₦airaland Forum

dabayomi: His name is Jehovah...
To know more, visit www.jw.org

BadBoy25: well you just have a shallow mind . you think you are better than Pol Pot or Idi Amin ? Jesus christ and God does not think like the wicked hearts of humans . a little 14 year old kid masturbating is simply normal human behavior . an atheist who doesn't believe in God probably had something bad happened to them that made them lost faith in God . God understand all of these more than hypocritical religious fundamentalist .

BadBoy25: so you think you are better than gaddafi or adolf hitler . if you really think so ,you are a hypocrite and religious bigot and should be actually condemned to hell forever and ever and ever and ever and ever even if you beg and cry for forgiveness .
Jesus christ loves Adolf Hitler more than hypocrites and religious bigots.

BadBoy25: Jesus christ told them about eternal punishment so that they would be more serious about what he was saying . how could he tell them to commit adultery and murder that he will forgive them?
in the spirit realm there is no time and space . a single second in hell is like eternity. there's no time in the spirit realm. any human who goes to hell would call on God ,and God would save the person . no one is going to be in hell forever and ever and ever in terms of our perspective on this physical realm.
I just don't like selfish religious bigots who want other people to go to hell so that they alone can go to heaven.

BadBoy25: Jesus christ is not as wicked as the fanatical religious bigots . Adolf Hitler has a better chance at heaven than a lot of these hypocrites .
I don't even go to church. I have my own belief and view .
ok so just because the bible says the spirit of God was moving in the waters and then said let there be light ,you believe thats actually what happened ? that story is actually metaphorical . God which is light has always existed for all time .
also the earth is not only 6000 years old . the noah story and other numerous stories in the bible are not meant to be taken literally .

the garden of eden was not on this physical earth,it was a spiritual realm.
the imperfect physical earth and physical realm is what was inherited after adam and eve sinned. no one really knows how adam and eve landed on this physical earth from the spiritual realm . maybe they just suddenly found themselves with bodies in a forest etc. a cherubim was sent to guard the gate of the garden after adam and eve were kicked out . all of adam's offspring must overcome the serpent and resist the apple (temptations and evil) in order to return to the garden of eden (Heaven)

BadBoy25: Jesus christ is not as wicked as the fanatical religious bigots . Adolf Hitler has a better chance at heaven than a lot of these hypocrites .
I don't even go to church. I have my own belief and view .
ok so just because the bible says the spirit of God was moving in the waters and then said let there be light ,you believe thats actually what happened ? that story is actually metaphorical . God has always existed for all time .
also the earth is not only 6000 years old . the noah story and other numerous stories in the bible are not meant to be taken literally .

LagosShia: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:5PM GMT

The Vatican is deeply concerned over a 1500-year-old Bible which was found in Turkey and rejects the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Vatican authorities have called on the Turkish government to allow its experts to examine the content of the book, which was discovered and kept secret in Turkey in 2000.

Reports say the Turkish government has transferred the book to the Ethnography Museum of Ankara with a police escort.

Ankara said that the Bible had been snatched from a mob of smugglers in a Mediterranean region operation.

The book contains the Gospel of Barnabas, a disciple of Christ, and says that Jesus had not been crucified but ascended to heaven alive. St. Barnabas was an early Christian and is traditionally identified as the founder of the Cypriot Church.

It also says Jesus was not the son of God but a prophet who spoke the word of God, calling Apostle Paul “The Impostor.”

The text maintains a vision similar to Islam, contradicting the New Testament’s teachings of Christianity. The ancient book also foresees the coming of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

It is hand written in Syriac, a dialect of Aramaic, which is said to be the native language of Jesus Christ. Some experts and religious figures believe that the book is original, according to reports.

MKA/HSN/SL

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/17/371698/vatican-worried-over-newly-found-bible/

chrisviral: Exactly my point, so any angel that dis-obeys is faulty and what happens to a faulty computer, it's dumped.

BadBoy25: I don't believe in hellfire where fire actually burns you . hell is simply the absence of God's presence ,darkness . I think God is simply loving and understanding and humorous more than our mind can even comprehend . we are too hard on ourselves trying to be perfect. we take ourselves too seriously . I Think everyone will eventually go to heaven at some point ,even adolf hitler ,idi amin,atheist etc. will eventually go to heaven after facing their punishments .
unlike the hypocritical religious fanatics who condemn anyone who doesn't follow their religious ideal .these group of people do not understand human nature and human behavior . They imagine God or Jesus to be extremely serious and frowning all the time .

chrisviral: It's False, Angels don't have emotion, they like robots and do whatever God bids them.

