₦airaland Forum

N20 jo

In the first place, nobody is holy.
Why then the holiness teaching?

That people should be holy when they cannot?

All these deeper life, redeem etc, they are all fake

Hmmm!

paxonel:
According to him, fellowship with God is the security of Christians in the days of trouble, because it makes them more than conquerors

lie detected!
Where e dey like this for bible?

So you people dont have hand work again abi?
How this miracle won take remove buhari for power?

xpmode:
I love the part where you stated that you **sound very technical**. Now that you have faulted the Holiness teaching what solution do you proffer?

there is grace teaching of the bible againt pastors holiness teachings.

Holiness teachings demands that without holiness no man can see God.
But grace teachings demands only faith as the criteria to be holy which is much more a simplified christianity better than the holiness doctrine .

Nations classified as industrial or developed nations today had it at their foundation a long time ago that they were never holy people and they were making a lot of mistakes as humans, that they needed to be educated. With that humility and consciousness of their situations they started building quality schools and make them affordable for their children. Today, these same nations are industrialised.
But africans deceived themselves from 1960 telling themselves in their churches that they are holy and teaches people to be holy like them, and because they believe they are holy they never saw themselves commit the natural human error (even though they commit worst errors) and as a result, they never saw any need to educate themselves or their children talkless of building quality schools that may stimilate industrialization over the years.

Therefore the only solution to nigeria problem is quality schools (not the kinda sub standard universities and colleges we have here.

xpmode:
During the early days of GEJ as president, one of the CBN top man in office resigned from office for missionary work abroad, but Sanusi Lamido rejected his resignation letter.

Guess why? He is Deeper Life member, and getting his replacement will be difficult.

he was a good man not because he was deeper life member.
He was a good man simply because he was educated enough to carry out his official duty like anyone else could do, thats why sanusi employed him in the first place. But he is just one of the few good people among the billions of deeper life members many of which are illiterate people who never know their right from their left, yet holiness is demanded from them as if they are angels.

Chief of Defence Staff, Olonisakin, Osinbanjo were proudly RCCG members doing their job well.

Etc etc

mention another one again apart from these few.

We dont need few good people in nigeria to attend the incorrupt nation status expected by the international community, we need 65% good christians of the over 190 billion population and we can only achieve that by not preaching holiness it has been proven.
What i am saying sounds very technical but its true

The Church will preach Holiness, but since it's not a occultic movement, will not force anyone to abide.

i also wish that the church should be holy too, but that has not been the case over the years

Over the years, nigeria as a nation since 1960 have witnessed some sect of christian churches emphasizing holiness among which are deeper life, redeem christian church of God, winners chapel, christ embassey, to mention but few.
It was expected that as these churches rises over the years with their holiness reachings or movement since 1960,there will be more less corrupt people springing up especially from these churches to take up the political and economic affairs of this nation and rule nigeria with transparency and equity.
But today, it has been proven that the reverse is the case and the situation of nigeria is getting worst in the midst of these churches.
The question is, were these churches truly practicing what they preach?
Are these churches truly holy and sanctified as nigerians believe them to be?

CodeTemplar:
The Law may punish murder, adultery, and theft but should it attempt to punish personal sins like alcohol intake and forniication?

This is meant for Muslims and Christians alike and I purposely placed it on Saturday (between Friday & Sunday).

how is alcohol sin?

And by the way, what is fornication?
Dont tell me that sex with my loving girlfriend is fornication o.

If i'm f**king my babe wetin concern government na?

This op talking was a late comer in school.

Can a right thinking person prefer going to school or office late than going to church late?

Is church paying salary?

Omooba77:
Why Do we have more women attendance at Church programmes than men?

it shows that generally, women are less intelligent and emotional than men. Emotional and less intelligent people who don't understand their bible are the ones being religious and going to church often or worstly, becoming church workers like choristers, ushers, etc.

imhere:
No, it is not just a myth but something real that will happened someday Mathew 24: 1-51

when will this someday come?

They have been saying this ever since the roman empire till now

paxonel:
so, how about the option of correcting the religious leaders and get them truly educate the people?

so far they have never listened to anyone.

