₦airaland Forum

Image123:
Your rant/argument is unreasonable. You are the one seeing contradiction simply because you don't understand the Bible. Those of us that understand have no problem and see no contradiction. Your God-given commonsense should tell you that is never the meaning as the same Moses immediately went on to ask to see God and was denied. Believe what you want to, it adds and takes nothing away, you remain the grunting, grumbling loser, not me, never God.

Looser of what exactly?

Deejay1000:
you don't have to pity them live your life let them live there's. there is no compulsion in religion if they don't like it they can change, so stop pitying for other people and live your own life

Its normal to feel for people that are oppressed and can not help themselves.

The people I pity the most are muslim women. I wonder and can't get why they happily follow a system that enslaves and doesn't promote them as women and offers anything good for them here on earth and in the so called life after. I truly pity muslim wome sincerely speaking. They happily follow this religion that promotes the male gender above them and degrades them.

Any body that believes in hell is a terrorist.

Deicide:
Corruption is the source of all our problem! take away corruption from every soul in Nigeria that's when you would know how Great this country is, take it away from all Africans and you would know How great and How really intellectual we are asAfricans

You think we are more corrupt than the whites? They had to acknowledge that it is a problem that will not allow them move forward. They built institutions and systems that helped them solve their problems and move forward while we are still here crying baa baa baaa, meh meh meh.

neocortex:
I see many posters oversimplifying a very complex phenomenon, unless
you want us to believe that the whites miraculously became intelligent in the
17th century, the argument of a superior intelligence is not sound.

As any informed person knows, knowledge is not
created out of vacuum but adapted from previous
knowledge.

Before the renaissance and the industrial revolution, the Europeans were
largely in the dark ages of superstition and they are not different from
every other civilization surrounding them.

The game changer for the Europeans was the translation
of middle eastern and asian scholarly work into Latin, it is at this
point that some thinkers recognised the potential of scientific enquiry,
and put great effort into further research and disseminating knowledge
to the society.

So, two things awakened the Europeans, publicly accessible
knowledge, war and stability.

The romans invaded Britain around the first century, destroyed
much of the country, kill their leaders and installed puppets.
Guess what, the Brits didn't wallow in self pity, they didn't
conclude they were less intelligent due to the romans advanced
technology. Instead, they focus their attention on how to move
forward and 400 years later they rose from the ashes.

This is the attitude people that want to move forward need to
have. Expending energy on racial superiority debate will only lead to
self-fulfilling prophecy.

What baffles me most among blacks that are intellectually
above average in knowledge and exposure is that they often
focus on the wrong questions and draw faulty conclusions.

How does the topic of this thread help anyone ?
Will wallowing in self-condemnation and pity move us forward ?

The right question to ask is "how do we move forward as a people ?"
What sacrifice are we to make ?

Backward-deriving of superior intelligence from modern invention
is a naive approach to this discourse.
Invention of the internet does not prove that USA has superior
intelligence any more than the invention of gun powder by the
chinese, it only shows that America was able to harness its
energy into the invention, any other inference is purely imaginative thinking.

The misconception that the whites found life easy due to their
superior intelligence must be dispelled. If you don’t pay the
price, you can’t reap the reward.

Finally, I see many people conflating creativity and intelligence, they
are different and neither do they depend on each other. Recent
research has shown that threshold intelligence is not required for
creativity.

CC Trudax, dalaman

I completely disagree that intelligence and creativity don't go together. They do.

Nobody is saying the whites had it easy. In fact they were just like us at a time doing everything that we are doing. Practising feudalism, unable to lead themselves properly, denying the weakest of them rights and privileges, afraid of change and unable to create a functioning system.

Over time they were able to use their intelligence to know that the way they were living wasn't beneficial to them as a people and tey decided fashion out a functional system out of the old one they had. We have refused to do that. We have refused to change, we have refused to drop the aspects of our culture and traditions that are holding us from making progress as a people. We have refused to use our brains and come together to solve our problems. Do intelligent people practice the stupid tribalism and feudalism we practice? Do intelligent people keep holding unto a system that is holding them back without dropping them? If we are equally as intelligent then we should be able to create functional societies like them period. We have failed in leading ourselves, failed in creating systems that will solve our problems, failed in doing away with our old ways that has stopped us from progressing. It takes a certain level of intelligence to acknowledge that you have problems and then look for ways to solve them. We have refused to demonstrate that we have that ability to solve our problems.

Trudax:
It seems you people have a hard time comprehending what "on the average" means.

Mehn, I am out of here. Keep consoling yourselves all you want with your sentimental, unobjective responses and sharing of likes among yourselves. I am done with this discussion. I reside in Nigeria, most of you don't. Intelligence doesn't only reflect in academic performance, it reflects in the way people think and behave. And majority of Nigerians don't think and behave like intelligent people. This is a fact. And this is why we are lagging behind in development.

