₦airaland Forum

coogar: how's henry supposed to be the biggest in a team that had vieira, petit, pires, trezeguet, barthez, etc. you talk a lot of shyte sometimes. henry was no bigger than trez or even lizarazu.

How many French player aside Zidane has Henrys club record going into the World cup

Back to back PFA teams and Highest goal scorer in the EPL, French player of the yr 2000.

coogar: so henry was the only reason france didn't play well? what about trezeguet, cisse, vieira & the others?..

Henry was supposed to be the biggest player after Zidane and given how he roughshod over everyone in EPL the stage was set for him and he flopped as usual with the NT

France without Zidane is pants

Henry couldnt bring his Arsenal form in

Probably thats why he wasnt reckoned with in the awards

Katsumoto: And the number of Germans in Germany was declining as the number of Turks was increasing?

I have provided you stats that states that less Turks became Naturalised Germans. That can be explained by the reduced number of people migrating to Germany in recent years. Or are you unaware that the Turkish economy is one of the strongest in Europe in the last 10 years?

Less people became naturalised citizens in 2010 than in 1996 but that would not kill the ones already in Germany nor strip them of their citizenship?

If Turkish economy is one of the top 10, where does german economy now stand in Europe

Katsumoto: No, but it demonstrates that there was a higher number eligible to play for Germany in 1996 and smashes your argument that an increased number were eligible afterwards.

Prove that there were more Turks eligible to play for Germany in 1996 compared to 2010

Thats stastically impossible unless there was a mass emigration of Turks from germany

2010 figure In reference to 1996 would be

People in 1996 + Numbers born between 1996 and 2010 + Numbers that immigrated between 1996 and 2010- Minus number that died - Number than left Germany

Unless there was an epidemic that killed people in that yr or a mass emigration its impossible given the more relaxed EU immigration laws of recent yrs and human natural tendency to migrate towards prosperity

Katsumoto: Do you know what cumulative means? If it were cumulative, why would the number in the later years be lower than previous years?

If there were 46k in 1996, cumulative means that 2009 would have been higher than 1996. It wouldn't be 24,000.

Would you expect those who were born in Germany like Ozil, Gundogan to be part of this stats also?

The number you presented were those Total number of people of Turkish origin present in Germany in that year or number of those naturalised in that particular year

Katsumoto:

In 1996, approximately 46,000 turks naturalised in Germany. The figure was 31,000 in 1995. In 2009, the number was 24,000.

Why is it that when the figure was higher, no turks played for Germany?

I have told you that I will use facts to decimate you.

Katsumoto you just embarassed yourself here.

Dont you know this numbers are progressively cumulative? Or would you expect those in 1990 to be stripped of their citizenship by 2013?

Example : When were there more Turkish_german in the Population stats below

Year--Number naturalised
1985- 10,000
1986- 8,000
1987- 22,000
1988- 15,000
1989- 20,000
1990- 1,000

Katsumoto: That is a nonsensical position. How French did Desailly or Vieira feel before representing France?

First generation immigrants have gone on to play for their adopted countries within a few years of arriving.

Answer my question - could any of the two German born players who represented Turkey in 1996 have displayed the ethnic born germans in the 1996 winning squad?

France had a long history with Africans given their colonial ties and Blacks have always been in France since then in large numbers. Germany barely had any of these

So do you expect Germany to come hunt for Players in Africa

What was the percentage of people with foreign heritage in France as at 1995 compared to Germany

How many blacks or Turks qualified for German citizenship in 1990

Katsumoto: A man that got to Germany in 1960 didn't start having kids in 1990. There were turks born in Germany who played for Turkey the last time Germany won a trophy. Were either of them better than the ethnic germans playing in the same position as them?

The more the population of Turks increase the more they would be represented in the national team

if there are 500,000 German born Turks in 1990 over the age of 20 and now 10million German born Turks in 2013 over the age of 20

You cant expect this not to reflect in the National team

Katsumoto: A man that got to Germany in 1960 didn't start having kids in 1990. There were turks born in Germany who played for Turkey the last time Germany won a trophy. Were either of them better than the ethnic germans playing in the same position as them?

refer to the below.

The first set of Migrants probably saw themselves as Turkish and didnt even qualify for German citizenship, but as they go to 2nd and 3rd generation how would they see themselves

E.g Coogar went as a teenager to UK to work, he probably saw himself as a Nigerian. His kids might still have some attachment to Nigeria because of their dad but do you still expect his 3rd generation to see themselves as Nigerians based on some folktakes that my fathers fathers father was from Nigeria?

Its like asking why Bill Clinton sees himself as American instead of Irish

Katsumoto: Of course they can be but they aren't being replaced because they are better.

