₦airaland Forum

winner01:
Give sensible reasons for the claims youve made first, we can start from there.

Your God is a man made idea that is why you as a man must defend it, speak on it's behalf, spread it;s word, build it's temple, explain it to others and on and on, your God lives only in your imaginations and can not do anything on it;s own. It can only act in pages of story books and in your imaginations. Now tell me what the purpose of human existence is. Why are you running away from the question?

plappville:
To the BOLD: John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her

Jesus know none of them were without sin. Imagin the people who killed this woman. They too are sinners but because some hid in sinning does not make them more righteous than others. I think Jesus message here is very clear. Man is without sin. He came to pass this message but the Pharisees ejected him.only the few accpted him.

Noted, but the same Jesus criticized the Pharisees and called them hypocrites for abandoning what the scripture tells them to do with regards to stoning to death their kids and changing the law with their traditions.


Matthew 15 -1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules

UyiIredia:
Some pastors, not all and certainly not Oyedepo. The funny thing is many silly folks who criticize him have never heard his story, how he recieved money from Kenneth Hagin, a rich pastor. If people didnt pay tithes Bishop would still be rich. Foolish people forget pators had jobs or businesses they were doing before they were called into ministry.

The lie of the century. How much was he earning before he became a pastor, if he wasn't a pastor or a politician, he wouldn't have owned a private Jet that is for sure. He is a pastor that sells snake oil that much is a fact.

KingEbukasBlog:
@ Dalaman ... MFM last time - around August or so - rewarded 180 First Class University graduates with N91 million, 500 k each . I think for three years running ,the church has kept helping these graduates with cash (the money keeps increasing each year ) .It was 40 million in 2013 - an additional N50 million . I'm pretty sure there are other schemes that help alleviate the indigence of some of the less privileged in that church .

Pastors of questionable character are usually suspended or relieved of their pastorship after deeply interrogated and the situation thoroughly investigated

There are also really good christian organisations that run scholarship schemes and all - loaning students money to help pay their fees etc

What is 500k to an individual that has graduated from the university? It can not even help you start a business in Nigeria, 500k is just feeding money. These students have spent more than 500k as offering, tithes, first fruits, seed sowing and many other collecting schemes these churches operate. So people should celebrate because a church that collects billions from people uses just a fraction of it to give back to a few of them. The church has failed the poor in Nigeria and that remains a fact.

Many churches run some charity organizations purely on face value, they give scholarships to very few people, claim to pay hospital bills to very few people, they just do everything on face value. Why are you guys talking as if it is not the same Nigeria that we are all living in or as if it's not the same churches we all attend or see around us. The church has failed the poor in Nigeria.

Double post.

tartar9:
it is absolutely just,I don't know what laws she might have broken but she definitely broke one hence her punishment.an armedrobber who goes out to rob and gets shot in the process will still be judged by the court.

Will you allow your mum, or daugter to be flogged after being raped? Will the King of Saudi Arabia alow that to happen to any of his daughters? What is wrong with you crazy people? Are you all mad . What is wrong with you guys

parisbookaddict:
True..I cant argue with that...mohammed was partly inspired by stories in the torah/OT scripture, but let us not forget Jesus put an end to the practice 600 years before mohammad came along..and during mohammeds time the jews had stopped stoning..

Jesus did not put an end to stoning, in fact he castigated and criticized the people for refusing to obey the law which states that they are to stone to death their disobedient children, the Jews stopped stoning their kids to death as a defiance to the law of their God. They had stopped stoning their disobedient kids during the time of Jesus. Now their morality has surpassed that of their God, the OT remains their religious book but they do not carry out any of it's injunctions because they see it as barbaric. Go to Israel and talk about an eye for and eye and see how you'll be arrested. Hard line literalist Jews are viewed as crazy people there in Israel. Muslims need to reform Islam or else they won't be able to survive in the future. Many muslims are leaving Islam but the apostasy laws that exist in majority of the muslim countries is what is stopping ex muslims from coming out. Studies have shown that there are about the same amount of atheist in Saudi Arabia as there are in the United States of America percentage wise and radical Islamic terrorism and the Ultra conservative clerics and their disposition to violence against people that do not share their beliefs or opinions were listed among what is making them leave Islam. Atheism is really on the rise in the Arab world but because you will be killed if you talk about it, most of them are hush about it. In Saudi Arabia atheism has been ranked as terrorism and is punished with death, but it is rising. In places like Iran the percentage of atheist is actually quite high, but because people stand to lose their lives when they openly display their unbelief they all keep quite and pretend.

