₦airaland Forum

damiso: I was working full time so was my husband so I was not entitled to most of the benefits available.Child benefit was the only non means tested benefit and now sef it is, cos one partner earns over £44k you lose it.Living on benefits is crap really. Most of those you see living large on benefits lie that they have no partners.Esp those that married out of country.

Nashville: It is obvious Coogar is one of the people that has made the UK government want to impose a bond on NIgerians. All his arguements are about how to illegally milk the UK system.

damiso: Biko Coogar pls how can I get this £25k child benefit For wia.Under ConDems lai lai.Its not a walk in the park like that o

dayokanu: If you live in the West and have a College degree chances are that you have a college loan is that also a rat race? they need a car and get a carnote which is also a necesity

If you are in Nigeria you need to rent a house in a decent neighborhood, Most landlords require 2yrs upfront payment which most new couples have to take a loan to pay. Are those part of the rat race too?

As long as you dont follow your daughter to school she can also get molested in the nursery school, primary school even on the play ground

So coogar how much value can you put on your daughter getting raaped while in Nursery school, primary school etc.

If you now have a drop in income and live in a low income area you are even more exposed to these criminals and it quadruples the risk on your children

Nashville: Coogar,
Are you married and do you have children? Please say yes or no.

lady gogo: Interesting debate.
Kudos Nashville. Wetin Dayokanu go say before. HE aint got time for stay-at-home mums.

Coogar likes to rile people up. He isnt like that in real life. This is his alter ego.

I love how Coogar used Helsinki as an example.

Thats where BABE/Lizzy, his fiancee resides.
You thinking of moving to Helsinki Coogar?

dayokanu: apparently all your points are so far away from reality.

You live in a world where newly married who are still coming up in their careers with loads of debt to pay have millions saved up somewhere to afford a sit at home lifestyle for 6yrs.

I told you to put it in figures and see how it makes sense for a family to live on one single income for 6yrs, But like you claim in your world we have companies that would pay maternity salary for the period the mother is away 6-7yrs

Your argument is far from reality in any society

chaircover: joko sibe

Where is my rum and coke jare . . . .Abeg which channel is NCIS on today

stillwater: But times have changed and everyone (husband and wife) must be flexible and be hands on, because we are no more in a communal society. This change should not be relegated to only the women. It would have been easier to do that in those days, because people were literally their own bosses (as in have their own farms, you can take your child to the farm, to the market) and it was a communal society with families living together, so kids have people looking out for them. This african proverb even puts it to light - It takes a village to raise a child.
This is not practical today because you are likely to work for someone else, you can't take your kid to work and you don't even live with your extended families.

But men would rather maintain the status quo (so far it worked for our ancestors, right, why can't it work for us- according to them) and it comes across as if women are rebelling against their nurturing disposition by preaching partnership between husband and wife. Times have changed and some traditions like this need to be tweaked. Both man and woman must be on deck in raising the child. Not only women need to bend her back. YPP made a very important contribution, cos African men have been lying over the years their foremothers didn't work and were sit at home parents.

bukatyne: Well, whatever rocks our boat.

bukatyne: You have lost touch with the Nigerian environ haven't you?

E-banking + debit cards for a woman that sells lace at Balogun market?

Will not be there by 8:00am when by 8:00am different women will be coercing you to patronize them meaning

They had arrived at the market,
Cleaned it up and arranged their goods...

All before 8:00am

LOL! once again that most market women have more flexible hours than working women!

bukatyne: I laugh in Spanish!

A business woman has more flexibility than a 9 - 5 woman?

What will I not hear on NL?

Maybe you are talking about the women who have kiosks outside their houses sha

And the women too, the "what a man can do a woman can do better" mentality has changed their thought processes. 'I must feel important- I must work all my life-'. Forgetting that they're the BIOLOGICAL MOTHER of those kids. The kids need their mother for those first few years. can't stress enough how important that is.

