pundits thought he should be played centrally.

Secondly, inability of the team mates to recognizing the actual playmaker and this is also the fault of coach. For example, Chelsea players didn't recognize Oscar as the actual playmaker, they probably thought that Mata is the playmaker since the team was built around Mata. However, the player that actually made play happened was Oscar, even with the little touches he had. Same thing happened with Mata and Kagawa in the games against Newcastle, Aston Villa, Westham e.t.c. Everyone defered to Mata in those games but Kagawa was the playmaker.
In a right set up and with an insightful coach, the playmaker gets more touches on the ball.

this is the most hilarious comment ever.
what do you take players & managers for? do you know how many drills, trainings, instructions, simulations, etc that these players go through before games?

how can chelsea players not recognise their playmaker when they musta drilled & simulated their coming game in training all week? the player with the most toüches is the playmaker - it's not coincidence that other players look for him for inspiration - that's the tactical approach the manager must have drilled into them.

Nihilist:
Mata received the more passes than any other Chelsea midfielder that year, indicating that the whole team was constantly looking to get him on the ball as he was the focal point of the midfield play.

In addition to receiving the ball more than any other Chelsea midfielder, Mata was also registering more touches of the ball than any other player, indicating that he was having time to dwell on the ball a bit longer than anyone else.

He was directly involved in 36.9% of all of Chelsea's league goals.

Finally he created chances quicker and in more volume than any other Chelsea player.

If that's not a playmaker, then I don't know what your definition of playmaker is.

don't mind the stark illiterates!
look at that one saying carrick being included in the list means others aren't playmakers. this is how to separate the men from the women.

elampiro:
Playmaking is not primarily about creativity. Pls update your yourself. Even, with Carrick on your list, you have lost the argument. How did Carrick get into the list before our wingers and forwards?

Bye. See you later.

carrick is a deep-lying playmaker - you are a big olodo. you don't even know carrick dictate play from the deep. all those long balls like the one hernandez scored against chelsea is a final pass. his examples are pirlo, modric & xabi fücking alonso.

Shirley07:
Nope. Playmake is make a play i.e, conduct play, my engrish teacher.

so how do you make a play?
you guys are making me laugh with your bush english comprehension. the player with the vision to tread a pass that leads to a shot taken is the playmaker.....he is the one that receives the most passes in the game & distributes the ball with accuracy & panache.

mata was that man for chelsea in 11/12.

Shirley07:
Playmaking is not all about being creative.

Infact, when a playmaker creates chances, it's seen as a bonus that comes with playmaking.
In a lame man's word,
Playmakers are often known as the assist of the assists.
Don't also forget Mata takes all the free kicks and corner kicks when he was at Chelsea compared to Silva who rarely did.

english language will forever be your biggest challenge. playmaking is creativity.

you make something - you create something. the word explains itself thoroughly. the only significant stat about playmaker is the frequency at which they create chances.

every other stat is just beating about the bush. passing, dribbling, ball control are all a means to an end(goal scoring). from the definition of created chance - the pass that leads to a shot taken, it's clear as daylight who the king was in 2011/12.

elampiro:
In my understanding, the primary argument here is about playmaking and not creativity. Shriley gave a perfect example between Xavi (a playmaker) and Iniester (a creator). The key to a playmaker is knitting passes together for the team, particular towards offensive play. Scholes was a good example for us.
However, we could get a complete playmaker in players like Zidane who knit the game and as well create for his team.

playmaking is creativity.
xavi & iniesta are both creators. however, iniesta sometimes played as an auxiliary forward for barca & his stats somehow gets spruced & confuse jew men like you & shirley. if a playmaker isn't about creativity, what is he about then? defensive?

the exact reason scholes gets hailed by his peers in europe is because he's a playmaker - the king of the final pass that leads to a shot taken. xavi said that much when he was paying tributes to scholes - and what are such passes called?

elampiro:
We are talking about playmaker. I am perhaps one of the few who pay attention to details and follow the line of an argument. Shirley is talking about playmaker.

