₦airaland Forum

AreaFada2:
My brother, somebody who spews all kinds of things about the palace, who be me?
Abeg pay no heed.

I feel sorry for him sha. He seeks answers but his mind his clouded with confusion and it limits his understanding..

UGBE634:
I am not the insulting type, he subtly insulted me in his other post, I had to return the energy. An energy not retuned especially the negative one might affect you. I respected his person here but you cannot write in that manner to me because I respect you, I will not return it, I match energy for energy

He was educating you not insulting you. AreaFada is a man of vast knowledge in historical matters and its state of play. You should learn from him, you will be a better person.

UGBE634:
There is no time I hid that, my paternal grandmother is from there. When it comes to Esan history, you are a novice

If there is anyone daft here in history and organization here it is you, how did the many nonsense you wrote relate to what we are talking about

I was trying to establish three points

one of them was this

That Irrua never went beyond a soft power, more like a spiritual head, if you have as much as 2 percent of knowledge of Esan history, you will know this

The second was That the Original meaning of Ojie/Ogie/Ovie was and is still king,

The third one is that you cannot use the word stuck for Esan because she is an Edoid but you can use for Itsekiri, if you don't get this point, then you are showing symptoms of low IQ

You have started fighting yourself again this early morning.. well it's a normal thing for aggrieved and self hating people to behave like you are doing now.. kpele oooo

AreaFada2:
Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

Very well said bro.
Some people like this UGBE634 out of low self esteem come up with absurd and foolish opinion just to make themselves feel better.
I have come across a few Edo people like that, i just look at them and laugh. They are lost.

UGBE634:
Ogie as a word seem to have been limited in Use and practice since the Emergence of Oba in Benin, I am talking about the meaning, the true meaning of the word before the Emergence of Obas.

. In this case, it is talking about the fact that the several kings who go by the name Ogie cannot emerge as Oba (as the Oba, a position which was alien to us and whose meaning we cannot decipher, whose influence we feared. whose might we adore, that is why I refered him as emperor, because we cannot call someone king, whose title we cannot dissect that statement is deep, it is trying to show the dichotomy of the word Oba/Ogie and the conflict between them, it is talking about how one is far bigger than the other in Benin traditional practice. How one seem to have been subdued for another, Ogie-irrioba.

Oba'r'Ogie means Oba is king, Oba as a word is not native, when you understand that, you will be good, but I know comprehension is clearly not your forte


Oba as a word is not native, Oba'nOgie means Oba the king, the Binis referring to him as Ogie is referring him as king in the language they understand

Osaro ne' Enogie is used for description, to describe properly the person you are talking about.

For example- Osaro rhio Okhuo ne

Meaning- Osaro has gotten married o

Someone will now ask, De-Osaro no khin?

Someone will now ask-which Osaro

The reply would be- Osaro ne' Enogie oghe Egbean?

Meaning- Osaro that is the king Over Egbean
Meaning- Osaro that is the king of Egbean

that is why I keep asking, there were some Enogies in Benin before the Emergence of Obas in Benin who were they under


When you answer that question, your ignorance is cured for life

Another lesson for you:

To "gie" means to direct or lead the way. "Ogie" is the person that leads..
Ogieisoba; this means no ruler (Enogies, okaevbo) is above the king
Oba r'Ogie means King is ruler.

Someone like you will say king and ruler means the same thing not knowing that ruler is descriptive while king is actually a title.
Same logic is behind Ogie and Oba

As for the system of governance before the Obas era not much is known, only that there was Ogisos who ruled all of Igodomigodo. If every part of Igodomigodo was independent like you suggest then each part would have had an Ogiso but from what we know there was only one Ogiso for all of Igodomigodo.
This will suggest that all other parts were not independent and were under the Ogiso.

UGBE634:
like Jesu'noba and Jesu n'Ogie means one and the same thing, just that one is local and the Other is Foreign

Enogie and Ogie means one and the same thing

I wish Bini has grown to the size of yoruba, where it is spoken by non natives, you guys would have seen the height of this boy's foolishness

The only foolishness seen here is the one radiating from you.. Even you know your are foolish.

UGBE634:
You seem to beunrepentantly foolish, the word the is an english word. You only use the when speaking English.

Enogie-the En there is confering the Ogieship on a person.

For instance, you say En[/b]Ogie oghe Egbean.

The word Ogie is king, not confering it on a person
[b]En[/b]ogie-means [b]the king. The en there makes the Enogie, definite confining it to a person.


