₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
This is irrelevant. All you have to do is prove it to your fellow Christians. You don't have to worry about me at all.

Yes, thanks for pointing that out...we can take dem to d scriptures to show them, but I wonder why u got involved at first and now backing out

Empiree:
honestly, you sound very silly now. There is nothing to argue here. This is very simple. If you believe there is a Quran missing verses or chapters somewhere different from what we have both in arabic and english translation, please bring it forward. If you can't then you need to shut up.

But i can provide you up to at least 30 different Bibles with missing chapters, verses, contradictions, blasphemies etc. Please dont ask me silly questions about Quran if you can not present evidence. Thank you

Well like I said, let's not delve into missing quranic chapters and verse cos ur favourite answer now will be, "isnad of d hadith is weak" or "the hadith isn't sahih"....we know d routine muslim favourite punchlines!!!

Now we are told that Bibles now have missing chapters, verses, contradictions, blasphemies etc!!! I wonder why u shld care since u dnt see any truth in it (just state that and its enuf, just as u stated dat am a polytheist no matter wat explanation I give, or ddnt dat solve the Trinity issue for u?)

I wonder why u muslims don't see ur absurdity!!! Let me state it in simple terms below
(Well, the Quran may have versions and I don't know which one the prophet read, but I can do the same with the Bible u know, and then dat solves the issue for me...just keep quiet u infidel Christian)........
does dat make any sense to u? Why delve into ur ignorance of the Bible and not deal with ur "expertise" on the religion of allah
I guess u sound much more silly than I ever wud...

Empiree:
Are you blind...?you didnt see it in my post?. Here it's again in Arabic



And what concern me with your nonsense doctrine. You the one that believe and defended it against op. So take me out of it.

Ofcos I saw it in ur post, but dat ddnt stop u quoting the translation which had the word "Trinity" and without explaining to us (which u tink are naïve) that the original word is "three"...u make me laff

Now u suddenly want out of it It doesn't concern u...I wondered why u got to comment on it at first!!!

I wudnt pass insults on u...but it seems allah's command to "curse the infidels" is just ur favourite now!!! Enjoy ur weekend doing that

Empiree:
Further Refutations

Difference Between Ahrûf & Qirâ'ât

It is important to realize the difference between ahruf and Qirâ'ât. Before going into that it is interesting to know why the seven ahruf were brought down to one during Uthmân's(R) time.

The Qur'an continued to be read according to the seven ahruf until midway through Caliph 'Uthman's rule when some confusion arose in the outlying provinces concerning the Qur'an's recitation. Some Arab tribes had began to boast about the superiority of their ahruf and a rivalry began to develop. At the same time, some new Muslims also began mixing the various forms of recitation out of ignorance. Caliph 'Uthman decided to make official copies of the Qur'an according to the dialect of the Quraysh and send them along with the Qur'anic reciters to the major centres of Islam. This decision was approved by Sahaabah and all unofficial copies of the Qur'an were destroyed. Following the distribution of the official copies, all the other ahruf were dropped and the Qur'an began to be read in only one harf. Thus, the Qur'an which is available through out the world today is written and recited only according to the harf of Quraysh.

Now a few words on Qirâ'ât:

A Qirâ'ât is for the most part a method of pronunciation used in the recitations of the Qur'an. These methods are different from the seven forms or modes (ahruf) in which the Qur'an was revealed. The seven modes were reduced to one, that of the Quraysh, during the era of Caliph 'Uthman, and all of the methods of recitation are based on this mode. The various methods have all been traced back to the Prophet(P) through a number of Sahaabah who were most noted for their Qur'anic recitations. That is, these Sahaabah recited the Qur'an to the Prophet(P) or in his presence and received his approval. Among them were the following: Ubayy Ibn K'ab, 'Alee Ibn Abi Taalib, Zayd Ibn Thaabit, 'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, Abu ad-Dardaa and Abu Musaa al-Ash'aree. Many of the other Sahaabah learned from these masters. For example, Ibn 'Abbaas, the master commentator of the Qur'an among the Sahaabah, learned from both Ubayy and Zayd.

