₦airaland Forum

MzNelly:
Are you saying, without mincing words, that Jesus is God? Wow

What Bible translation is that?

any Bible translation apart from dubious ones e.g Jehovah's witnesses will speak that to u

MzNelly:
Jesus is not God. I thought this Trinity belief is archaic.

a belief can be archaic, it doesn't mean its false!!! And Jesus is God!!! am pretty sure u don't know wat we Trinitarians believe

Reiyvinn:
Time to face this once and for all. All the going-around-circles must stop.

God created heaven and earth and everything in them, right? (Revelation 10:6 cf. Surah Al-A'raf, 7:54)

God resides in heaven, right? (Psalm 115:3 cf. Surah Al-Mulk, 67:16)

Where was God before Heaven and Earth were created?!

and I don't recall the Bible part u quoted as saying "God resides in Heaven"...it says

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; He does all that he pleases.

again what do u understand by "heaven(s)"...the part u even quoted says "heavens"...seems to me that the word "heavens" here and many other places is generic for the space above and around the earth, as described in Genesis...
Genesis 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven

funny what d question asks!!! wats ur definition of heaven and in d creation accounts, the Bible said "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" --- why "heavens and a singular earth"?--- seems to me that u believe God couldn't hv existed without these "heavens"

truly dis thread is ancient in the sense of it being out of the heat of the moment...

its has a nice "topic" too, but the topic is ignorant of the text it addresses!!!

Yahweh and His Lying Angels

to me, the only one lying here is the OP, or let's give him the benefit of doubt, he lacks the understanding of the passage he quotes from...

let's have a quick read from the passage of the Bible he quotes and show how erroneous the topic and the objection is...

2 Chronicles 18:

4 And Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, "Inquire first for the word of the Lord." 5 Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, four hundred men, and said to them, "Shall we go to battle against Ramoth-gilead, or shall I refrain?" And they said, "Go up, for God will give it into the hand of the king." 6 But Jehoshaphat said, "Is there not here another prophet of the Lord of whom we may inquire?" 7 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "There is yet one man by whom we may inquire of the Lord, Micaiah the son of Imlah; but I hate him, for he never prophesies good concerning me, but always evil." And Jehoshaphat said, "Let not the king say so." 8 Then the king of Israel summoned an officer and said, "Bring quickly Micaiah the son of Imlah." 9 Now the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah were sitting on their thrones, arrayed in their robes. And they were sitting at the threshing floor at the entrance of the gate of Samaria, and all the prophets were prophesying before them. 10 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made for himself horns of iron and said, "Thus says the Lord, 'With these you shall push the Syrians until they are destroyed.'" 11 And all the prophets prophesied so and said, "Go up to Ramoth-gilead and triumph. The Lord will give it into the hand of the king."
12 And the messenger who went to summon Micaiah said to him, "Behold, the words of the prophets with one accord are favorable to the king. Let your word be like the word of one of them, and speak favorably." 13 But Micaiah said, "As the Lord lives, what my God says, that I will speak." 14 And when he had come to the king, the king said to him, "Micaiah, shall we go to Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall I refrain?" And he answered, "Go up and triumph; they will be given into your hand." 15 But the king said to him, "How many times shall I make you swear that you speak to me nothing but the truth in the name of the Lord?" 16 And he said, "I saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd. And the Lord said, 'These have no master; let each return to his home in peace.'" 17 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "Did I not tell you that he would not prophesy good concerning me, but evil?" 18 And Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. 19 And the Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another. 20 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the Lord said to him, 'By what means?' 21 And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.' 22 Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The Lord has declared disaster concerning you."
23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near and struck Micaiah on the cheek and said, "Which way did the Spirit of the Lord go from me to speak to you?" 24 And Micaiah said, "Behold, you shall see on that day when you go into an inner chamber to hide yourself." 25 And the king of Israel said, "Seize Micaiah and take him back to Amon the governor of the city and to Joash the king's son, 26 and say, 'Thus says the king, Put this fellow in prison and feed him with meager rations of bread and water until I return in peace.'" 27 And Micaiah said, "If you return in peace, the Lord has not spoken by me." And he said, "Hear, all you peoples!"

its clear from the passage that the lie ddnt even come from "an Angel". so we wonder wea the topic got the idea....for d meaning of the term "malakh" which is translated as Angel in d greek septuagiant of the OT and hence in English, the word means "Messenger"...a careful notice will see that the passage ddnt say its a messenger that came forward to YHWH, but a "spirit" and this spirit isn't described as a "messenger" for YHWH...as others have enlightened the OP on the subject, that even the fallen ones sometimes are summoned to d presence of YHWH...

now when one reads further one will notice that the King Ahab has called all his favourite prophets (which are false prophets by the way) and inquired of them concerning Ramoth-gilead, but all favoured him, and yet he still said, "there is one from whom we can inquire from of the LORD" and that was Micaiah, the prophet. Note that he said he hates him cos he doesn't speak favourably of him...

Again it is worth noting from the passage that, Micaiah even related/narrated this so called "conspiration (as seen by the OP) to the king, which wud be an order from YHWH Himself, so if this is d case, does dis not look like a warning
and note again that YHWH said "I have put a lying spirit on the mouths of your prophets (Ahab's favourite prophets)...

Lastly, I believe the OP can read, maybe he shld tell us what the King did to Micaiah, to show his dissatisfaction, isn't dis whole passage a warning to Ahab from YHWH and yet Ahab went ahead to do what YHWH explicitly commanded him not to do?!

and about Ahab's Prophets which I believe were the prophet of Baal that were killed by Elijah later on...they were false prophets and Ahab had systematically stopped worshipping the God of Isreal (YHWH)...also in the history of the kings of Israel, Ahab was probably the most idolatrous due to his wife's (Jezebel) influence.