There was nothing like duke until the Emergence of Obas in Benin. Up until the time of Obas in Benin, who were the Ogies in Benin under, I ask

Comprehension remains the most difficult thing for you. See the way you are foolishly slicing words like sliced bread lol..

Enogie oghe Egbean simply mean Duke of Egbean.
Saying, Osaro ne' enogie oghe egbean will mean Osaro the enogie (duke) of egbean.

Ogie is generic word describing ruler
Oba simply mean King
Enogie is one word and it means duke.

UGBE634:
Royalty is already a group of Royalty, there is nothing like a group of Royalty, Royalty as a word is limitless

you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Using Ogie in that contest Oba mu-ogie me would not make sense

Your ignorance is appalling.. I'm trying to help you but you refusing any help.

What is the meaning of Ogierioba in Edo language? Or you never heard the saying, "Oba n'Ogie" in Edo language? Do you know what they mean?

Also if Osaro is an enogie, do you say in Edo; Osaro Enogie or Osaro ne' Enogie?
Osaro ne' enogie means Osaro the enogie.

Enogie is one word, splitting it into 2 words is like saying Kingsley is King Sley..

Ogie is a generic word for ruler. Oba (king) of Benin is the Ogie (ruler) of all Edos, enogies are smaller rulers (ogies) in their domains.
If you understand the difference between ruler and king you will probably understand difference between Ogie and Oba.

Anyways i know your brain just can't comprehend what i just wrote, maybe Efewestern can help you lol..

scholes0:
Bros, When a Benin person says Ijesu n'Ogie, what does it mean?

Does it mean Jesus is a smaller duke?

Ijesu n' Ogie means Jesus the ruler
Ijesu n' Oba means Jesus the King
Ijesu ne' Enogie means Jesus the duke, however we don't say Ijesu ne' enogie because he is more than a duke. We either say Jesus the ruler(ogie) or Jesus the king(Oba).

UGBE634:
I can't be talking with a non-entity like you,
Ogie- king
Enogie-Talks of the personage, The king. I am not arguing with you,I am telling you I am not your mate. Oba is anything but native, has no meaning whatsoever in Edo

If it was a non Benin person arguing like this I will have more tolerance for their ignorance but for you that calls your self Benin, you are outright dumb.
How can Enogie mean "the ruler" yet when refering to the title holder we say "The Enogie" or "an Enogie". Enogie is one word and simply means Duke but a low self esteem man like you will not understand.

UGBE634:
when we talk of IQ levels, you are obviously very low. Did you even understand what I wrote? Please stop quoting me

What you wrote is clear as day light. Don't be embarrassed if your errors are called out.

UGBE634:
see who is correcting my written Bini, Ogie is king
Enogie means the king

Their powers are not limited to being dukes, it is because Bini seem to have had a centralized system whose root is obviously foreign.

If you are actually Bini (which you are not), you will understand that Enogie means The ruler, not the king as you falsely or blindly assume.
And they are dukes, subordinate to the Great Oba of Benin.

UGBE634:
I am trying to compare the Ogie scenario in Itsekiri to the Oba scenario in Benin vis a vis yoruba groups. I am trying to say how laughable it would be if the Itsekiri come up in some years time to say the Ogie title is native, such laughable scenario can be compared to what some Binis are doing with the "Oba" title

Well Itsekiri won't be far from the truth in that regards. They migrated to a land owned by an Ogie and given accommodation by the Ogie, so the title is actually native to that land.

Your still dey learn bro.

Efewestern:
Ogie is not Duke bro. Ogie is king. There's no way you want to twist this hard fact. Quote me anywhere. Ogie means KING.

All name that has Oba attached to it are traced to Bini. No other Edoid group bears any Oba title. They all make use of Ogie. So why should we believe that Oba is the rightful word for King instead of the well accepted Ogie?

Oba of Uvwie 😂

Ogie may mean ruler not necessarily King. In all of Edo south no ruler goes by the title Ogie, it's Enogie and their powers/functions are limited to being Dukes.
Outside of Edo south like Delta Ogie may mean King but in Edo south it has a different meaning and function. Oba is king here and Ogie/Enogie are dukes.

UGBE634:
I think I have seen something close, it is just like the Olu in some years will now say that Edo got the Ogie title from Itsekiri when the etymology is clearly in Edo

Just like you Yorubas are now saying it was yorubas that founded lagos, that Benin never ruled parts of Yoruba lands that Ife was an empire, and now saying Yoruba introduced the Obaship to Benin when it is actually the other way around.