I will stop here now. Is there anything in this writing to suggest there versions of Quran?. The answer is No. But if you think there versions of Quran in Arabic, kindly bring it forward. But if you can't find or bring it forward, then shut up....FOREVER

yOU aRE dEfEAteD oN tHIs

Refer to my question above and stop following ur mentors in colourful empty font designs!!! face the challenge and don't create diversion!!!
"Defeated" -- I doubt u know wat d word means!

Empiree:
This Is My Refutation To Your Allegations:

It has become a standard method of deception by Christian missionaries like Jochen Katz to superficially project issues that have been exhaustively addressed by both Muslims and Orientialsts, as we will see soon, inshallah. These missionaries are well aware of the difference between a transmission and a text (to be discussed in detail below). Yet, they intentionally replace one with the other in order to give the false impression to lay readers that the Qur'an exists in different texts. Thus, in order to address the questions of Hafs and Warsh, we will first offer a short introduction to the key concepts involved herein and then proceed to the heart of the matter, inshallah.

Revelation Of The Qur'an In Seven Ahrûf

It is a well-known fact that there are seven different ahrûf in which the Qur'an was revealed. In the Islamic tradition, this basis can be traced back to a number of hadîths concerning the revelation of the Qur'an in seven ahrûf (singular harf). Some of the examples of these hadîths are as follows:

From Abû Hurairah:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down in seven ahruf. Disputation concerning the Qur'an is unbelief" - he said this three times - "and you should put into practice what you know of it, and leave what you do not know of it to someone who does."

From Abû Hurairah:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "An All-knowing, Wise, Forgiving, Merciful sent down the Qur'an in seven ahruf."

From cAbdullâh Ibn Mascud:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down in seven ahruf. Each of these ahruf has an outward aspect (zahr) and an inward aspect (batn); each of the ahruf has a border, and each border has a lookout."

The meaning of this hadîth is explained as:

As for the Prophet's(P) words concerning the Qur'an, each of the ahruf has a border, it means that each of the seven aspects has a border which God has marked off and which no one may overstep. And as for his words Each of the ahruf has an outward aspect (zahr) and an inward aspect (batn), its outward aspect is the ostensive meaning of the recitation, and its inward aspect is its interpretation, which is concealed. And by his words each border ...... has a lookout he means that for each of the borders which God marked off in the Qur'an - of the lawful and unlawful, and its other legal injunctions - there is a measure of God's reward and punishment which surveys it in the Hereafter, and inspects it ...... at the Resurrection ......


And in another hadîth cAbdullâh Ibn Mascud said:

The Messenger of God(P) said: "The first Book came down from one gate according to one harf, but the Qur'an came down from seven gates according to seven ahruf: prohibiting and commanding, lawful and unlawful, clear and ambiguous, and parables. So, allow what it makes lawful, proscribe what it makes unlawful, do what it commands you to do, forbid what it prohibits, be warned by its parables, act on its clear passages, trust in its ambiguous passages." And they said: "We believe in it; it is all from our Lord."


And Abû Qilaba narrated:

It has reached me that the Prophet(P) said: "The Qur'an was sent down according to seven ahruf: command and prohibition, encouragement of good and discouragement of evil, dialectic, narrative, and parable."

These above hadîths serve as evidence that the Qur'an was revealed in seven ahruf. The defination of the term ahruf has been the subject of much scholarly discussion and is included in the general works of the Qur'an. The forms matched the dialects of following seven tribes: Quraysh, Hudhayl, Thaqîf, Hawâzin, Kinânah, Tamîm and Yemen. The revelation of the Qur'an in seven different ahruf made its recitation and memorization much easier for the various tribes. At the same time the Qur'an challenged them to produce a surah like it in their own dialect so that they would not complain about the incomprehensibility.

The verses of the Qur'an dealing with the challenge are given below (Hilali and Muhsin Khan's Translation):

Say: "If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another." [Qur'an 17:88]

And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful. [Qur'an 2:23]

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation) which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) - wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists).