BadBoy25: well I don't know if they have emotions . but they are more perfect than we are . they have more compassion and understanding . they probably laugh at the things we do . I think they have a great sense of humor ,more understanding of human nature and human behavior .
for example when a human being masturbates ,they feel very guilty and bad . i think the angels simply are amused by some of the crazy natural human behaviors displayed by human beings .
for example some very religious people who are hypocrites ,act all disciplined in public but do nasty stuff in secret. well I wonder what the angels and other spirit beings would think about that . maybe they think "look at that guy, who does he think he's fooling"

kennyamusa: 'but you just said that you grew up among christians ? 2.that u have read it to the best of ur knowledge does not mean that u know it very well,there r clear distinction between reading,understnading,quiting and interpretation. 3.For next time,tell people not to confide in you,no one is to be confided in except his creator,No one knows what tommorrow may bring,the no1 rule of nature is 'Never trust anyone. 4.Calling me ignoramus shows ur lack of maturity,what v I said that warrant such ? It shows ur total summation of character but I will let it pass cos am more mature that that. 5.you haven't still answer the question.

kobonaire: Small boy ay .... if it is to chop free meat, you go run go your Muslim friend's house and be hugging him, keeping quiet and just de chop all the meat and rice and swallow like there is no tomorrow. Then very shamelessly, you will next come to NairaLand and attack that very same religion of your friend that you just went to eat food. What a hypocrite indeed. Next time you go to shamelessly chop free Ramadan meat, like you said you do, have the decency to express your true bigoted feelings of Islam to your friend ok? He will probably still allow you to chop your meat but then at least you prove you are now a man and not the shameless individual who's behaviour is clearly on display on NL.

kobonaire: Ay - you are a liar.... you do NOT have Muslims friends that you associate with. If indeed you do have Muslim friends do you ever let them know your distorted thoughts about Islam? Oh let me guess, it's only on NairaLand that you hide behind your computer and do all this this, but if it is to go and chop free food with your Muslim friend you will run and do so.... Very shameless indeed .... just like the way you are behaving like a woman wrapper with the other lady I was originally conversing with.
Grow up young man. If you really dislike Islam this much, have the courage to tell your "Muslim friends" that in Lagos

kobonaire: Allah's will is quite clear : peace and respect for each other and to live without sin. The same as Jesus's will. It's the same as in any other religion:- Hinduism, Buddhism etc

This is what you wrote in your earlier post : "muslims never try to interact reasonably, "
That young man is BIGOTRY. I am guessing you have never lived in a multi cultural / religious city like Lagos because your blatant intolerance for others is quite obvious.

Vikky014: TNX JARE gud9t

kobonaire: what facts are you talking about? Whenever you start a statement like this
1) All Muslims are ....
2) All Christians are ...
3) All Igbos are ...
It automatically makes you a bigot and there is no room to have a meaningful discussion.
Get rid of your ignorance .... the internet is a good resource and useful in educating yourself.
Here's the definition of bigotry

kobonaire: what facts? You are just engaging in bigotry and over generalizations. Ok, a couple of Christian traders in Aba market kill a robber by burning a tyre around his neck. Does that make all Christians murderers? There are over 1 billion plus Muslims in the world and you are making over generalized sweeping statements about them/Islam. What's the logic in that - tell me??

kobonaire: if you are not able to engage in meaningful discussions without resorting to sweeping generalized statements like "all Muslims do this ....", "Islam does this .." then there is no basis for having a conversation.

Vikky014: brado already gave me clearquaran.com so dnt kill urslf

kobonaire: Please see my earlier response.

kobonaire: You are both harebrained individuals. The former completely devoid of logic and the latter a jobless poke nose and woman wrapper.
I have a policy of terminating the discussion with any mügûs I spot on NL, so see you clowns later.

kobonaire: You are both harebrained individuals. The former completely devoid of logic and the latter a jobless poke nose and woman wrapper.
I have a policy of terminating a discussion with and mügû I spot on NL, so see you clowns later.

Abanicwise: Where did it came from ,pls?

