IamMichael:

At least know the meaning of the words you use so that you don't mix up facts and make wrong conclusions.

So how does your quote invalidate whatever I said? You are a funny one, albeit interesting, lol.

IamMichael:

You are just running in circles.

Why do you call Atheists Atheists?

I call atheists atheists, because they don't believe anything at all was the first cause.

Deists believe that something was the first cause, and religious people believe that too. Agnostics don't know, but may be open to it. Atheists as we have come to know them are the very opposite of theists, they reject the question of the first cause. To them there is no first cause, and we are just here.

To understand more about atheism, read about the German philosopher Nietzsche.
Of course we are all atheiststic and agnostic to other things, but specifically the term atheism is a philosophical ( not necessarily religious) question of the concept of God as the source of everything.

IamMichael:

100%.


You can't be a Freethinker and not be open-minded!

lol, you are not simply a free thinker because you don't believe in God or because you reject religious gods. At best you should not be an atheist, you should be willing to consider all angles, there are lots of things we don't know yet. So this is the reason I don't see the relationship between atheism and free thinking.
Many atheists boldly tell religious folks there is no god. All atheists I know are not open to the supernatural( even if they don't believe in it). How is that free thinking?
Are you open to anything? the fact that you look down on religious people makes me think you are not as open minded as you claim.

BTW, you can be a free thinker and yet decide to be close minded or adamant due to your inherent bias.

Atheism is not simply a worldview on the fence, it makes some assumptions by default. For the fact that it rejects God philosophically

IamMichael:

They barely are. It's just few of them who do travel out their immediate environment that are open minded.

Are you open minded?

IamMichael:

Lol.

When are you finally going to realise you are arguing against your points?

All you are doing is stamp everything I'm saying with the stamp of authority.


Your other brethren has stopped replying the moment he was asked a question he knows he cant wriggle his way out of. However, you still continue to buttress my own point better with every reply you give.

Are deists also atheists? if so, then everyone is an atheist, and then the term atheism becomes meaningless.

Xavfra:



Religiousness makes you close minded not atheism.....


I've seen and heard Christians say that God is infallible and the Bible and.him ain't questionable.......isn't that close mindedness .....

There's this Christians I was discussing with here, I raised some points about God, but he dodged it and that's what every religious person I've met does

Atheism can also be made a religion. By default it is a naturalistic religion, just like deism.
Atheists like religious people also assume things from a particular point of view, and most times it could be difficult to reason with them. Same goes for theists.

Christians can be close minded yes, but I have heard and seen atheists who do not even want to accept that there could be more to the physical world we perceive with our five senses. Atheists who adamantly tout evolution religiously, but understand nada about it, etc.

IamMichael:


- Atheism = disbelief in the existence of God or god's.

Your definition is making my point. You disbelieve in Gods or God or such a concept in the first place. It doesn't say because you disbelieve in certain gods or the gods of religion, but that you disbelieve in the concept.

There is a reason we don't call Agnostics and Deists atheists, even though they like you accept no religious God.

IamMichael:

If you don't believe in Allah, that places you exactly as an atheist within the meaning of Atheism.


Here let me put it simply for you to understand.

- Daejoyoung doesn't believe in Allah.
- Atheism = disbelief in the existence of God or god's.
Is Allah a God or god's? Yes, Allah is a God/god because 1billion+ people worship Allah as their Almighty God and venerate him.
- Therefore Daejoyoung doesn't believe in the Almighty God of 1billion+ people.

==>- Atheism = disbelief in the existence of God or god's.

Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God ( any God). It doesn't say atheism is disbelief in the existence of a God or some Gods.

So in that sense, the fact that I ever considered the question of God as relevant, even relevant enough to have my Spaghetti Monster, means the question of God philosophically to me is not an irrelevant question. To the atheist, it is irrelevant. Try to digest what I said, rather than repeating yourself, because by default you assume I don't know what you are trying to say.

