₦airaland Forum

rvp2017:
African trade remains centred on the three countries that have an appreciable manufacturing base — South Africa, Kenya and Egypt.

Egypt - the main exporter of consumer goods within COMESA.
Kenya - the second exporter of consumer goods in COMESA & leading in AGOA.
South Africa - SADC and most of Africa - source of consumer goods & even machinery.

Nigeria - is crying within ECOWAS - that small countries like Togo or Benin are out-compete them? And is now afraid to join the big boys in Africa Free Trade Pact. What a shame.

You hardly understand anything you read, the cry is that goods are easily imported from the West to Togo and Benin, with the Nigerian market as the target where they are sold at a cheaper rate.

rvp2017:
1) Export of what? Oil? Oil is like 95% of you export and revenues remember
2) How can we objectively compare kenya and Nigeria - when you source data [nigeria stats] is COOKED?

When you have no answer, all you cry is cooked data. lt's getting stale already.

rvp2017:
1) Export of what? Oil? Oil is like 95% of you export and revenues remember
2) How can we objectively compare kenya and Nigeria - when you source data [nigeria stats] is COOKED?

Nigerian stats is cooked, then go cook yours, boil it and add ingredients

sufferNsmiling:
I say in nigeria we do not have industries. In 2016 are industrial outputs was 18% of gdp today what is less than 12%. the industries we have do not manufacture all they do is import in bulk and repackage not manufacturing. A good example is powdered milk, butter, salts, cooking oil and a lot more are imported in bulk and repackaged in nigeria. South africa, kenya, ethiopia, ghana, zimbabwe all exports more to us them we export to them. The industries and not there they're just repackaging warehouses. See article below.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/382311/nigeria-gdp-distribution-across-economic-sectors/

l wonder how the article supports your assertion above. You generalize too much, give me facts.

Bifwoli:
No no that's a major lie from a fake "kitchen" economist.

Norway ,Sweden ,Netherlands etc have large GDP's yet they have small populations. High or low Productivity based on the big factor of human development is the real determinant of how large a GDP can be.Don't let a huge GDP like India's or Philippines fools you coz those nations are low productivity GDP 's.

Try to understand the point. Norway, Sweden, Netherlands would have had even larger gdp's if they had larger populations. The countries you mentioned are all wealthier than lndia on the average but they have lesser GDP to that of lndia.

sufferNsmiling:
Our president did not sign because we have no industries left, most of the industries have parked out to other countries example in 1980 japan had 380 industries in nigeria today it is less than 6 industries. Most nigerians invest in other countries billions of us dollar. Our president cannot sign a deal for something we do not have . Over 80% of goods in nigeria are imported so what is he going to sign imported products example palm oil, rice and gary are smuggled into nigeria from benin republic.

Read this from the guardian again to see why we did not sign and not the trash you wrote from feelings and hearsay.

[b]Secondly, critical issues raised by MAN truly require full answers. The area of major concern is how are we going to enforce the rules of Origin? The inconvenient truth is that except for a few countries – Egypt, Morocco, Kenya, Nigeria and South Africa, there is little real, manufacturing going on in much of Africa. Primary commodities yes, but not manufacturing. Today Nigeria perhaps has the largest manufacturing base outside South Africa.

In normal circumstances that should give Nigeria an advantage as it could easily seize the new open market opportunities to dominate the African market in manufactured goods. But experience from the ECOWAS Common External tariff (CET) for example, seem to dampen the enthusiasm of Nigerian manufacturers. It has been alleged that foreign companies set up ‘shell ‘ manufacturing companies in neighburing African countries and simply import finished or almost-finished products into such countries and subsequently off load them on the Nigerian market, often at lower prices than local manufacture. Matter is worsened for Nigerian manufacturers because much of their products are globally uncompetitive due to infrastructural deficits, especially power and the overall high cost of doing business. Thus Nigerian manufacturers suffer double jeopardy.

