₦airaland Forum

Hanaway:
I guess someone that spends a large portion of his time defending a fairy tale is rather jobful. Clap for yourself.

Yes. He is rather "jobful" because that "Fairytale" blesses him daily, and that beyond degree.

What have you gained in your whole life trying to refute/criticize the "Fairytale"?

Hanaway:
But you criticise movie characters, right? This guy is a genius.



The same nonsense you have been regurgitating? Oh please

Who criticizes movie characters? Nobody is that jobless.

Except maybe you.

Hanaway:
I agree with satan. God is wicked, a tyrant and a sadist who derives pleasure at the expense of our well-being, and he brought satan, along with innocent vulnerable humans into the craft for justification of his endless sadistic game.

But GOD does not exist, right? Run along then.

Sounds like a crappy movie. But how is God certain that another rebel wouldn't rise up in time to come? I know you will argue he does because he's omniscient, and that he has made proper plan to ensure that it doesn't happen. But he did know satan will rebel before creating him and yet he still went ahead to create him. Coughs.

Go and read the Bible. Don't be lazy. Answers to all these are found in there.

hopefulLandlord:
Jesus promised to get rid of bad people

Odin promised to get rid of ice giants

I don't see any ice giants, do you?

Why not stop bothering yourself with Jesus? Why not enjoy peacefully this one and only life you have?

Maybe you'll find out if it was all true or false when you die(if the LORD tarries)?

wirinet:
And you think you are full of understanding? Religion truly gives the ignorance a false sense of wisdom.

Exactly.

[quote author=Hanaway post=52105016][/quote]So that the charge which Satan brought against GOD(that His rule over Creation is arbitrary and inconsiderate, as opposed to his(Satan's) opinion of independence from GOD) will be proven totally wrong. All Creation would finally agree that only GOD's reign can guarantee peace.

And then the enemy and his cohorts will be obliterated for good.

Hanaway:
Christianity in itself is a concept that doesn't fail to amaze me. How can people be carrying out a monotonous exercise till eternity, I mean worshipping God for all eternity?

So when God's slated day of rapture comes, he will then separate the good from bad and plunge the rest into hell.

And he believes taking such action would shield his beloved heaven against evil? He might as well deny them their mind and make them mindless robots. On second thought, in that case, he shouldn't have given humans the gift of freewill right from the start.

The person who wrote the bible is really a daft.

Allah's paradise seems more promising. Atleast each man to his 77 virgins and there are wines in abundance.

Don't worry. GOD will annihilate sinners by the fire of His vengeance. Sinners will cease to exist.

At least the people who wrote the Bible were learned, and they knew how to construct good sentences.

[s]

wirinet:
Tell that lie to the hundreds that died at reigners church in Uyo last week, tell that to the hundreds that died when hundreds died at the collapsed synagogue church building last year. Millions of Christians face tragedies daily just like any other group of people.

No christian has an assurance of heaven, even the Bible says "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven"

[/s]

If you are devoid of understanding, don't mention me.

Can the writer of this article prove that the N20 or N50
which the "poor" people give as offering every week is the
reason why they are still poor? Can the writer of this article
show how offering takes away food from people? Can the writer of this article prove that GOD requires a
student to "pray" with all his time and neglect his studies?
Can the writer of this article prove that GOD forbids people
from taking medication when ill? Can the writer of this article
show us how praying for the ill is detrimental to his/her
recovery? Can the writer of this article prove that prayer has not healed any sick person? These are the questions for now.

[s]

randomperson:
Your ignorance, naivety or more aptly, your cluelessness is mind boggling. The issue of people giving their own money as offering is not an issue bothering Nigeria? U need a serious orientation to counteract the effects of decades of brainwashing on you..
The idea of an operative economy is that money is transferred in exchange for goods and services... When billions, perhaps trillions of naira are spent on building churches, that add nothing to the economy, there is a nominal deficit. If the business man that pays 100,000 as tithe instead inputs it into his business, he has more capital, increases production and capacity, employs more people and so on. He pays higher taxes too BTW...
A person made an analogy which I think is apt here. If every RCCG church was instead a factory or business enterprise, Nigeria will be a lot better. It's particularly sad that the same people that pay 10% of their incomes are always trying to evade taxes.

[/s]

randomperson:
This is pathetic. So I shouldn't discuss issues pertaining to Nigeria on a Nigerian public forum?? Why? Because it affects your sentiments?
And when pastors want to cajole people into dropping their money, do they use the ''because of the love of God" line or the "give and it shall be given unto you" line?
And you know that he blesses you far beyond what you can offer? Tell that to Christians starving to death in Africa

The issue of people giving their own money as offering out of their own volition is not an issue bothering Nigeria.

