₦airaland Forum

frosbel,

When art thou finishing the story

Evening Moderator

I sent a PM to you regarding the GRACE CONVENTION 2014 to kick off tomorrow. I believe you received it.

However, my co moderator for the convention, Goshen360, was caught in a spam bot and will not be released until tomorrow 7:53am. He is supposed to open the Convention thread at 8:00am!
Please, sir, can you unban him so that we can be available for the convention fully, without hitches tomorrow.

Here is the thread and page the ban took place:

www.nairaland.com/1826244/24-hours-grace-convention-2014/11

Thank you.

Obinoscopy: Welldone DrummaBoy. The Lord is your strength.

Thank you very much.

I remember this monicker from the family section debates sometimes ago... or is the education section?

When the OP started the discuss by showing that prayer was a mystery, it got my attention bc that's my position on prayers too. But when he tried to "solve" this mystery by suggesting that it our duty to "command God" or to make earth teach heaven what it must do, he lost me.

Indeed prayer is a mystery and we ought to leave it at that. Even the Son of God on earth did not receive all that he requested for: remember Gethsemane and that admonision in Hebrew that Jesus learnt obedience by the things he suffered? Its a wonderful thing when we pray and answer comes; we should be thankful. When we pray and there are no answers, we should trust God. When we pray and there is a delay, we should mix our trust with patience, while not forgetting to remain grateful.

When, however, we turn God to the One we must command, we make him into an idol and not the Sovereign Being that he truly is. When we find scriptures like "command ye me..." in the OT, we must use scripture to interpret scriptures or we run foul of teaching heresies. How many times did we hear Jesus and the apostles command God? Scriptures said Jesus offered up loud cries to the One able to save him. Paul told us how he begged God to save his companions from illness and God showed him mercy. These men were far from commanding God.

Let's limit prayer to the mystery that it truly is and let's not try to explain it away with mans wisdom. Let's draw near Gods throne with confidence, and let's believe him that regardless of his response, Gods desire for is anchored on the infinite love of the divine for the saints brought about by grace through Jesus Christ.

...that seem to be "hunting" me now. I said "Satan has a way of restoring Jewish practices to Christendom or religion to make be preoccupied with them rather than server God in Spirit and truth. In the time of Jesus, it was sabbath. In the days of Paul it was the question of circumcision. In our day it is tithing."

Reading Ezekiel 20 recently, I was astounded at how many times God was crossed with Israel for defiling the Sabbath. But by the time Jesus will come hear his opinion on the issue of sabbath observance in Matthew 12

*1* At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

*2* But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

*3* But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

*4* How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

*5* Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

*6* But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

*7* But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

*8* For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Note verse 2 and 7. The Pharisee say Jesus disciples did wrong. Jesus said they should not condemn the guiltless. That he himself was Lord of the Sabbath.

In Paul epistles we learn what this means: Christ has delivered us from the curse of the law. We are guiltless even when we do not observe seeming Jewish commands like tithing, sabbath and circumcision: Gal 3:13; Rom 10:4; Col 2:16.

My friend, do not let anyone condemn you as guilty when you do not tithe, for you are guiltless.

Like Jesus has enumerated: the Christians concern with the law is mercy not sacrifice. We show mercy when we learn to love our neighbours and not when we observe religious practices.

I hope my treatise is not a waste.

Godmystrength:

*[[Gal 3:13]] KJV* Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

In addition to what pickabeau1 has said, OP, I must tell you that you fear to learn the truth. Some of us who are labelled "anti tithers" told you when you opened this thread that you were not under any obligation to tithe, you kept insisting that that was not what you wanted to hear. That you wanted to know what happens if you owed your tithe. unfortunately no one could answer you bc the bible contains no such instruction. There is no where Gentiles are instructed to tithe in the bible. There is no where anyone tithed an income. So you cannot find one place on what happens to tithes owed.

Unfortunately you sort what your itchy ears wanted to hear and found it not.

Recently I made a statement on tithes..

spyglaxx: Widows mite

Hello, please can you update the flyer you designed for the convention with the names of presenters and the date of the convention?

Thanks.

