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Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 2:36pm On Aug 19, 2014
Niftyrules: Ok fine. Also, let me know the thread link where I can write it.
You can post it here.
Christianity EtcRe: Criticism by DrummaBoy(m): 6:05pm On Aug 18, 2014
^^^

In other words, never criticize.

Yet Jesus was heavily critical of the religious leaders of his day. See Matthew 23.

John the Baptist died because he dared to critique Herod.

Steven was stoned to death because he critique the Jews.

Paul critiqued false prophets of his time. He called them dogs in Philippians 3.

John critiqued a Pastor, Diotrephus, and commanded the saints to never imitate him.

The core of Jesus' words in his letters to the churches in Rev. were heavily critical.

Where did this morbid fear of criticism come from in Christendom today?

It came from falsehood that abounds in church today. I dare say no other time in Christian history demand more critical analysis of gospel preaching than now.

Again, there is only one reason anyone would fear a critic and that is if he has something to hide. He that is in the light fears not light shining on him; except he is in darkness.

Friend, forget that New Age thinking that discourages criticism. It had no example in the bible.
Christianity EtcRe: Mistakes In Giving by DrummaBoy(m): 3:18pm On Aug 18, 2014
^^^

Don't mind the OP. The guy miss road ni.

He won't be returning, I can assure you.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 11:16am On Aug 18, 2014
Niftyrules: @Op, I will like to introduce some of my christian poetry in here. I already done quite a number of them.

I just hope I've got a place in here to do that.
Please go ahead.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 3:46pm On Aug 17, 2014
DrummaBoy: 1. It was the organizers desire that the convention be concluded first before it makes front page. Front page topics last an average of 24 hours. The convention lasted three days, 72 hours. If it had made front page at inception, people would be denied the benefit of the whole discuss. You can however take advantage of the access to the links to the nine papers presented at the convention on the second post at the OP.

2. Traditionally Christian worship is Sunday. The convention is a Christian convention. There is no better day for it to make front page.
naijaobi: sometimes i wonder what nairaland is turning into. So, a thread like this exists and it is only making front page today when the convention has ended? Smh
cirmuell: What are we supposed to do now, we didn't even know about this.
Raypawer: angry angry angry so na now the convention don finnish mods fit bring am com front pagehuh
Christianity EtcRe: Opinion:Should A Gambler Pay His Tithe? by DrummaBoy(m): 12:19pm On Aug 17, 2014
It is not whether you should tithe or not tithe that should bother you, OP. What should bother you is what kind of Christianity is it that you practice that allows you to make gambling a source of livelihood.

For me, its pure irresponsibility.

Find a good job, do it and earn legitimate cash. Then worry about tithing then.

BTW, no one earning a legitimate income should tithe a dime on it.

But OP what you need to hear is that you get a job. Then you can decide what to do after that.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 9:56am On Aug 17, 2014
suwailad: My question is why would this post make fp when its already closed and why must christian stuff make fp ONLY on sundays? You mean seun has relegated God only to one day? So politics, romance etc is now bigger than God?
1. It was the organizers desire that the convention be concluded first before it makes front page. Front page topics last an average of 24 hours. The convention lasted three days, 72 hours. If it had made front page at inception, people would be denied the benefit of the whole discuss. You can however take advantage of the access to the links to the nine papers presented at the convention on the second post at the OP.

2. Traditionally Christian worship is Sunday. The convention is a Christian convention. There is no better day for it to make front page.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 9:50am On Aug 17, 2014
Thank you moderator for putting this thread on front page.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 9:44pm On Aug 16, 2014
BabaGnoni: GRACE CONVENTION 2014

word count/statistics using Microsoft Word 2002


Anony1 1131 words

Yooguyz 1716 words

trustman part 1 2089 words
trutsman part 2 1898 words >> 3987 words

Alwaystrue Chapter 1 1344 words
Alwaystrue Chapter 2 1250 words
Alwaystrue Chapter 3 1005 words >> 3599 words

Ihedinobi2 1999 words
Ihedinobi2 1957 words >> 3956 words

BabaGnoni 2217 words
BabaGnoni 1783 words >> 4000 words

PastorOluT 1521 words
PastorOluT 1597 words
PastorOluT 833 words >> 3951 words

Striktlymi 1555 words

MarkMiwerds 1109 words
MarkMiwerds 1255 words
MarkMiwerds 1299 words
MarkMiwerds 246 words >> 3909 words
Courtesy: BabaGnoni.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 9:35pm On Aug 16, 2014
Ehhnn..., BabaGnoni sad

In the Law courts, the judge at some point will ask the prosecuting or defendant's lawyer "Where exactly are these questions leading to...?"