I hope the OP can now truly show us why he hates YHWH, instead of showing how he ignorantly reads the Bible only to criticise it. Thank you and God bless!!!

Empiree:
you are very boring

Best reply so far

Empiree:
okay, sounds like your brain can't possibly comprehemd anything here. first, as far as i am concerned, you believe in "trinity". You can twist that all you want. You already defended it earlier. This is what you said to op"

You also said

^confused



Now, watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lwRTki1js0

Here is another clip showing christians not really sure what they believe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDPJmb3gAs

honestly, reading through your thread, you sound confused. You have no idea what you believe. humble yourself and learn. You sound very annoying.

U never cease to amaze me by showing ur intellectual gullibility...did I ever say am "confused" It seems u will infer just about anything to make sure u say "you are defeated"....and wen did I twist the doctrine of Trinity aren't u d one claiming to know it and yet can't define it? Why do u muslims set up false argument and put it in ur opponent's mouth
also, u seem nt to show us where the quran defined d doctrine of the Trinity and condemned it, are u scared of showing us ur allah's ignorance?! The only thing u can do is to call ur opponent names and shout "confused" wen u haven't actually used even 1 percent of ur brain to see what is being presented to u...can u interact sensibly and stop running, repeating ur pale "wetin concern me"? remember no 1 dragged u here at first!!!
wow u just posted Shabir Ally's videos (not new to his intellectual suicide arguments). U may find it compelling but d dude can't and wudnt just face Christians with wat dey believe but will do wat u have been doin all along, creating strawmen argument and den knock it down
well, hope u go back to read up, cos I really want u to "make me leave Christianity for good" as u claimed to hold such magical powers! seems u r better at it dan ur shabir ally cos he hasn't even moved me 1 bit.
so reading thro the thread frustrates u? that wud be becos I ddnt fall for ur strawmen arguments...and yes, i guess i annoyed u with the truth...u want me to learn from a taqqiyist like u?

Empiree:
weiting concern me?....whether you or them believe in Paul, "trinity", "son of god" and all that nonsense....the whole thing Quran against them altogether. You all make no sense. I will teach you your bible instead. I will teach you who Jesus truly is not your wack doctrine

dis is the empty nonsense that the quran claims, whereas d quranic Jesus(Isa) is just an "argument" for muhammed's prophethood and not a "person"

Empiree:
^DOTN GET IT TWISTED. There is nothing like "trinity" in the Qur'an. Qur'an is only saying to you (christians) to desist from saying such thing. Don't some christians say such thing? "meta lokan baba" i"e god-the father, god-the son and god-the holy spirit?. Are you now lying?. Isn't what you defended against op?. are u backing out now?

Ur quran never said this why do u lie Show us "what or who the three of the quran is/are".....and no one says "meta lokan baba"....are u dis ignorant? and am nt defending that against the op....wen did u become disenfranchised from the discussion desperation?!

Empiree:
because you dont make any sense. Your fellow Christians like pastorkun, allnaijablogger etc dont believe "trinity" i:e god-father, god-son, god holy -spirit. Dont you believe in this theory?

You better becareful with me cuz if i start trashing ur bibles now, u will leave Christianity......FOR GOOD

so since they don't believe in it, does it make it wrong...well they are free to believe it or not...let's not delve into irrelevances!!!
Now u insinuated I don't make any sense cos I believe in Trinity because these ur so called "Christians" don't, do they make sense when they believe in the atonement? or believe in Paul's writings? or that Jesus is the Son of God
Now am threatened that I will leave Christianity if he starts "thrashing" the Bible...well let me show u a list of "thrashers u need to get past and beat, den maybe u myt succeed"

1. Ahmed Deedat
2. Zakir Naik
3.Osama Abdullah
4. MSM Saifullah
5. Bart Erhman
6. Yusuf Estes
7. Shabir Ally
8. Yusuf Evans
9. Nadir Ahmed
10.Paul Bilal Williams
11. Sami Zataari
12. Khalid Yasin

Try surpassing each one of them!!! I'd wait u till wen u can!

dejilg:
Now dis shows how dubious and desperate d
quran translators are, now that u hv agreed
that Allah never mentioned d "Trinity"...can
we den say that "Allah" never touched on the
topic Or u stil wanna claim Allah did? Show
us this from the quran if so...
I really laff at ur eisegesis and how u shout
"Paganism" even wen we have told u to stop
misrepresenting the Christian faith...why do
muslims set up "strawman
argument"?...haven't I told u severally to stop
saying we worship "3 gods"...? If u disagree
abt ur ignorance on the "Trinity"...den define
it according to ur undastnding here and let's
see!!!

Empiree:
Are you blind...?you didnt see it in my post?. Here it's again in Arabic

The Arabic word:ﺛﻠـﺜﺔ which means Three (3).
So Qur'an is telling you to desist from saying 3
i:e in reference to you who say "three people
bear witness" i:e God, Holy spirit, Jesus joined
and became One. That's polytheism.

Empiree:
Are you blind...?you didnt see it in my post?. Here it's again in Arabic



And what concern me with your nonsense doctrine. You the one that believe and defended it against op. So take me out of it.

well am happy u r showing us partially the ignorance of allah in this post (I missed dat earlier)...

1. Christians don't define the Trinity as "God, HolySpirit and Jesus"

2. allah never defined the "Three of the quran i.e supposed Trinity" as such as well...

Or u want to prove that allah defined Trinity accurately in the quran?