MrAnony1: Will a new thread be opened for the Convention or will it be on this thread?

A new thread will be opened for it on the morning, 8:00am, of the convention by Goshen360. The link will be provided here.

vision2050: Thank you. not a verse in New testament say something about giving First fruits firstfruits" is used in
the New Testament, it does not refer to giving, whether
to the Temple or the church. It acts as a metaphor to
mean those who experience God's blessing first or in a
special way. why the pastor preach the law of Moses when Jesus have Fulfilled Rom 10:4. I tired ooo

You are welcome.

STAND FAST NOW IN THE LIBERTY WHEREWITH CHRIST HATH MADE THEE FREE AND DO NOT BE ENTANGLED WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE - Galatians 5:1

^^^

We invite comments on the three posts on the Convention above.

[size=20pt] RULES FOR THE CONVENTION: For Presenters and Audience[/size]


1. Presentations should occupy only two or three posts with minimum of 2000 words and max 4000.

2. We encourage a neat presentation for ease of readability. If possible employing bold, italics, coloring and other Nairaland editing features for aesthetics and enhance readership.

3. edited.

4. Audience are encouraged to present their questions in a concise and straight to the point manner for a presenter only after a presenter has made his/her presentation.

5. Audience are not to ask presenters "leading" questions which are designed to ridicule a presenter. A presenter may decline to answer a question if they so wish

6. Goshen360 and DrummaBoy shall act as moderators to ensure order and to protect presenters from attacks.

7. Use of foul languages are prohibited on the convention thread. All nairaland forum rules subsist here too.

8. Only individuals with monickers that have been nominated and have accepted their nominations on this thread are permitted to make presentation on the topics of the convention or in other topic. Anyone who flaunts this rule shall banned.

9. The audience are advised to refrain from posting in between the posts of a presentation by participant. Anyone who breeches this rule will have his comment hidden. They however have full liberty to comment or ask questions after the presentation has been made.

10. Audience are enjoined not to "dissect" presentations by commenting on every line of a presentation, after quoting them, that is common with nairalanders. Anyone who does this shall be banned. You may quote an aspect of a presentation only with the aim of asking a question or making a point.

[size=20pt]TIME TABLE FOR GRACE CONVENTION 2014[/size]

[size=16pt]Thursday, 14th August @9.00am[/size]
(Genesis): The New Creation in Christ & our inheritance - MrAnony1

[size=16pt]Thursday, 14th August @2.00pm[/size]
(Social Issues): The Christian and his Environment - Yooguyz

[size=16pt]Thursday, 14th August @ 6.00pm[/size]
(Power of the Spirit): The Power of the Holy Spirit in Christian Living - trustman


[size=16pt]Friday, 15th August @ 9.00am[/size]
(Grace 1): The Demands of the Law and the Supply of the grace of God - Alwaystrue

[size=16pt]Friday, 15th August @ 2.00pm[/size]
(Unity/Ecumenism): Towards a United Christian Voice on Nairaland and Elsewhere - Ihedinobi2

[size=16pt]Friday, 15th August @ 6.00pm[/size]
(Church History): Where Did We Come From and Where are We Headed? - BabaGnoni


[size=16pt]Saturday, 16th August @ 9.00am[/size]
(Christian Ministry): The Ministry, Life and the Message - PastorOluT

[size=16pt]Saturday, 16th August @ 2.00pm[/size]
(Nigeria): An Emerging Nigeria via the Gospel - Striktlymi

[size=16pt]Saturday, 16th August @ 6.00pm[/size]
(Grace 2): The wonders of God's Grace - MarkMiwerds

[size=20pt]TOWARDS GRACE CONVENTION 2014[/size]

At exactly 8.00am Nigerian time on Thursday 14th August 2014, Goshen360 shall be opening a new thread for the convention proper. Links to the thread will be provided here.

The first paper for the convention shall be delivered at 9.00am. We encourage participants to study the timetable and ensure that they post their papers at the exact time they are scheduled for it. For those outside Nigeria, we request that you find the exact time for your posting in regards to your location. Only one participant had requested a specially scheduled time. It is assumed that the scheduled time by the organizers will be OK with other participants.