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it?" Say: "Bring then a surah (chapter) like unto it, and call upon whomsoever you can, besides Allah, if you are truthful!" [Qur'an 10:37-38]

Or they say, "He (Prophet Muhammad(P)) forged it (the Qur'an)." Say: "Bring you then ten forged surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth!" [Qur'an 11:13]

Or do they say: "He (Muhammad(P)) has forged it (this Qur'an)?" Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful. [Qur'an 52:33-34]

For example, the phrase 'alayhim (on them) was read by some 'alayhumoo and the word siraat (path, bridge) was read as ziraat and mu'min (believer) as moomin.

I wonder wen dis copy and paste article became urs to use in refutation!!! don't even let me go thro' the nonsense, as I hv read it a couple of times before now, the article ddnt even consider d challenge and even provoked further refutation of the rubbish written here.
Am sorry for your inability to read and comprehend, my question was "which version of the quran did muhammed read"...and not "what's the difference between the version of the qurans"...since u claim muhammed read d quran!!!
and don't let us get into the missing chapters, verses eaten by goats and those lost wen the islamic warriors who recited the died in war...
Please answer the Question!!!

Empiree:
These are other translations (Qur'an 4:171):

"O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector." Shakir


"O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs." Khan


"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." Sahih International

The Arabic word:[size=15pt]ثَلَـٰثَةٌ[/size] which means Three (3). So Qur'an is telling you to desist from saying 3 i:e in reference to you who say "three people bear witness" i:e God, Holy spirit, Jesus joined and became One. That's polytheism.

And no, Qur'an doesn't say we should ask you if 'we' are confused. We are not confused....you are

Now dis shows how dubious and desperate d quran translators are, now that u hv agreed that allah never mentioned d "Trinity"...can we den say that "allah" never touched on the topic Or u stil wanna claim allah did? Show us this from the quran if so...
I really laff at ur eisegesis and how u shout "Paganism" even wen we have told u to stop misrepresenting the Christian faith...why do muslims set up "strawman argument"?...haven't I told u severally to stop saying we worship "3 gods"...? If u disagree abt ur ignorance on the "Trinity"...den define it according to ur undastnding here and let's see!!!

Empiree:
So which bible trinitarians like ifeann and dejilg read?....that means you have different bibles, right?

oh wait ! you are "son of God" guy? I see.


But dejilg is proving trinity from bible. Look up there for his argument....are you not reading same book?

Again, I can see dat u do not relent on claiming to know the Bible, but its ur ignorance that u'd expose, even as it concerns the quran!!! now let's have fun showing how d muslim IQ is so bad!!!

Empiree:
You still not making any sense. You havent said anything. I dont worry myself going to your link cuz I already gone through your nonsense for yrs. Whether you like it or not. Whether you agree or not, you are polytheist. Hear what Quran says about this:


O People of the Book!(i:e Christians) Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (Qur'an 4:171)

When will u ever make sense do u realize that YHWH never claimed to reveal the quran but the quranic deity (allah) claimed to have revealed d Bible (hence saying according to Islam, d Bible is a divine revelation) and also asks muslims to ask "people of the book" when they are confused...so its d quran dat is tryna equate "YHWH as allah".

now let's move on to the error of wat u jst quoted from d quran, the translation u used is dubious, did allah mention d word "Trinity" in the Quran as far as I can tell, the word translated as Trinity is actually "three"...so why did d translator used the word "Trinity"? Isn't this a stupidity? Puttin words in "allah's mouth"?...and dis verse also shows d ignorance of the quranic deity (allah).... We Christians shld "desist from say three"....if we may ask, "three what?"...isn't this d ignorance of muhammed being attributed to allah? Or is allah talking to other groups aside from Christians?

Stop dragging allah in the mud by quoting "its" ignorance

[quote author=CAPTIVATOR post=31214637][/quote]and he just kept saying "Person = Being" ...I guess it all goes back to my earliest response!!!
Interact with wat Trinitarians believe, and stop attacking strawman!!! how pathetic! Taqiyya at best!!!

Trinitarians read up

http://badmanna./2014/03/24/the-intellectual-triunity-of-god-by-joel-parkinson/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=4620&relatedposts_position=2

as the topic implies, that is for the intellect!!!