They cannot easily export to other African Countries because those countries have easy access to cheaper imports from Asia and Latin America especially. And then in the domestic market, the free import of what one may call pseudo- manufactured goods or what really are trans-shipped finished goods using African Countries as ‘transit camps’ compromise the viability of the locally manufactured goods. That is the fear of the local manufacturers.

It is this reality that has made the growth of the export of Nigeria’s manufactured goods to remain dismal and indeed has forced many Nigerian manufacturers to focus almost exclusively on the domestic market. This is the reason crude petroleum has remained the major export and foreign exchange earning item on the Nigeria’s economic menu. But having said all these, I still believe that in the long run it is imperative that Nigeria signs the treaty and joins the Continental Free Trade area (CFTA)[/b]

Muafrika2:
Actually, its Dangote and company who had those concerns ... And that's the disadvantage of having individuals monopolizing the countries businesses...

They will be facing real giants in the manufacturing sector. The fear is understandable actually...

You have been told Dangote is the most well known but not the only capitalist in Nigeria. All you guys talk about is Dangote.

Muafrika2:


Nigeria's fear of the African Free Trade area reminds me of Tanzania and its fear of having to compete with Kenya in the EAC

They should be We'll be there in a flash selling them our fresh food, manufactured goods, petroleum products

The fear is not simply because Nigeria should be compared with Tanzania and Kenya, of course Kenya is too small for Nigeria to be worried about her like Tanzania seemed to have been worried. There are other major concerns which are internal and has to do with the large market, and given that our level of infrastructure do not allow us compete with South Africa in Manufacturing in terms of diversification of our exports.

rvp2017:
While Kenya lead in the share of it's intra-africa trade (48-50%) and recently sign up to Africa free trade pact - Nigeria the GIANT refused to sign up - and admitted it cannot compete in Africa.

Here is a giant who is afraid to mix with the big boys of Africa's manufacturing ( Egypt, South Africa,Morroco and Kenya)

https://guardian.ng/features/justifying-nigerias-inelegant-refusal-to-sign-the-africa-trade-deal/

l also got this from your article...

But when all is considered, I will still think that PMB made the right decision not to attend. Firstly, it was an acknowledgment that though he had failed to consult with the organized private sector prior to getting the FEC’s approval, he regarded the red flag raised by the Manufacturers Association of Nigeria (MAN) especially and the Nigeria Labour Congress (NLC) serious enough.


Despite the embarrassment and the apparent slur on Nigeria’s image and standing by being absent in Kigali as Africa made true history, I salute his courage in deciding to err on the side of caution. It is my thinking that he was showing that Nigeria had learnt lessons from the WTO debacle in 1994. The Nigerian government at the time was criticized severely for rushing to sign the WTO agreements without fully understanding the ramifications of globalisation.

Buhari seemed not to want a repeat, where we would sign this African Trade deal as good as it sounds without a full understanding of its ramifications on local manufacturing and domestic security.

Secondly, critical issues raised by MAN truly require full answers. The area of major concern is how are we going to enforce the rules of Origin? The inconvenient truth is that except for a few countries – Egypt, Morocco, Kenya, Nigeria and South Africa, there is little real, manufacturing going on in much of Africa. Primary commodities yes, but not manufacturing. Today Nigeria perhaps has the largest manufacturing base outside South Africa.

In normal circumstances that should give Nigeria an advantage as it could easily seize the new open market opportunities to dominate the African market in manufactured goods. But experience from the ECOWAS Common External tariff (CET) for example, seem to dampen the enthusiasm of Nigerian manufacturers. It has been alleged that foreign companies set up ‘shell ‘ manufacturing companies in neighburing African countries and simply import finished or almost-finished products into such countries and subsequently off load them on the Nigerian market, often at lower prices than local manufacture. Matter is worsened for Nigerian manufacturers because much of their products are globally uncompetitive due to infrastructural deficits, especially power and the overall high cost of doing business. Thus Nigerian manufacturers suffer double jeopardy.

They cannot easily export to other African Countries because those countries have easy access to cheaper imports from Asia and Latin America especially. And then in the domestic market, the free import of what one may call pseudo- manufactured goods or what really are trans-shipped finished goods using African Countries as ‘transit camps’ compromise the viability of the locally manufactured goods. That is the fear of the local manufacturers.

