₦airaland Forum

IMO most people believe that God is white. I don't think that people Imagine the picture of a black person when they think about God.

What a question.

I watched Feral kids about a month ago and it was really an eye opener. Every thing that we know we are taught about it. A careful study about the ancient Greeks will show that we are not born with any moral conscience what so ever. The ancient Greeks did so many things that we will consider VERY bad and evil in today's world but then they taught that they were doing the right thing. Just as mazaje has said parent will not burn off their twin babies and feel good about it in some parts of Nigeria as was done before the missionaries came if we were born with a morale conscience.

davidylan:
Why did the gazelle run at the sight of the lion? how did it know that stay = bad and run = good? Watch discovery channel, even newly born gazelles run at the sight of wild animals . . . if they were born with blank slates i'd expect the gazelle to go give the lion a hug instead.

The above statement is very false newly born gazelles do not run away from the sight of wild animals. It completely is not true.

~Lady~:
Do you mind sharing your reason for leaving your faith? Were you already borderline on leaving the faith and then nairaland sealed the deal for you?

I looked very well and I discovered that most of the things I used to believe in were not really in the bible. The discussions here on nairaland were really help full.

Nairaland was really instrumental for me in leaving my catholic faith, I use to hear arguments for and against Catholicism but my visits to the religion section really helped me to change, I was actually introduced to nairaland by a former Christians who told me that nairaland was instrumental in his conversion to atheism. The point is that I have learned a lot here from both Christians and atheist alike. Some of the arguments are really insightful and help full.

davidylan:
Dalaman again i repeat . . . before you hold other people to the fire . . . this was your own post (i didnt write it) . . .

[size=15pt]I am not allowing any unbeliever to use my comment to adduce any erroeous points, the book of Mark clearly shows that Christ was executed by the 3rd hour on passover day. What more is unclear? Mark 14 from verse 1 through to 72 clearly states what happaned on the 14th day of nissan, on the day that the passover was killed. It cleary explains how Christ and his disciples eat the last supper with his disciples in the NIGHT of the 14th day of nissan, It explain how he was arrested on the NIGHT of the 14th day of nissan, how Peter denied him and when the cocked crowed in the morning. Chapter 15 clearly explains how the scribes took Christ in the morning of the passover day and presented him to Pilate. If this is an error Please go ahead and show me from the Bible.[/size]

I did just that . . . why have you FAILED to respond? What has 6am or 12 noon got to do with that?

bla bla bla bla bla what a shame ,liar and a fraud you are.

davidylan:
But you hypocrite and monumental fraud returned here . . . cleverly sidestepped the CLEAR fact that you goofed (and i spent a great deal of time responding to every single one of your lies!) on the day Christ died . . . you have pretended NOT to see any of that, but rather rushed off to another thread to go ferret for errors.

You monumental fraud and liar i am only using your words against you to show you that you don't know what you are saying. Here is what you wrote
on reply #35

Mark 15 records the death of Christ . . . it took place at night, the same day as Mark 14:12 . . . clearly on the 14th day of Nisan . . . since the 15th was passover, the talmud AND the bible would be correct in making the claim that Christ was crucified ON THE EVE OF PASSOVER. 14th is eve of 15th.

You lied that Mark records the death of Christ and it took place in the night, nothing like that is recored in the book of Mark. when Toneyb showed how wrong you were you agree that you made a mistake. Why most you say things that you don't know? and you claim to be knowledgeable  . next time before you post make sure that you KNOW what you are talking about, your post here shows that you do not know what you are talking about, you are more interested in winning an argument you monumental fraud. Why will you say that Mark said what he did not say? why should any body believe you when you do not know what you are talking about?

Sadly, you fail to respond to any of the points i raise with concrete proof . . . you simply wish to criticize without being forced to state your own case and prove why we shld take it as gospel truth. I am not 100% correct, i will be ready to accept mistakes and i have done that on several occassions when toneyb has been right.

You have no concerete proof all you did was LIE. Why should any body take your own lies as the truth when you conceded that you lied by saying it was a mistake. Your statements were forceful it was only after they were shown to be lies that you admitted that you made a mistake, why should any body believe you when you cover your lies with words like you are not 100 percent correct? Why did you initially agree with Toneyb with regards to the time if you really know what you are talking about? you were for it before you were against it? . You have to know what you are really talking about before you post. stop posting and changing your mind all over the place. If you don't really know what you are talking about then keep quite and stop claiming to be more knowledgeable than every body else. You have clearly demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about.