Empiree:
Dont worry urself about inheritance law. No one complains to you.

"AND" "means" + (plus) i:e plus another god or in addition to.....

"Or" is substituting one god for another.

Yep!!! That proves that u failed "Logic" in mathematics, my assertion is now brought out by u...no wonder, Trinitarianism just dazzled U (like God's Glory would)....
and we are also told that, "forget allah's mathematical failure, we don't care (probably cos he failed mathematics too) --- best defence so far is "Shut Up"

CAPTIVATOR:
ONE God ? NO, its 3 .... Should I prove it

God number 1 = the Father

God number 2 = the Son, Jesus

God number 3 = holyspirit.

INFACT they are all different persons, and each is God! 3




I Love it when people quote that passage in full

Who is called the ONE GOD ? THE FATHER

Does it tell us why he is called the ONE GOD ? YES , " FROM WHOM all things are, and we for him"

Who is called the One Lord ? Jesus
WHy is Jesus called the One Lord ? " through whom all things are, and we through him " .

IS JESUS THE FATHER ? NO! NO!



THE Firstborn of CREATION! CREATION! cannot be the source, he is the "beginning"

Scriptural Definition Of Firstborn ....... " The BEGINNING OF pro creativ power" . Gen 49:2

So beginning is the right translation



Of course,

Jesus refer to the FATHER as "the ONLY TRUE GOD" JOH 17:3

Hmmmm _ " THE ONLY .. GOD " JOH 17:3



" FOR US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER" 1 Cor 8:6



- That verse says the Father annoints Jesus!

- That Verse says the Father is the God of Jesus .

- 1) Didnt the Father also call humans"GODS"?

2) DIDNT the Father also inspire scripture writers to call Satan " GOD" ? ( or av u forgotten that the original greek doesnt separate "G" and "g" )

THE FATHER Remains " THE ONLY ... GOD" Joh 17:3

" THE ONLY .. GOD" Joh 17:3

" THE ... TRUE GOD" Joh 17:3! WOW

U keep repeating this pale story, I guess any person reading through this thread will find answers to dis...the Persons of God share the ONE BEING of God...if u can't interact with wat Trinitarians teach, den atleast stay silent and don't attribute to them wat they don't believe...
I will repeat it, Trinitarians show that God's nature is very different from the human nature of (1 being, 1 person)....but I guess all dis "copy and paste" dude wud just limit their own god(s)..."God must be 1 being, 1 person --- sounds more like a human to me"

Empiree:
I'd thought you would return here to proof me wrong but unfortunately, I am highly disappointed by you.So if you have no sensible thing to say, kindly.....SHUT UP

Well I guess all u can do now is "rain insults"...I don't blame u wen dis is exactly wt allah commands u to do...
I wudnt expect anything to make sense to a person that thinks dat garbage called "quran" is a divine work!!! Its just a shame! Imagine a god that can't pass a mathematics class even as low as that of a primary 4 (fair enough)

Empiree:
Ride on bro...they are polytheists. They want us to believe 1+1+1=1. rilwayne001 abeg come to this one. Ineresting. I de gbadun am

muslims are at it again, well I don't blame u guys, why won't d followers of a god (allah) who failed terribly at d mathematics of sharing inheritance (quranic inheritance law), just suck at mathematics?!!! of all d mathematical possibilities that wud make "a muslim look sensible in dealing with the Trinity mathematically" they had to pick "sum, + or the "or" --- simple logic class wud show how ludicrous that is....wat abt
1 x 1 x 1 = 1.... Which wud even state the Trinity even well...."The Father is God, The Son is God and the HolySpirit is God, yet there is for us ONE GOD" ... or don't u know wat "AND" means in mathematics and that "OR is +" Shame on dis followers of allah, like their god like d muslims

Empiree:
Olodo! so they are your defense attorney now?. The bogus site that gets hammered all the time. Sorry dear. God is One in the Qur'an. And dont forget to defend your 3-headed gods here
https://www.nairaland.com/2164402/non-muslims-only-jesus-mohammed/2#31127115 Actually same thing op is dealing it with you here and you havent said anything reasonable to counter op

