₦airaland Forum

alcuin: Where have I alluded to fixated meaning? The meaning, I gave to the word "omniscience" is personal opinion and as such can not be found in any dictionary, AFAIK. I think, you guys are the ones trying to size Divinity into the little frame of dictionary words and meanings.

As an aside, it is really worrisome when men create the standards by which God is judged. Most atheists go as far to set conditions, which must be meant by God, for them to believe in God. Well, God doesn't succumb to man' intellectual whims and masturbations.....lol, ( I remember that phrase from school). Man don't set the rules, God does.

Thanks.

Of course man has to create standards, how else will we be able to tell reality from hallucinations?
I think the problem here is the mysteriousness of the process by which you gain knowledge of God.
As an empiricist, i don't believe in knowledge gained outside "sense experience". Such knowledge is too open to the forces of falsehood

alcuin: Your logic is staggering. I think it borders on ignorance. Are you perchance saying that meanings of words do not change with time? In fact, it may well happen that the word "good" will be extinct in the next 2000 yrs. I even doubt if it existed 3000 yrs ago.
Consider the word "Lucifer". Isn't it worrisome that the word meaning "bearer of light" is now given to the so called spirit of darkness? If in the next 2000 yrs, going by this trend, the word becomes synonymous with darkness, will u ever think it was once associated with light and beauty? That is, if you stand on current meanings.
That was just an instance. I'm not a Luciferian apologist.
Thanks.

Why are you comparing a word to a name?
If the meaning of the name of a serial killer is "love", does that automatically change the meaning of love?
We're talking about a word, not a name!

That aside, u said that it's humanly impossible to understand God because of man's finiteness. Does that mean that there are no attributes of God that YOU are ABSOLUTELY sure of?

nwuyag: @ rationalmind and david hume
Did you guys deduce what I was trying to say by "inherent"?
what I meant was there is a small unit in the definitions of a word, which no matter the time or its usage or corrections, will never change. Eg, There is no way the word "make" (which can be used in many ways) mean "take". Did you get me well?, Correct me where I am wrong. I dont think alcuin or image123 are in the best position to do that.

I understand what u mean...lol
By their analogy, the word good will have lost its meaning in 1000yrs or so. NON of the current dictionary meanings will be able to give people of the future an idea of what it meant!!!

alcuin: lol....I would love to answer you but it will take us way off the topic of this thread. But just a question, do you really think God spoke English, Greek or Aramaic words to bible writers

Do i REALLY think God spoke...?
Should you be asking an atheist this kind of question?
Am i missing something here?

alcuin: With regards to the meaning of words, if you say words have inherent meaning. How then can you explain the fact that over the course of centuries, meaning of words change gradually? If in the next 400 years, the meaning of the word "ominscience" change slightly different from what it means now. Would you then say the attribute of God that we consider to mean omniscience has also changed?

We give meaning to words, not the other way round. And the meaning we give, depends on a number of factors including context of use, our awareness, education, experience and understanding.

Clinging to fixed dictionary meanings that will change in future editions is preposterous and seeking to understand the Divine on their basis is simply foolhardy.

But what is the point arguing with a deaf man from birth about the existence of sound?

Thanks....

Why then will God choose an imperfect medium such as words of the bible, to communicate with us?

In a way, ur argument above is enough grounds to debunk the bible as hogwash!

Since, as you said, the true meaning of words can be lost over time, we can't be ABSOLUTELY sure of the true meaning of the bible! Or did God personally footnote ur own edition of the bible?

ajayikayod: Evangelist david_hume, in dt my narrow analogy i discovered dt bein a doctor is a profession, Is atheism a profession too. Doctors as medical professionals may hav religion, beliefs, disbelief outside d profession as we hav scientists who ar Christians, atheist etc. But atheism is clearly not a profession its a religion of disbelief as Christianity is about belief in God thru Christ.

See, u hav been lured into a religion of denial unknowingly. Its not glaring now to u followers but will come clear later.

So, enlighten me. What are the "SPECIFIC FUNDAMENTAL set of beliefs and PRACTICES generally agreed upon" by all atheists?

ajayikayod: I highlighted whr ur religion fits in and if u disagree on dt u can hav ds.

I belief u kno dt ATHIESM IS ABOUT DISBELIEF. Every disbelief comes from a stand of believin in somethings or knowledge.
So far dt u hav a set of disbelief (belief) concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of superpower, u r a religion sect.

Actually some of ur sect ar called Darwinist. Its a matter of time, u guys will b bold enough to start meeting together.

By your narrow analogy, every doctor belongs to the religion of medicine. Since they all have a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons?

I tire for you o!

Logicboy03: Best way to avoid it is to organise it in a public place eg a popular bar or restaurant as a group thing with many people.....that way, molesters like yourself cant prowl in the shadows

That STILL won't cut it though.
No matter the location in naija, atheists r outnumbered a thousand to one!
And nothing unites Muslims and christians like an atheist bonfire night!

I'm gonna miss y'all

Logicboy03: Religion eg christianity never admits that it is wrong
Science does.