Let me clarify quite clearly . . . i have spent the better part of the last 2 weeks reading up and trying to correlate Mark and John's time and dates . . . i wont get everything right . . . but unfortunately i dont see any attempt from you or others to set the facts straight . . . all i see are blow-hards and hypocrites simply sitting around waiting to pick on "inconsistencies".

Make sure you get things right before you post stop posting you false conjectures and assumptions. You said things that Mark did not say, so why should any one believe you? You got the facts wrong and you want anybody to believe you? when I see inconsistencies in your arguments i have to point them out.

In case anyone is still in doubt as to my stand - let me make it crystal clear - according to Mark and John . . . Christ was brought to His sentencing around 6am. Initially i agreed with toneyb that the 6th hour of john would be around 12pm but having analysed some of the occurences . . . i did point out on the other thread why i now supported a 6am time as against 12pm (Mark, matthew support 6-9am) . . . you DELIBERATELY, DISHONESTLY missed all those portions where i clearly explained my reasons for changing the time but clung instead to what you thought was another opportunity for you to avoid making any claim but instead point out percieved errors.

This is a lie and you know it, how did you come to the conclusion that Mark and John said that Christ was sentenced around 6am, the explanation you gave MAKES no sense, it is a lie. You copied the unverified work of another writer in the link that mazaje provided on the other thread, why should we believe that? You didn't analyze any occurrences you plagiarized the work of another person without even making sure that his argument agree with your previous statements, what a shame, next time before you plagiarized some body's work make sure that it agrees with your previous statements. you did not explain anything you only copied and pasted some body's work and ideas that did not agree with you previous statements. Why should any body believe you when you are always changing your positions? LIAR

Christ was crucified by 3pm. On that i am absolutely sure. If you doubt any of the times i put up - WHY DONT YOU HYPOCRITES TELL US YOUR OWN POINT OF VIEW AND EXPLAIN TO US? ARE YOU ONLY HERE TO FIND FAULT? WHEN I SPENT AN ENTIRE WEEK CLARIFYING MY POINTS AND TAKING YOUR ON YOUR OWN IGNORANCE WHERE WERE YOU AND TONEYB HIDING? WHY HAS TONEYB LARGELY REFUSED TO RETURN HERE TO TAKE UP THE POINTS I BROUGHT UP?
WHY DID YOU ALSO RETURN BUT PRETEND NOT TO SEE THE LINE BY LINE CORRECTIONS I MADE TO YOUR NOISE MAKING?

That is a another lie, Mark says that Christ was[b] crucified[/b] by the 3rd hour (9am). How then did you come to the ridiculous conclusion that he was crucified by 3pm? . You are a disgrace. make sure you know what you are talking about before you post. You did not make any correction all you did was give your opinions which were mostly untrue.

Thou liar . . . i NEVER said Christ was crucified by 6am. I said . . . and i repeat for the 100th time, Christ came to his sentencing early in the morning . . . about 6am, must have been crucified sometime around 9am but possibly before 12 noon . . . died after 3pm. You would have to account for the 3 hours of pitch darkness between His hanging on the cross and His eventual death as reported by matthew, Mark and John.

You just said that you are absolutely sure that Christ was crucified by 3pm now you are saying that he must have been crucified sometime around 9am possibly before noon. What are you saying? why are you just dancing with the wind you charlatan?

Sorry loud barrel . . . pages 3 contain line by line, detailed rebuttals of the nonsense you put up here . . . go back and defend them rather than running to ferret for obscure lines to make noise about.

You didn't rebut any of the things i said all you did was  LIE.

still waiting for Toneyb and dalaman . . .

I am now here I just got back from Niaja yesterday.

I have said so many times that you are running all over the place. It is very clear to me that you do not know what you are talking about david, you just run with the wind as long as you feel you can shout and make baseless assertions. Let me show you all the stuffs you have written that shows that you really are a charlatan.

This is what you wrote in #88 when replying to Toneyb on this thread.

[b]You are absolutely correct, the 6th hour was around 12 noon [/b]and the 9th hour is actually 3pm. But my claim is still 100% correct, Christ was already crucified by 3PM because that was the time HE DIED!

You told Toneyb that he was absolutely correct that the 6th hour that John talked in his gospel about was 12 noon, you wrote it yourself you still went ahead and said that Christ was crucified by 3pm. But in another topic (what really happened to Jesus by Mazaje)  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-260977.0.html.

