₦airaland Forum

Joshthefirst: the same thing that happened to yours sir, nothing. The same light of God that melts wax hardens clay. When you keep being shown the scriptures and preached to like pharoah, you begin to grow used to conviction and you become unrepentant. That is what happened to pharoah. It is only the harsh reality of death that got to him. Don't be like pharoah sir. Respond to God before its too late.

We preach repentance from sins through Jesus Christ with passion and zeal. Because of love within us, Gods love for the sinner. No, we do not ignore the sinner or bomb him to hell like some folks do. We sacrifice for him, we love him. And we preach to him to get salvation from sin. Knowing the terrible reality he will meet if he perishes in his sin.

Respond to reality sir! Do not let your heart be hardened against God. You choose. That's what pharoah did.

I can never understand how you manage to type so many words and still say NOTHING!
But for the verse below, i might have taken your excuse seriously:

Exodus 10:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these signs of mine among them

God tampered with pharaohs free will in order to make himself more attractive to the isrealites.
Shikena!!!

I'm definitely number 6!!!
I don't believe in absolutes, just strong probabilities.
I'm a skeptic, a materialist, and a humanist to varying degrees.

Frieden10: [b][color=#000000]Hi Nairalanders, i have a situation for sometime now. I hear a voice in my head which speaks to to me and tells me things to be done and also give warnings if i fail to accomplish certain task. It started with me speaking in tongues while praying cos i had some problems and i am not a prayerful type, so it was really surprised when i started speaking in tongues. Then i started hearing this voice which tormented me physically by giving me terrible headaches, ill feelings and committing slime etc. Threaten to kill me sometimes.About a month later he suddenly changed to subtle Holly spirit and even saying he is Angel Gabriel, promising me a lot of things..... It is a long story. This has been going o for almost six month now, i went to my GP, he referred me to a psychiatric who prescribed me a drug called Risperidon. I still hear this voice. Please Nairalanders do help me. Does anyone where i can get spiritual help in Naija. I live in Europe and i am a Nigerian. I need help. Please, need serous advice on how to get help in Naija. If anyone knows somebody also hears voices in the head, i would love to have contact with such person to exchange experiences..

Thank you all..[/color][/b]

Stick to your meds dude!
U don't need spiritual help. It will only feed the delusions you're suffering from!
Antipsychotic drugs such as risperidone may take weeks of uninterrupted use before the therapeutic effects become apparent.

For the sake of your loved ones and the society as a whole STAY THE F**K AWAY FROM ASSAULT RIFLES AND SHARP OBJECTS.
More importantly, DON'T come to Nigeria yet ooooooo!!!!

Secularist: Hello y'all.

So i just begun reading this book by Richard Dawkins, and i am eager to discuss the content with enlightened minds.

Pls, proceed...

Joshthefirst: judas chose and his destiny. He choose to betray jesus because of his greed that was already evident. He choose his path. Mind you, judas's name was never called in scripture. The ball was in his court, and he chose to swallow it(). What he did was just foreknown, and was used by God in the plan of salvation. Mind you, judas's name was never mentioned. And Judas repented after he betrayed Jesus. At least, he showed remorse and returned the money, but he didn't trust God enough to forgive him like peter, who denied Jesus too. And he went and hanged himself.

Jesus was born to save man and fulfil scripture. If he died in any other way, he wouldn't have fulfilled scripture and he wouldn't be our messiah.

haaa! Oga frank take am easy ooo I am not coveting God's position ooo! abeg! I am not foolish

You've probably dealt with the passage below in your duels with unbelievers.
But i beg your indulgence...lol

Exodus 9:12►

New International Version
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.

What happened to pharaohs free will in the above scripture?

alcuin: Funny.... I have stated implicitly many times on this thread that the Omniscience of God does not carry the dictionary meaning. Words are coined by man to understand things relative to their abilities. The meaning of the Omniscience of God is not limited to any dictionary meaning, it transcends. And yes! God DOES NOT know the ACTUAL CHOICE of a man. Neither does HE NEED TO know. It is of no consequence to HIM. The knowledge simply DOESN'T COUNT to HIM.

I will not comment on any specifics of "Hitler" and the atrocities of the WARS that have befell mankind, which in any case are the result of their choices. I will not do the thinking for you, lest you will not even want to analyze dispassionately but will first poke holes to show how intelligent you are and impress yourself.