Have a nice day or night, or whatever.

Its that simple. Majority of Nigerians don't Iive and act like intelligent people.

KingEbukaNaija:
I think you are asking the wrong questions and drawing the wrong conclusions . The question should be : since we do excel and dominate in diverse areas in life just like the whites , why haven't we as a race achieved as much as they have ?

Dominate on which intellectual field? Where are out tech companies that attract talents from all over the world? Where are our cutting edge inventions and discoveries that mavel the world? Who are we dominating? Stop dreaming my friend. We still remain at the bottom of the food chain yet you are still spewing all these things. Wake up from your dream my friend.

KingEbukaNaija:
IBM , Microsoft Inc , Apple , HP - all these tech giants have blacks working in them . Big companies that make outstanding inventions are multiracial . You wanted to know if blacks made inventions , I provided evidence they did . What else do you want ? Wealth ? The richest man who ever lived is a black man from Mali .

Most of these inventions you think are from the whites are actually as a result of collective efforts involving people of different races , attributing it to just one race - the Caucasian - is due to inferiority complex . Black people as well as people from other races excel in the areas of science and technology . Black people even dominate in some areas like sports .

To say that Africans and Europeans are equally creative is to lie to yourself. Where are the African fortune 500 companies? I have worked in one of the biggest tech companies in Germany so you are yet to provide any convincing argument.

Of course we have our own inventors but they pale when compared to those of the whites period. Name any discovery that the black man has made that is as important as the Internet, the car or the air plane? Why are we not pace setters? Why are we not creating and owing companies like Apple, Google, Walmart, Toyota, Honda, GM, Citizen, Swatch etc.

Why are we not able to organize ourselves and solve our problems as a people? Why are we not able to display the good ledership they've shown? Why can't we create functional societies? Why are we being totally dominated by them? Why are we at the bottom of the food chain a d everybody's foot mat if we are as intelligent as they are? We can't even feed our selves well, yet you are trying to say that we are as intelligent as people that have solved most of their problems.

KingEbukaNaija:
Aren't inventions proofs of creativity and ingenuity ?

It is, but at what level? Compare ours with theirs na.

sauerr:
Again, you make the same arguments, but you didn't answer any of my own questions. I asked, "which country is it?". "The white man" is too broad a generalization. And why does the United States score consistently low on pisa scores, but demonstrate the most functioning society on earth? A cursory observation confirms the US has scored consistently lower over the years as more countries (especially Asian ones) up their level of nurture for students.

Now, to you argument. I repeat, intelligence does not end with demonstrating a functioning society, solving your problems, good leadership abilities, etc. It encompasses that and much more, but is strongly determined by anyone's present constitution. That's just the simple truth. A man locked up in a prison cell who desires to see sunlight badly will begin conjuring up fantastic means of escape from his cell and may eventually become exhaustively good at it. Of course, provided that his is priority. Another man would simply sleep on in his cell, not minding when his freedom would come. Does this mean that the second man is unable to conjure up escape methods if he puts his mind to it? Don't say "no"; you can't imagine the creativity desperation inspires.

I agree with your assessment that we have not demonstrated the same level of intelligence as these Europeans. That's as far as I go with you. I see no basis for arriving at the conclusion that following this, we are doomed unable to demonstrate the same level of intelligence as Europeans, irrespective of how much we set out mind to it or how much nurture we get while doing that. Like the man who has set his mind to sleep on and not be bothered, we are not attempting to conjure up escape methods. That, however, does not preclude the fact that we can do it if we get an enabling environment. The best teacher in the US gets a 1m dollar prize; the best teacher in Nigeria does not get anything close of one tenth of that. Doesn't that say something?

Let's come to an agreement. Can we be able to achieve what the Europeans have achieved if we put our minds to it. I believe we can. Have we shown that we are as intelligent as they are as things stand. No we haven't.

KingEbukaNaija:
@ dalaman

This should end the argument ... Thank God !

Here is a pdf document containing names of black inventors from 1845-1980 : http://wbcp1580.com/blkinvlist.pdf

I understand that the black people never got legal right to their inventions while some lost the right to their inventions to their white slave masters .


You can also peruse this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_inventors_and_scientists

My brother, I am not saying that there aren't black inventors. What I am saying is that we haven't displayed their level of ingenuity and creativity.

sauerr:
It's rather pathetic to find such a widely-traveled person make this argument. Do you immediately tie "intelligence" to the "level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works"? If that's the case, can you mention which country you refer to specifically, because "the white man" is a rather broad generalization. And following your argument, I would suppose all "white men" themselves are not all equal in intelligence. So, which country is it?