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/12/atheism_explodes_in_saudi_arabia_where_just_talking_about_atheism_is_illegal_partner/

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/24/atheism-on-the-rise-in-the-arab-world/

KingEbukasBlog:
Paul is a historical figure ... you are really uneducated

Historical figures don't tell lies using your logic? So what if he was a historical figure? He wrote down lies, myths and fiction just like many that came before and after him.

johnydon22:
[b]

Someone who hates Gods is a monotheist not an atheist seems you are confused about the two.

Misotheism is a form of a theism but that person shares a kind of hatred for such concepts even though he/she thinks it exists.

atheists don't think Gods exists or hate them, when an atheist use the tenets of religious beliefs to refute religious ideas or its god concept it is not the same as hating the god

that you mostly confuse the two is of your own making.

Till date i do not need gloat over dozens of people i have helped get through challenges in their life and i for one do not mention anything about unbelief to them. when you want to help someone do so, it is not ok to bank on the misfortunes of others to instigate religious supremacy or turn the person's mind against their belief

Skepticism is a position that stems from pure curious rational honest in coincide with what is.

what ever you think makes people turn atheistic simply really is your business they do not owe you any explanation on that.

i have had the privilege of getting to interact with many people here on nairaland who Pm me with questions and i am confident to say that "most have shown to take on a position of unbelief in God concepts due to rational honesty and stark curious skepticism many don't even lean on unbelief but yet maintain a healthy nature of intellectual honesty" [/b]

Stop wasting your time explaining things to some one who believes that those who challenged his beliefs and do not share his delusions are sad and in need of love. He feels people that do not believe like him are God haters . How can you hate something that does not exist?

winner01:
You repeat the same crap everyday. Can u use your brain for once in your life.

You claim to know the reason for human existence here on earth, I have asked you and kingebukasblog but you have refused to state it.

These savages prefer to live in the 7th century and follow the dictates of a warlord.

winner01:
Funny thing be say u neva do reach paul. Paul nor fit stand christians sotey hn dey kill dem or at least supervise their killing.
you can do better than being stup1d na.

According to stories abi? Where you there when Paul was killing christians or did you read the story somewhere? Imagine someone basing his existence on mythical and fictitious stories that ancient people kept spreading around.

winner01:
The problem with you. You exist and dont even know why. Go and cry off your pain, you are clearly frustrated.

Can you tell us the reason for human existence? Is it universally accepted? why or why not?

johnydon22:
There are many things that can impoverish a nation ..

-Politics
-Religion
-Bad economic policies.


There are many factors actually and these most times banks on the gullibility of the masses.

A perfect case study of how Religion can do this is the northern part of Nigeria, we all know the devastating toll religion has taken on them in every aspect of their lives.

Or here in the south where Poor masses who don't have take the little they have to the pastor as tithe to God. Because the pastor said that bible said that God said you should tithe.

There are countless way i can list out

In Nigeria today the biggest gainers from bad governance and the very disorganized system we have are the politicians and the religious leaders. The politicians because they use the chaotic system to gain power, dominance and wealth and the religious leaders(pastors especially) use it to also gain power dominance and wealth just like the politicians.

KingEbukasBlog:
No dear ... your corrupt , selfish , vision-less and power-thirsty leaders are LARGELY responsible for the current situation in this country

Are the religious leaders in Nigeria any better than the politicians? They are all the same. They use people's tithes and offerings and open universities, they set the price so high that the average church member can never afford. An average church member can never see with the pastor one on one and discuss anything. Many of their members are wallowing in poverty but they can not even help them. When was the last time you heard any body going to the church to seek for financial assistance over any problem. Yet the church is filled with people that have endless financial problems. You guys are all deluded.

KingEbukasBlog:
No , 4 pages of you pretending to be a christian then the rest is history

I joined Nairaland in 2008 as a devout christian, I used to debate atheist here just like you. You can go through my posts. I became an atheist over the years and it shows on my timeline here. Believe what you want but it doesn't take the fact away that you are living someone elses fantasies by believing in their mythology, fiction and fantasies.

KingEbukasBlog:
If pastors were poor , the atheists will mock Christians - ridiculing this supposed messengers of a God who owns the universe and cannot even provide for his servants . Now they are wealthy , they say these pastors use religion as a tool to steal from the poor .