Funny how empty science beats christianity in humility

Well said bro.

ajayikayod: Darwinist, pls can u define wat a religion is? Just give me a simple definition. Then we will kno whr u belong.

Lmao
Darwinist?! Are u for real? Y'all crack me up big time

I think the dictionary defines it better than i ever could:
RELIGION;
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
-Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
(a) to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
(b) to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

ajayikayod: Dt mit take minutes, but ds has taken some ppl a life time, dont b lik dt, its d most foolish tin dt can happen to a man.

If u can b honest wit ur self u will kno dt havin a good teacher is not all needed to understand such. Ur corporation wit d teacher and attitude to learn from him (trust) gav u edge over others.

in d other case, ds ur present attitude towards knowing a creator is constrained by lack of trust in finding Him.

It's not compulsory to have TRUST in the teacher, as long as the EVIDENCE is solid and u have the brain to look at things objectively.

That's the problem with you guys, always appealing to authority!

ajayikayod: Ur understanding of such geography definately took some days for clarity, hence it cost ur ignorance for those days. D way u r going now i hop ur ignorance and disbeliev on d truth wont cost u eternity.

Actually, it only took minutes because i had a good teacher...
And thanks to such geography classes, i was able to discover how ignorant christians are to believe this:

12 On the day theLordgave the Amoritesover to Israel, Joshua said to theLordin the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”

13 So the sun stood still,
and the moon stopped,
till the nation avenged itself on[b]its enemies,
as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
The sun stoppedin the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when theLordlistened to a human being. Surely theLordwas fightingfor Israel!

JMAN05: He knew as free moral agents, they make their decisions either to follow Him or not, but He doesnt know beforehand that they will choose a part of disobedience. in fact trying to know such things is pointless since He is creating free moral agents, not robots.

After all He had created angels, perhaps many years before creating men, but they were faithful to Him all through before humans came on board. In short He has no need to predetermine their future as He was creating free moral agents.

You don't get it.
If God is TRULY inherently omniscient TO BEGIN WITH, he would have known the consequences of free will and the choices of every unborn human as "free moral agents". Then he may now decide AFTERWARDS to turn the other cheek.
Unless you're telling me that God can re-program himself to UN-KNOW stuff.

E.g: you have the ability to see, but all you could see is nak*d women, so you pluck out your eyes, it doesn't change the fact that you've seen nak*d women before, does it?

WRONG!
Satan was once an angel before he disobeyed God.

ajayikayod: Actually, u r d one who carries god in ur head who is yet to reveal itself to u but working in u. U r just contradicting urself in all ur claims. Did u missed any of ur foundation classes. I ve told u ur Prophet Hawkins knows better.

Why are y'all trying to foist the notion of an atheist prophet on us?
We have no dogma, no leaders, and no "holy" books.

The absurdity of religion is clear for anyone bold enough to question the status-quo!!!

rapture_ready: N.O.T. C.O.O.L. Man. So sad.

If you've been reading the bible all these years with unbelief, how do you expect it to make any meaning to you?

If you read ANY book, with your mind preconditioned to disbelieve it, do you think it will make any kind of meaning to you?



Well those other people, who wrote/inspired other religions that claim access to God - NONE OF THEM RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD! NOT EVEN PURPORTEDLY!

While their founders (mohammed, buhda, et all) are dead and gone (I mean their followers don't even bother to claim they are even alive), Jesus died, rose again, and is still alive! (Cue oga troll asking me for proof )

When my geography teacher told us that the earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around, i was filled with UNBELIEF!
Until he proved it using the change in seasons.

So u CAN read a book with disbelief at first and be convinced of its truth value after.

That's the difference between science and the fairytale u call the bible!!!

texanomaly: Sorry. It was more a general reply. Not nessecarily aimed at you. I guess I should have just hit reply. Quoting has become a bad habit. Again, apologies.

owk

texanomaly: I am a Christian. I believe abortion is warranted in the case of rapeorincest.

That being said, if a woman chooses to carry the child, odoption is always an option. After all the child had no choice in this matter.

Thank you jare.
But i think Joshthefirst needs this reply more than i do!

lana_Vello: lwkmd,thats rily pathetic of him except it was an error.
besides,any need proving adam existed....yet to meet any1 that thinks otherwise sha#peacE!

Wow!
It took you NINE posts to figure it out!

Though, i still doubt that you have

Joshthefirst: God's word and nurturing heals trauma and makes children grow into strong and godly men.

You've branched off now, you're talking now of others and actions and saying I don't act. You don't even know me.

So if this happens to you, are you ABSOLUTELY sure that the child will not be affected by the trauma? Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that your wife, your real children and your family members will not stigmatise the child, even when you're not there to defend him?

And please don't tell me that you'll leave it in the hands of God, because like you've always said God doesn't interfere with free will.
If your wife and children decide to maltreat the child, its according to THEIR free will, hence God is helpless in that situation!

So it ain't just about you!