They assume the position of God to the gullible people.
Where i did my internship in hong kong two years ago, I noticed that it was constitutional that the government should regulate everything religion.

A child was not allowed to go to church or the Hindu temple until he or she is 19.

paxonel:
Exactly!
You have said it all.
even the most brutal military dictator will encounter problems with this approach of yours

You know, democracy is goverment for the people, and the people who are so religious will come for you .

then, let them come!
We will dig it to the end.
I will let them know that I'm the commander in chief

paxonel:
education is required for love to be truly effective does not mean that love doesn't exist among the illiterates.

Love also exist among lower animals as well.

But all the op is saying that, it takes a higher standard of education to achieve the kind of love christ came to preach to the world.

Look at it this way, there is a direct relationship between the economy of a nation and the standard of universities and colleges the nation can afford to it citizens.
In other words, nations of the world with better universities and colleges ended up having better economy due to the fact that there are more educated people living in those nations.
And nations with underrated schools like Nigeria and most African countries will end up having stagnant or slow growing economy

to add to this,
Nigerians value love as much as they value their churches and mosques because love is preached in their churches and mosques.
But Nigerians will never value education because they are yet to see that education should be part of that love they preach in their churches and mosques.
This is a big set-back to Nigeria,
A big set-back to African christianity.

Now, who is to blame for this?

Because ,I will blame the politicians for not doing what they were supposed to do a long time ago.
If I should have my way leading this nation I will flush out all the churches and mosques, they are not playing their significant role towards developing the nation.

Op, I must say that you spoke the bitter truth,

But what kind of a christian are you?

You did not spare the atheists either

What started as a careful exposition of the relationship between dominion and excellence on the third night of the 66th convention of the Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG) turned into a serious challenge for the spiritual growth of Christians.
And, as Enoch Adeboye, general overseer of RCCG, preached on, challenging his listeners to take dominion and show excellence, thousands of people in the auditorium went quiet. He wondered why some people choose to be ordinary Christians or ask God, who has so much to give, for little things.
“For how long are you going to be average?” he asked at a point.
The sermon titled ‘The spirit of excellence’ was his second during the weeklong convention holding at the Redemption Camp of the church. He read from Daniel 6: 1-3.
After his usual opening prayers with the full participation of the congregation and the signature “Let somebody shout Halleluyah,” to which they responded with shouts of “Halleluyah”, Adeboye announced the number of births at the church’s facility during the convention.
As at that night, 50 babies, 26 boys, and 24 girls had been born. The happy congregation cheered that.

He also gave a sanitation report of the Redemption Camp, where participants from the various provinces of the church are staying for the convention. The church is noted for cleanliness even during programmes that attract large numbers of people. The congregation also cheered the winners.
But from that point, the atmosphere became somber and thickened like a cold blanket. Citing many examples, Adeboye showed that even what we describe as good situations and achievements could be improved upon or made better. Good can be better!
For example, he said, after the week of creation, as the Bible put it, “God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good”.
But in a few verses later, God had to get man a companion: “God said, “It’s not good for the man to be alone; I’ll make him a helper, a companion.
“So God formed from the dirt of the ground all the animals of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them. Whatever the man called each living creature that was its name.
“The man named the cattle, named the birds of the air, named the wild animals; but he didn’t find a suitable companion.
“God put the man into a deep sleep. As he slept he removed one of his ribs and replaced it with flesh. God then used the rib that he had taken from the man to make woman and presented her to the man.”