Una get wahala

Are the pastors not using religion to enrich themselves? isn't it true?

KingEbukasBlog:
just 4 pages of deception .

You must have dug and seen for yourself. You are completely deluded when it comes to the issue of religion.

hahn:
I think you should "claim it", to borrow Christian parlance. He's wishing 72 virgins for you in the afterlife. That's love right there man

Mad love brother. . I actually do not take him seriously because I have pages of arguments and criticism aimed at Islam.

KingEbukasBlog:
Stop using atheism as a tool ridicule christianity . You are devoted muslim . Dalaman you are a devoted muslim

I've debated and criticized Islam many times. A simple dig into my old post will show that to be true. You are just ridiculous.

KingEbukasBlog:
This idi.ot called Dalaman is a muslim whose mission is to ridicule Christianity ... he uses atheism as a tool . Winner01 , hahn , beware ... he's a fake .

How do I know ? The atheists who were formerly muslims understand the religion and fault it . On social networks they are only interested in ridiculing Islam . But this one is only interested in ridiculing Christianity - a religion he supposedly knows little of . Have you seen Dalaman arguing with a fellow muslim ?

You are deluded in everything concerning religion.

KingEbukasBlog:
You know bro its very easy to expose Dalaman's ignorance and odious sense of reasoning

Everything you wrote about the a Hindu religion is false.

KingEbukasBlog:
If man created God , who created man ? If man's imaginations and thoughts brought God into existence , who brought man into existence ?

I don't think you actually reason before you post

There are different beliefs as to what created man. While some believe it is their various Gods , some others believe it is through natural and incremental processes like evolution. The bottom is there are different beliefs. The actual fact is what no body knows.

KingEbukasBlog:
You talk like an asswipe . So if Israel's history is imagined can you provide the valid and true history of the Israelites ?

Who mentioned Isreal's history? We were talking about the creation story they wrote down which they imagined. But a loy of their history as written inside tge bible is false. For example they were never enslaved in Egypt and the exodus is a non historical myth.

KingEbukasBlog:
Jesus is the word of God . Stop making claims . You know very little of what I know - that's a fact

And which word did Jesus personally write any where?

UyiIredia:
He wrote about religion causing poverty and I'm re minding him people make money from it. Abi make Bishop Oyedepo buy anoda jet b4 u change style ba? o

I get. So long as the country remains as disorganized and distabilized as it is religious leaders will continue to cash out selling and peddling snake oil.

UyiIredia:
While waiting some are making money, you berra make ur own. So when they leave you won't be left high and dry.

What has this got to do with what he wrote down?

Richirich713:
The hebrew text is only confusing cuz it's written from the perspective of the Ancient Hebrew Culture.
Ancient Hebrew is concrete thought while most if not all scholars today think in abstract thought.
Scholars today want to know everything, they have to no "who", "what", "where", "why" etc since they thinking in the western Greek culture.
The Ancient hebrews didn't care about those things, a example of this is Cain wife, they never mention where he got his wife cuz 2 a Ancient hebrew it was not important.
If we read the Bible from a Greek perspective we will get confused, cuz hebrews don't mention everything nor do they write in chronological order, nor do they describe stuff like us, nor did they think like us.

If the ancient Hebrews do not write like us or describe things like we do today then why should we accept anything they wrote for themselves as the ultimate truth talk more as the truth about the origin of the universe? They wrote down their thoughts based on what they imagined and we are supposed to treat it as that.

vooks:
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Garbage. So Nigeria atheists live in cloud 9?

Is that all what you could deduce from the write up?

Richirich713:
He has to explain it cuz u reading a translation nd basing ur interpretation on a interpretation.

Hebrew Scholars are not even sure how the 1st verse (Genesis 1:1) of the bible should be translated to English.

The truth is a some part of the bible's message has been lost in translation. Some part of the OT is actually written in Proto-Hebrew which is a Canaanite Language and the translators do get confused about it because the language is no longer in existence.

Genesis one according to Rabbinical tradition is actually a priestly commentary on Genesis chapter 2 which was written years earlier, people like KingEbukasBlog do not know this but will come and be telling you that the bible is the word of God because they were indoctrinated and made to accept it without knowing anything about it's history or how it was written and complied. Most English bibles translation of Genesis one uses the King James version tradition of translation which uses the "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth", some scholars claim it is not supposed to be so, it is supposed to be "In the beginning when God started creating the earth", others have different views, my point is, just like anything else, this is a man made system that is why there is so much confusion and divergent views and opinions about it .