Go and be useful to yourself and Nigeria as a whole, and stop making noise on Nairaland about how people spend their own money.

randomperson:
What kind of argument is this? Bill Gates pays millions in taxes. Churches can pay taxes too... And people pay tithes and offering because bible says give and it shall be given unto you and god also promised to open the flood gates of heaven ... U are not good at lying, stop trying

Go and get the NASS to enact a law which will make churches pay tithes. Stop making noise here.

Stop lying. The Bible did not say "give tithe, it will be given unto you." When Jesus says "give, it shall be given unto you" He means we should be liberal in giving to the less privileged, for there is a reward.

It is the duty of the every Christian to pay tithes and offerings: they belong to GOD. 1/10 of man's income belongs to GOD: He owns it. That He promises to bless abundantly those who pay tithes is of His own benevolence. The blessing or not, 1/10 belongs to GOD.

We know that He blesses us far beyond what we can offer, anyway.

randomperson:
No... These are not the questions. Churches make a lot of money but add virtually nothing to the economy. The people that pay offering pay, in part because of the promise of their god to provide for them. This is a problem in and of itself.... It's not a coincidence that the more religious countries and continents are the most backward ones

This is just like saying "Bill Gates" makes a lot of money but adds nothing to the economy of USA. Meanwhile, what do you want churches to add to the economy?

Stop lying. People pay offering because they are thankful to GOD.

Stop lying.

DeepSight:
The architect may be criminally negligent and in the case of a building that is actually designed to murder its occupants in the way that nature is designed to murder us all, or consume us all for food - the architect may be psychopathic.

The bolded word summarizes the validity of your argument.

DeepSight:
This is a bad analogy. You have not shown that the living economy was ever anything different from what we all see. You then claim that it was different and then you ask us to prove that it was not! In this you then bring in "The absence of proof is not the proof of absence."

That is beyond odd my friend, and I will not engage you further unless I see anything tangible in whatever you say going forward. Otherwise consider this conversation over.

If you had any understanding, you would know I simply tried to show you that reason proscribes assuming that things have been this way if you cannot prove it.

DeepSight:
Is there any evidence to the contrary?

Is the living economy not what we see and have always historically known?

If it was different in times past, does the onus not rest on you who claim so to prove that?

Do this living economy not also stretch to wild animals?

Did the creator intend lions to chew the cud?

The absence of proof is not the proof of absence. The fact that you cannot determine whether things has always been this way proscribes labelling the Creator as not-benevolent on your part.

If you must call the Creator names, you must proof that He is really what you think. Or else you refrain from calling Him names.

Can you find out the moral standing and personality(the goodness or badness of the person) of an architect by studying the edifice he designed? If the building which the architect designed(accurately) collapses tomorrow, is the architect evil and horrible?

Edited.

This write-up assumes that the "living economy" has always existed i.e. things has always been so.

If the writer of this piece can prove that the "living economy" was the original intention, product and design of the Creator, only then would he have the right to label the Creator as cruel and not-benevolent.

Can the writer of this article prove that the N20 or N50 which the "poor" people give as offering every week is the reason why they are still poor? Can the writer of this article show how offering takes away food from people?

Can the writer of this article prove that GOD requires a student to "pray" with all his time and neglect his studies? Can the writer of this article prove that GOD forbids people from taking medication when ill? Can the writer of this article show us how praying for the ill is detrimental to his/her recovery? Can the writer of this article prove that prayer has not healed any sick person?

These are the questions for now.

The dragon, of course, is Satan himself. But when did Satan deceive the whole world? When he was cast out of heaven, there were only two people on the earth, and they represented the entire world. By deceiving Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, Satan led all the world astray and came into temporary possession of the earth. The great controversy between good and evil, which had started in heaven, was now transferred to this planet.

A Prediction of Enmity

After the fall of man, God pronounced a curse upon each participant in that original transgression. In Genesis 3:15, we read of the curse that was placed upon the devil or the dragon. “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” Here is a prophecy of the age long struggle that would exist between the dragon and the woman, and between the seed of the dragon and the seed of the woman.

II. THE DRAGON AND THE WOMAN

At this point, we are prepared to ask another question concerning this appropriation of power on the part of the beast. Where did she receive the authority to rule over the world for 1,260 years and to persecute so many millions of people for their faith? The answer is found in Revelation 13:2, “And the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” Notice that the power comes from the dragon. But who is the dragon? Revelation 12:7-9: “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

At that time, the Pope was actually made king once more, and the Vatican City was set up as a political sovereign power. From that day to this, the strength of the papacy has been advancing with tremendous strides. At this present time most of the countries of the world have political representatives at Vatican City. The incredible influence of the papacy in world affairs is attested to by the headlines in today’s newspaper. Almost every utterance of the pope is published to the ends of the earth, and millions and millions of people look to the papal power as the greatest influence in politics today. Yes, the wound has certainly been healed, and the world continues to follow after the beast.