I am not sure whether my job as a moderator still subsist at this point on the thread.

But do you mind answering that question, assuming my duty as moderator, a kind of judge, is still standing on the thread. cool
Christianity EtcRe: The Making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014 by DrummaBoy(op): 9:05pm On Aug 16, 2014
^^^^

Thank you BabaGnoni for the attention you have placed on details for us.

God bless you.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
Thank you MarkMiwerds for that splendid contributions to the convention.

For those who have touted MarkMiwerds as someone who knows nothing but tithes, I sincerely hope you can see that he knows much more than tithes. Mark has presented a discuss on grace, the danger of mixing grace with law, and has not mentioned tithes anywhere. I trust God that such people will find grace to repent and enjoy the wonders of God's grace in their lives.

As we close this convention, I have no apologies in saying this that if any man or woman today is still confusing grace with law, so much so that such a person still thinks he can curry God's favor through tithing, giving a first fruit, keeping the Sabbath, circumcising his male or female child, offering burnt offerings, keeping the New Moon and the old one, etc, such a person is not enjoying the grace of God and such an individual is not competent to speak on the subject of grace.

I really do hope that the audience can read all the presentations and find grace to help them in the time of their needs.

Nonetheless, I thank all the presenters for their efforts in making Grace Convention 2014 a success. I thank all our audience for reading our post.

I trust God that we will all enjoy God's manifold graces in our lives. In Jesus Name.

I hand over to Goshen360 to close this year's convention.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 5:08pm On Aug 16, 2014
Thank you Ihedinobi for your answer.

I have no more questions.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
In the discuss below, I wish to respond to three points raised by Alwaystrue in her presentation. My submission here is not as a moderator in this convention but in my personal capacity as a member of Nairaland. I will prefer that this is not taken as an 'attack' on the presenter but as my contribution to the discussion generally. Except for these three, I agree with virtually every other thing that is written in that presentation.

Alwaystrue: Therefore, why did the law have to come in? The law was demanding of man what he wasn’t giving it. Why was there need for a systematic body of rules to govern behavior enforced in place of the wonderful loving relationship of hearing directly the word of God and in quiet and reverential obedience doing that which should come naturally?
Let us keep in mind that God gave commands and instructions right from creation and penalties were attached to disobeying them. However a formal structure was put in place by Moses to which a default usually led to a merciless punishment either by man/special atonement or often swiftly by God.

Galatians 3:19; 21; 23-24 tells us that the law came because of transgressions till the promised seed would come. The law was a school master that brought us to Christ when we acknowledge we cannot please God of ourselves only by His supernatural strength when we believe. And this law was not against the promise of God…At all.

The above scriptures capture the essence for why the law was given and written. The law was added due to sin & unrighteousness, a demand so stringent, it had been stripped of the grace that could have gone with it had it been it had been a communication between God and his people directly and the faithlessness that characterized not wanting to hear God directly, governed by unhealthy fear. No wonder something as basic as loving God and your neighbor as yourself had to be broken down to an endless list of rules and regulations as common with dealing with children and written in stone. Because people were prone to go after strange God’s, up to their mode of dressing and their relations had to be micro-managed so that they did not act like the heathens did. All these laws were the breakdown of the main law of the Spirit God had wanted to write in the hearts of man for He said
‘I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people’ (Heb. 8:10; Jer. 31:33)
Why Was the Law Given

It would have been good if the presenter had quoted the Galatians 3 scripture that was suggested to prove this point but I understand the constrain that must have arisen because of the limitations the convention placed on number of words. So I provide it here:

19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. 21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

This was the presenter's interpretation of why the law was given:

The law was added due to sin & unrighteousness, a demand so stringent, it had been stripped of the grace that could have gone with it had it been it had been a communication between God and his people directly and the faithlessness that characterized not wanting to hear God directly, governed by unhealthy fear
Is this statement exactly true? I do not think so.