Playmaker is primarily about control of the flow of a game. This is why Shirley has been talking about Xavi, and not Iniester. In this regard, Mata is woeful in comparison with the guys you listed up there.

rubbish!
playmaker is about creativity - chance creation. passing, running, dribbling, crossing, ball control are all means to an end(goal scoring). the player that makes the final pass more often is the playmaker.....he's the one blessed with the vision to make the pass that would lead to a shot taken.

mata was miles better than his peers in that regard in 11/12 & this is why his passes created more shots than any other. if silva's high passing accuracy in the final third is returning less created chances than mata then logic dictates silva made more safe passes than mata.

elampiro:
What about Lampard? In 2011/12 season you compared, Lampard did far better than Mata in terms of passing. I can also see Mata having 74% pass accuracy in opposition half which is horrible when compared to Silva, Modric, Carrick and Arteta.

the key to the best playmaker is the one that creates a chance the fastest. mata was creating a chance every 25 mins. he towers above others in that simple statistics. his 74% pass accuracy in the opposition half still created one chance in every 25 mins.

silva was creating his chance every 27 mins. there's a reason mata was the player of the season for chelsea, not lampard. lampard is the microcosm of what mata is with the ball. mata is the playmaker king since his arrival from valencia.

elampiro:
Your stat states otherwise. Silva was far better.

How did we allow a player like Modric to leave the EPL? Plus Bale? Next time Man United should do it like Bayern Munich.

only few people know how to read statistics here & you are not one of them. can you not see mata creates a chance every 25 mins to silva's 27?

where exactly did silva do better than mata in that stats provided in 11/12?

Nihilist:
I'm just laughing at Shirley07

Everthing went through Mata during those 2 years

11/12 Mata received the highest number of passes in that Chelsea midfield and was involved in almost 40% of Chelsea's league goals.

Created the most chances, created chances faster than anybody else, threw the most through balls...the man was the heartbeat of midfield

I've told shirley07 to upgrade to a plasma screen and stop listening to OGBC2

mata was a beast that season!
he was miles better than silva & that was mata's debut season at chelsea. thank feck he's now a red devil.

shirley07, mata was chelsea's best playmaker since they had zola. no debating! mourinho just didn't like him cos he wanted him to be more defensive. mourinho wouldn't have liked any of xavi & iniesta too cos they don't suit his "jam body" football.

in terms of vision, key passes, final passes, guile, close control, deft touches, etc mata is a king. i could care less about his defensive side. anyone expecting mata to be as defensive as toure or matic is a lunatic. he's not built like a tank.

playmaker stats (11/12 season)

appearances
https://eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Playmaker-1.png

possession
https://eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Playmaker-2.png

passing areas
https://eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Playmaker-31.png

creativity
https://eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Playmaker-4.png

goal scoring
https://eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Playmaker-5.png

Shirley07:
It's a myth that Toure provides steel. He's reformed his game into attacking play long time ago.

toure provides steel. he's a beast at breaking down plays - he does exactly what fellaini does for us but much better at it. he has the drive to bring the ball forward from the deep end & create chances. he's a box to box dynamo midfielder. his energy levels might have gone down a notch but he still provides steel.

The only player sanctioned with defensive duties are Fernando and Fernandinho and even then, only one out of them plays coupled with the fact that Fernadinho is a box to box CM, turned into a makeshift DM by City.
Fernadinho is at his best in a box to box role and that was where he made his name at Donetsk. So, that leave Fernando as the only true DM City have.

the 3 of them are gorillas - we don't have anyone as strong as them in our team. when you have kompany, mangala, & those 3 destroyers in the same team then the creative players get the license to roam & express themselves without fear or fervour.

We also have our own DM which is Blind and let me made it known to you that before his injury, he was ranked among top 3 players with the highest no of tackles and interception in the league. He's also not just a DM for us, he's been a player who knit up our play and contributes to our build-up play. I'm sure when he's relieved of such burden, he would even contribute much more in the defensive aspect.

blind is just a young carrick.....
his strength is mostly positioning & interception. he's not much of a hard tackler & he doesn't travel with the ball like toure does. he needs to bulk up too to withstand the physical demands of his role.

Also, with all the defensive gadgets City have, they are still poor in europe. You know why? Because they failed to deploy Silva the right way. Instead of the centre, he's forced on the wing to accommodate two strikers.

city's failure in europe is just teething problems. they don't know how to manage games in europe yet & that's to do with their inexperience as a team. city's 2nd team is better than arsënal but arsenal manage european games better than city cos of their experience over the years.....the tactical approach, the confidence & the psychological angle are all important too. it's one thing to be good, it's another thing to know how to win.

City's best game against top teams in europe still remains the Barca game where they had Silva in the centre. In that game, Silva was the best player on the pitch and this he archived while playing with an out of sort Yaya and a deflated Fernandinho in midfield yet, he was still able to outclass Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and co. Unfortunately, City lost the game because their forwards went on holiday despite the chances Silva fashioned out for them.

the 3 players floating behind city's striker are fluid. they all roam and occupy different positions as the game dictates. silva isn't really an out & out winger. he often gets into the hole to deliver a killer pass. he's mostly everywhere. their attacking football is fluid!