Their skills are comparable

Ozil might be better than Gotze currently

But Boateng can be replaced by Hummels Dortmund and Mertersacker, Just like Bender a Dortmund player can replace Khedira

Choosing between them is a toss up for whoever the coach prefers because they have similar skill level

Katsumoto: You chaps try to use funny comments and snide remarks to debate.

Were there no mixed german kids born in german to german mothers before? You make it seem like the foreigners representing Germany today are the first set of mixed kids born in Germany.

When did this mixing start to happen?

Turks got to Germany in the 60's that means the first set of Turks were not even german citizens. SO how do you expect them to play for Germany

It wasnt like Gerany had strong colonial ties to Africa like France and England

Katsumoto: Anyway I am done with this debate.

A team that has always been completely ethnic german is no longer completely ethnic german. This does mean something whether you are willing to agree to it or not.

It simply meant the composition of the general population has changed simple. And the team is selected from the general population

Katsumoto: In the last game, Mertsesaker played with Boateng

Kroos played with Ozil. Khedira played and the replacements didn't play. I want you to list players that would bench them. The fact that they are playing regularly means that there are no ethnic germans better than those chaps.

Boateng can be replaced by Hummels and mertersacker anytime

Ozil can be replaced by Kroos or Gotze

Khedira can be replaced by any of the Benders

Katsumoto: Were there no foreign players born in Germany with German mothers in 1990, 1996, 1980?

Germany is not France that has always relied on foreign players to win. The German team has been overwhelmingly ethnic German until about a few years ago.

And how many foreign born players with german mothers were there in 1990 compared to 2010?

How many Nigerians were in Uk in 1980 compared to 2013.

Not only the German team, German citizenship was overwhelmingly ethnic German until a few decades ago and the National team is a representation of the ethnic nature of Germans nowadays

Go to any German City nowadays and see the ethnic and color composition of the place

A German lady posted the below pictures on NL as a carnival from germany recently

Would you have had this type of mix in 1990?

[img]http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/287148_karneval_der_kulturen-7_jpg9b78e731d6e1fd890067333881958ba7[/img]

Katsumoto: You mentioned players that would have played if Ozil, Khedira, and Boateng weren't playing for Germany.

If Emenike doesn't play for Nigeria, someone else would play.

You asked for players who could displace them and I gave you

All those players I gave you are either playing at Bayern, Arsenal Schalke or Dortmund and have the skills to displace those players easily

Maybe I dont understand you, what do you want me to give you?

A-40:
A player is born in Germany his mother is German yet he is a foreigner? Why would people just be arguing for argument sake

Abi o. So one Mullato boy comes to Nigeria he probably cant speak English and he says my Grandfather is from Nigeria. He left in 1964

That means he is more Nigerian than German

Katsumoto: Lets conduct an exercise. Identify the ethnic German players who will displace Ozil, Khedira, Boateng? Identify the ethnic germans who would have displayed Klose.

Then Identify the Turks who would have displaced the German players in any of the German championship winning sides. Please

I would give you two each

Ozil = Gotze, Kroos

Khedira= Sven or Lars bender

Boateng = Howedes, Mertersacker,

A german 11 without none of the mixed guys

Neuer- Lahm-Mertersacker-Hummels-Schlmelzer- Bender- Schweinsteiger- Muller-Kroos- Reus- Gotze

Katsumoto: Were they not there when Germany won the world cups in 1974 and 1990 and the European cups in 72, 80, and 96. Did they tell you that Turks only started migrating to Germany?

^^ Katz so whats the importance of this post that Turks have been migrating to Germany since 1960?

The first set of Migrants probably saw themselves as Turkish and didnt even qualify for german citizenship, but as they go to 2nd and 3rd generation how would they see themselves

E.g Coogar went as a teenager to UK, he probably saw himself as a Nigerian. His kids might still have some attachment to Nigeria because of their dad but do you still expect his 3rd generation to see themselves as Nigerians based on some folktakes that my fathers fathers father was from Nigeria?

Its like asking why Bill Clinton sees himself as American instead of Irish

Katsumoto: The same applies to Italy - Balotelli is playing because the Italians don't have strikers. I mean, Gilardino is in the Italian squad.

America probably also have a Kenyan president because they dont have any capable white Caucasian to do the job

Katsumoto: You have stated that the English team is shiite - I have agreed. I am only telling you that the German team which is stronger has non-ethnic germans in it. If the German team had great ethnic german players, the non-ethnic germans would not have made the team. The german team has historically been made up of german players. Why do the Germans have foreigners in their team today? I don't need to keep breaking it down for you. How many non-ethnic players were in the teams in 90 and 96? or 74? or 86?