Adeboye said great men of God like Daniel, Joseph, and Paul had the spirit of excellence and that they kept getting better.
According to him, what is common to people with the spirit of excellence is that they are never satisfied with where they are; they strife to get higher and higher in the will of God.
He cited an experience at the Redemption Camp after building the first auditorium.
“When we built the first auditorium near the expressway, it was 100 metres by 50 metres, it was the biggest auditorium in Africa at that time,” he said.
“In fact, some of my children came to me and said we didn’t have to worry anymore about space; that all we needed to do was to build a wall round it and have the biggest church. I laughed.
“Two years later, we had to expand it; a year later we had to double the size; and a year later we had to increase the size. Compare that with where we are now and compare where we are to where we are going.”
The general overseer says he feels uncomfortable with some Christians who settle down with the little they have, without further aspiration.
He recalled the reaction of some of his ministers to the charge to double the church each year. He said he was disappointed over insinuations that it was impossible because doubling the church every year simply translates into every member of the church bringing a new member a year.
“Your father in heaven has more to give,” he stressed. ”Get your vision high. Your vision must be so high that it will require God to accomplish.”
He continued: “How can you insult God by your small request; how can you limit God? How can you ask for healing at a certain stage of your Christian life when you should be healing people, raising people from the dead?”

Recalling another experience, he said after becoming the general overseer, he cried desperately to God that he didn’t want to be an ordinary pastor and God answered in an earth tremor at the Redemption Camp and environs.
He said: “In those days, nobody lived at the Redemption Camp. I am sure some of the elders of the church would remember when one day an antelope bumped into our ministers’ conference. Poor animal, it ended up in the stomach of some people.
“Early in the morning every Tuesday, I would leave our house in Mushin for the camp and be there until Thursday morning when I went to the headquarters for Faith Clinic. The only other people in the camp then were the carpenters who were working, and they would stop as soon as it was dark and retire for the day.
“But I wanted to seek Him; I wanted to be alone; with no noise and nothing to distract me. One night – I remember that night like yesterday – I prayed: “Father, I surrender all; it is only you now; that is all I want. I don’t want to be an ordinary pastor. Please, I am not seeking anything else. Not seeking for gold, not seeking for clothes, not seeking for fame; I want you to empower me so I can do this work. And if you are not going to do it, take me away.
“That day, He answered, and there was a tremor in the camp. The tremor went as far as Ijebu Ode where pictures that hung on the wall were falling.
“When you seek God with all your heart; when you seek Him in desperation, you will find Him.
“For how long are you going to be average and under dominion of Satan?” he asked, his optics in a serious, no-joking mode.
Throughout the sermon, there were no words of knowledge and testimonies were few.
The call to the altar attracted a large number of people, who were made to participate in a 30-minute congregational prayer for God to release His spirit of excellence on the congregation.


lalasticlala, mynd44

paxonel:
. Don't get me wrong! It's not about having Muslims converted to Christians but it's about Muslims including Fulani herdsmen seeing fellow Christians in the North as brothers which will drastically reduce the farmers / Fulani crises.

Remember, most of the farming communities in plateau state who are suffering these attacks are christian communities.

Anyway, I'm just saying that if pastors had presented christianity in a good light over the years in this country by not involving into this modern day merchandising of the gospel, Muslims in the north would have had a better perception of what christianity is about and may not have had reasons to become resentful and violent to their fellow Christians

I get your point!
But in as much as i do not support this trend of money this money that in churches, I do not see how it encourage religious intolerance.

paxonel:
What is important is, Christians should get their pastors do the right thing first, let's see whether Muslims will not gradually be converted to christianity.

this is not realistic!
Why will a Muslim be converted to christianity assuming pastors have suddenly become good people?
Why should it be that people of other religion be converted to your religion,are you not a fundamentalist like that?

What freeze meant is that, pastors who thinks that success only comes when people pay tithe should not take credit, as Ahmed Musa who doesn't pay tithe is a successful player, what's hard there to understand?

paxonel:
anyway! This is how the scriptures comprehensively describe resurrection.

1 Cor15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36.Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

This scripture is simply saying that, just like a seed planted on this earth germinates to become a different body known as a plant(the plant does not look like the seed previously planted), that's how our body will be changed when we resurrect.

We will so change that no one will recognize us when we come back on this earth the second time.

Now how do we come back?

We come back through birth


1 Tim2:15 says Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Eve commited the sin that brought about sinfulness in this world.
The same eve is saved through childbearing so we are all saved through childbearing.

What that means is that, when we are coming back we will be given a new body as a new born baby in the womb of another woman who is a christian and not a woman of any other religion.