It is this reality that has made the growth of the export of Nigeria’s manufactured goods to remain dismal and indeed has forced many Nigerian manufacturers to focus almost exclusively on the domestic market. This is the reason crude petroleum has remained the major export and foreign exchange earning item on the Nigeria’s economic menu. But having said all these, I still believe that in the long run it is imperative that Nigeria signs the treaty and joins the Continental Free Trade area (CFTA).

rvp2017:
Do you have white nigerians Kenya has nearly 100,000 whites who consider Kenya their home. Some in their 5th generation.

The question is why are they the foremost billionaires? 100,000 out of 45million people is still too small yet they dominate, and yes we have white Nigerians mainly Lebanese.

samsobo24:
in fact,is there any white man among the top 50 richest in Nigeria

l don't think so.

rvp2017:
We don't have any indian there. Those are 3rd generation Kenyans of indian origin. You see unlike South Africa or Nigeria - there is no oil field or gold mine - one can grab or bribe and just become a billionaire like in Nigeria.Still they are many Africans who are making serious money in Kenya.

Why are they the foremost Entrepreneurs? We have 3rd generation Lebanese too.

samsobo24:
BTW

Nigerian top businesses are owned by Nigerians and are among the best,if the not the best because of SA European owned businesses

Thank you, that's the major difference, it's majorly Nigerians who are the billionaires and millionaires in Nigeria, and so l wonder what the Indians are doing in the Kenyan top list of Millionares.

rvp2017:
Dollars. Let not try NAIRA - coz that it one worthless currency.

ok, and the purchasing power of the shillings, is it the same as the naira?

rvp2017:
Which is why it's irrelevant. And we have compared your clean millionaires & we are closing on you. The 500B dollar economy of 200M has only 15,000 against 10,000!!!!!!!

Currency, besides you only mention the Kenyatta family as the corrupt politicians hiding money.

rvp2017:
And who told you we don't have kenya indigenous enterprenuers.

You've have Tony Elmelu - we have James Mwangi (of Equity Bank).

Then why are the Kenyan indigenous entrepreneurs not taking over your country? rather the Indians are the foremost entrepreneurs in Kenya.

rvp2017:
If you're interested in dollar billionaires in kenya who'll never make to any forbes list - here they are
1) Moi
2) Kenyatta
-name them - politician - with hidden bank accounts all over the world - who've stolen for many years. Moi and Kenyatta have each combined stolen for 25yrs. You don't think Dangote or whoever - who depend on stock exchange value of the wealth - can measure with politician who steal 10-30% of the budget each yr.
https://answersafrica.com/richest-people-kenya.html

And so Nigerians don't have politicians like that too?

rvp2017:
Kenya has $2B dollar overdraft facility with IMF. Why on earth would you borrow 200M dollars if you're a 500B economy. Borrow 5B dollars..at least even 1% of your GDP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why even borrow from WB or IMF - if you're 500B dollar economy?? unless you cooked it ! overcooked it.

Do you think South Africa go borrowing 200M from WB?

500B dollar economy should already have serious debt market - Nigeria debt market - should be lending to kenya.

He spoke of only one state.

naijalander:
Your not making any sense, a nation if 150m people relying on 1 guy?

does that even make sense to you? Dangote is not even that big a deal in Nigeria, there are rich entrpreneurs every where in Nigeria and there is plenty proof of it. How many Kenyans ever make it to Forbes top 10, how many Kenyan companies can be compared to your average Nigerian multinational.

This is the dumbest statement you have made on this thread.

lol, it's interesting he thinks Dangore is our only industrialist, he doesn't know that for a long time we have been exporting industrialists, Doctors and even lawyers to our West African neighbours.
We have so many Entrepreneurs across the country and Lagos is a melting pot of so many businesses both oil dependent and non oil dependent.