Suddenly am "Olodo" just becos I did wat u have done by quoting sites that debunk ur theory The sites u quoted are not ur "attorney"? Why is it dat muslims dnt reason like a normal human being wud U quoted a site and I did d same, and suddenly am d one making the site and attorney?? and can u show me how the site got hammered Can u post articles that got dem hammered and let's compare their responses to that of ur so called "hammers" and I don't worship a "3 headed gods", maybe u shld be d one to tell allah to atleast change one of "its" 2 left hands to a right hand!!! muhammed created allah to satisfy his lust and rage

Empiree:
Yes, you are wrong bcuz if you think WE means plural, it means you believe in multiple gods. That's polytheism=pagan Understand?

so now u just asked him to gullibly believe that "we" doesnt mean plural wen allah uses it?

Empiree:
Listen, his is a waste of my time. I cant type a whole lot. You think i dont know what you talking about?. When I get on my regular pc i can respond properly. But fact remains, bring buy or get 2 Qurans from 2 different locations. Make sure they are in arabic. Scan any same verses from each Quran and post them here and let's see. Isnt that bold challenge.If you can't do that then shut up.

Besides, are you trying to evade the op by bringing Quran into this?. Your fellow christian telling you to desist from worshiping 3-headed god or man-god but you use christian missionaries tactics against me instaed. I dont think you know who you dealing with.

3 headed god? i brought the quran into this because u asked if Jesus read the Bible, so am not dodgin...just exposing the muhammed made religion that u attribute to God by tryin to make d quranic allah into YHWH...the fact remains that quran is different for different muslims....stop lying

CAPTIVATOR:
NOTICE the word " identifies" , #smiliiing# .... You use it because NONE of those scripture says " Jesus Is YAHWEH" did they ? NO !

YOU actually tryin to deduce and force another meaning to them .

Wait, didnt you read That YAHWEH/JEHOVAH is strictly a name for the MOST HIGH GOD ALONE .

So, is Jesus the most high ? Hope u know the meaning of MOST HIGH ? Is he ? I know ur false theological concept of Nicea will force u to say he is the most high ! BUT THATS WRONG, you dont agree , okay let me give you a test .

1) If Jesus is the most high, WHY is he always doing the WILL OF ANOTHER PERSON , whereas that person NEVER do the will of Jesus?

2) If Jesus Is Most High, Why Is He Been Sent By Another Person, Whereas He Himself NEVER sent that one ?

3) if Jesus is the most high, WHY DOES HE HAVE A HEAD ABOVE HIM ? 1 COR 11:3

4) If Jesus is the most high, WHY DID HE HAVE A GOD both in heaven and while on earth ?

First of all, u seem to place urself higher than the scriptures, so r u saying the Bible ddnt identify Jesus as YHWH, pls read Hebrews 1 and read d parallels in the old testament and see whom it applies to...

Thank You for using the words "another Person" --- we agree to that, but may I ask, "is ur father more human than you are just becos he has authority over you?". Jesus being sent by the Father doesn't mean He is a lesser deity!

Now Jesus has a head over Him since He had incarnated, that's why Phillipians 2:6-8 says

" who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

This verse shows Jesus is God and "made himself nothing" --- by coming to earth in Human form, hence, if so, did u expect Jesus to be an atheist...

Also studying the Messianic Psalms shows that the Father became the God of the Son at incarnation

Pls again stop parading ur ignorance, Trinity doesn't equate the Persons of Jesus to be that of the Father or the HolySpirit...but they are the ONE BEING of God...hence the humiliation of Christ made Him to have the Father as His Head!!! doesn't make him less deity as u r nt a lesser human to the president of the country!!!

Empiree:
Sorry, Quran is ONE in Arabic. Any translations from original arabic to other languages have versions of the translation same meaning. That's no longer Quran. That's translation. Stop wasting your time. Go to local islamic store and buy a copy of quran inn arabic or get it free. Buy another one online in Arabic and compare them. Simple isn't?

Are u kidding me so u don't knw dat dis versions of quran are transmissions not translations Dude are u a knowledgeable muslim at all So again, let me ask, which of those version did muhammed read And quran isn't ONE in arabic!!! so u r d "sorry one" not me.