Whosever be in Christ (a christian) is a new creature(new born baby).
Old things have passed away (meaning that his previous life as adult where he was a sinner and the consequences of sins have passed away, he is totally free from them. therefore death is beneficial to the christian) .

And to prove that when we are coming back, we will go into the womb of a christian mother.

Rom 6:8 says Now if we be dead with Christ(die as a christian not as a muslim or any other religion) we believe that we shall also live with him(come back to be christians)

And the only way we can come back as a christian is to be born into a christian home and be brought up from childhood by christian parents and not parents from any other religion.

Do you see the sense behind this whole thing?
It sound so realistic unlike rapture which sound unrealistic.

My prayer is God should open our eyes to see good things

all what you have said, you are equally saying that every christian child that is born had once lived and died?

paxonel:
what you are saying is that, rapture has occured already, against the belief that it will happen in the nearest future?

no,
I'm saying that because you have never seen or heard any dead person resurrected and start walking again, it shows that those who will be resurrected at rapture, they will not be seen by humans remaining on earth, they will be carried away

paxonel:
don't be deceived, people live miserably too in heaven.
Heaven is not a bed of roses as religion has made us to believe.

You remember the parable of the sower and the reaper? All that happened in heaven.
Christ started the parable by saying the kingdom of God is like unto...
So he saying what will happen in heaven.

In heaven if you don't sow, you will not reap and you will so suffer eh

This is exactly what is happening on earth, so i can boldly say that heaven is here with us on earth according to Colossians 1:13

have you ever seen or heard anyone died and resurrected and continue life on this earth?
If there is any resurrection now, those who were resurrected, you can never see them again because they have been carried away.

paxonel:
you know what your problem is?
You are busy trying to get the meaning of the phrase caught up by depending on the Latin meaning without reading and summarizing the whole chapter wholistically to see if they truly correlate.

Nothing is hidden under the sun that it will not be revealed clearly.

Let's assume the phase caught up means carried away or rapture according to you, there is no correlation with the summary of the whole chapter with carried away.

I mentioned that the summary of what the writter in 1 the 4:16 is trying to tell us is that, there is resurrection of the dead if you relate it to 1 cor 15.

Basically, they are saying the same thing

1 cor 15:35.But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

If you continue to read it towards the end of the chapter, it described how resurrection takes place

that our body will be changed and we will be given new body the day we resurect after we die.

That there are several kinds of bodies created by God including celestial bodies.

Then, towards the end, it came up with a parable in verse 51 down.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
(meaning, our body will be changed)

52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye
(twinkling of the eye means death. That is,eyes close when we die. , it has been talking about resurrection of the dead since, so it is never out of context)

at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound
( the trumpet signifies death as well. It's like the end of our lives like God or angels using trumpet to call the individual, your time has reach to die)

In those days, trumpet was used to call and gather people for battle, so understand why trumpet is used here.

And the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

It's very simple to understand if you read from the beginning and think.
There is absolutely nothing rapture here, but rather, the summary is that there is resurrection of the dead.

Now, if relate this to that 1 the 4:16, it's still talking about the same thing RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.
It repeated it.
Only that there is CAUGHT UP in the air and i told that it's a parable and there is nothing rapture there.

Caught up in the air simply means heaven.

If you say it means a Latin word known as rapture then how does it correlate with the resurrection of the dead?
How will you now relate it to the fact that we have already been translated to heaven through Christ resurrection? Collosians 1:13
Are you saying we are in heaven now at the same time we are still waiting to go to heaven by rapture?
That when Christ said on the cross it is finish he was joking?
That his resurrection is not powerful enough to give us heaven here on earth?
That it is one future rapture which is powerful than Christ that will come and give us heaven in the mysteries?

Seriously, you people must be joking

So, you are saying that there is no rapture, and that we are already living in heaven.
Is this miserable life on earth looks like heaven to you?