NairobiWalker:
I've heard from many Nigerians that Aliko Dangote is a beneficiary of Nigerian prebendalism and was and is very connected amongst Nigeria's corrupt political class. Whenever Dangote tries to invest outside Nigeria - especially outside West Africa, he faces a situation where he's just like any other businessman with no connection advantage at best or where it's his business rivals who are connected at worst. This is the reason he's always complaining about other African nations being corrupt whenever he tries to invest outside Nigeria. He complained about Tanzania, Ethiopia and now Kenya. That's reality hitting him hard - sometimes you're so used to corruption working in your favor it's hard to comprehend fair competition or corruption working against you.

Dangote is also not doing badly outside Nigeria.

rvp2017:
If they based this or weighted this based on Nigeria cooked GDP - then I am not surprised.

You must always find a means of rigging yourself out when you are caught . You mustn't confirm to your bias always, it's becoming childish l must say.

Danielnino00:
Wow! that means Luanda is way ahead of the likes of Paris,Barcelona,Manchester..... cus those cities don't have up to 50 skyscrapers like u claimed for Luanda



Seems like having skyscrapers is the best way to classify a city these days.... Maybe u are Ahmetopzuid's Kenya half brother

To the clown, number of skyscrapers determines your level of development. Can you beat that?

rvp2017:
Angola has less oil - but they can teach you alot - how to transform dirty crude oil to modern cities. Luanda is slowly emerging as the Rio of Africa.
https://cdn.thecrazytourist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Saint-Michael-Fortress.jpg

Angola is not a good example to use. Research more on Angola currently.
You know nothing at all.

rvp2017:
Are we going to again do the number of Skyscrapper in Africa cities. Both Nairobi and Luanda beat Lagos. Let not repeat this. Be ashamed that you've wasted all your OIL.

Ok now l get, you are an old moniker probably Nairobi walker or Kenyatta.

obaaderemi:
He's lying. Always take what RSVP says with a pinch of salt. Luanda as at today has only 4 skyscrapers above 100m. Eko Atlantic alone has more than that.

Luanda, Angola
Buildings See All Buildings in City
1
IMOB Business Tower
2018
145 m
2
Edificio Kilamba
2017
107 m
3
Intercontinental Hotel & Casino
2014
104 m
4
ESCOM Building
2009
102 m
5
Edificio Sonangol
2007
95 m
CTBUH Height Criteria
Completed
Arch. Topped Out
Struct. Topped Out
Under Constr.
CTBUH Home • About the Database • Contact Us
© 2018 Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat

lol, l was even willing to give him that but the guy thinks posting pictures of so called high rises is what makes Luanda ahead of Lagos. A very funny guy l tell you.

rvp2017:
Dude thanks goodness for pictures. Luanda is I admit now better than Nairobi. Thank goodness they speak portuguese - so we are just hanging in there as the 3r or 4th - definitely after Cairo and Joburg. The slum metropolis of LAGOS and KINSHASA don't count.
https://static.brusselsairlines.com/_img/destinationPage2/Africa/Angola/Luanda-city.jpg

See what OIL has done to Luanda...just imagine what it could have done to Nigeria..if you were not the scum of the earth?

More picture of Luanda - YOU CANNOT FAKE THESE THINGS.
https://dailypost.ng/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Luanda.jpg

lol ok l hear you Mr Google but still Luanda is not at the level of Lagos not even in terms of the cost of living.
When it comes to high rises, it's nothing new, Lagos has so many and you already know, so spare me your bullshit.

rvp2017:
Dream on. Visit Angola's Luanda if you don't like Nairobi and see what 10yrs of Oil can do - then go back to Nigeria and ask where 50yrs of Oil has gone. Don't even delude yourself about Cairo or Joburg.Luanda in 10yrs has 50 sky-scrappers(100M talk building) completed - about twice what you got in 50yrs. Always remember Nairobi is way nicer than Lagos can dream about.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/822/39393570930_9bc9216da2_o.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSeWLIlWAAEBcpl.jpg

Then wait for Dangote to do everything that your gov has been unable to do 60yrs since independence.