You are making a false comparison, and I understood that from the beginning. You are the one ignoring my points.

IamMichael:

Atheism simply means disbelief in god's.


Whether or not you believe in your god or that he created the universe is not the atheist's concern.

Do you go about bothering whether or not Santa Claus is real? Do you go about bothering yourself whether or not Allah is real?

You don't bother about them because you believe they're not real, and that your God is the only actual real authentic God. That disbelief you have of other gods is what Atheism is.

The difference between the people you call Atheists and you is that you are still holding unto one more god. In the case of the Atheist, he has discarded it all and saying all of them are not real.
In your own case, you are holding one more god in your belief, and have discarded the rest as not real. Some people have multiple god's they worship too.

I hope you do get the point!

We are going round in circles, from my first post I told you the definition of atheism is a question of God from a philosophical stand point.

I would simply call you an unbeliever if you are open to the existence of a GOD AS SOURCE but I would never call you an atheist.
That is the bone of contention here, it doesn't matter what or who this God is.

The question is: Are you open to calling anything GOD? you may even believe your phone is God and should be worshipped, and you are no longer an atheist to me. It doesn't mean I also believe your phone is a real god.

Xavfra:



That's why I said a greater part......
Free minded as an atheist is that you're able to let in new information into your head (it's your duty to scrutinise it)

I've as well argued with fanatical Christians and most if not all I've met aren't open minded

Any religous person can allow new information as well. Atheism sometimes makes you close minded too, because you come from a naturalistic world view by default and you interprete everything from that lens, just like Christians who believe in the spiritual want to view things from that lens.

IamMichael:


Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?


This is a very simple Yes or No answer. Whether there are people who worship it is not the question you are asked.
That you believe in Spaghetti Monster is not what is asked you.

I have told you no, lol.
So how does that prove your point?
I answered your question in my last post as NO.

I don't believe in Allah, so how does that make me an atheist? since you wanna go round in circles, or it may just be that you don't even understand what you are talking about.

IamMichael:

You are not getting the point.

That you believe in something is not the point here. The point is, do you believe their god is the real god in the same way you believe in yours?

No but that is not the position of the atheist. I believe the world requires a creator, I believe in the need for a god, the atheist does not.

It's a simple sturv.

IamMichael:

I don't like digressions.

Lets end this discuss with a simple question.

Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?

Allah is something or a being the muslim believes in, he is taken as Almighty by muslims, therefore I know that muslims are not atheists. Even though I disagree with them.

As for me, I believe in the spaghetti monster as the only true god, and the Muslim cannot call me an atheist for believing in the flying spaghetti monster.

Even though the muslim and I both disbelieve in the flying monster and Allah respectively, we are not atheists in the true sense of the word, when thinking about each other, we just see each other as unbelievers and pagans, not atheists.

Atheists don't even have a santa clause or flying monster or Allah/jesus, etc.

IamMichael:


Does your disbelieve that the Muslim god is not superior to your own god make muslims bow down to your god as the superior Almighty Lord?

You answer that.

No, but the muslims know that I believe in something. Something as a source, even if they want to call it Santa claus.

But both I and the Muslim know that atheists don't believe in anything. Not even Santa Clause.

You get the difference?

Xavfra:



Not exactly but a greater part......

How is that actually? some believe in God but are not fans of doctrines and religious stories. Some are fans of these stories, but are not fanatics. So even then there are different types of religious and non religious people. I have argued with fanatical atheists here too.

IamMichael:

Go back to the op bro. You seem to be digressing!

You are the one digressing here, the op states that christians and muslims are atheists to other religions for not accepting those gods. We aren't debating proof of a god here, so why bring that up in my first reply to you?
The point is that muslims and Christians are not atheists in the way the word is used today, the Romans called Christians atheists then ( I know), but today atheism is philosophical. When you say someone is an atheist, it means the person rejects a being or external power as the source of our existence.