Think about this: Any event you see, whether on a World level, National level or Individual level is a consequence of previous events. In fact, it existed out of the necessity created by previous other events dating back to long ago. So, it is not wise to judge according to the current event alone, you must first draw the series of events that gave rise to the event in question.

N.B: Excuse my vagueness, it is deliberate. I can't think for you guys nah. You guys are smart.

Thanks.

Hmmmmm
I guess there's no point continuing this conversation. Since you can arbitrarily assign any kind of meaning to words, as long as it serves YOUR purpose.
It also seems you're an expert on things that God SHOULD or SHOULDN'T know and even things that ARE or AREN'T of consequence to him.
You KNOW him as much as you KNOW yourself.
In fact you ARE him.

And i still don't believe in you (alcuin/God).

alcuin: To be honest, I don't understand the above. Can you make it clearer?



I gave you in my post. Well, it is in summary; No, God does not know. What ever happens to you is based on your choices and their consequences before the laws.



Your opinion, I respect that.

Well, our choice of words. Omniscience, in the actual sense, means knowing the possible outcomes of anything and making adequate provisions for it. When God created man, He knew that there is a possibility of man falling to sin, so He made provisions for his salvation. But He doesn't know the actuality for man falling or not. Assuming, man did not fall, then the provision for salvation wouldn't have been activated, although it is still there. Even, if man rejects the provision for salvation, God has also made provision for that. In fact, God knows that it is possible for that to happen. So, there are plans beforehand. That is the whole essence of Omniscience.

Look at it, in a different way. God knows where each choice a man takes will lead, and God knows what can save him in any case, and God also knows what will happen to him if he rejects salvation. God also knows what the implications of that possibilty is, and has made provision, from the beginning of existence, for that. In fact, man can not take God unawares by his actions. BUT, the exact choice or path, that man takes is up to him. In fact, there is no need for God to bother Himself to know, He has made all provision sufficient in all case, both known and unknown.
What man experiences is just solely the result of his choices.

Think deeply on my post. You will understand the concept of Omniscience clearer and resolve with the freewill that man possesses.

Thanks....

In your definition of omniscience you dubiously limited your definition to: "knowing the possible outcomes of anything and making adequate provisions for it"
Whereas Dictionary dot com defines it thus:
Omniscient:
adjective
1. having COMPLETE or UNLIMITED KNOWLEDGE, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.
-noun
2. an omniscient being.
3. the Omniscient, God

From the dictionary meaning it is clear that a being with COMPLETE or UNLIMITED KNOWLEDGE would already know the ACTUAL choices a man will make.
Therefore, he doesn't need to create alternate scenarios, since this will imply that he has NO KNOWLEDGE of the ACTUAL choice a man will make.

That aside, from ur explanation above, the following scenario can be inferred:
God created Hitler.
Hitler dreamt of killing jews.
God then proceeded to make available 6 million Jews for slaughter.
Hitler also dreamt of conquering Russia.
God then proceeded to make available 22 million Russians for slaughter.

However for Hitlers choice to be fulfilled, 6million Jews and 22million Russians had to INDEPENDENTLY make a series of choices that inevitably led to THEIR slaughter.

Is this what you're trying to explain to us?

And in the evening he cometh with the twelve. 18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me. 19 And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I? 20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

First Jesus knew who will betray him. Then he wishes the person was never born. But he NEEDS this guy to betray him, so he lets it slide.
THAT'S JUST LOW!!!

OLAADEGBU: Atheists' objections

Walder Frey Said: "If sin disgusts [God] so much, why does He continue to allow it to exist? Isn't He omnipotent and isn't everything according to his will? And all those that supposedly go to Heaven will continue to sin if free will exists in Heaven? Your very flawed question prompts so many more logical questions."

Ray Answers: No, everything isn't according to His will. There are at least two "wills" of God. There is His perfect will, where there is no murder, rape, hatred, racism, lust, rebellion, jealousy, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lying, stealing, blasphemy, etc. God will have His perfect will when His Kingdom comes ("The Day of the Lord", and His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

In the meanwhile, we have His permissive will, where He permits Nazi Germany, abortion, murder, rape, hatred, racism, lust, rebellion, jealousy, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lying, stealing, blasphemy, etc. Here is the reason He is permitting evil:

"But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up" (2 Peter 3:8-10).