This is what you wrote in one of your replies to Toneyb on that thread reply #26

No contradiction there at all if you bothered to study further instead of running around like a headless chicken . . . the clear difference is that while Mark wrote in Jewish time, John wrote in Roman time. Now according to the Jews . . . the 3rd hour was a 3 hr time frame between 6-9am (our time) . . . however Romans counted time like we did so when John says "about the 6th hour) he literarily means . . . the 6th hour from 12 am . . . i.e about 6 am. [/b]About the exact same time period Mark also says Christ was crucified.

So which one is it david? in your ealier reply to Toneyb on this thread you said that you absolutely agree with Toneyb that the 6th hour was 12 noon and that Christ was crucified by 3pm,  but on the other thread(what really happened to Jesus by mazaje) you said that the 6th hour is about 6am. so which one is it david? why are you just dancing with the wind? is the 6th hour 12 noon as you said or 6am as you have also said?

In one of your replies #88 on this thread this is what you said.

[b]He was crucified about the 6th hour and died at the 9th hour - 3PM. Please do some homework before hyperventilating.

This clearly shows that you agree that the 6th hour is 12 noon. You said that Jesus died at the 9th hour 3pm, but on the other thread you said he was crucified by 6am, again which is it david? who did I hear say that the empty shell makes that loudest noise

congoshine:
But they are my friend. I' rather you raise your objections than address the brother. , .

I'd probably use the word-'mistaken. & not deceitful. Like you said the reason Toneyb is reviewing this verse is to cast aspersions on YOUR beliefs,while you are analysing for edification-see any difference?? Like I said,I have no problems with your objectios,just that it gives ungodly people things to say. . . . . . .

The 3rd hour of the day is 9am . As can be deduced from the day of pentecost in Acts 2:15.

I don't care about Toneyb, Huxley, Mazaje and all the other atheist here on nairaland. The can deride and ridicule the bible all they want. I believe that the bible is the truth and it should not be twisted just to make a point to people that are only interested in mocking it.

congoshine:
I'm glad to know you're not an atheist,so pls tell me why are you allowing the unbelievers use your comments to adduce their erroneous points of view?

I am not allowing any unbeliever to use my comment to adduce any erroeous points, the book of Mark clearly shows that Christ was executed by the 3rd hour on passover day. What more is unclear? Mark 14 from verse 1 through to 72 clearly states what happaned on the 14th day of nissan, on the day that the passover was killed. It cleary explains how Christ and his disciples eat the last supper with his disciples in the NIGHT of the 14th day of nissan, It explain how he was arrested on the NIGHT of the 14th day of nissan, how Peter denied him and when the cocked crowed in the morning. Chapter 15 clearly explains how the scribes took Christ in the morning of the passover day and presented him to Pilate. If this is an error Please go ahead and show me from the Bible.

If u have another interpretation to the scripture,just state it,don't make it sound as if David's being deceitful or distract from his message to the unbelievers.

David has clearly been decietful and I will say it any where. He said that Christ was crucified in the Night of the 14th day of nissan but there is Nothing like that in the book of Mark. He then turns around and says that Christ was excuted some where around 3 pm just before sun down on the 14th day of nissan when Toneyb showed him how wrong he was. That again is pure dishonesty because the bible clearly explains how Christ ate the last supper with his disciples in the evening of the 14th day of nissan

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

This is the 14th day of nissan. Christ ate the last supper with his disciples that evening according to Verse 14 and 18. So how then did david come to the conclusion that Christ was executed some where around 3pm just before sun down on the 14th day of nissan when the Bible clearly says that Christ ate the last supper with his disciples on the evening of the 14th day of nissan. Do you see the dishonesty now?

He's spending time responding to your mails,when he already has to contend with them stone hearts already !!

Sure, I know that but we don't have to say things that are clearly not in the bible just because we want to prove a point. Atheist do not believe in the Bible  all they are interested in is mocking it,so we have to let the Bible speak for it self without trying to tell them what it doesn't say because it will only make them laugh at or mock the Bible the more. Please I will like you to tell me from your own understanding of Mark chapter 14 from 1 through to 72 and chapter 15 from 1 through to 25 , when the Bible says Christ was executed. I am waiting. I do not support the atheist from form  it, but let the bible speak for itself.

congoshine:
Obviously,Dalman,mazaje & toneyb DON'T READ ^{or possiby can't} !!

You ust browse through david's post & make comments .

Stop visiting your dumb atheist sites & pasting rubbish here okay?

Can you show me how  the bible disagrees with what I am saying? What have you got so say about Mark 15: 6? Did you read Mark 14 from verse 1 through to 72? What part of the day did all those events(last supper and Judas betrayal of Christ) take place? When was Jesus arrested? and when was he presented to Pilate?