Can we confidently say that God intended for any kind of grace to have come with the law? The intention for giving the law is well documented in the Galatians scripture. There was no need for the presenter to add to it. It was simple: the law was to act as a guide, a school master until the time of grace. After which the law was no longer needed. Paul will go on to describe the fact that those under the law could be likened to as children and those under grace, as men who have come to maturity. Indeed God's intention was to have his laws etched upon our hearts; he preceded this by etching the law on stones first. Today, glory to God, those laws are within us.

The incidence at Sinai, where God spoke to Israel, that led to them fearing and pleading that God should not speak to them again except via a mediator, was carefully ochestrated by God to instill his fear in them. However, in Hebrew 12 we see that those under grace have not come to a mountain of fear anymore; rather we have come to zion. This does not remove the need to regard God with reverence and godly fear; but it certainly has delivered us from the fear that slaves have towards a tyrannical Master.

The point I wish to disprove in the presenter's post is simply that the Law of Moses is abolished, obsolete and no longer practiced in the New Testament church. This is a point that is missing in the over 3,500 words of the presenter. A point that is emphatically stated by scriptures:

4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth - Romans 10

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby - Ephesians 2

13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away - Hebrew 8



Alwaystrue: CHAPTER 2
The Supply of the Grace


Grace, I will opine, as favour shown to the unworthy and the divine ability to do things God’s way; this could be divine ability for salvation and divine ability to do what we would not normally be able to do and it comes as a result of being connected to Jesus Christ, His Son. Jesus, while on earth was the fulness of the Spirit, of truth and grace. He was the confirmation of what God said when the Israelites rejected God’s words to them on Sinai. While He wanted to deal with them in words, they wanted it in laws.
I believe the definition provided for grace in this text is inadequate (edited). Grace is 'charis' in greek; it indicates the favor of God to the unworthy. That is its primary meaning. It is God's gift to the sinner, see Ephesians 2:8. Grace is nowhere defined in scriptures as 'the divine ability to do things'. The very essence of the grace of God is for men to for once cease doing things and enjoy what God has done. The divine ability to do things is a definition supplied by charismatics that has no bearing on scriptures because they cannot see beyond do, do and do in Christendom.

It is when the believer has become secured in what God has done in Jesus Christ by the cross, that whatever he does in appreciation of grace becomes acceptable to God.

Now there is a scripture that seem to nullify my position here and let us observe it:

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace [which was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. - 1 Corinthians 15

Its easy to conclude that this was equally the position of the presenter. But notice that Paul was talking about the grace of God to carry out his ministry; those were the 'things' God's grace was available to him for. Not grace to keep the law, which to me seem the obvious reason why the presenter used the term 'the divine ability to do things'.

Its easy these days to forget that grace is foremost encapsulated in what God has done in Christ and bestowed on undeserving sinners; and to reduce grace to 'ability to do things'; which in many cases is to keep the law of Moses.

Alwaystrue: CHAPTER 3

[b]Lawlessness:
Equally damaging, however, is that doctrine that excludes law. Law is control and grace is power. Those who teach the doctrine of grace without law are teaching divine power without divine control. Power without control is dangerous in any realm whether physical, political, or ecclesiastical, governmental, intellectual, and certainly spiritual. This is the doctrine of lawlessness. Satan, its originator, will bring it to full manifestation in the man of sin, the lawless one.

CONCLUDED
In the last convention, their was a paper presented titled 'Grace is not License'. The reason why the organizers took the pain to show this was to erase the notion that those who teach grace are lawless. The laws Christians keep today are the law of love which our Savior commanded us. Paul shows us that all the laws of Moses are summed in this. Therefore when we are told to keep laws, so that there will be some power of control, we need to ask: what laws? If it is the law of Moses; no. If it is the law of Christ; yes.