UGBE634:
Nor be mouth you nor reach

Let's keep our interactions within nairaland and the topic. If we venture out of it to learn about each other in real life you may be shocked and intimidated by what you find out. In fact, You go actually shock sha, so make we leave talk of who reach or who no reach lol..

UGBE634:
I cant write Bini properly, there is no where I have said I can write it properly. There is nothing like proven to be fake, there is nothing to gain from the identity my brother

Your problem is that you don't come with facts or sources to buttress or prove a point but instead you are filled with questions, confusion and lack of understanding. And when one try to answer your questions, give you reasonable food for thought you become rebellious.
It seems you cannot comprehend the Oba stool being local to Benin but at same time you actually cannot find a true connection with Ife.
It's same way the Yorubas cannot comprehend how Benin Kingdom conquered and rule them for over 700years.

UGBE634:
Tu khian wabua Oriovbe

I say it again, you are not worthy to untie my sandals. If you fail at comprehension which seem to be the foundation of Education, you shouldn't be talking to me we are not mate

The first symptoms of Education is comprehension, if you fail at that, you will fail at anything. If there is anywhere I pride myself in the languages I understand is comprehension, infact it is 💯

The bolded above is not proper bini language. A truly educated Bini man will know how to properly spell/write that sentence. Once again you have proven yourself to be fake.

Can you tie your own sandals? That should be your first question to yourself. A man that doesn't understand his own roots is a lost man even to himself.

UGBE634:
I said it, you write like someone that is weak and lack substance, I said it even Ekpoma is a weak school. The first symptoms of Education is comprehension, if you fail at that, you will fail at anything. If there is anywhere I pride myself in the languages I understand is comprehension, infact it is 💯

Yoruba man, you can cry me a river

It is funny that for someone that claims to have all the comprehension in the world but yet find himself in a confused state, can't even decipher written statements or oral texts shows how much of comprehension skills you have..

What I learned from Ekpoma far outweighs everything you have learned from wherever you went to school..

UGBE634:
because I am not following your school of thought, go and reread my post and see your initial fuckup, we are not mate. I had rated you more than this, you are giving the gregyboy vibe

It's like you went to Auchi too, I have emboldened the "seem" in my own interpretation in case you are sight-defficient

e pain you eh lol.. Calm down.
From your posts and questions, one can see that your are full of confusion and seek answers but don't want to accept the obvious truth.

You claim the Oba stool is foreign but Like Samuk pointed out, large parts of yourba lands copied the Benin Monarchy style and not the other way round and this is a proven fact. So who now is practicing a foreign monarchy style judging with this information?

From 15th century up till late 19th century there was no mention of Ife or the monarchy being foreign to Benin (only in 1830 it was documented as being foreign but from a different place not yoruba land).

Anywas I rest my case with you, you cannot be saved.
By the way, I went to Ekpoma.. Auchi is also a great sxhool.

RedboneSmith:
Nawa oh. The English that Ryder wrote is quite clear na. Why are you people reading something else there? 😳 It's rather weird.

Let me provide further quotes from that same chapter "The Benin Kingdom" written by AFC Ryder. It is chapter 6 in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History edited by Professor Obaro Ikime, for anyone who wants to check it out for themselves.

On page 110, Ryder wrote: "At the end of the 15th century, the first Portuguese visitors to Benin were told that the Ọba received investiture and regalia from a distant potentiate whom the Edo knew as Ogane; this 'suzerain' may have been the Oni of Ife. Before 1897 parts of the body of a dead Ọba were sent to Ife for burial. But although there are good grounds for accepting some ritual and dynastic relationship between Benin and Ife, exactly how it was established is hard to determine. "

Further down on page 112, after mentioning that Benin chiefs told Captain Roupell in 1898 that Benin people sent to Ife in the Yoruba country for a king and Eweka was sent to them, Ryder wrote this in conclusion: " The most that one can safely conclude from this evidence is that Eweka was probably the first Ọba to rule in Benin, and that he was probably of Yoruba origin, though not necessarily first-hand from Ife."

There are "maybes" and "probablys" in Ryder's submission, because, of course, when you're working with oral tradition (and even written evidence in some cases) there is nothing like 100% certainty. But it is clear from the chapter that you derived your initial misquote from that Ryder was actually leaning towards a Yoruba (if not specifically Ìfẹ́) origin for the Eweka Dynasty.

Let me reiterate that I do not necessarily agree or disagree with what Ryder had to say. I don't care one way or another. My entire point is simply: Don't misquote a scholar in order to make a point.