I AM NOT AN ATHEIST

mazaje:
@
dalaman well done. . . . more vaseline to your elbows abeg. . . . . .

I just don't like it when some of we Christians see white and keep on insisting that it is black. On the other thread another guy was insisting that the bible as we know it today was complied by the apostles of Christ not the RCC.

The NLT  you posted says it best.

Mark 15: 6[b]Now it was the governor's custom to release one prisoner each year at Passover feast[/b]--anyone the people requested.

Let us see how he will twist this one. It is in black and white, the governor had made it a custom to release one prisoner each year on the day of the passover feast and on that particular passover feast day the people shouted that he should release Barabas and not Jesus Christ. What is hard there for any body that has eyes and can read to see? This entire debate is becoming annoying I am out of here.

davidylan:
What a pile of poop. All conjectures, all unproven claims . . . why are YOU fighting so hard to support something you could not even prove? All your counter argument is based on the word "lest"? What a disgracefully dishonest charlatan.

Your claims are unproven as well. You said that Christ was crucified in the night.

Quote from davidylan: Mark 15 records the death of Christ . . . it took place at night, the same day as Mark 14:12 . . . clearly on the 14th day of Nisan . . . since the 15th was passover, the talmud AND the bible would be correct in making the claim that Christ was crucified ON THE EVE OF PASSOVER. 14th is eve of 15th.

Again you are fighting so hard because mark NEVER said that Christ was executed in the night you said it. and you call me a disgraceful and dishonest charlatan?

These people were STRICT RELIGIOUS JEWS . . . these were people who would stone Christ for daring to heal a man on the sabbath. These are people who would kill Christ for daring to take one stone from their temple . . . and you claim they just went ahead anyway to kill Christ on the passover feast EVEN WHEN they had earlier expressed strong reservations about an uproar shld they do so?

The Romans executed Christ not the Jews according to the bible, The Jews were under Roman leadership, so the Romans could do anything they like, the Romans never observed the sabbath because they were not Jews, They could still go ahead and execute Jesus on the passover day because they do not observe the passover, the passover was meant for the Jews alone. they expressed strong reservations thinking the people will stage an uproar, but we know how the romans treated the Jews, they could do anything they wanted to the Jews,(some of the Roman leaders were very brutal) the bible tells us that king Herod commanded all the male babies under the age of 2 to be killed all across Judea when Jesus was born, why was there no uproar? innocent babies where killed and there was no upror from the people why? Because they people know very well not to go against the Roman leadership. The Romans can execute any body any time be it on the sabbath or on the passover, They do not observe or respect the passover those days, only the Jews do.  Jesus was handed over to Pilate

Chapter 15 verse 4 then goes to say that after Jesus was brought to Pilate, Pilate asked him answer to the accusations that where leveled against him to which he kept quite. Verse 15 talked about the Feast day.

Mar 15:6 Now it was the custom at the Feast [/b]to release a prisoner whom the people requested.

Another translation puts it like this.

[b]Mar 15: 6 [b]Now at the feast he used to release unto them one prisoner, whom they asked of him.[/b]

What feast day is the writer talking about here?

Read Mark 14:2 again - this was not a debate about whether they shld kill him on that day or not . . . it was an emphatic [size=18pt]"Not on the feast day"[/size]

The "lest" there was simply their reason to back up why they strongly disapproved . . . it is NOT the crux of the entire verse.

What feast day was Mark talking about in Chapter 15 verse 6?

sometimes you people shoot yourselves in the foot.

You have shot yourself so many times on the foot here. I am a bible believing Christian, your promptly labeled me an atheist because I showed that you were wrong?

davidylan:
Mark 14:2 is clear for you to read - [size=15pt]But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.[/size]

Again your are fighting so hard, the verse talks bout how the chief priests and the scribes thought it will be wrong for them to execute Christ on the day of the feast. Mark the word lest, what does that mean to you? It shows that they thought it will be unwise to execute him on the feast day in case there might be an uproar. They weren't 100 percent sure that there would be an uproar they just thought it will be safer to avoid executing him on the day of the feast so as to avoid an uproar in case it happens. Ok it never did and their fears did not see the light of the day because the people did not get mad at them for crucifying Christ on the passover day.