Like the presenter said, this convention has shown that human beings cannot live outside laws; having enacted laws to govern the running of the convention. But I must say here that the laws enacted for this convention were not the laws of Moses; neither were they laws breadth down the necks of everyone here; they were laws agreed on by every member of the forum, over a long period of time while the convention was in the making. These laws were made in the spirit of freedom, understanding, fairness and love. These are ingredients missing in the laws of Moses; ingredients found in the law of the Spirit of life - the law of Christ.

Thank you.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 7:13am On Aug 16, 2014
ihedinobi2: Toward A United Christian Voice?

How shall we gain a united Christian voice? Anywhere, for that matter? How shall Christians attain visible unity? Is it even possible with the cacophony out there? What can we do to get to expressing the unity of the Spirit?

Here’s what the Lord said: ‘"by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love one to another"’. That is all the answer that I am happy to give. There is something that identifies Christians, a kind of badge. It is Love, the setting of someone else’s well-being as such a priority that you could inconvenience yourself in order to ensure its maintenance if need be. That was the example that the Lord set for us. This is the visible feature that unifies us.
You have very well conveyed the mind of the organizers of this convention in your paper.

My question:

If true Christian unity is displayed in the act of love: loving God and our neighbour, can it be said that many a Muslim, Agnostic, Buddhist, etc, shall be saved at the last day as they have fulfilled God's law of love (see Paul in Romans 2 about Gods law written on hearts); while a good number professing Christians shall be damned for holding the name Christ on lips alone but denied him in action? Shall men not professing Christ today be truly united with him because they walk in love?
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
BabaGnoni

(I was going to send a PM but decided against it).

I only got to read your submission now. I was on the road much of yesterday.

That presentation up there, to say the least, is excellent. For some of us who took a step out in faith to form an "ekklesia" outside an established "church" system, we find great comfort in your words. We also see that there are pitfalls we should guard against lest the "ekklessia" becomes a "church" too. I believe the question Gombs asked me on a special thread as to whether a church should practice democracy is adequately answered in the share description of the true root meaning of the word "church".

However, there is a little omission or maybe you didn't see it necessary, in the well written bullet points on the church history, where we are coming from: you left out dates! While you might not be able provide the exact date of when the events happened, you could provide a summary period. Like the century (eg: 7th or 18th century) or period bracket (eg: 50-100AD). This will help the readers a great deal. You may simply do an edit on the text.

Thank you for the effort in providing a historical perspective that hopefully will help theological discusses, especially the RCC/Protestants threads, a great deal. The rest I will state in a PM.

Thank you.

PS: I cannot seem to get that song off my thoughts: ... gam gam style; heeey ...." lol!
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 8:18pm On Aug 15, 2014
alexleo: Following...... and I really enjoy what I'm seeing here. Will make contribution if any much later. Still very busy since this week. God bless the presenters. Amen.

@DrummaBoy, Goshen360 and presenters, are we free to post any of the prentations elsewhere or print it and share to people? That's my question for now.
I believe the answer should be yes.

Only that ethically you should provide the link from where you copied it from.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 8:11pm On Aug 15, 2014
Christianity EtcRe: Is It A Sin If I Spend My Tithe For This Month And Pay Back The Next Month? by DrummaBoy(m): 4:52pm On Aug 15, 2014
Godmystrength: haba!! adding to the already long post.
When i finish reading, i will let you know. Thanks
lol.

Forgive my importunity.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
Thank you Alwaystrue for your presentation and for keeping within the limits of our "laws".

*edited*
Christianity EtcRe: Is It A Sin If I Spend My Tithe For This Month And Pay Back The Next Month? by DrummaBoy(m): 9:33am On Aug 15, 2014
Godmystrength: okay
Permit me to add.

That post of mine is a tract. It is the shortest analysis on tithes you can find anywhere. Truth is that biblical truths are not found on the surface; they are found by studious searching. The reason why deception abound in society is because people love quick fixes; short cut to breakthrough; etc. Scriptures does not encourage this.

At the end of the text, I supplied a few websites on the tithe subject. I studied them and others to come to my conclusion on tithe. I studied pro tithe text too. The anti tithe ones convinced me.