Also, I see a screenshot flying around from a paper Ryder wrote where he pointed to the Niger-Benue area. The screenshot comes from a paper Ryder wrote in 1965 called "A Reconsideration of Ife-Benin Relationship". The predominant view in Nigerian historiography until 1965 was that the Eweka Dynasty was of Yoruba (Ife) origin. In 1965, Ryder came up with an interesting new theory which he published in that paper. It was really interesting and sparked off a conversation in scholarly circles. JK Thornton building on that even wrote his own paper, where he argued that the Ogane was the Ata of Igala. In any case, both Ryder's and Thornton's theories never really caught on in academic circles. It even appears that Ryder himself came to question his theories later in his career, because in this chapter (that I have quoted and you have misquoted) that he wrote for the book Groundwork of Nigerian History in 1980, he did not mention his 1965 hypothesis at all, but seems to have reverted to the traditional orthodoxy of a Yoruba (even if not specifically Ife) origin for the Eweka Dynasty.

Peace. Happy Sunday ✌️

You have more sense than that Ugbe boy, but your post once again is full of assumptions. we don't learn about history using assumptions or unfounded claims by one group. And I can see you are only picking pages from Ryder's work that suits your narrative. However Ryder's work was never about advocating and proving an Ife/Benin relationship but instead it was about all the inconsistencies and different narratives about the supposed relationship, and He cast a doubt wether such relationship existed.

When the Portugese wrote about Ogane, they could as well have said Ife or whatever name it was known by at that time. The Portugese in their writings mentioned names of places they visited and also names of places the natives told them existed even if the Portugese never saw those places, yet Ife wasn't mentioned anywhere because it didn't exist or had no significance to Benin.

No chiefs ever told Captain Roupell in 1897 about Ife sending a ruler to Benin. Roupell only wrote about a tale he heard of an Eweka coming to Benin. He never mentioned he came from Ife.

Ryder also mention a research done in 1830 by a European on Benin history. He said the eurpoean was told about a white man who came over the great water being the founder of Benin monarchy. My point and Ryder's point here is that even in 1830 Ife wasn't mentioned.

I am not misquoting Ryder's work, it is you that do not understand the purpose of Ryder's work.

Happy Sunday to you too.

UGBE634:
"we seem to tread on firmer ground when we come to the traditions which recount in some detail how a number of Benin chiefs, rather than accept one of their own number as an hereditary ruler, sought a sovereign from the Yoruba dynasty ruling in Ife. There is nothing inherently implausible in this story"

For those who seem to have problem with comprehension, this is what he meant

"That we seem to be closer to the truth or we seem to have a more solid ground, if we stand on the tradition that some Benin chiefs went to Ife to get someone from the yoruba country rather than take one of their own as king. That there is nothing impossible in that story."

The second write up by ryder is this

What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."

What this second write up means is this

What unique features, attributes, characteristics that this present ruling Oba's line brought from its place of Origin we cannot ascertain or really point out, because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba people at this early date.

But it seem strongly that the unique feature or characteristics seem to be the monarchy itself, and that the unique features noticed in the king of Benin vis-a-vis other yoruba kings that is used to argue non-relationship seem to have emerged in the ruling class of Benin after it must have become accustomed in its Edo environment in the latter years.

Lol.. Please stop confusing yourself further. This your interpretation will only give you f9.
when a researcher uses the phrase "it seems" it means he didn't find any evidence to make a factual conclusion.

And this second statement; "What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."" simply mean that afterall studies he finds no similarities between Edo people and their monarchy against the Yorbuas and their monarchies. No single similarity, nothing for him to suggest indeed there was a relationship.

Go back to English class bro.

samuk:
Benin history is vast. Benin was the dominant force, kingdom and empire in ancient times. Benin history extended into the east, west and middle belt.

1. There is Benin/ Nupe-Igala relationship and Igala traditions acknowledged Benin dynasty in Igala land and seems to agree with the Imaguero history of Benin.

2. Olaudah Equiano who is believe to be Ibo referenced Benin in his book written in the 1700s as being his Kingdom, which means his enclave in the East (Igbo land) acknowledged Benin kingdom as the dominant kingdom in the 1700s.

3. There is Benin Lagos relationship recorded by the Europeans in 1602.

4. The Benin/Ida war was recorded in history by the European.

There is absolutely nothing that linked Benin to Ife throughout history until after the fall of Benin empire.

