₦airaland Forum

I got this from another forum.

Islamic extremists and others like them dream of an Islamic world where everything would be wonderful and people will be living according to the dictates of the Koran and Islamic Sharia law.

We have Iran , Afghanistan(under the Taliban) and Saudi Arabia for an example of what a totally Islamic society looks like.

How wonderful is life in Iran, Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia and other Islamic nations for that matter? Is their happiness meter higher than other places? Are these countries the best places to live on earth? Is there more justice and equality in these Islamic countries that are governed by the dictates of Sharia? Why are their citizens leaving and going to other western infidel nations in search for better opportunities and better lives? Do Muslims the world over want to live in a country like Afghanistan the way it was under the Taliban? What is the evidence that Islamic sharia law is good for humanity when Muslims are now crying for democracy and freedom and many of them are now running to the western world?

Joagbaje:
@Ofor
The bible contains Gods word. It's a book of prophecy. There was never a faulty creation story. If there is, point them out.

I think current scıentıfıc knowledge completely destroys the biblical creation story that is written in Genesis, the universe as we know it did not come about as described in the passages of Genesis and as such a lot of Christians that have true knowledge of science and astronomy regard the genesis story as an allegory, not as a factual or historical narrative.

Many prophecies of the bible had come to pass. And they are historically accurate.

I will like you to give such examples. To me this assertion is not completely accurate.

The reign of alexander the great was prophesied thousands of years before.

This is not really true because the book of Daniel that makes such prediction was written long after the events it talked about had happend. Its veryeasy to predict events after most of them have already happened.

The birth of christ, his death. Roman invasion . Even the present world government of democracy was predicted.

I will like to see the verses that allude to this assertion of yours from the bible. Mind you the gospels were written long after the events which they recorded had already happned, so again I believe its very easy to predict events after they have already taken place.

Enigma:
I wish someone would find the video in which "papa Hagin" said he was visited by two angels --- he gave two ridiculous names for the angels. I believe that the man was a pathological liar apart from being a plagiarist.

People like Copeland are the men pastors like Oyedepo are busy promoting in Nigeria as good men of God.

aletheia:
^^The Bible describes several races of giants not isolated individuals suffering from excessive growth hormone production.

Angels are not mythical creatures. They may sometimes appear as men. . .descriptions of them are in the Bible.

Do you believe that Zeus is mythical? What about Jinns(that appear in the Koran)? Whats your belief about them, are they real or mythical?

Abu-Maryam:
You are a daft! well the xristian medias did not unveil where churches are keeping guns, i give them a welldone mark for unveiling the homosexuality in churches,

What about the Muslim media? when will they unviel the guns that were kept in the churches? you have no feet to stand on, for that you are now resorting to the purile talk of homosexuality in the church. You are a waste of time.

Jenwitemi:
I am, indeed. Thank you. I hope you are,too.
I am saying that if the black people believe much more in themselves and their God-given creative powers, they would be as technologically and scientifically accomplished as any race on the face of this planet. Believing that a God or gods exist does not have to alter that. It only depends on what comes with the belief and how the belief is taken onboard.

The way blacks believe in God is totally disastrous. We think that believing in God has to include the surrendering of our self belief and our natural creative powers to "him" and then rely entirely on this God to provide everything we need because this God is supposed to be almighty father in heaven that is merciful enough to provide us with whatever we need in this life. This just absolutely catastrophic way of belief. The terrible consequences of which we are all seeing today.  [size=18pt]The black race can't do jack without the white race who, btw, are the real Gods of the black race.[/size]

I believe in a creator God, but i do not subscribe to surrendering my creative powers to any bagger in the name of religion. Something which world religions like christianity and islam are always demanding. All you have to do is pay close attention to what their priests preach from the pulpits and how they interprete their respective scriptures and you will see this quite glaringly. The worship of african traditional gods does exactly the same thing. Blacks are just existing with a very very very bad operating software. We've got the hardware, but the software is horrible and the consequences of this cannot be denied by anyone with even half a brain.