That said, I still don't get how Mata being invisible in games relate to not having DM in midfield. It's more like him not having a playmaker to knit play behind him, like Kagawa did for him when he was here. Have you also noticed that Iniesta drop in form coincided with Xavi's decline. Iniesta find it difficult to get his mojo back because he lacks penetration and incisiveness from the midfield. And this is a player who's 10 times better than Mata and not a second striker!
What Manutd need is a playmaker, not Mata nor Strootman!

without 2 strong DMs behind mata, the burden falls on his shoulders to track back & make up for the deficiencies in the pivot. last season, we had a very weak midfield & the AMs were asked to protect the pivot - and that takes something away from their attacking play.

trequartista should be what they are - modern football is destroying the game by making everyone defend like zombies. if you have 2 centre halves & 2 DMs to protect the back 4, why is there another need to put AMs in defensive mode? that's 7-9 players in defence, it blunts attacking football.

Shirley07:
Mata is not a playmaker.
Do you see how Silva conduct play? Now, that's a playmaker and I bet Silva is burdened with defensive duties as much as Mata.
Mata is not even an AMC like Ozil, James, Gotze, he's basically a second striker.

it's easy to be a david silva when you have 5 grown gorillas doing the dirty work. who's our equivalent of yaya toure? fernandinho? fernando? kompany? mangala? even city's fullbacks are all solid(clichy, sagna, kolarov & zabaleta).

they only have flair players in the advanced area of the team.....nasri, silva, navas, aguero, etc. this is why you can't really compare mata to silva. silva has all the freedom to express himself with the knowledge that he has gorillas covering his arsë. mata doesn't have that kinda luxury with us.

What you're failing to grasp is the playmaking aspect, not creativity. Both are two different things. For example, Xavi do the playmaking for Barca, Iniesta and the forwards do the creativity. However the platform for their creativity is Xavi's playmaking. Without it, Barca lose their penetration and incisiveness. Same with Madrid whenever they had Alonso out, they were out of sort, although they have Kroos in his place now. What Manutd need is a playmaker.

mata is an excellent playmaker!
then you have rooney, herrera, januzaj, di maria, etc. the problem with these players is that we don't have a pivot strong enough to let them express themselves - so we instruct them to defend from the front & track back. not every player likes to defend & run around like a headless chicken.

if you want to see the best of mata - play vidal + strootman behind him.

Shirley07:
We already have Herrera for that. Infact, what we should be talking is how similar are both Herrera and Strootman. Both are box to box midfielders. And from what we've seen from Di Maria so far, he's more comfortable in midfield than on the wings. That's another box to box CM we have on our hand.
What we actually need is a playmaker that can knit play together in the centre of play and that player isn't Strootman, I would rather have his team mate, Pjanic or a player like Verratti. These are the players the team need, Carrick and Blind have tried their best to knit play together but there's little they can do as they aint playmakers, they are holding midfielders. Infact, they are being burdened with two works and once either of them is marked out, the team is a goner just like it did against Leicester when Blind was marked out.

mata can knit play together......
it is when you put burden on him to do defensive job that he collapses. only a genius like him could have assisted RVP for the 3rd goal. we have enough creative players in that team, what we lack is steel especially when we don't have the ball.

we need:
•strootman or vidal
•godin + hummels + varane

coded01:
Its obvious De gea is saving grace for Man Utd @ the moment, but how long will Man Utd rely on a goalkeeper?

de gea isn't a separate entity from united. he's our player. any of our players can cop heroic displays that get the team a victory. saying we rely on our own player to get us 3 points is malicious.

Kay17:
I did not disagree with the 'worrying statistics', what I disagreed with was the reasons for the statistics. You gave a single reason which cannot stand on its own, saying women by their biological makeup, lack brainpower. On the other hand, the article gives a myriad of reasons and a raging debate over the subject. Your own link which you provided stated:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20121028/BUSINESS/310269984

the article gave possibilities not cogent reasons. if they can do it, they will be doing it.....not abandon the ship completely after spending thousands of $$$ to acquire a degree in engineering.

Your own evidence damns your position. It is incredible.

Now, we have a new claim from you: women are liars. But the women in your own statistics reference are not liars, right?! How selective!

when it comes to claims of sëxual offences by women, i always stop short. 90% of them are usually fabricated. if we go by word of mouth alone, potiphar's wife was sëxually harassed by young joseph.

looking at it again, sterling should be hung, he should have struck the ball on his sexing touch. he had no reason to touch it for the 3rd time.....

https://giant.gfycat.com/ShoddyVariableDeinonychus.gif