Empiree:
Yes.

Which version did muhammed read

Hafs, Warsh, Qalun, Al-Bazzi, al-Duri, Qunbul, al-Qari, al - Suri, Hisham...etc!!!

CAPTIVATOR:
Am happy you agreed that 1john5:7 is heresy

AND NONE of those verses u quoted says God is a three in one , do u forget that satan is also called " GOD" 2 Cor 4:4 (hav u forgotten the whole bible was originally writen wwithout diferentiating " G" from " g"

Jesus Call Humans " GODS" .

~ but there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, THE FATHER ! Confirmed by Jesus in joh 17:3 and fully emphasized in 1 cor 8:6 .

And do u know that Jesus himself is "the beginning of the Creation BY GOD ( THE FATHER)" REV 3:14 .




" FOR US, THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER ......... however not all have this knwledge" 1 COR 8:6,7

How many times do we have to tell u dat we also believe in "One God" Why do u keep being blind to wat we say, why do u set up a strawman?

1Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him...

Are u scared to quote it in full So there is "ONE LORD - Jesus Christ" and it does on to say "by whom are all things and we by him"....so if there is One Lord and that LORD is Jesus Christ, den the Father isn't LORD well let me leave u wit ur eisegesis and ignorance! This text teaches the Deity of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and u just destroyed Islam anyways!

so Jesus is d beginning of God's Creation? So do u know the greek word from which this text is translated? The word for "beginning" is "arche" in greek which could also mean "ruler, origin, beginning or source" --- so do we use d oda alternatives to see wat d text means? a proper reading of the book of Revelations shows dat Jesus is God (assuming u read d Bible like most of u claim)

John 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

so wats dis verse telling us? That there isn't eternal life unless we know Jesus Christ to the detriment of Islam?? and if truly u know wat Trinitarians believe, why wud Jesus' Divinity be tarnished cos he called the Father, the only true God?...well for us all 3 Persons of the Triune God are called are called God and call eachoda God...

Hebrews 1

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

So here the Father calls the Son "God"...so does that make the Father a non deity?

Pls stop showing us ur lack of ignorance...thanks

Empiree:
pls this is not meant for you. Kindly desist. Thanks

I debunk lies wenever I see dem...so I won't "desist"

www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_plurality.htm

Read and see d "royal we" debunked

Empiree:
https://www.nairaland.com/2172133/question-did-jesus-read-bible/1#2172133.47

did muhammed read d quran

Empiree:
Now your case is dismissed with. You dont make any sense. If you can't defend why Jesus is God then forget it.

so now I no longer have to prove "Jesus is God" but prove "why Jesus is God"

U must be d new comedian on d block, can u prove to us "why allah is God"?

Empiree:
"We" is NOT plural. It's a form of majesty, respect etc. "We" in the Quran is royal "We". It's basically a form of adjective. Read these short links for further understanding.
http://www.godallah.com/we_and_he.php
http://www.islam101.com/tauheed/AllahWE.htm

superlies, are we posting sites now? should I post in replies to these?

Empiree:
Man, you not defending anything. You just talking basically. If you cant defend it then....check your creed. And you talk about John, you mean the last of of the Gospel?. So according to you he's the only one that explained "Divinity of Jesus" yet copied his essay from Mathew, Mark anf Luke. Pls take a back sit.

No, muslims have same creed when it comes to Divinity of God. No muslim believe any prophet or messanger is God. Get your fact right.

Now u keep running from facts! so now u have a problem becos "its d last of the Gospels"? and whom said its d only 1 dat teaches abt Jesus being God do u ever reason and actually interact honestly with those dat don't accept ur view? so do u now agree that John teaches that Jesus is God or u'd dismiss like dis "its d last of the Gospels, so its nt authentic"....lolzzz, are u kidding me? Divinity of God --- is dat supposed to make sense Since we ddnt argue abt God's Divinity but God's nature, and u know well dat muslims differ on dt views, so dnt even try lying abt it...i guess u'd hv to alight now ryt?