What you have said is nothing but the truth. The way we go about religion(both foreign and local) with our closemindedness is root of our problem.

Abu-Maryam:
seing is believing, no medium broadcast the massacre of muslim in Dogon nahauwa untill Aljazeera turn up the Can. is equally here, but the eye witness has unrevail the facts,  Do you think we dont COCIN at Rukuba JUnction is full of weapons, or OUR LADY FATIMA at Ali Kazaure. all these are in Jos. And gradually the fishi activities of CAN and it associate in Jos will be fully unreveil. Am surprise Julian Assange (wilkileaks guru) dont know about it.

You are a deranged fool, will you please post a link from any credible news source that supports any of the lies you are spewing here about guns found in churches? What about the other bombs that exploded in other places, the Christians must have put them there as well?

Abu-Maryam please leave this thread, how can you be so foolish and stupi.d? Do you really believe the nonsense you are writing? Muslims are known fo killing each other and others around them with bombs the world over, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, just to mention a few. No weapons were found in any church, if you have a report from any credible news source that says that weapons were found in the church, please post it so that we can read it. Until then you remain a deranged lair. Idiooot.

Its easier to accept than the universe had a cause than to say it was uncaused. Proving or providing evidnce for the cause seems to be the problem here.

cogicero:
this is of no consequence to the argument presented.   where is the bachelor's wife? how does color blue smell? what is the procedure required to weigh a tonne of fire.

It is of grate consequence, how did you come to the conclusion that it is just one creator, why not many external creators? You have to provide evidence to show that there is only one creator or your argument become as baseless and that of the athiest who claims that there is no creator/creators of the universe IMO.

I particularly enjoyed the first video. Very good line of thoughts.

bye bye super chickens

Very interesting debate going on here, Keep it coming guys.

@Davidylan

Why do you keep insulting them(Romeo4real and beaf) when non of them even addresses you with any offensive language? You come across as a spoilt 3 years old child trying to seek attention by displaying ridiculous tantrums. You call them fools because they deserve it you claimed when it is your own foolishness that is clearly on display for all to see.

Nigerian police are crazy.

This is really shocking. . Its true his earliest post on the religion section shows that he was once a Christian here on nairaland. I can't believe this.

I saw this topic on a christian forum my friend introduced me to recently but unfortunately the moderators blocked it and did not want people to respond to it for some unknown reasons and felt it will be good to see the response of other christians here.

"Was Eve justified in eating of the tree of knowledge?

I know that most consider Eve disobeying God as what lead to the so called fall of man and some say the first sin.

First, since Satan was already cast from heaven and appeared in the garden as the talking snake, I would say that sin was already in existence before Eve ate of the tree of knowledge. Also, the evil tempting by Satan was also before she ate.
Further, the tree of knowledge contained the information of all sins and things evil so God must have known of these sins before hand. Jesus said that all one need do to sin is think about it. The thinking being more or less as bad as the sin itself.
If God is to be the epitome of all things then He would not only be the personification of good but also of evil. Perhaps this is why Christians can say that He is love while at the same time knowing that He is capable of great destruction/evil and genocide.

If Eve had not eaten of the tree of knowledge then man would be as morally bright as any of the lesser animals. This would not be good.
Without the knowledge of good and evil, it is impossible for mankind to form a moral sense.
I do not think that this would be God’s plan. To keep mankind ignorant of morals seems just to silly to contemplate.

Those who believe we fell from Eden must then believe that we are not to have moral sense. Please justify if possible.

Literal scripture says that God wanted obedience without question. As a moral leader, it is difficult to see why He would not want Eve to know, morally, why she was to follow. This would also not give her free will. Something some believe God gave us. I believe that freedom is taken, not given.

We can know that Eve did gain moral sense from the tree of knowledge because right after eating of it she hid and made to cover her unclothedness.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

To believe that Eve fell, we would have to wonder about the above quote. If God created Satan perfect and he somehow could thwart the perfection that God built into him then one can say that that perfection was imperfect because it did not remain so. The same would apply to Eve. Perfection cannot turn to imperfection because that would mean that God Himself might some day become imperfect.
If Eve was perfect then she would have made the perfect choice. Did She?