Nashville: You keep running in between NIgeria and the UK choosing whichever you think will support your spurious claims. So I ask again, if you look at the children that run away from home in London, are their parents more likely to live in Chelsea/Kensington or Peckham/East London. Please answer truthfully. Why would a child that has gone to Eton and has admission to study medicine at Cambridge run away from home. Why would a child with a role model, hard working father and mother want to run away from home. On the other side in Peckham where lots of people are on benefits, and the children go to very crappy school, dont you think they are the more likely to run away from home. Children that are already member of gangs as teenagers and the girls mostly pregnant at 18? Please where are the gangs more predominant in London? Chelsea/Kensington to Peckham/Old Kent? Be truthful, which are has reported more gang killings?

So if your wife is not a surgeon, she does not deserve to work? Guy are your really typing this or you just want to argue? Do you think surgeons are the highest paid in the world or UK? Do you know a derivatives trader can make about 5 times more than a surgeon makes? Not sure you know that.

And from the numbers you quote you know nothing about NIgeria's population. We are about 160million people with about half of those under 25. So if you remove retired women and illterate women, then your sample of active educated women (graduates) in the work force is more like 10 million.

On the other hand alot of these women also do business, importation, etc. So to think that just a few earn 100k a month is alarming. In fact you need to change the kind of friends you have as I can see they may not got you very far!

Nashville: Now you must be joking. You mean rich people have more children running away from home than the poor? So let me ask you. For most of the children that run away from home in Lagos, are their parents more likely to live in VI/Ikoyi or Ajegunle/Mushin. So you believe most of the area boys have parents that live in Ikoyi and VI? U really believe that?

Secondly you want your wife to be a top surgeon? Where is she going to start from? From the top? You dont want her to work at all unless she is given the very top job? Seriously mate, what are you thinking. So unless your wife is given the CEO job, then she is better off at home? What experience will make them give her the top job? Chidcare?

Bros did you really say 70k is what women dont earn? Any Oil Company, Bank, Telecomms or Consulting job pays more than that every month. Anyone. Doctors, Lawyers etc all earn more than that. Are you sure you are talking of educated women with some years of experience or are you talking about a village girl looking for a job?

damiso: And THAT Efe is one of the main reasons its not a good idea basically because of how we are. Most Nigerians find it difficult to respect anyone they feel is not financially pulling their weight. It happens among siblings parents sef, the highest earner often gets the most respect.At the other end of the coin too, it takes a reorientation and perhaps some kind of strength of character for some Nigerian women to really really respect a man she out earns. Respect should not necessarily be tied to finance but unfortunately that's how we are.Some Naija men start taking the pi*** when they feel what are you contributing sef,so yeah In the typical naija setting its advisable to please earn your keep to retain your respect.There was this thread on stay at home husbands and some people were like yeah I dont mind.In Naija? Dont think so .Even if you respect your man, na people go help you disrespect am,'common keep quiet there no be your wife dey feed you' .

yellowpawpaw: I love this debate.

To those advocating that women should stay at home let's do a little flashback.

In d olden days, we don't hv career women rather we hv market women. In igboland for example, the women wake up very early to prepare to various town markets. Mind u they trek(no proper means of transportation then). Around 4 pm u c them parking their wares to head home (they r mostly in groups) by d time they reach home, its already dark. The next day, d cycle continues.
For most of us who don't understand what I am saying let me illustrate.

In igboland we hv 4 market days. Afor, nkwo,eke,oye.
Each town has different market days ascribed to their town market eg Eke Awka in Anambra state, Nkwor Nnewi etc. Market women have stalls or shades in those different town markets which they go to to buy and sell.

Invariably, they r mostly not at home and yet run their home affairs successfully.
I think such is still being practised by many.
They were equivelant to today's career women.
So my question is, if those our great grand mothers did that and succeded, pray tell me why today,s women can't be career women and still succeed in the home front.
Mind u also that in those days, men don't help out in d home like they do now. No washing machine, vacuum cleaner,dish washer, personal vehicle, and still go and do farm work. And they give birth like chicken too.
Where and what is the problem pls?