I encourage you to do the same.
Christianity EtcRe: Is It A Sin If I Spend My Tithe For This Month And Pay Back The Next Month? by DrummaBoy(m): 9:32pm On Aug 14, 2014
Godmystrength: @DrummaBoy- to be honest, i didn't read your earlier post because it was too long. when i saw it, i promised to read later and i forgot. I asked what i wanted to know and i got my answer o. maybe sometime later i can read up what you typed.
When you have read the text, we can talk.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 6:38pm On Aug 14, 2014
@Yooguyz

This is my personal observation, it doesn't reflect the view of the organizers as one:

1. The presentation on abortion was excellent. Well researched, etc.

2. But the topic indicated social issues, plural, not just one issue. I would have loved a situation where you wrote short notes on each of the others you listed, eg sexism, gays, etc. You could then go on to make abortion the main discuss.

3. If its not too much trouble, you could still write short notes on the others issues you listed.

In all, its a good write up and I am grateful to you for helping us see the gospel in this light: social matters.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
@All Presenters/Teachers

I request that you indicate when you have finished your presentation.

We should also take advantage of the two or three posting the convention permits us so presentations do not appear too long.

Let's remain in the 4000 words max please.

Thank you.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 2:26pm On Aug 14, 2014
Apologies.

Yooguyz has requested permission to make his presentation at 4pm. I have granted his request.

Please forbear with the little set back.
Christianity EtcRe: The Making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014 by DrummaBoy(op): 2:21pm On Aug 14, 2014
Yooguyz: Drummaboy, Goshen360 please am very busy at the moment, I would appreciate it if my presentation time is moved from 2:00 to 4:00. Thanks in anticipation of your response.
This is coming rather late. This is the reason the timetable was released early enough. So that presenters can plan their time and request a change if need be.

We however have no other choice than to grant your request. Please ensure your posting is 4pm as you requested.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m): 11:41am On Aug 14, 2014
Thank you MrAnony1 for the presentation and for keeping to time. I believe God that this has set a good precedence for all other presentations.

To God be all the praise.
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
OPENING PRAYER:

Father, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. We thank you for yet another Grace Convention.

We commit everything we shall be doing at the convention: the teachings, the contributions, the questions, etc, to your hands, asking that you will use everything to bring your good pleasure to pass in our lives.

We pray that everything that shall be discussed in the convention will only help increase the course of your kingdom.

We ask that those who are not saved, who do not know Jesus as Lord and Savior, by reading the various presentation will come unto living faith in Christ, breaking forth into a new relationship of Sonship with you.

We ask that as many that are Christians and are lacking in an experiential power of your grace, will come to know this practically.

We ask these and lots more through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

AMEN!

HYMN

debosky: Hymns before the message:

All creatures of our God and King
Lift up your voice and with us sing,
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Thou burning sun with golden beam,
Thou silver moon with softer gleam!

Refrain

O praise Him! O praise Him!
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!

Thou rushing wind that art so strong
Ye clouds that sail in Heaven along,
O praise Him! Alleluia!
Thou rising moon, in praise rejoice,
Ye lights of evening, find a voice!

Refrain

Thou flowing water, pure and clear,
Make music for thy Lord to hear,
O praise Him! Alleluia!
Thou fire so masterful and bright,
That givest man both warmth and light.

Refrain

Dear mother earth, who day by day
Unfoldest blessings on our way,
O praise Him! Alleluia!
The flowers and fruits that in thee grow,
Let them His glory also show.

Refrain

And all ye men of tender heart,
Forgiving others, take your part,
O sing ye! Alleluia!
Ye who long pain and sorrow bear,
Praise God and on Him cast your care!

Refrain

And thou most kind and gentle Death,
Waiting to hush our latest breath,
O praise Him! Alleluia!
Thou leadest home the child of God,
And Christ our Lord the way hath trod.

Refrain

Let all things their Creator bless,
And worship Him in humbleness,
O praise Him! Alleluia!
Praise, praise the Father, praise the Son,
And praise the Spirit, Three in One!