Cc: Mimzyy

Both are symbolic of the papacy. This is God’s graphic illustration of the papal power, as it came up to exercise arbitrary authority over the earth for 1,260 years. Further similarity is found by reading Revelation 13:3, “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” As we have already established, the deadly wound was given in the year 1798 A.D., when the French armies carried the Pope away into exile. But that wound was to be healed, and finally the whole world would give its allegiance to the papacy again. That prophecy has been fulfilled very, very vividly before our eyes. It was in the year 1929 that Mussolini executed the Concordat of 1929 with the Pope, restoring the properties that had been taken away from the Church.

Cc: Mimzyy

The Beast and Little Horn

Identical You may be wondering what all of this has to do with the beast of Revelation 13. We are now
ready to identify that strange, composite animal described in the book of Revelation. Let us read
the description of that beast once more, which has the body of a leopard, the feet of a bear, and the mouth of a lion. “And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.” Verse 5. Notice, please, that this beast is doing exactly the same thing as the little horn of Daniel. Verse five continues, “And power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.” How long is forty-two months? Exactly 1,260 prophetic days or years—the same as the 3 1/2 times of Daniel’s prophecy. Concerning the beast, we read further, “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them.” Verse 7. This beast is also a persecut- ing power. In other words, the beast of Revelation 13 is the very same power as the little horn.

We need only to be reminded that the Catholic Church has ever attributed to itself the power to forgive sins. As to the great words, let me quote from an article by F. Lucii Ferraris, contained in the book Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica Juridica Moralis Theologica. This book was printed at Rome and is sanctioned by the Catholic encyclopedia. Listen to these claims: “The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted, that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the Vicar of God. The Pope is, as it were, God on earth, chief king of kings, having plenitude of power.” Volume VI, pp. 2529. These are only a few of the words that the Bible defines as blasphemy. Thus, the papacy meets the marks of identity as the little horn power.

Coming now to the seventh point of identity, we find that history supports the prophecy concerning papal persecution. Everyone who has any knowledge of the Middle Ages is acquainted with the fact that millions of people were tortured and killed by the Catholic inquisitions. From a book written by a Catholic cardinal, which also bears the sanction of the Church, we read, “The Catholic Church … has a horror of blood. Nevertheless when confronted by heresy … she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture. She creates tribunals like the Inquisition. She calls the laws of the state to her aid. … Especially did she act thus in the 16th Century with regard to Protestants. … In France, under Francis I and Henry II, in England under Mary Tudor, she tortured the heretics.” The Catholic Church, The Renaissance and Protestantism, pp. 182-184.

We could multiply statements like this from historians, both Catholic and Protestant, that describe the horrible tortures of the papal authorities upon Protestants. Thus we can see the complete fulfillment of this description of the little horn.

The eighth mark, as given in verse twenty-five, concerns the attempt to change God’s laws. Does this apply to the papacy? Please note this: the Catholic Church has removed the second commandment from her doctrinal books and catechism, because it condemns the worship of images. The tenth commandment is then divided so that they still have ten commandments. But two are against coveting, and there is none against idolatry. In this way, the papacy has thought to change the law, but unsuccessfully. God’s law cannot be changed.

Finally, we come to the ninth identifying mark, which tells us exactly how long this papal power would exercise its authority in the earth. We discovered that it would be for a period of 1,260 years. Is this according to the record of history? Remember, that we have noted how the papacy began its reign, by order of Justinian, in 538 A.D. By counting down 1,260 years from this date we are brought to the year 1798. In that very year the French general, Berthier, marched his armies into Rome and pulled the Pope off his throne. He was carried away into exile, and all the properties of the Church were confiscated.

The French Directory government decreed that there would never be another Bishop of Rome. As far as the world was concerned, and by all outward appearance, the Catholic Church was dead. After exactly 1,260 years, in fulfillment of the prophecy, she lost her control of the world. Thus, the final point is clearly fulfilled in the papacy, and in it only.L


,

Third, when the papacy arose, it was opposed by three of the tribes that had taken over at the collapse of the Roman Empire. The Vandals, Ostrogoths and Heruli were Arian powers that strongly opposed the rise of the Catholic Church. The armies of Rome marched in to uproot and completely destroy these three tribes. The last of the three was destroyed in the very year 538 A.D., when Justinian’s decree went into effect. Fourth, the Catholic Church did have a man at the head of its system. Fifth, the papacy was a diverse kind of power from the other political kingdoms before it. It was a religio-political system quite unlike anything that had been seen in the world before that time. Now we take a look at the sixth characteristic— the speaking of great words and blasphemy against the Most High. Does the papacy meet this description?