Nashville: so you really think women in nigeria dont earn up to 100k monthly? Chai? We definitely know different kinds of women and i will leave it there. For you to ask how many women make 100k monthly is shocking.

you keep quoting 100k children leave home every year. Do you really think these children belong to parents that both went to oxford where the dad is a banker and the mum works for a top law firm? Or do you think these kids belong to lowly paid or jobless irresponsible parents where both parents live on welfare. Think about it before answering or you can do some more research.

Nashville: Coogar, are you in Helsinki yet or would you rather open Coogar university in the Uk?

dayokanu: Lets start this analysis. How many yrs do you propose a woman stay with a new born child?
How many yrs do you think is the normal child spacing in couples

Now do this calculation for a family having 3 kids and tell me how many yrs the mother would have to stay at home.

What does this have to do with the discussion, if you are working a job that gives a lower take home than a similar person with a lower, then you would drop it.

If the father is working the same hours as he was when they were just a family of 2 working adults, then there would be a drop in family income

If you raise your kids in Peckham or a project because you are operating on a single income there is little you can do to stop the negative influences

dayokanu: You are the one getting it wrong.

A couple starts a family now, They would be in child making for at least 7yrs and they would have kid(s) under 6 for at least 15yrs if they have 3

So for a mother to be at home with any child under 6 would mean the mother is at home for over 10yrs. Who would pay a non working mother for maternity leave for 10yrs in a row?

While the mother is staying home till the first child is 4yrs, she is already pregnant for the second, etc

How does a man retaining his normal hour make up for the loss in income kindly explain

You think so? tell people they wont be getting paid for work and lets see how many ppl would continue working

People work because thats the only means of livelihood

Nashville: But you just suggested that a woman working 9-5pm is an absentee mum. How come it is not applicable to the dads?

dayokanu: The crux of the matter is lost here. Someone has to make the financial gap else the living standard of the family would drop significantly

If husband continues doing what he was doing while the wife stops working entirely then that makes the now BIGGER family depend on one income instead of two
So something has to give.

The 100,000 runway kids have nothing to do with the absent fathers? who probably are working their asses off while the wife is at home?

maybe if the wife works they would live in a better neighborhood where the kids stand a lesser chance of being exposed to vices at an earlier age

dayokanu: Does these quality of life, quality of relationship, quality of sex, spirituality, modesty and family life for quantity of sex, quantity of life, assertiveness, competition exclude the man since he is basically round the clock to cover for two adults or does the family take a cut in their lifestyle?

So how does the FAMILY work when the man is out most of the time and these end up breeding the same problems the society has which is "absent fathers"

Most people work because they need to, If everyone had a rich trust fund to fall back on most ppl wont work I wont work if I has $500m ineritance

Nashville: I guess your six figure salary is in pounds. Well you do not need a six figure salary to put food on the table. In fact the highest tax bracket in the Uk starts at £40,000 which a lot of women earn. It may not be six figures but it sure can put food on the table for a family of three.

We were having an intellectual debate and you dont need to take it personal. Not sure how quality of sex can be improved if a man works tirelessly just for his wife to sit at home. I do not have a problem with women who have chosen to be stay at home mums. It is ok as long as their husbands are fine with it. I have only said it is possible for a woman to have children and a career. It only takes planning.

I love having a confident and fulfilled lady as my wife who can also add value to the lives of her children beyond cooking and cleaning after them. I want a woman who is a help-meet to me and not a house-help. I know you will misquote me that I have said all housewives are house-helps, but we all know better. If it is her choice and she is content and happy being a house wife then so be it. But I will not manipulate or coerce my wife to give up her career because we have children or better still because I always want to control and Lord myself over her.

Nashville: It would not take away the grief but may put food on the table for her kids to eat. And why do you think her salary has to be meagre. You obviously have very little regard for women in general. No wonder you do not think they have anything to contribute!

Nashville: Yes he had a gratuity and savings but how can that pay for three children in private university at the same time and for how long? This is a real life story - no kidding.

Nashville: Please home school your children up to University level and when you are done, you can award them a Bachelor's degree from the Coogar University. Do you guys have post graduate studies too?

So why stay in the UK where they keep your kids in school till 330pm? You and your family should be in Helsinki already.