@ davidylan

Why are you fighting so hard? I am a Christian myself but it is very clear that you are being dishonest with your claims. If you read the book of mark chapter 14 from verse 1 through to 72, it explains in details how the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take Christ. The chapter explains how Christ ate the last supper with his disciples on the 14th day of Nissan which is the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover. You acknowledged that in one of your replies to Toneyb, chapter 14 then goes ahead an explains how Christ took his disciples in the NIGHT of the 14th day of Nissan. chapter 14 explains how Christ told his disciples that one of them will betray him, it talks about how Christ went and prayed to God his father while his disciples slept, It talks about how Jesus told Peter that he was going to betray him before dawn when the cock crows. It then came to pass and Peter did betray him when the cock crowed all these happened on the NIGHT of the 14th day of nissan. In chapter 15 it talks about how the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate in the MORNING of the 15th day of nissan which is the passover day proper and he was crucified by the 3rd hour. The bible is very clear. There is no need to be dishonest about it. You said that Jesus was killed in the Night but Toneyb showed you how he was taken away and presented to Pilate in the morning of the Next day. IT IS VERY CLEAR, no need to lie and twist it. Just accept that you were wrong and misinterpreted what was written in the bible, no need for all the insults on both sides. This is just my own 2 cents.

Ohh thank God for this topic because i am really dying inside, i have been having this problem that has been killing me silently for over 2 weeks now, I  meet a new friend who attends the London School Of Theology  and we got chatting, while chatting he told me that all the gospels were anonymously written, he went into some deep theology with regards to the apostolic traditions and how the names where chosen and ascribes to the books, he also showed me the names and writings of some early church bishops with regards to the gospels. He told me that, that fact does not negate the contents and the message that were written in the gospels because they are accurate accounts of events that happened.To make matters worse he told me that the gospels were written long after the death of Jesus, he said Mark was the first gospel that was written and it was written about 30-40 years after the death of Jesus Christ. The truth is that i have not been comfortable with my faith after this revelation, i just can't explain it but i just feel that something has been taken away from me, there are atheist here like bindex, huxley, toneyb, duduspace that have been saying this things but the truth is that i thought they all made them up but now an aspiring pastor and a student of theology just confirmed it to me. I still believe in the in the bible and what it preaches with my mind but my head keeps asking this nagging questions. Its so bad that i have been asking some questions around a friend told me that the gospels were truly written decades of after the death of Jesus but could not say anything about the authors since he doesn't know. I asked the pastor of the church where i worship and to my surprise he knows nothing about the history of the church and how the bible was written, he just told me that the bible is the word of God and everything ends there but that is not enough since he simply does not know, i will like the christian member of the house that are extensively knowledgeable on this to PLEASE help me out. Thank you.

KAG you choose to be male today?

@ poster

Aren't you already an atheist?

osisi is a tribalist i must say.

What is happening here? This atheist have ruined this thread

Why is it that the catholic church seems very interested in TTE?

toneyb:
For those that keep insisting that the gospels are eye witness accounts,how are the writers the gospels of matthew and luke supposed to have gotten the details of their stories? who witnessed these events? was the author of matthew riding along with the magi? was he at Herod's palace listening in on his conversations? like they poster said how did they know? why are the stories written in the 2nd or 3rd person?

Why do you keep insisting that the gospels are not eye witness accounts or that the gospels were not written by the writers the bible says? you are very fond repeating this lie over and over again.

Kadima officials say that Livni has won and will become next PM.

Netanyahu tells channel 10 that he will be the next PM.

Any country that can not fix it's power problem can never fix any other problem that it has period.

davidylan:
Kadima? Oh no!

Likud might come from behind and pull it off lets wait and seee.

I can see people dancing in the kadima party headquaters seems they most likely will win.

It seems like the kadima party is narrowly in the lead judging from the exit polls.

davidylan:
Is Ishmael the father of arabs? Proof pls.

thanks

Image123:
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to[b] the Jew first[/b], and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Its a context of judgement mr.Nobody can escape the judgement/punishment for sin.Only if you allow Jesus to replace you.

I believe that you have said it all.

To toney and bindex I don't have any other thing to tell you but all I know is that Jesus is real.

toneyb:
Which other place if i may ask? Do you know that there is no record of Herod ordering the killing of babies any where else except in the bible?

Josephus who was alive during the time of Jesus wrote about some of the things that he did in the bible.

Image123:
@dalaman
Romans 11:2a God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
You could read the whole chapter 'if you have time'.
N.B I'll be worried if they were not laughing at 'us' and mind you,its not going to be forever.Jesus is coming.Maranatha

Here is what the bible says in Romans

Rom2:10 But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good--for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.

Rom 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

Why where you saying that gentiles were just called to join in?