Meanwhile, take a look at this pisa ranking for 2012. How is it that the United States, which lies way below the average on scoring, seems to be doing significantly better than China in terms of demonstrating the "level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works"?

Yes, I've tied intelligence to those things I've outlined and the sub saharan African is yet to show that he had the ability the way others have, period.

You can't solve any of your problems yet 6ou are busy insisting that you are equally as intelligent as those that have solved most of their problems as a people.

How have we the sub saharan Africans shown that we are equally as intelligent as the Europeans. Give me tangible examples please based on our ability to organize our selves like them and solve our problems, our creativity and ingenuity, our good leadership abilities, our ability to set trend for other to follow, our ability to dominate others and make them do as we want. I am not a self hating person. I just state things as they are. They have shown and displayed intelligence that we haven't been able to display period. Right now the president of Nigeria the most populous black nation in sub saharan Africa is in an undisclosed location in UK enjoying what they've built. Many people in Nigeria don't see anything wrong with it because they keep perpetuating the system.

KingEbukaNaija:
Foreign manufacturing companies don't have whites only working for them . Black people also work in these companies that manufacture and invent new technology . Its a collective effort of the human race not the white race .

Just recently a black woman in Alabama was granted 1.1 million dollars to further her research on cancer treatment using lasers and nano particles .Didn't Facebook buy an app or so developed by a black man - a Nigerian for that matter - for 3.5 billion dollars ?

Black people are doing stuff in every area of life , but you don't seem to care to know about these things because you are blinded by your white supremacy nonsense

I know these things better than you because I've lived in Europe and America for the past 12 years.I've worked in one of the biggest technology company in Germany. I only fully came back to Nigeria in 2015. I've been to NASA, ESA and CERN. There are black people working and doing well in all these places I've been to. But I still insist that the black race is yet to show the level of intelligence that the white man has shown. We've not shown the level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works like them period.

I've lived with them for the past 12 years. You haven't. I've also been around some African countries. I've been to Ghana, Kenya, Cameroun, Benin republic, Togo, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Uganda and Malawi. It is the same nonsense that is going on in all these African countries that I've visited.

You need to convince me with tangible things not empty words.

sauerr:
Good point. But does that mean that we are less intelligent? The above doesn't really answer the question.

If we are equally intelligent then why aren't we creating susperb systems like them? Why aren't we able to organize ourselves and create functional societies like theirs. Why aren't we able to solve our problems like them? Why aren't we making groud breaking discoveries and inventing things like them? Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

KingEbukaNaija:
These black women worked at NASA to ensure that Americans got to space and back after the Russians did it . One of them taught white people how to use the IBM macro computers to make calculations through her knowledge of FORTRAN ( a programming language) when the machine was brought into NASA and the white people couldn't use it .

Watch the movie 'Hidden Figures' , that's how I got to know about those black women and their remarkable achievements at NASA . NASA also made some changes - their segregation rules majorly - to make them more comfortable so they could work efficiently at NASA . Without them , the Americans couldn't go into space .

Who invented the IBM computer? Of course there are blacks that have achieved more than these ladies in the field of science and technology. But to compare the achievements of whites to blacks in the field of science and technology is not not know what you are saying. They own science and technology as we know it. They invented or discovered most of the modern scientific process and they are the ones sustaining it.

Because most of the theories and models of the modern scientific process do not have any black African man or woman's name attached to it.

Of course we are intelligent in our ways, but the reality is that these people have displayed superior intelligence by their creativity and ingenuity , ability to organize themselves and solve their problems, leadership proweres, trend setting, dominace, military might and on and on in ways we can not and we have not even demonstrated that we can period.

KingEbukaNaija:
This should put you to shame . Google : Katherine Johnson , Dorothy Vaughan and Mary Jackson . And tell me what you learnt about them .

Stop dropping names. Just explain to me how we have not been able to use our intelligence to solve any of our problems if we are truly as intelligent as others or as we claim to be. Man pass man, that's why they were able to conquer us, enslave us and make us do what ever it is they want us to do.

sunnysunny69:
this is a hateful interview, shame on her.

It is not. Most Nigerians are scammers.

KingEbukasBlog:
There are strong historical evidences for the resurrection of Christ . I'm yet to study them though .

What do you mean by strong historical evidence? Are they so strong that anybody that sees them will come to the same conclusion?

How do you jump from the creator of this vast universe that we live in to the stories written about Jesus, a Jewish man that lived over 2000 years ago? Please where is the evidence that Jesus created the universe since you believe that he is God.