I thought you needed to give your kids the very best grooming which is obviously unavailable in the UK and only available in such great countries like Finland and Poland (yes kids start schooling at age 7 in Poland too)!

Nashville: If that is the case then your better home school your children and have just you and your wife teach them. Remember school closes at 3:30pm officially for children from ages four and above (reception class). So if you think the school takes too much of your children's time, then dont take them there. After school club is just an extra hour where children can learn things like tennis, swimming, ballet and soccer. Is that too much? Then mummy or daddy can pick them up at 430pm.

My real advice for you is not to send your children to school and have your illiterate wife just watch over them, as I believe you do not need an educated woman too..

Nashville: This thing happened to a family friend. A very educated woman, her husband never allowed her work. The man had a good job but died unexpectedly. She had never worked and at that time it was too late to start anything. Not only did she not have money, she did not know how to manage money. Things became soo bad for her. I really pitied the children. Their father was physically dead and their mother was not very helpful economically. These things happen o!

Nashville: You claim you live in the UK, so I will use the UK example. When a woman gives birth, most companies give upto 12 months of maternity leave with at least 6 months paid. My own company gives women upto 18 months with 9 months paid. In fact men can now take up to 6 months of paternity leave if the wife has to go to work. So first of all the arguement is not having a child today and starting work next month.

So fast forward to four years time when the child starts reception. At reception, the child goes to school till 3:30pm. Most schools even have after school activities for another 1 or 2 hours. Lets even say one hour. So, between the hours of 830pm to 430pm or 530pm, the child is in school. Please tell me what the mother should be doing between 830am and 430pm or even 530pm. Please explain why the mother should be at home during this period when the child is in school. You probably say she is at home praying for the child. But please explain.

dayokanu: In the US its been found out that the absence of fathers in the life a children leads to a lifetime of crime especially in black families

So what does the children and the family gain when they barely see their father because he has to work round the clock to provide or when would the wife not cheat when the husband is basically absent.

It's as good as father in another country as long as he sends money home

ireneidiva: Coogar society has changed, u'll be suprised at just how domestic some men can be. Weda you pay in her bank acc or not, its stil you that gave her! And its stil you that can stop it anytime.

bilms: This is an educative debate that should hit the fp i guess? Mod pls

ireneidiva: the milk can be stored you know? Women that work still come home to their families after the work, you know? Well its your choice, find that woman you'll instruct to stop work because of kids and marry. Give her money before you leave for work everyday for her hair, bis, feeding, sanitary pad etc. If you are very comfortable with it, cool.

dayokanu: Would it be ideal if the husband works 24hrs to cater for the family and barely sees the children because he has toprovide and do the job of the two parents in one body.

ireneidiva: nah, you are not. Raising a kid is the work of both parents not just the mum. You cant say a lady should not pursue a career because she has kids, das a stoneage mentality. Afterall its the kids she is hustling for.

ireneidiva: Coogar i hope your point is nt that a woman should leave her career. Anyway my own advice is that you can have it all. Get a nanny for your kids when your job takes you away, marry an understanding man. And finally, remember that excuse is d shortest way to failure, many married women are in top positions, it wasn't easy but they did it! Nothing good comes easy

Nashville: Not sure any good thing comes easy in life except your dad is Dangote or Bill Gates. We all know the first few years are tough everywhere in the world. I have lived in the US, UK and Nigeria and raising a family is not easy anywhere, especially the first 5 - 7 years. While I will not support my wife to have a consulting job that takes her out of town all the time, I just cannot understand how you can say a woman have a 9-5pm day job is incompatible with raising a family.

To Damiso's example, your company is a bit harsh cos I have worked in the Uk and there have been several instances where I have had to go in late or not show up at all just to watch my kids school play or take them to school. It all depends on the nature of the job.

Mind you, let us not talk as if, bringing up the children is the mother's responsibility. This responsibility should be shared and may be what makes it very very difficult for some women is that their husbands dont do anything to help them.

As I said, I will not spend all that money on my daughter for her to be watching African Magic for the rest of her life. God forbid, the man loses his job or becomes incapacitated or even dies young. Can a woman who has never worked or earned an income support the family? Who knows what life will throw at us.