Between 8 and 9am on Thursday, and following the opening remarks by Goshen360, we invite well wishes, prayers, hymns, etc, to precede the presentation that morning. We however request that you cease posting at 9am to allow the first presenter to make his presentation.

We welcome questions that can be directed at the presenter. We request that the questions be such that will add to the general tenure of discussion on the convention. The next presentation will be 2:00pm. So the audience will have ample time to ask questions and make comments.

That's fine with me.

Bye.

^^^

Sorry, while I read your post I cannot respond to it. I believe I have gone past this level of piecemeal bit by bit responses that is common with nairalanders. I request a more robust rejoinder.

You may return to the above post and craft it into one post and then the discission will continue.

OK, please, it's a simple request.

Orikinla

That's a good testimony to the blessing of human kindness.

I remember where I once worked, it was a Muslim who put me through the core lessons there. Something others were reluctant to do.

Religion, Christianity or Islam, benefit no one. A genuine heart of love for humanity is what does. This is the message of the gospel but unfortunately too many Christians fail to live it; while God use Muslims to continue to remind us.

PastorKun: Since you don't produce any agric product and you are not under the Jewish law, the first fruit doctrine does not apply to you.

vision2050: . Lev 23:10 say we should give it to priest not levite 2. I earn salary how could I pay my first fruit? because u said none of them pay it as come or salary. Or first fruit is meant for farmers alone?

Just as Pastor Kun has said, you are not obligated to give a firstfruit any longer.

This is the only condition for which you could give a firstfruit:

#You were born a Jew in ancient Israel before Jesus coming

#You were a farmer in that time and had harvested your first set of crops as indicated in Leviticus 23.

Even a born again Jew living in present Israel need not give firstfruits as Christ's death has a abolished all the laws of Moses - Romans 10:4.

Other ceremonial laws abrogated and no longer binding on Christians are:

Sabbath

Tithing

Circumcision

Religious Feasts observance like New Moon, Pentecost's, etc.

And all 613 laws of Moses.

Now what do you do with this salary of your? My recommendation:

Go to KFC and grab a good meal. Spoil yourself. lol. Get some nice clothing; look good. Just kidding...

Let God lead you on how to spend your money. Period.

Some worthwhile recommendations:

Some individual hand over their first salaries to their parents to honor them and to say thank you. I didn't do this. But if I have such opportunity, I do not think its a bad idea.

Put aside a savings and make it regular.

Plan a regular financial regime for each month and endeavor to follow it.

Set aside a portion to support a Christian ministry like church, orphanage, missionary endeavors, etc.

Bless your siblings.

Permit God to lead you in your spending.

There is a close relation BTW spirituality and spending money. A regime of tithing and firstfruit encourage religion. Allowing Gods Spirit to teach you how to spend money, leads to greater spiritual sensitivity.

My take.

The question that is being sort to be answered here is whether the church practices democracy. And in a case where this not, should they?

The straight forward answer is "No". The church does not practice democracy. I will however want to say that if the church does not practice democracy, should the church allow for autocracy then? Or should church allow for a situation, as in the days of Moses as the OP has shown, where one man leads an organized body of believers? The answer is equally "no".

When we speak of the church of God which Jesus Christ died for, we are speaking of a group of born again people united in purpose with or without a building. In this situation, Jesus Christ is the head of that church. Whatever might detracts from the clear view of Christ's headship should be discouraged. It is erroneous to resort to Moses to get an example of what the church is meant to be. Moses, like Christ after him, where two distinct circumstances permitted by God for specific purposes. After them both, it's clear that God desires a different manner of government in his church. When the people sort for a king from Samuel, a careful observer will realize that God preferred for Himself to rule the people directly. A king will detract from this. But he permitted it to their hurt. However, as we come into the New Testament, we begin to see an example of church government as God originally intended.