And what exactly is wrong with having non ethnic German in it?

A player born in Germany has lived all his life in Germany went to all his school In Germany would suddenly turn 22 and they would tell him to go play for Zambia because his dad he probably didnt know claims to be from Zambia

Every team in the world was historically ethnic, Holland, France Italy USA etc but to demand the same criteria nowadays is ridiculous

How many non ethnic Dutch were in their team of 1974 or How many non ethnic French were in their team of 1954

How many half castes played for Nigeria in 1980?

Germany does not have foreigners in their team they have players born to either German parent or born in Germany and qualify for German citizenship

Ozil, Gundogan probably dont speak Turkish probably have never been to Turkey before only knew they were Turk because they were told so

Katsumoto: I am not stating that people don't represent other nations. I am stating that Germany has been strengthened by foreign players. How many non-germans were in the last german team that won a tournament?

So you make a rule specifically for Germans that any other nation dont have to follow? How ingenious

So I expect Katsumoto to be 6ft 5 before he can be called a Nigerian and no other person has to follow those rules.

Oya now that you have been owned here, Go to Politics and take your frustration out of Dede1.

The Last English team that won a tournament How many Black did they have? Oh I forgot the rule is specifically for Germans

A-40:
Lemme get this straight! So my father has to be from the country for me to legitimately be a citizen or an "ethnic" my mother doesn't count! Hehehehe

Katsumoto always do your research before you begin arguments! I'm sure when he started he didn't even know most of these players were born in Germany and either of their parents were German as well

It was the same diatribe the English press went into last world cup forgetting that all blacks in UK have the same right as Turks or Poles born in Germany have

They even forgot Jaglieka was a Polish name born to a Polish father

So katsumoto.

I am giving you another opportunity to redeem yourself

Now make your argument and tell us why Patriarchy MUST be used to determine citizenship. Especially when some countries dont insist on it

Which country has Patriarchy rules for you to be a citizen? In non football Is Serge Ibaka not representing Spain Basketball or didnt Gloria Alozie run for Spain

Katsumoto: You just love roundabout arguments.

You know the point I am making, yet you are being deliberately disingenuous. Ozil, Khedira, Gomez, Gundogan, Podolski are all non-Germans as far as patriarchy is concerned

Who makes Patrirchy the rule? katsumoto? When a barack Obama who doesnt have Patrichy is the president of USA

You cant make rules for countries who dont insist on patriarchy rules in their laws

Katsumoto: Nigerian - Patriarchy makes Agboola and Osaze Nigerians.

Ghana - Patriarchy makes the Boateng brothers Ghanian.

For spain - you mentioned one player- contrast that with Germany that has a core of their team being non-German.

Thats in Nigeria, In Germany any of your parent can make you a citizen same with the whole world. Barack Obama is American yet has a Kenyan father

Spain didnt you see Di stefano, Ferenc Puskas add that to José Santamaría who played for Uruguay NT and Spain and Eulogio Martinez who played for Paraguay National Team and also Spain

Katsumoto: I have a point - Germany has players with non-German names. Germany is no different to France and Holland.

In most nations, nationality or ethnic grouping is established through patriarchy.

How many Spanish players have non-Spanish names?

You keep digging yourself into pits.

is it by names? Are Nigerians not naming their kids John Smith?

Nigeria have a president who doesnt have Nigerian names so what?

US has a president who doesnt have American names

Katsumoto: What about Spain, Nigeria, Ghana, Colombia, most Latin American and African sides?

There are many nations that do not use foreign players.

And stop assuming that because you are a regular in the sports section, you automatically have a better grasp of football.

Spain - Go find out about Marcos Senna who was born in Sao Paolo and didnt get to Spain until 2002 yet played for the Spanish NT

Also find out about Ferenc Puskas who played for Hungary and for Spain also include in your search Alfredo Di Stefano

Nigeria- What makes Osaze, Rueben Agboola etc Nigerians and doesnt make Boateng German?

Ghana what makes Kevin prince Boateng Ghanaian and doesnt make his brother Jerome German

We are waiting answers

Katsumoto: I have made my point.

England is not a strong nation.

Germany which is a stronger nation relies on foreigners. End of discussion

katsumoto, I already told you dont come into football arguments

You gave a criteria for Germany that cant be replicated by any other European nation

Mention which other Nation doesnt have non ethnic in their national team

Is it England, France, Holland, Italy who

Whats your purpose of even bringing that point to start with. In football thats an own goal

Katsumoto: Is it by place of birth? If that's you argument, its ok. But everyone knows they are not ethnic Germans.

So what makes Welbeck Defoe, Sterling etc English

We are listening