W
Lagos is a Mega city, and only Cairo can be compared to her in that aspect. Also Luanda may have more structures or high rises but that's just it.

frer8:
President Uhuru Kenyatta with Member of Parliament for Portsmouth North and Secretary of State for International Development (DfID) Penny Mordaunt and the Chairman of the London Stock Exchange Group Donald Brydon, when he opened the market at the London Stock Exchange. Also present are CS Foreign Affairs and International Trade, Amb. Monicah Juma, CS Industry, Trade and Cooperative Adan Mohammed, PS State Department of Petroleum Mr. Andrew Kamau and High Commissioner of Kenya to the United Kingdom H.E. Lazarus Amayo.

And why is this on a Nigerian forum? what does it have to do with anything?

Obi1kenobi:
You have serious comprehension issues. One of the 36 states in the country and hardly one of the richer ones, were granted a $350m loan by World Bank, but the National Assembly scuppered it. It's not a Federal loan. Seems Kenyan education didn't do much for you.

You are wasting your time with that guy, don't indulge him.

frer8:
No one is saying that Kenya is the best in Africa or the world! But I would choose to live in Tanzania over Nigeria never mind SA,Egypt or Morocco !Nigeria might have a bigger GDP but i would say Ghana is more organised and a much more better place to live than Nigeria!

Tell us something new please.

rvp2017:
First understand what GDP is and we can proceed. Population has NO bearing. It only comes into play during Per Capita calculation. What is measured is good and services produced/consumed. Our Kenyan tea is measured based on quantity produced and prices it fetches - and the same case with service sectors.

I'd love to hear how Nigeria telcom sector contribute 10% of the 500B USD! This Nigeria GDP is intriguing. It's audacious in the way it's overcooked.

Sadly for you - nobody believe it.

1) NO lender believes it - so you're not getting any loan soon.Kenya when it's issued it Euro-bond (now 4B dollars) it was oversubscribed by 8000%. Chinese have pumped loans worth more than 10B dollars. Because we have revenue (taxes) that can repay the loan. Nigeria with measly 36B budget - cannot even pay decent wages to teacher or army.

2) NO Investor believes it- so no FDI for you. You have to wait for sole man Dangote to try his monopolistic and corrupt ways.

SO your GDP is basically useless...except for lying Nigeria politician to cheat you that "Nigeria is Africa GIANT". Really - when did South Africa and Egypt die

Again for the last time ( tired of repeating myself). Population is a major ingredient influencing GDP growth( or a factor in a large or small gdp) but GDP by itself is not measured based on population? Do l still need to break this down or do you want to google?

rvp2017:
Sorry but Kenya has been fixing and improving things. Education - we use to send more student to US and rest than Nigeria (yeah giant of 200m!!) but from 2008 - we started investing massively in our universities...from 7 public universities and 4 private one a decade ag - we now have more than 60 universities!!! And Kenyans are not flying abroad to study - unless it's to IVY league schools.

Enrollment has shot up from 50,000 to nearly 0.5M now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See the last decade huge investment in Universities here - buying off Nairobi Skyscrappers for town campus - leave alone huge expansive campus where their main campus lies.
Nairobi university - 20 floors
https://dvcaf.uonbi.ac.ke/sites/default/files/centraladmin/dvcaf/UoN%20tower%20and%20fountain%20main%20campus_2.jpg
Moi University Nairobi Campus - that whole building.
https://campusnairobi.mu.ac.ke/images/bazaar.png
Jomo Kenyatta Nairobi campus - that whole building belong to them.
https://content.knightfrank.com/property/kecom025/images/e8660b90-c379-4a39-ae94-bd0a70b03853-0.jpg
Mt Kenya University Nairobi Campus -
https://www.myspotfinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Nairobi-Campus-Mt-Kenya-University.png
KEMU university
https://www.the-star.co.ke/sites/default/files/styles/new_full_content/public/1101538.jpg?itok=SEa3OFwg
Maseno University - Kisumu
[img]https://masenoonlinenoticeboard.files./2013/08/image21.jpg[/img]

So you have just 60 universities and for that you wouldn't let us be?