Refrain
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
We indeed welcome all to the convention thread, as we proceed I request that we glean a word of wisdom from a post by alexleo in the making of the convention thread:

alexleo: I personally look forward to the presentations and pray that God will use the presenters in a mighty way. I also want to plead with those who refused to be part of this based on the long drawn battle over some differences in our biblical teachings to pls have a rethink and participate in this conference by contributing to presentations.

There is time for everything. Time to disagree and time to agree. i think this is time to agree and make successful input in this conference. Those who feel offended in anyway should forgive and move forward. We are still brethren irrespective of our differences. God bless us all. Amen.

www.nairaland.com/1826244/making-grace-convention-2014-begins
Christianity EtcRe: E-Grace Convention 20-14 by DrummaBoy(m):
[size=20pt] RULES FOR THE CONVENTION: For Presenters and Audience[/size]


1. Presentations should occupy only two or three posts with minimum of 2000 words and max 4000.

2. We encourage a neat presentation for ease of readability. If possible employing bold, italics, coloring and other Nairaland editing features for aesthetics and enhance readership.

3. edited.

4. Audience are encouraged to present their questions in a concise and straight to the point manner for a presenter only after a presenter has made his/her presentation.

5. Audience are not to ask presenters "leading" questions which are designed to ridicule a presenter. A presenter may decline to answer a question if they so wish

6. Goshen360 and DrummaBoy shall act as moderators to ensure order and to protect presenters from attacks.

7. Use of foul languages are prohibited on the convention thread. All nairaland forum rules subsist here too.

8. Only individuals with monickers that have been nominated and have accepted their nominations on this thread are permitted to make presentation on the topics of the convention or in other topic. Anyone who flaunts this rule shall banned.

9. The audience are advised to refrain from posting in between the posts of a presentation by participant. Anyone who breeches this rule will have his comment hidden. They however have full liberty to comment or ask questions after the presentation has been made.

10. Audience are enjoined not to "dissect" presentations by commenting on every line of a presentation, after quoting them, that is common with nairalanders. Anyone who does this shall be banned. You may quote an aspect of a presentation only with the aim of asking a question or making a point.

[size=20pt]TIME TABLE FOR GRACE CONVENTION 2014[/size]

[size=16pt]Thursday, 14th August @9.00am[/size]
(Genesis): The New Creation in Christ & our inheritance - MrAnony1
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14#25465060

[size=16pt]Thursday, 14th August @2.00pm[/size]
(Social Issues): The Christian and his Environment - Yooguyz
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14#25475935

[size=16pt]Thursday, 14th August @ 6.00pm[/size]
(Power of the Spirit): The Power of the Holy Spirit in Christian Living - trustman
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14#25478150


[size=16pt]Friday, 15th August @ 9.00am[/size]
(Grace 1): The Demands of the Law and the Supply of the grace of God - Alwaystrue
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/1#25492791

[size=16pt]Friday, 15th August @ 2.00pm[/size]
(Unity/Ecumenism): Towards a United Christian Voice on Nairaland and Elsewhere - Ihedinobi2
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/1#25500037

[size=16pt]Friday, 15th August @ 6.00pm[/size]
(Church History): Where Did We Come From and Where are We Headed? - BabaGnoni
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/2#25506104

[size=16pt]Saturday, 16th August @ 9.00am[/size]
(Christian Ministry): The Ministry, Life and the Message - PastorOluT
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/3#25523321

[size=16pt]Saturday, 16th August @ 2.00pm[/size]
(Nigeria): An Emerging Nigeria via the Gospel - Striktlymi
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/3#25525180

[size=16pt]Saturday, 16th August @ 6.00pm[/size]
(Grace 2): The wonders of God's Grace - MarkMiwerds
https://www.nairaland.com/1856979/e-grace-convention-20-14/3#25530159

Link to 2013 GRACE CONVENTION: https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013
Christianity EtcRe: The Making of GRACE CONVENTION 2014 by DrummaBoy(op): 10:57pm On Aug 13, 2014
*this thread is strangely silent. Where is everybody? lol*

In a few hours the convention begins.

I trust all our presenters are ready for us.

Tomorrow's presentations are by:

MrAnony1
Yooguyz
trustman

I believe you guys have put finishing touches on your presentations.