UyiIredia:
Ideas rule the world. And Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge.

Religious ideas and the Gods they promote are mainly mythical and fictional and as such he dismissed the idea of a personal God.

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"

Einstein also said:

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems.

UyiIredia:
Crap. Africa's richest man, Dangote, is religious. Alakija, Africa's richest woman is religious. Bill Gates no longer identifies as an atheist but a Roman Catholic. Till tomorrow una go dey beef Oyedepo and Oyakhilome because of their money. Who u be?

Did you even read the write up? Let me just give you some excerpts

In a country where good roads, electricity and healthcare facilities are taken to God in prayer, the link between religion and poverty is worth analysing more closely. Do Nigerians turn to religion due to despair, or do people fall into poverty as a result of their religious beliefs? This question is pertinent because seemingly intelligent, educated people in Nigeria believe they have no control over their lives because their living and dying has been preordained and it is all in God’s hands. For these people, life choices do not count. The only method of making major life decisions – where to school, where to live, who to marry is “to tell my pastor and pray over it.”

"Religion in Nigeria has become a powerful open trap that exerts tremendous social pressure that is often impossible for the uneducated mind to avoid. In my interactions, I have seen educated people, who were normal in their homes, normal at work and everywhere outside of the Church, become complete fools once inside the Church. One cannot but wonder if the central problem comes from people turning their minds off once they walk through the door of a Church or Mosque. Their minds seem conditioned to do so since they were young. They swallow anything that is said as the truth. It is no longer what the Bible says but what my Pastor says and for the Muslims, every reference is according to this Sheikh and that Imam. To a first time visitor to Nigeria, it is easy to conclude that religion makes both educated and uneducated Nigerians mindless."

"The trick the Pastors and the rulers who patronise and encourage them know is that the greater your education (good education), the more you understand the world, and the more options you have for moving and succeeding in it. Education is the power you can see, it is the power you create that allows you to need less of miracles and magic. That is why they have ruined education collaboratively. That is why almost all the Churches and some Islamic sects and organisations have invested in education. They make it expensive, such that majority of their congregants can’t afford it and where they can, they shape the kind of education they give. They do this to ensure successful manipulation and enslavement of our people. That is why “touch not my anointed” is one of the most quoted verse in the Bible, in today’s Nigeria. It is the reason why the poor congregant will donate his entire January salary in his bid to sow by giving his first fruits (insane). That is why a person earning minimum wage is happy his Pastor has bought a second Gulf-stream jet while he barely could afford his transportation to Church."

In a 2010 Gallup poll of 100 countries, the data showed a strong, positive correlation between strict adherence to religion and privation. In like manner, an independent study by Dr. Tom Rees, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, showed that in places without strong social safety nets to provide people with opportunities for upward mobility, they are more likely to be religious. When suffering becomes a constant in the lives of people, they are easily consoled by visions of the apocalypse, judgement, punishment and hell. Poverty, deprivation and suffering often leads to consolatory beliefs that the world will soon end, with God rewarding the faithful with everlasting joy where there is no want, no toil, no tribulation. The doom and gloom predictions of the rapture and the trials and tribulations that humanity will face, as found in Christian fundamentalism, is thus made popular. The scenario helps perpetuate suffering by attributing a higher purpose to human pain and suffering as part of God’s grand plan for absolution among His chosen.

Without a shred of doubt, Nigerian churches have failed the poor. On the other hand, Islam is busy promoting intergenerational poverty through fatalism and fundamentalism. Religious centres have become profit oriented mega-companies. All hope is not lost. If the right investments in education are embarked upon, the situation will change. Nigeria will be a better place and the social benefits of religion will naturally take centre stage and be targeted further down the socioeconomic ladder, and delivered through education, community and charitable giving. For Nigeria’s renaissance, we must think less of hell and the annihilation of the human race. We must commit to making this life the best that it can possibly be, since it is the only life that any of us has.

People like Oyaks, Oyedepo, TB Joshua etc are all benefiting from a crumbled and disorganized system where majority of the people suffering and are in despair, they take advantage of the failed system by spewing lies, promising false hope, staging miracles and wonders, and cajoling the people to give them money all in the name of giving unto God , they tell the people that if the people give God money he will change their lot and make their lives better, but the reality is that they are the ones that continue to grow rich why majority of the people that give them the money remain the same or their conditions get worse.