Should man have a moral sense?
Did God want to deny us a moral sense?
Did Eve do the right thing by reaching out for it?
If the snake was under Satan’s control then why punish it instead of Satan?
As In Job, was Satan just acting as God’s loyal opposition?
Why bring Satan to Eden and pit this supernatural deceiver of all men against a young innocent Eve. She would have no chance at defending herself?

The idea of a fall in Eden just does not want to wash for me. It would show God as a trickster and one who would deny mankind a moral sense. It would also show His perfect works as not worth much if Satan and then Eve and all of us can thwart this perfect programming so easily.

Thoughts."

davidylan:
Europeans are really no better than us at upholding their laws, they are simply better at enforcing them.

The above statement is very false, a look at Nigeria says that we don't know how to uphold and enforce the laws we create at all levels to help us better our society.

nex:
I guess he's one of those leaders that are ruining this country and oppressing the youths.

They should make their demands known. Nollywood should be banned? The movies are corrupting their kids? The quality of Pete Edochie's movies are too poor?


Let's celebrate these terrorists and kidnappers too. They're fighting for a cause. They're fighting a noble cause.

They're not touts and common criminals. They were dressed in suits, I'm sure they are graduates that have been moved to take action against the theme of Pete Edochie's movies.


Who's next? Jay Jay Okocha? Agbani Darego? Chioma Ajunwa? Chimamanda Adichie?


Let's go there!

davidylan:
Simple. The Europeans started out with christianity as a way of life and that was what majority of their nations were built on. We adopted christianity more as a means to an end, God to us is NOT a symbol of worship but a genie to solve all our problems.

It still has nothing to do with the fact that we can not abide by simple laws that we set to help us govern our selves and better our societies. Personally I expect people that believe in divine moral law to uphold laws they set for themselves better than those that do not believe in it at all.

Most Europeans do not believe in God but they take very very good care of each other, the have respect for rule of law and observe basic procedure of how a decent society is supposed to operate, why is it that we that strongly profess a believe in God and divine moral conduct can't do the same? Its really sad.

chukwudi44:
@dalaman

This is another view of the body of st benedeate

I am not talking about the viewing position. Its says that she(her dead body) is wearing a wax mask and hand covering.

chukwudi44:
@ huxley and co

How can science explain this ?

Saint Bernadette Soubirous - St. Bernadette was the original visionary at Lourdes, France and died in 1879 in Nevers, France. Her body was exhumed 30 years later in 1909 and was discovered completely incorrupt and free of odor. The body was again exhumed a second time ten years later in 1919 and was still incorrupt. Her body is still on display in the Chapel of St. Bernadette in Nevers, France to this day. See photo below.

The picture you have there on display is not her real picture according to wikipedia it says "St. Bernadette Soubirous at Nevers was exhumed and put on display with a wax mask and wax hand coverings"


www.nairaland.com/attachments/172371_StBernadette_jpg5162f9cf97b0af012e7e5fdf1a768775
St. Bernadette Soubirous at Nevers was exhumed and put on display with a wax mask and wax hand coverings(Wikipedia)

davidylan:
to start with, claiming that ALL atheists on nairaland were former christians is itself FALSE for someone who has constituted himself to be a "fraud police". You dont know each of them personally . . . you never lived their lives, how did you come to that conclusion?

Their post says that they were all former Christians, Huxley, Tudor,Kag,Mazaje,Bindex,Toneyb,Duduspace,Chrisbengor,Mamustwac,Okia Juju,Wirinet, All these people were former christians who were taught to believe that Jehovah is the only true God. You don't expect them to start going around disproving allah do you?

However your point buttresses justcool's point - the atheist cannot claim there is no god simply because he claims to have proven that the "god" of one religion could not have written its spiritual book. What about other gods he hasnt looked at? Does he believe (based on attacking the bible) that the hindu god isnt real?