Xavfra:



That's the benefit of.atheism it makes you free minded

So the fact that you don't believe in a god or gods makes you free minded? Interesting.

IamMichael:



a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.


Your problem is that you are still restricting your understanding of Atheism within the confines of your belief in the superiority of your own religious god!!!

Remove that veil, and you will get the point!

Understand this simple concept that whether or not you think your god is the everything and everything does not make your god superior in the eyes of another person who worships a different being altogether.

Every religious worshipper think's their god(s) is the real god. So long as you believe that your God is the real and only one, you are atheistic to the other god's. In other words, you don't believe in their god's. Which means, to a Muslim, you are an infidel. To you, muslims are unbelievers. Christians think traditional worshipper's worship idol, traditional worshipper's think you are desecrating their land with your lifeless god.

You call me an atheist because I don't believe in your god. A Muslim will also call you an atheist because you don't believe in their god. You can't claim not to be an atheist to the muslim god because you have not acknowledged that their god is real. Because you believe their god is not real, it makes you an atheist because Atheism means==>

Since you disbelieve in the Muslim god, you are an atheist as far as the 1billion+ Muslims are concerned.

I hope you do get the point!

What if a christian doesn't disbelieve in the existence of the muslim god, but simply believes his Christian God is superior? would your theory still hold?

stanliwise:
This what I have been basically trying to say in this group since that a CS person may not really know how to program but they have knowledge of human they can work around data efficiently.
A CS guy + a programmer can do practically anything in the computer world. A CS person is more incline to data efficiency why a programmer is more incline to communicating to computer. This two people can be one person. also it could be two different persons.

My confusion is how does the CS person practically carry out data efficiency? isn't programming also the practical way of doing so?

IamMichael:


Lol. No be by force to believe in something wey no dey exist na. Are Atheists not living their peaceful life without god in it?
When you enjoy things produced by Atheists, do you complain?

I just don't know why disbelief in something that no-one can prove is a big deal!

Just imagine how you will look at someone forcing you to believe that Santa Claus is real. Won't you wonder what is wrong with the person?

Are you talking about proof of the existence of a God? or you are simply saying that religious people are atheists too?

Many religious people do not doubt the existence of the gods of some other religions for instance, they just believe they are devils. e.g it is not uncommon for a Christian to say Ahmadioah is a demon, that christian is not necessarily questioning the existence of ahmadioah but rather he is saying Ahmadioah is the devil ( enemy of both man and God).

So let me get your arguement straight, are you talking about proof of the existence of God? or you are simply saying the ACCEPTANCE of only one God, makes muslims and Christians atheists to other religious people?

I think at the core, the major question is more philosophical than anything else. Do atheists believe that something or someone is responsible for our existence? It doesn't matter whether you call that thing God or not.
All religous folks ( no matter what religion) believe in something, but not atheists.

Kobojunkie:
Yet, The same Righteous and All-Wise God said He is ALL-Powerful, and ALL-Knowing. Are you suggesting that God lies?
He got busy? Too busy to watch over our every move as He said He does?

What exactly do you mean by all powerful or all knowing? By all powerful, does it mean God can create a stone that he can't lift?
Christians get the idea that God is all knowing mostly from the psalms, but what does that mean? Does God know every detail of the future already, does he know what we would keep doing, or does he know what our choice would be on every single occasion?
God watches over our every move, but that may not have been his intention of creating humans, humans probably still don't want to grow well enough to look after themselves, and become mini gods.

Alessandro9021:



About the kids, I am trying to donate whenever I have extra money, about adoption, it's important but I need more wealth for that.

About the quotes you have given, it's nice and all. But I can explain this with just human kindness and empathy, which is biological.

You were the one who brought up praying for homeless kids, and so he told you...Nowhere does the Christian Bible command us to pray for homeless kids, but to practically help them in order to inherit the kingdom of God.