KingEbukasBlog:
From a Christian perspective : A creator and personal God are not mutually exclusive . If God is a personal God then it logically follows that He is the creator

How do we know this claims to be true? How do we know that the creator of the universe wants to save humans from anything? Any objective way of knowing this claim?

hopefulLandlord:
where in the OP did the author say he believes your imaginary enemy exists

Christians deliberately pull this straw man always because they just need something to beat when debating atheist.

Atheist do not believe in any imaginary God and devil.

KingEbukasBlog:
Of course , why not . He sees no difference between himself and a dog so why not behave like an animal atheism says he is .

Smh .

He will end up subscribing to nihilism and committing suicide in prison .

What is the difference between Jeffrey Dahmer and Ezekiel in the bbile that slaughtered all the prophets of Baal after the contest? They were all murderers weren't they?

KingEbukasBlog:
The creator of the universe . A personal savior and lord

Let's leave the creator part since it is something that we can not know. Can we objectively know about this personal saviour and Lord part. How do we go about it?

malvisguy212:
you went for a child dedication last year, and you learn In the sermon that Christians don't believe in hell anymore ? okay.

I was specific about the christians. I said Christians in the West not you sadistic christians in Africa. Most christians in Europe and America don't believe in hell. They don't preach it . Even those that do, say it is separation btw man and God. The few that preach about hell as a firery place of eternal torture are looked at as foolish people. Example the Westborough baptist church. The preach exactly what people in Nigeria preach but they are considered to be a hate organization because they tell gays that they will burn in hell.

malvisguy212:
when last did you go to church ?

Last year. Went for a child dedication.

malvisguy212:
this is from your post:

" Go to the average church in Europe or America. They don't preach hell at all and majority of the main stream christian apologist just say that hell is a separation between God and man."

if you don't go to Church how do you know pastors in the west don't preach hell anymore. ?

I've lived in Europe and America as a christian so I know what goes on in their churches.

KingEbukasBlog:
That one thread that miraculously solves everything

https://www.nairaland.com/3500235/must-read-god-without-religion

This thread hawker is back again Hawking his threads.

malvisguy212:
so you do go to church on Sunday even as an atheist . that nice.

I've stopped going to church.

KingEbukasBlog:
Not the Anthropocentric fallacy again . I thought we agreed that God does not resemble humans in mind or in form . Why should God operate as if he were a human , providing you with design manuals and proof of ownership of design ?

You agreed with who that God does not resemble humans in mind and form.

Do you believe that humans are created in the image of God as the bible says or have you thrown that belief away?

Do you believe in the bible at all? Read the bible, it has God behaving like a human being all over its pages. Have you now graduated to the level of apologist like William Craig who believes that almost everything inside the bible is an allegory. Adam and Eve, allegory. Noah's flood allegory, conquest of Canaan allegory, revelations allegory. The only thing he believes is historical is the resurrection of Jesus. After a while that will also be an allegory.

DeepSight:
You have not understood what I wrote. I did not say the universe would notice the existence of this solar system or its disappearance.

I said that in order to build an Earth, you require a Universe. In other words, an Earth cannot be built in nothingness. It requires an environment. This is in answer to your question about the purpose of Jupiter.

This answer is not satisfying at all. Jipiter needs an environment is all you've said. You've not stated it's purpose of existence.

So why do you dispute that man was created?

Created by whom or what? The evolutionist have clearly stated that man was created by the forces of nature gradually and incrementally over time. Some theist have claimed that man was created whole in this present state by their various Gods. I don't have a position on the creation of man. I don't know how human beings came about. I just want an objective evidence that can convince me one way or the other.

KingEbukasBlog:
Cry ? Was that even an emotional response ? I think my response was tenable . Somethings can serve different purposes - because we haven't discovered it yet does not mean it has no purpose; you can also designate purpose to anything . Example : The door was designed to close the entrance of a room. Let's say there was heavy rain and everywhere was flooded , the door can be used as a boat to paddle your way to safety .

My argument is that not everyone has the view that everything has an inherent purpose . While some believe that some things have inherent purposes and there are other things which don't .

Do you believe that the solar system was designed? If yes then what were the dud planets designed for? What about the asteroid belt?

Sinceyou claim to communicate with the creator and designer of these things you can ask him to tell you and then you tell us. It's that simple isn't it?

DeepSight:
That's nonsense. That's like asking me to prove that a someone created Laptops without referring to the Laptop at all. That's an absurdity. Why should I use God alone in proving its existence, and not use its emanations?

Secondly, I hope you have gotten the answer to your question on the purpose of the existence of Jupiter. Did you digest it?

Apple computers come with a designers manual that uses the ideas of the designers to explain the computers design and function elaborately.

Where is the universe design manual? Does the designer of the universe want people to know about the designer and it's design?

What is the purpose of the existence of Jupiter? You've not given any answer. I don't have time for any spohism. It's either you state the answer of you know it, or say that you don't know it.