Last year we had issues with a few presenters who we had to be running around to remind(!) that it was their time to present.

It won't happen this time. Whoever refuses to fill up his time slot, will be left to himself. Thank God we didn't choose the presenters.

I am simply asking our presenters to be responsible enough to fulfill their duties since they all accepted their nominations willingly.

Thank you all for accepting Goshen360 and myself as your moderators (not one person opposed it).

Thank you for buying into the idea of a Christian convention and helping in the making of Grace Convention 2014.

God bless you.

I use this medium to wish everyone a blessed convention 2014.
Christianity EtcRe: The Truth on Tithes & Offerings Part 2. by DrummaBoy(m): 6:57pm On Aug 13, 2014
^^^

[size=16pt]SHOULD YOU TITHE TODAY?[/size]

The answer to the title of this tract is “No” and we shall be examining “why” in the remainder of the tract. The subject of whether Christians are to tithe or not to tithe is a deeply contentious one today, and obviously so because it involves money. This tract shall be offering biblical proofs to the thesis that “Christians are not obligated to tithe today”.

The Biblical Tithe

When we hear the word “tithe” today, our minds are drawn to the concept of 10% of a person’s income. Unfortunately, this is not the definition the bible offers for the tithe. In fact from Genesis to Revelation there is no account of anyone giving a tithe of his income to anybody; neither was the tithe money in the bible, even though there are ample evidences to show that money was being used since the days of Abraham. The word “tithe” had been mentioned in the story of Abraham and Jacob in the book of Genesis, but it was not until Leviticus 27:30-32 would we find something close to a definition for the tithe.

30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD… 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

The tithe is defined here to be of the “seed of the land”, “fruit of the tree” and tenth of the herd. The biblical tithes were agricultural products or food, they were never money. This so called definition for the tithe is accepted by many because Leviticus 27 is the first time in the bible God would mention the word “tithe” and while mentioning it, he describes it as holy and he tells us what it consisted of.

Later in other books of Moses, we find passages of scriptures that help us to comprehend the biblical tithe better. Numbers 18:20-28, Deuteronomy 14:22-29 and Deuteronomy 26:12-15, showed us that the biblical tithes were a tenth of the agricultural products Israel harvested off the holy land God had given them. The tithes were to be given to the Levites. Levi was a tribe in Israel God had separated to serve him and who had no inheritance in Israel; the tithe was their inheritance. In the process, the Levitical tribe, that included the Aaronic priests, were the people involved in the administration of the civil and the religious life of the nation of Israel. The tithes became something like a system of taxation with which the Levitical tribe was provided for as they served the people. The aforementioned scriptures also showed that the tithes were given to the poor, the widows, the orphans and the stranger. Therefore this class of people was exempted from tithing. At other times, the tithe was even eaten by the tither himself. Every scripture in the bible that referred to tithes showed that the tithe was food. When God mentioned the bringing of tithes in Malachi 3:10, he also said “that there might be meat (food) in my house”. When Jesus mentioned the tithe in Matthew 23:23, he enumerated “mints, anise and cumin”. These were spices for food.

Also, the injunction to tithe under Moses was part of the Mosaic laws that were done away with through the sacrificial works our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, on the cross (Romans 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Hebrew 8:13). If we must tithe today, we should also keep every other aspect of the laws of Moses (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10 ). If this is not practical, then it is simply not practical to tithe today.

Finally, it is not particularly correct to ask Christians to tithe because Abraham tithed. Abraham tithed from war spoils and not from his possessions or income. And it is clear from scriptures that we are called to imitate Abraham's faith and not every detail of his life - some of which were not exactly exemplary (Genesis 12:11-13 ; Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:7). Abraham also circumcised his sons, following a direct instruction from God in Genesis 17, but by the time of the New Testament, Jesus' apostles show us that circumcision was not a New Testament obligation (Acts 15; Galatians 5:3-4; Colossians 2:16-17; Philippians 3:3).