Now you are diverting the arguement again, by bringing in human empathy, that was not your initial premise, you initially made it seem like Christians only pray for hungry and homeless children, or like they were commanded to do so.

This world is an imperfect world already. You are right that there is evil in the world, but what if part of our mission here is to solve most of these problems or learn from them or perhaps turn things around for our good.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as all powerful, or all knowing, there is only the all wise and all righteous God in my opinion .
God may have created the world half way,but got busy with other planets or things along the way, and then created humans who would also carry his spirit of wisdom as vessels to do some of his work on earth.

shadeyinka:

I agree very well with you. How can one learn OS development without having an experience of programming it and testing it?

It the same problem with our research and education system in Nigeria. No purpose, no direction and no destination. Education in Nigeria is just for the aim of having a certificate nothing more!

That's why our engineers are just Installation engineers
Our scientists are just ceremonial scientists.

Unless a person builds himself, he knows nothing!

God help us

I think you guys are sometimes too harsh on Nigeria. The Nigerian educational curriculum was copied from the West, and so it is almost thesame. Schools abroad also teach more theory generally as they prepare you for research than anything else.
The only difference I see is that Nigeria lacks the infrastructure generally or major IT companies for internship as indicated by someone earlier.

ARCHEMEDESME:
I've been wondering ; what would be the best way to learn programming for a beginner ? .
option 1 : just pick up some books and videos on a particular aspect and build lots of projects
e.g : Learn python the hard way
Option 2 : start by learning the basics of programming in a particular language by using MOOC's .
E.g : introduction to programming in Python.

Learn the basics first, but don't spend time on the basics then immediately go to option 1, then go back to the basics, then go to option 1 again.

Yes you are still a Christian from my point of view, because no where in the bible is it stated that you must believe every single story in those 66 books to become a Christian.
Fables were common in the ancient world, therefore read them as part of the Israelite fables, and of course God can also speak through these fables.

Dantedasz:


He interpreted it wrongly.
Isiah Chapter 7 is self explanatory.
I appreciate the mature way you carry out your debate.
Cheers.

Thanks and Cheers.

Dtruthspeaker:


There is no way that you want to look at sex, which will not invite lust which is evil. So a wise solution would be kill sex, Lust Dies!

For it is written that
Matthew 22:30
“For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.”

Is lust for food a bad thing? We would eat in heaven but now as holy beings, we know that overfeeding is a sin, in thesame way, why not have sex in a holy way?
I know you have bible portions to support your argument though, I am only wondering why, if there is food then why no sex? Afterall there would be no sexually transmitted diseases, and God could just abolish pregnancy from nature, to make it all about fun.

Dantedasz:



Oga,
Just so you know Isiah Chapter 7 verse 14 is NOT even talking about Jesus Christ but an entirely DIFFERENT virgin birth which the author of Matthews gospel cunningly and probably ignorantly ascribed to the Jesus virgin birth story for his own reasons.

Matthew interpreted it to be about jesus.

Dtruthspeaker:


Ah, Toilet go dey now, after all, house dey plenty.

Remember, Evil is Dead then, therefore, All our Shits Must Be Goood Shit! ,

Sex is also Abolished! Too Much Wahala don comot from there, so, No Sex!

I think you are taking the bible too literally. So when jesus says there are many mansions in my father's house, you interprete this as real mansions with toilets and kitchens?
Also sex is not a problem, sex like food are part of the things we enjoy in this world.
If sex is been misused in this world, then it would not be misused in the next world, since we have now all become holy.

shadeyinka:

You have measured forever in terms of time but no. Forever imply that time spent doesn't exist (time for is meaningless).

For you to comprehend this: in dreams how long is time? Time is meaningless in dreams. A person can have a dream of 5 minutes yet have a dream equivalent to months.

Everlasting life just simply is where time is meaningless

Time would not be meaningless if there's no end to the experience.
Would the person ever leave the fire? even dreams at least come to an end.