In answer to your question about sin in Heaven-Scripture makes it clear that no sin will enter God's Kingdom. So you had better make sure your sins are forgiven. Those who die in their sins will be damned. You can be sure of that. If you would like to live forever, see www.needGod.com

I'll say the ONLY will he has is permissive, as far as man is concerned.
Even from the beginning, he PERMITTED Satan access to Eden.
And don't start with the crap about eve's free will, because God already knew what eve will use it for. Just like Jesus knew Judas will betray him.

Come to think of it, i think the true hero of the bible should be Judas. He knew the consequences of his act of betrayal, being eternal damnation, yet he sacrificed his soul so that Jesus can fulfill his dreams

Y'all Christians owe Judas BIG-TIME!!!

Joshthefirst: you now speak out of plain and willful ignorance sir.

Get to know God first, then you can see if he has a large ego and is evil or not. How can the same God who judges you for sin commit sin? That would make him unjust. God is not unjust. Smh.

The concept of a God has outlived it's purpose. The age of science and logical reasoning is upon us. Empathy rather than fear of hell is becoming the new morality.

Joshthefirst: he's not a hell obsessed God. You're a hell headed person, and He's a love and salvation obsessed God.
That's the reason you hear him calling people to repent everyday. Like now. He's extravagant in saving from sin and giving eternal life.

It's just that some people accept this generous gift. Others refuse and rebel, building shallow false 'reasons' and 'foolish thinking' as their basis for rebellion. Why die? God is not interested in people going to hell.

For the wages of sin is death, but the FREE-GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

"Free-Gift"?
What about the mandatory tithes and all the hours spent stroking his ego (prayers)?

If i were to construct a God, i wud furnish him with some way and qualities and characteristics which the present lacks. He would not stop to ask for any man's compliments, praises, flattery and he will be far above exacting them-- Mark Twain

Joshthefirst: everyone that commits sin and is unwillingling to be free from sin is evil and rebellious and unloving. Sin is bad. Get your priorities straight sir. For sin, God will cast a man into hell for eternity. That's serious stuff.

All the more reason not to believe in your hell obsessed god

rationalmind: There is something here I just noticed. Most atheists here on nairaland seem not to live in nigeria. Logicboy, plaetton, weigraf, mazaje, muskeeto, bindex e.t.c

Seems its safe for me to assume that, majority of them, if not all wouldn't have been atheists had they stayed in Nigeria all through.

This leaves me with one major conclusion, its extremely difficult to break those chains of childhood religious indoctrination most especially when ure in a country like nigeria.

Are there others (atheist or agnostic) here, other than me, who despite not leaving the shores of this country renounced their childhood indoctrination?

Home grown Atheist reporting for duty, sir yes sir!!!
LOL

Joshthefirst: bad belle

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

In plain English: everyone that refuses Jesus is EVIL. And non believers only refuse Jesus in order to shield their EVILNESS

And y'all r supposed to be lambs? LOL

[quote
author

OLAADEGBU: Thank God you're wrong.

https://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/blog/show-me-a-sign-cartoon.jpg

Reason is not automatic, those who deny it cannot be conquered by it-- Ayn Rand

Joshthefirst: God extended his perfection to earth and made everything good

To create is to cause to exist.

Lmao
Yes, i can see his perfection in the exotically designed polio and rubella viruses, the poisonous scorpions, spiders and snakes, and most of all, the serenity of deadly hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes.

Isn't he worthy of praise...lolz

Joshthefirst: so creation is an act of imperfection?

As i said earlier:
The fact that God NEEDED to create is an

attribute of imperfection.

To create is to bring about "change".

ANY sort of change to a perfect state of

being is an embellishment.

Therefore, God is not a perfect entity to begin with

Joshthefirst:
'If left alone'
Do you know what it means to cause something to exist?
How would it be left alone if it didn't exist?

Dude, d issue is: why did God "NEED" to create if he(God) was already PERFECT to begin with.

@Rhymeyjohn

Change:
verb (used with object)
1. to make the form, nature, content, future course, etc., of (something) different from what it is or from what it would be if left alone

By "causing to exist", God has altered the course of something, and made it different from what it would be if left alone.
If God was perfect, why embellish that perfection with creation?

[quote author=OLAADEGBU][/quote]The fact that God NEEDED to create is an attribute of imperfection.
To create is to bring about "change".
ANY sort of change to a perfect state of being is an embellishment.
Therefore, God is not a perfect entity to begin with.

I hope the guy doesn't fall for the "come and appear on the part2 of d show" trap ??

If it was a miracle, why did they need the doctors to REVIVE the patient?