Cc: Mimzyy

An Exact Fulfillment

We have before us now a list of nine specific characteristics, which have been lifted out of the seventh chapter of Daniel in description of the little-horn power. There is only one power in all history that meets the description given here. In other words, God closes every other option, and forces us to the only possible conclusion: the Catholic Church alone fulfills all the points of identity established in Daniel 7. Let us take a quick look and notice how clearly this is done. First of all, the papacy did arise in western Europe, at the very heart of the territory of the pagan Roman Empire—in Rome itself. Second, it did come up after 476 A.D. It was in the year 538 A.D. that a decree of Emperor Justinian went into effect that assigned absolute preeminence to the Church of Rome. These are facts of history that can be verified by any authoritative historical source.

Cc: Mimzyy

Thus we see that the two periods of time are exactly the same. By comparing these Scriptures, we understand that a time is a year in Bible prophecy, times is two years, and half a time is half a year. This gives us a total of 3 1/2 times, or 3 1/2 years, because 3 1/2 years is exactly equal to 1,260 days. We are using, of course, the Bible year of 360 days. We are now ready to apply another great principle in the interpretation of prophecy. Please notice that always in measuring prophetic time, God uses a day to represent a year. In Ezekiel 4:6 we read the actual rule, “I have appointed thee each day for a year.” Further support of this is found in Numbers 14:34. This method of reckoning time must always be applied in the study of Bible prophecy. This means, then, that the little horn power would rule for 1,260 years, instead of merely 1,260 days.

Cc: Mimzyy

A Rule of 1,260 Years

The ninth, and final identifying mark, in verse twenty-five, tells us exactly how long this little horn would exercise authority in the earth, “and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.” Here we are faced with a strange expression. It is actually a prophetic term that the Bible itself explains. In Revelation 12:14, we read these words concerning the same time period, “And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.” Now read verse six, which describes the same event. Instead of saying, “a time, times, and half a time,” it says, “a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

Cc: Mimzyy

Now let us read another definition of blasphemy. Jesus had forgiven a man his sins, and the scribes said, “Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only?” Mark 2:7. Clearly, Jesus was not a blasphemer, because He was God and He was able to forgive sin. But for a man to make such claims would constitute blasphemy, according to the Bible’s own definition. Now we come to the seventh point of identity, found also in verse twenty-five, “and shall wear out the saints of the most High.” This tells us that the little horn is a persecuting power. It will make war with God’s people and cause them to be put to death. The eighth mark is also given in verse twenty-five, “and think to change times and laws.” Apparently, in its bitter opposition to the God of Heaven, in speaking great words against Him, this power also seeks to change the great law of God. This move of the little horn could only be an attempt to make a change. Obviously, man can never alter the moral law of God.

Cc: Mimzyy

Fourth, the little horn would have “eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.” Verse 8. This indicates that a human being would be at the head of the power represented by the little horn. Fifth, “he shall be diverse from the first (horns).” Verse 24. This means that the little horn would be a different kind of power from those purely political kingdoms that preceded it. The sixth characteristic is revealed in the first part of verse twenty-five, “And he shall speak great words against the most High.” Another verse says, “speaking great things and blasphemies.” Revelation 13:5. At this point, let’s define from the Bible the meaning of blasphemy. In John 10:30–33, Jesus was about to be stoned for claiming to be one
with the Father. The Jews who were going to kill Him said, “For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” According to this text, it is blasphemy for a man to be accorded the place of God.

Cc: Mimzyy

In order to avoid all mistakes of identity, it would be well first to consider the nine characteristic marks described in the prophecy itself. These marks of identity will enable us to be absolutely sure of the interpretation. We dare not guess or speculate concerning the historical identity of this “little horn” of prophecy. First of all, the little horn came up among the ten. This places it geographically in Western Europe. Second, it came up after the ten arose, because it came up “among them.” Since the ten arose in 476 A.D., the little horn would have to begin its reign some time after that date. Third, it would uproot three of the ten tribes as it came to power. The eighth verse says that before the little horn, “there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots.”

Cc: Mimzyy

Seven of those tribes are still in existence to this very day, having grown into modem nations. They survive on the map of Europe as significant twentieth century powers. Three of them disappeared from the stage of history, as we shall learn in just a moment.

The Little Horn

Now we are prepared to read the next verse of the prophecy and find out the meaning of the little horn in the vision of Daniel. “I considered
the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.” Verse 8. Here we must be very, very careful, indeed. We must not make the mistake of falsely identifying the little horn power, because it will prove to be the great antichrist power of history.

Cc: Mimzyy