People with very limited knowledge of Benin history tried to understand Benin history from their local interactions with the kingdom in the past. An Urhobo perspective is different from Ika perspective. Igala traditions of Benin is different from Lagos traditions and perspective of Benin.

Benin history is huge and expansive, it's not a local Usen/Urhonigbe affair.

The Benin/Ife connection story reduces Benin history to insignificant, this is why experts whose Europeans ancestors have documented Benin history over the centuries can not stomach the disservice done to it.

Good work bro..
Even the European researchers doubt the Benin/Ife relationship being told by the Yorubas because from their own studies of the two people and their respective monarchies they find absolutely no similarities or even a little evidence to suggest the relationship might actually exist.
That is why in their books they always state that it was the Yorubas that said so and not from their reasearch.

RedboneSmith:
Wow. Sir, what mischief is this? Why are you re-writing the words of the late A. F. C. Ryder? This intellectual dishonesty is not necessary na.

You took the words that the late historian wrote in his chapter "Benin Kingdom" in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History and you mangled it to say the opposite of what the historian wrote.

Ryder did not write that Benin sending for an alien (Yoruba) ruler was inherently implausible. These are Ryder's exact words: "...we seem to tread on firmer ground when we come to the traditions which recount in some detail how a number of Benin chiefs, rather than accept one of their own number as an hereditary ruler, sought a sovereign from the Yoruba dynasty ruling in Ife.

Yes, Ryder did say that next to nothing was know about the Yoruba at that early date, but a full quote illustrates that he was not heading to the conclusion that your mangled quote portrays. Ryder's words in full on page 112 of the same book:" What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."

There is no doubt that Professor Ryder was a proponent of the "Out of Yorubaland" theory as regards the current Benin dynasty. There is nothing wrong with you holding a different opinion from this. But to wilfully distort a scholar's words is a hell of a desperate move. Not cool, bro.

Bro I guess you read Ryder's book backwards to come to your own interpretation of his work.
No where in his book did he advocate for an Ife origin for the Benin kingship, rather he believed we should look elsewhere for the origin of Benin Kingship because it was unreasonable to believe an already established society will look to Ife (an unknown place, great empires and kingdoms are known) for Kingship.

An the bolded above simply means after all study and research, there is absolutely no relationship/similarities between the Benin kingship and Yoruba kingship. How then can you claim an Ife origin for Benin kingship?

You can continue reading Ryder's work backwards.

scholes0:
Don't kid yourself here, it is a HUGE issue!
So it absolutely doesn't make sense to you that the Ujama could invite a non royal Edo 'stranger' to rule in Benin, but it makes perfect sense to you that the descendants of that same prestigious lineage that has supposedly existed for hundreds of years would suddenly Jettison the title of their reverred ancestors, one which they have always used in favour of a STRANGE title that has no meaning in their language.

Even the greeting of the entire pedigree of new rulers had to change from the previous Laiso/Delaiso to La'Ooni and later on, La-m'Ogun.

If only you were honest with yourself, you would know that the only force powerful enough to achieve this is that of DYNASTIC CHANGE to something different… i.e, To the current “House of Oranmiyan”

Your assumption of an invading force from Ife conquering Benin to impose a ruler would have been worth considering if indeed Ife was an Empire or powerful Kingdom. Tales and accounts of powerful Kingdoms and empire survives time but there is nothing about ife. Have you read any accounts/documents describing Ife as an empire or powerful Kingdom? Ife stories begins with Benin and revolves only around Benin.
My point is Ife was never an empire or a powerful Kingdom, it was almost non existence or a small hamlet with no significance and would not have been able to come to Igodomigodo or even fight Igodomigodo that was already a civilized and established society.

Ekaladeran's (known as Oduduwa) arrival at Ife is where ife's story begins and relationship with Igodomigodo..

UGBE634:
Na me go lecture am, the Oba is FOREIGN I have thrown a challenge to him, I am still waiting for him

What challenge did you throw? I don't want to waste my time with you since your mind is made up.

scholes0:
Ife and Ughoton are in two completely opposite directions. Ughoton is due southwards directly facing the creeks.

Ife is due westwards into the thick West African jungle.

For example, after crown prince Iginuwa sone of Oba Oluwa who was supposed to rule was upstaged and an uncle (Uncle Ojoluwa) ruled in his stead, he went towards the creeks and settled amongst a Yoruboid people (The Itsekiri) whom he met there. He didn't for example, suddenly leave there and turn westwards. If Ekaladerhan would end up anywhere else outside Ughoton, common sense only demands that it would have been down in the creeks a boat stop away from Ughoton or refuge amongst the Urhobos immediately south who also have various traditions of fleeing Benin which they call 'Aka' at different times in history, not in faaar away Ife hundreds of Kilometers to the Northwest . How does a person end up in Ife from Ughoton in that age? Does the story even make sense to you? HIAN!