The atheist here on NL at least only try to show that the bible and the God of the bible are false. The reason is because that is the only God they were taught to believe in. Moslem atheist whom I have meet quite a few of them based their entire Idea of God based on Allah and the Koran. The whole concept of a supernatural entity rest solely on Allah to them and their atheism depends only on the non existence of Allah whom they were taught to believe is the only creator of the heavens and the earth.

They won't attack any of the hindu gods because they were taught to believe that they were all false.

davidylan:
you've struck a particular point i've been trying to make for so long - the fact that atheism today seems much less about "God" really than it is about simply attacking christianity. For all the noise about them being more familiar with christianity i think the truth is that they see christianity as a threat to their own lifestyle.

Only a heart that is unconsciously aware that the God of the bible is real will spend so much time basing his opinions on God's existence solely on the bible.

This is very false I have atheist friends here who were ex moslems and they base their atheism trying to show or believing that allah is non existent. They base their opinion of God's existence solely on the koran and allah. All the atheist on nairaland were former Christians so you wouldn't expect them to start proving that allah does not exist because Jehovah is the only God they were brought up to believe in. Ex muslims never spend time attacking the bible or the God of the bible they spend all their time attacking the koran and allah.

Ex Christians attack christianity while ex muslims attack Islam. Most of the vocal western were atheist were ex Christians and that is the only religion they know or were raised to believe in. The Christian God is the only God they were raised to believe in.

davidylan:
the big bang, evolution, abiogenesis too? C'mon your basis for belief in those two is dependent on faith.

Why do these things bother you so much? There more Christians that believe in evolution than atheist here, the big bang was coined by a Christian. So many christians believe in these things while so many atheist do not believe in them, your ridiculous attempts to force all atheist as believers in all these does not make sense at all there are so many atheist that do not believe in them.

JIL:
I second your opinion. But why should we be surprised? What do you expect from spineless blighters who hide behind their computers to spew recycled rubbish but lack the courage to defend their stand in public. Anyone who is not man enough to stand for their believe in public and are afraid to die for their opinion should SHUT THE FU*K UP. And that include all atheists.

I know a lot of atheist(Nigerian) here in England that openly express their views with out any fear.The fact that atheist are afraid of coming out in Nigeria tells you that people are not ready to accept them for who they are. I have seen you post a lot about the prophet of Islam and those are what you truly believe about him.

I know you can't tell a member of the boko haram group what you truly feel about their beloved prophet.

Abuzola:
Afix, their god was slapped, beaten and spat on, infact strip naked check mathew 26:67

Will you go and read your koran and stop talking about things you have no understanding of?

afam4eva:
Abuja is a federal capital territory and so everybody from Igbos, yorubas and hausa should be given a chance to govern.

True, I don't know why this is so, every ethnic group should be given a chance to rule the FCT.

noetic2:
what an ignorant riff-raff.

please define prejudice and bias.

Another meaningless emotional outburst, You remain the epitome of bias and prejudice all your post display your prejudice and bias be it against moslems or other christians that disagree with your position.

Kids can embarrass people some times, but they remain cute and sweet.

noetic2:
all four definitions actually fit in. . , . . .but ur position is allowed.


A. here is what prejudice means: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice
1.  an unfavourable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favourable or unfavourable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.


Again I do not fall into this category. All I have done is to offer objective analyses of subjects. . .that u dont agree with my position or that I do not find ur analyses convincing is not due to prejudice but the opposer's inability to present a superior argument.

B. I am not in any way biased. As far as atheists and muslims are concerned, the ugliest part of the bible are the perceived inactions of the children of israel in the OT. I have repeatedly offered my opinion on this issue. That u consider my opinion unacceptable or unreasonable cos it does not correlate with urs, does not make me biased.

I have always held civil discussions on this forum. the tone of my response is usually dictated by the countenance of the other person. Cheers.

Do you know what prejudice and bias mean at all? You are the epitome of prejudice and bias.