Keemie: The verse says?Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth?.
My question to you brother. Does this verse stop here? No it doesnt. It continues and gives the actual reason as to the fighting. This is the continuation: ??until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued?.
1.PAYING JIZYA IS THE CONDITION FOR FIGHTING. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY IGNORED OR OVERLOOKED WHEN LEVYING THIS ALLEGATION OF VIOLENCE ON MUSLIMS.
This verse doesn?t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fightonly thosenon-Muslims who do not pay jizya ? the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.
I can show whole verses from other scriptures that are truly inhuman, yet no one questions them. Do you want a sample? Ill give it to you at the end. I promise.
2.THE VERSE DOES NOT ASK THE MUSLIMS TO DO FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS.
Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non muslims in an islamic stateONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya Willingly. Re-read the verse fromANYtranslation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.
3.QURAN NEVER SAYS TO KILL THE DISBELIEVERS JUST BECAUSE THEY DISBELIEVE.
I openly challenge you to show me ONE verse from the Quran which says to kill the disbelievers just because they are disbelievers.There are verses which permit the Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims. But every time sensible and reasonable conditions are laid. I can show you all verses from other religious scriptures where slaughtering is done for reasons that are as silly and stupid as honor, glory and greatness. Sometimes for fun too. Wait till the end of the article to have a sample.
4.JIZYA ISN?T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING
Coming back to the verse, now people might say isn?t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really.Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism?Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim?s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don?t get! For instance,the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to,the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually burn their asses out to protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands. Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented.Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.
There you go my friend, verse 9:29 doesn?t encourage the muslims to do terrorism. It is a perfectly fair and just verse. Just throw this article on the face of anybody who tries to misrepresent islam to you in the future.
5.EVERY AUTHENTIC TRANSLATION OF THE QURAN HAS THE WORD ?UNTIL? OR ?TILL? IN THE VERSE 9:29
I could lay my hands on 7 different english translations of the quran andALL OF THEM HAVE THE CONDITION:-
1.?[And] fight against those who ? despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] ? do not [truly] believe either in God or the last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon the],till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand,after having been humbled [in war]?9:29 Asad?s Translation
2.?Fight those people of the Book (Jews and Christians) who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, do not refrain from what has been prohibited by Allah and His Rasool and do not embrace the religion of truth (Al-Islam),until they pay Jizya (protection tax) with their own handsand feel themselves subdued.?9:29Malik?s Translation
3.?Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth (even if they are) of the People of the Bookuntil they pay the Jizya with willing submissionand feel themselves subdued.?9:29 Yusuf Ali?s Translation
4.?Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth,until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.?9:29 Pickthall?s Translation
5.?Fight against those who believe not in Allâh, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians),until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.?9:29 Muhsin Khan?s Translation
6.?Fight those People of the Book who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, and do not take as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared as unlawful, and do not profess the Faith of Truth; (fight them)until they pay jizyah with their own handswhile they are subdued.?9:29 Mufti Taqi Usmani?s Translation
7.?Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture ? [fight]until they give the jizyah willinglywhile they are humbled.?9:29 Sahih International Translation
6.FIGHTING NEED NOT ALWAYS BE PHYSICAL, IT CAN ALSO BE INTELLECTUAL
Finally, people might now say well isn?t Islam violent because Muslims are commanded to fight those who do not believe in God and so on etc etc. Not really, because fighting in this verse does not explicitly mean physical violence. Observe the words in the above verses like?willingly?,?willing submission?,?readily?etc.Here it is spoken about bringing a change from within the hearts of people which is brought about intellectually. There are many ways in which you fight against somebody that does not involve a physical aspect. You can fight someone with the tongue, using your wisdom and telling him about the truth, you are fighting against the lies that person is propagating and eventually with your tongue you will speak the truth and crush his lies leading him to the truth. So fighting does not have to only be physical.
But alas! We totally over look these things when we mindlessly base allegations on the Quran. I never comment on any religion until I have read and understood ALL their scriptures. I don?t just google out some anti-religious sites to come up with instant allegations. This is so unfair.
7.Quick Noble Verses that refute theterrorism LIEin Islam:
?Fight in the cause of God those who fight you,but do not transgress limits;for God loveth not transgressors.(The Noble Quran, 2:190)?
?But if the enemy incline towards peace,do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).(The Noble Quran, 8:61)?
?If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me,it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds.(The Noble Quran, 5:28)?
?God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought youabout religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.(The Noble Quran, 60:?
?And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God.But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers.(The Noble Quran 2:193)?
?Let there be no compulsion in religion:Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.(The Noble Quran, 2:256)?
?Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God?s will) in Islam.Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them).(The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)?
?Say, ?The truth is from your Lord?:Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):??(The Noble Quran, 18:29)?
?If it had been thy Lord?s will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth!wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe!(The Noble Quran, 10:99)?
?Say: ?Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.The Messenger?s dutyis only to preachthe clear (Message).(The Noble Quran, 24:54)?
?Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.To you be your Way, and to me mine.(The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)
http://prophetrejectors./929-at-tauba-of-quran-doesnt-encourage-muslims-to-terrorism/

lestat: What amazes me is how Islam is one United Religion, not catholic, deeper life, protestant, Anglican etc. I really love Islam from the depths of my heart, i am a christian but surely we have alot to learn from this beautiful religion.

kobonaire: Ok good question. Let us say that I go and cause bodily harm to Obinna and while doing so proclaim that it is the will of Vikky014, does that really make it your will that I commit violence under your name?
Hope you get my point?

kobonaire: Ok good question. Let us say that I go and cause bodily harm to Obinna and while doing so proclaim that it is the will of Vikky014, does that really make it your will that I commit violence under your name?
Hope you get my point?

kennyamusa: that you grew up among christians doesn't make u one,and it doesn't even answer my question ? I hope u have read the bible well ?

Brandomg: Some good Muslim will surely help with your quote. Kindly also assist me with quotes of these verses after which i shall supply you with more.
Exodus 22:20
Deuteronomy13:6-10
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Matthew 10:34-36
Luke 12:51,52

ARES: Islam work perfectly in countries that own them, look at dubai, saudi, jordan..... u never hear them fight...... the minute it crosses to africa or places where the literacy level is low, it becomes a recipe for disaster