So you really think this your post makes sense? Why do you think it was impossible for him to go up west to ife? Few 100 kilometers is not far, Europeans traveled thousands of miles to Africa and around the world. Yorubas say Oduduwa traveled thousands of kilometers from middle east to ife.
Ekaladeran journeying to Ife is not an impossible trip.

UGBE634:
Bro Ogies are not dukes, they are kings of Their territories. His influence on the other communities were soft, it can be be likened to the sort of influence the Okaigiesan of Esanland has over other Esan communities. The other Enogies were independent

The Oba seems a foreign stool

The thing is that many of these Enogie stool were not appointed by the Oba and some of them had existed in Benin before the Emergence of Obas in Benin
E.g the Okaevbo of Urhonigbe
The Enogie of Egor
Ogie-amien of Utantan
etc

Bro the Enogie are dukes. their origin wether during the era of Ogisos or Obas was by appointment to oversee certain districts. No Enogie has ever been independent of Ogiso or Oba, they are always under the absolute ruler, the Ogisos of Igodomigodo and then the Obas of Benin.

Also you can keep deceiving yourself that the Oba is a foreign stool..

UGBE634:
That is what should give you a cause for concern that we were republican people like our Other Edo neighbors until this seemingly stranger came around and united us more so with an Oba title(engaging in wars of conquest with other Edo communities around to subdue them. The Ogiso of Igodomigodo was not an encompassing ruler, Even the present Ogiegor to it was independent

The Okaevbo of Urhonigbe is the Ogie of Urhonigbe. An Okaevbo means someone in charge of a people, he is also the Enogie, he is the king of the place

The same with the Iyase of Udo, he is the Ogie of the Place, they are kings of their territories easily put.

You are really misinformed on Igodomigodo ways of governance. If you go far before the era of Obas. where will you find more than one person bearing Ogiso title same time? All territories making up Igodomigodo was under one encompassing ruler, an Ogiso.. Other smaller rulers in charge of different territories weren't called Ogiso. Egor and Ogiegor were under Igodomigodo. The Edos have been long civilized and structure their way of life long before the yorubas came into existence.
A Governor is in charge of a state and a President in charge of the whole country. You cannot call a governor a president. Same thing applies to Iyase, Okaevbo, Enogies.. They are not kings but dukes in charge of their territories. The Oba of Benin is the only King for all Bini people and He can remove them from that position if they run afoul against the Palace.

UGBE634:
Or are the Okun yoruba people of the Niger Benue confluence area the answer?


stop repeating this stance, just because the
Ogie of Urhonigbe uses Okaevbo does not mean his Original tribal title for king is not Ogie. it's not what should come out of your mouth as a rebuttal.

Or because the Ogie of Udo has the Iyase as his title does not mean that the title Ogie is not his tribal title for king

There is nothing like Ogie of Urhonigbe or Ogie of Udo, and these places their original tribal name/title for king is Oba but their rulers are not kings. Okaevbo is not a king, Iyase is not a king, enogies are not kings. There is only one King (Oba) for all of Bini people and he sitting at the capital. All other district rulers like Okaevbo, Iyase, enogies are all under the King (Oba).

UGBE634:
how do we now explain the Oba title and the strange gods? Can we settle for the fact that the Oba must have been an "Ekue"

What strange gods are you referring to?
Olokun worship originated in Ughotun, Edo isango worship is different from yoruba sango.
Edo fought and conquered and ruled many parts of Yoruba lands for over 700 years, why didn't you think that was how these gods and Oba title was introduced to them? have you read anywhere that yoruba conquered Edo?

UGBE634:
Nazee this seem to be the closest way to the truth, maybe we have to really be serious with this search and get our brothers in those countries of portugal, dutch and others to interprete those early Bini works for us.

The dutch historian A.F.C Ryder points out in his work that… "next to nothing is known about the Yoruba people themselves at this early
date, and the assertion that Benin sent for an alien (yoruba) ruler instead of accepting one of their numbers was inherently implausible”

If nothing is know about Ife in the early year it is because it wasn't an empire, a strong kingdom or was not an organized society. how can they then launch an attack on an already established society or be asked to produce a ruler for a society that was more civilized and established than them?