Joshthefirst: the fact that you still argue like this blindly and some people agree with you is horrifying. If a child is born of rape, raise the child as your own. Its not his fault. His life will testify of the forgiveness and forbearance of God in this sin-ridden world.
It is pathetic that you would even think of killing an innocent to spare you memory.

When God condemns a guilty, you cry "unjust" when God forgives the guilty, you cry "unjust"
And yet you will boldly kill an unborn child. Pathetic.

There is a very high probability that if the child should know d circumstances of his birth he might not recover from the trauma.
But you're prepared to take that risk in order to conform to your dogma.
There are hundreds of thousands of orphaned kids in this country, how many have your christian brethren adopted?
Even your pastors with all their wealth, how many orphans have they adopted?
Those are orphans o! Not the child of a man that rap*d their wife!

You can mouth all the values you like, but when it comes to ACTIONS, y'all will be found wanting!

lana_Vello: your wife gets rap*d&pregnant,religion or not,abortion shud be d last thing you'd tell her to do. its not her fault neither is it the foetus' fault.
this is common sense and conscience in play here!

Common sense is sparing ur entire family d memory of the r*pe, which will be manifested in the child.

However, I'll take it back if you convince me that the standard practice amongst christian husbands is to raise the son of the man that rap*d their wives as their own.

JMAN05: * inherent omniscience - the ability[/b]to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
* total omniscience -[b]actually knowing everything that can be known.

So God has the ability, but chooses not to use it always.

check wikipedia.com

Since he is INHERENTLY omniscient, it means he already knows the consequences of "free will" even before he gave it to man.
The moment he conceived the idea of free will, he knew IMMEDIATELY what the consequences will be.
Therefore, saying that he chooses not to know our choices because of free will is absolute NONSENSE!

Not even the christian God can eat his cake and STILL have it!

Joshthefirst: I'm telling you. We're stopping murder and the guy is calling me a murderer and a demeaner. Smh

Yeah.
Lets say your wife gets rappped, i guess you'll raise the child as your own.
Its the christian thing to do ain't it?

Joshthefirst: I'm sorry to say this, but quit your yabbing.

Tell me how being a christian degrades and makes one a murderer and thief.

I take insults on this forum everyday, I am reduced and you say I reduce others?

Christianity brings love and salvation to man from God.

As for you, you are a prime example of what everyman who refuses to acknowledge and repent his problems of sin is.

Its not about me and my 'stupidity'
Its about the fact that if man does not have a change of nature, this world will continue to grow rotten and many will pay for their wicked ways in hell.
Nonsense.

You better face the real problem of mankind and do away with modalities

At the moment, Christianity is stopping rape victims from getting abortion!

texanomaly: Lolz

And he thinks miricles don't exist.





Shhhh...we won't tell him...it'll be our secret

Ain't nothing to tell dude!

Reyginus: How do you mean, bro?

I know people who got positions just because they know one pastor or the other.
Shouldn't there be some form of integrity in allowing the normal process to take its course?
Instead you see people using "church" connections to get ahead of probably more competent candidates

I find it interesting that religious people don't see nepotism as sin!

Ihedinobi: However, new findings have never made old science a lie, have they? Newton didn't know quantum physics but have his equations for motion been destroyed as false? They haven't. They have been refined. They can even be used unrefined under certain conditions (the very conditions under which they were crafted, I might add) without loss.

Figure out my point, if you can

Hope you're not trying to put words in my mouth o!
I said "all of them are correct under certain conditions". I didn't say anything about old science being false o!

mazaje: It depends on what you mean by god. . .I am a 7 when it comes to gods like Jesus, Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, Ra, Zeus etc. . .All these gods do not exist and are a creation of humans. . .In fact all the gods of man made religions are man made so I know that Allah or Yahweh for example do not exist in reality because humans created and formed those god ideas. . .

I concur!!!

Science has a way of humbling a guy!
You continually have to update your knowledge. Nothing is set in stone.

I remember learning the gas laws in school...lol
From Boyles law to Charles Law, Perfect gas, kinetic theory, Absolute zero etc.
All of which are correct under certain conditions.

People in Isaac Newton's time had a mechanistic view of the world till the age of quantum physics.
But my favourite of them all is Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. I'm sure it gives every true skeptic a wet dream every now and then...

Joshthefirst: as I said earlier, you're already showing symptoms of hardenness of heart. I just typed a good reply to your question and you say I said nothing. Your heart isn't pricked. You've toughened it up against God's word.

Some of the conclusions you guys make from the bible make me want to fall off my bed. Smh. Stop reading stjupid meanings and listen to those who really understand. Those the bible was written for.
Go and read my reply to your question again sir.
I leave you with these verses

Exodus 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.(KJV)

Exodus 8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Do you see now? Ask yourselves important questions sir. Is your heart hardened against God

Why don't you address the verses where God HIMSELF hardened pharaohs heart.
Instead you seek refuge in verses that suit YOUR idea of God!

But you're not to blame.
Religion starts with an assertion.
Science starts with a question!

I feel you mehn!
The whole idea is just pathetic and childish.
Ignorance is bliss!