Nay

MistadeRegal:
Studying the Bible properly as you commented, have you really studied the Bible to know the truth about the time of Rapture?
Let me enlighten you a bit.
I quote:
[9]And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. [10]Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
[11]And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
[12]Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Daniel:12:9-12

I quote:
[4]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
[5]For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
[11]And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12]And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[14]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[15]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[21]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[24]For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew:24:4-5,11-15,21,24,29
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
[37]But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38]For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39]And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[44]Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matthew:24:30-31,37-39,44

I quote:
[1]And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. [2]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[4]And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5]And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6]And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[10]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation:13:1-2,4-8,10

I quote:
[12]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
[13]And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
[14]And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
[15]And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
[16]And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. [17]And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Revelation:14:12-17

Read those passages, if possible, read complete chapters and know the Rapture isn't coming before the rise of the antichrist but after the reign of the antichrist. Begin from Daniel's prophecy, 1290 days to 1335 days. Both calculations are same as 42 months which signifies the 3½ years of the antichrist's reign. That is when Christians will prove their sincere love for JESUS CHRIST if they can endure the great tribulation without fighting back.

Be a RAPTURE WATCHMAN.

all these scriptures you quoted, non of them said anything about rapture.

Stop quoting plenty scriptures wrongly.
Face the fact and reality, christians cannot continue to be fooled.

paxonel:
Thank you very much bro!!
I think that Guy has a mental problem
Even if I insulted oyedepo, as someone who is reasonable. The first thing he should have done is to ask, why did you insult him?
If I do not come out with a very good reason for insulting oyedepo, that is when he should have started insulting me too.
But I never insulted oyedepo thank God you noticed it. I only said what I observed, that oyedepo should be realistic with his prophecies and i explained why I said so. If he never understood my reasons and explanations and he is insulting me, that's a sign that he has been defeated.
He does not have any argument to make but exposing his foolishness by insulting

Why should i start insulting oyedepo in the first place?, do i have any business with him only that he should preach the truth?

lol ,
It's ok,
Let's stop the insult.
I'm a member of winners chapel that's why i followed the thread. whatever oyedepo said in his prophecies or any pastor i think they had good intention.

Macmoni:
ok tenk u fr ur opinion but if sm1 insult sm1 u hold in high esteem for no reason u hv dey ryt to tell dem hw stupid dey are

From what he posted, he is on the opinion that Oyedepo's prophesies are fake or unrealistic,I think that was not an insult,He didn't say oyedepo was stupid or something.

Macmoni:
condom could hv averted ur stupidity
diz pig plx go And check d definition of prophecy
idiot b4 u open ur rotten mouth
plz Cop grass if u dnt no wat tu say idiot asif i was not in d cross ova nite
h.i.v kill u there

Oga, it's like you are a trouble maker.
You came into a thread and saw someone saying he or she does not like your pastor,Bishop Oyedepo's prayer. The next thing you start insulting the person. That is not fair.
Everyone on nairaland have the right to say what they like and what they don't like.
Your action by insulting people for saying their opinion about your pastor is not different from boko haram insulting or killing christians for saying their opinion about Islam, that Islam is not the way, christianity is the way.
It is not different from terrorism, only that you are insulting terrorists are killing.
I bet you, even Bishop Oyedepo will not support you for that.
I'm just saying...

Pastor Enoch Adeboye is the biggest scammer in terms of prophecies, Suleman dey learn.
By just mere shouting AMEN by thousands of worshippers his prophecies are fullfilled to benefit him alone immediately. while the thousands of voices which ended up getting cracked by the exercise goes home empty.

Pastor Enoch Adeboye is the biggest scammer in terms of prophecies.

-Living Faith Church
-Christ Embassy
-Hilltop Church
-RCCG
-Dominion City
-Apostolic
-Catholic
-Coza
-House on the Rock
-Anglican
-OFM
-MFM
-CHURCH OF CHRIST etc.

All these churches you mentioned are error churches. We regrate having them in Nigeria.
These churches have been there for decades yet corruption is everywhere.
The church members are far from being sincere.
80% of these same church members are extremely poor like most Nigerians inspite their tithe.

When Jesus says i will build my church he never meant church buildings.

The church is you and me.

all buildings and their ordinances will collapse someday, it's only you that lives eternally through Christ.

Bush man