Tithing and the Gospel

The doctrine and practice of tithing is threatening the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ is shown clearly in the New Testament to be a free gospel (Romans 8:32; 2Peter 1:3). The idea that salvation or any gift of God can be purchased is strongly repudiated in the bible (Acts 8:20). Unfortunately, this is the impression that modern day practice of tithing is giving the world. There are many Christian churches today that make tithing compulsory. They go to the extent of saying that people cannot be members of churches except they are “faithful” tithers. Apart from the fact that such a position is foreign to scripture, it also betrays the central truth of the bible that our salvation is no longer fully paid; rather, it gives the impression that there are things we must add to it. In the days of the bible some thought to add good works to their salvation; in our days pastors are asking us to add tithing to our salvation.

Despite the abuse the gospel of Jesus Christ has suffered in the hands of false teachers, its basic content remain unchanged. Jesus Christ died on the cross for all men so as to save men from sin. All that is required to enjoy the blessings of the cross is for the individual to understand this truth and to repent of his/her sins and believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. By believing in him you will be saved. God does not require a penny from you to be saved; neither does he demand a kobo from you to keep you safe. The salvation that Jesus Christ purchased for the world has been fully paid for, we need not add a tithe, a firstfuit, pledges, a giving, or any kind of good works to make it complete. The salvation you receive by faith is a complete one (Colossians 2:10). All that God requires of you is to repent and believe. I trust that if anyone reading this tract is not saved, they would take advantage of this free offer of salvation. And for those who might need further understanding on the subject of salvation, you can refer to the contact address below this tract.

Christian Work Ethics

The leading lie that is sold to people about the need to tithe is that tithing is a means to financial prosperity. People are told to tithe to either secure their finances or to break the stranglehold of poverty. Those who teach this doctrine resort to Malachi 3:8-12 and interpret God's saying he would send a blessing, following the act of tithing, as God promising prosperity for tithing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Malachi 3:8-12, in its literal form, is a message to Jews and not to Christians and this is the reason why despite years of tithing, many Christians are yet to see these blessings that have been promised. What secures prosperity for Christians is not tithing but plain hard work. The New Testament teaches that we should work so we may eat (2Thessalonians 3:7-10) and it encourages the strong to work and provide for the weak (Acts 20:33-35). God is not a magician and he does not do money doubling. Nations who are godless but prosperous today got to that point by adhering to basic Christian work ethics, and not by tithing. After we have done what we ought to do, the Christian might then call upon God to bless the works of his hands and God is certain to do this. Giving to get or tithing is not a Christian means to financial prosperity.

Christian Giving

The laws of Moses that enacted tithing were a shadow of things to come, which is the New Testament Christian life (Heb 8:5). Therefore Malachi 3:10, an extension of the Mosaic law, was pointing the church to a spiritual lesson.

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies, "I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! (NLT)

The Christian's body is the temple of God today (I Corinthian 6:19; Ephesians 6:22). The temple which was a copy or shadow of something to come has been made perfect in our body through Christ. Therefore the storehouse is not in any church building made by hand. It is in us; in our body.

Giving help to a brother or sister who is in need means bringing food (or tithe) into the storehouse of God. That is why God is pleased with sharing among brethren (Heb 13:16) and that is why sharing was a major feature of the early church (Acts 4:32; 2Corinthians 8:1-2). This is why our Christ, the High priest who receives tithe(gifts) in his temple(our body) said, "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me." This is how to give to God through Christ.

Take your tithe or 5%, 20%, 60%, etc of your income cheerfully to the true storehouse of God (people in need) and fill it. Whosoever it is. Mandating anyone to PAY tithe in the church is refusing to understand the true spiritual lesson that Malachi 3 wishes to teach us. There is no greater commandment than these: Love the LORD your God and love your neighbour as yourself, Mark 12:30-31.

Further Study

A tract like this cannot contain everything that needs to be known about the biblical tithe. I therefore refer the readers to some readily available materials on the internet for you to study more on the biblical tithes:

1. Gary J. Arnolds works on www.tithing101.com
2. Matthew E. Nerramore’s works: www.tekoapublishing.com.
3. Dr. Russel Kelly whose PHD theological thesis was on tithing: www.tithing-russkelly.com

Contact Address:

(As shall be agreed by the publishers of the tract)

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