In Acts 15, a doctrinal dispute erupted that must be settled. The first ever church council was conveyed and the result of the meeting gives us an idea of who were the leaders. Paul and Barnabas spoke. The Judaizers spoke. Peter and James spoke. This James was the brother of Jesus. He was not an apostle in a strict sense. By his conclusion we could tell that there was a body of elders speaking, while he, James, was a mere spokesman. Remember his words "It seem good to the Holy Ghost and to us..." The decision was a collective one and not a one man show. When Paul wrote his Pastoral epistles, he encouraged the enactment of a body of elders to lead the churches. An apostolic authority may have planted the church, but a body of elders must lead the church. So much so that the Pastor should answer to these men. In John epistles, he condemned a man who was running a church with the "GO" style - Diothrephes, saying Christians should not emulate such.

Having at the back of our minds what the NT says about elders leading a church, how do we then regard the things going on in our churches today?

I am sorry to say but the system of one man leading a church that pervade much of Christianity today is unscriptural. A church is a body of people. Such a body should be spiritual enough to elect (not in a democratic sense) a number of men (not women) to lead them. If it happens that one man comes up with a vision to lead an assembly, that man must appoint elders to work with him. These men, like when the deacons where chosen in Acts, must be men of faith and of the Spirit. All of them should be answerable to each others. The church could elect for a constitution; they may not. But a situation where one man is seen as the main figure: GO, GS, SO, etc, should be discouraged. It blurs the sight of Christ being Lord and should not be encouraged. A group of elders like this should be praying men, so that when decisions are made from proposed ideas, it would have the mark of God's Spirit on it. The body of elders may appoint a Pastor; they may choose not to. But the fact that the buck stops at the feet of a group of godly men, ensures the cases of leadership tyranny that run riot today do not occur. In a rare case where one man leading a fellowship does not have a body of elders to work with yet, that man should answer to another body of elders elsewhere until one is set up.

The case of Korah's rebellion should not be used as a justification for the one man system of church government. Moses, in the OT, typified a type of Christ or God. Korah's action was a clear rebellion against God. Moses was not autocratic; he was meek and those men sort to take advantage of this. God judged it.

Does this mean that Christians cannot express dissenting views under a body of elders? No. If a believer or group of believers in church have a dissenting view, they should be permitted to express it in private with the elders. The body of elders can listen to their views and they should sit down together like brethren and discuss it. I can assure you, that no ground will swallow any dissenter today in the church like Korah The elders might then decide on the views. If they disagree with this person or group, they should let this known to people like brethren will do. If the dissension continues, the group can be requested to leave the fellowship.

What must be protected at all cost in church, is freedom and not democracy. The church should be a place where people are accountable to each other. Elder or not, there should be a sense of equality among brethren. So the question of democracy should not come up at all. God's people should be led by a body of elders: men of faith and of the Spirit who are obviously led by God. When God leads a church, the tendency for dissension will be reduced. People usually dissent when there are apparent abuses that come as a result of oppression. I make bold to say that God is the author of some of these dissensions to draw the church's attention to it's complacency. Jesus is the head of his church and he has full liberty to express himself through anyone, including a dissenter. God's word, under the auspices of a group of godly elders, should be the final arbiter as it was in Acts 15.

Let me know whatever disagreement you mat have with the above.

I believe I have sometimes for the question you have raised on this thread. I will attend to it soon. But please I request civility in the discussion. Anything close to childish tantrums, snide remarks, etc, will occasion my exit. And I will abide by those basic rules too.

Ubenedictus: what rule guides the audience when they disagree with the speaker and wish to make their differing points known.

Sorry, I didn't see this until now.

The rules indicate that the audience are to allow the presenter complete his presentation before questions or comments can be made. If they infringe on this, the comment will be hidden and the person banned for 24hours.

If an audience disagree with a presenter, he should present his objection in a clear and straight to the point manner after the presenter has completed his paper. The audience is not to insult or disparage any presenter, the moderator or anyone else on the thread. The thread is expected to be free of derogatory comments, the way this one has been. In case this ever happens, the central moderators will wield the stick.

So the audience can make differing opinions but in a respectful and mature manner.

Of course, by the time the convention is concluded, and the thread makes front page, it begins free-for-all; monitoring and convention rules will be lowered by then; save for nl posting rules.

ProphetUdeme: emmyskies did u also read this true story.. It is real and it shows everything that satan has been doing to these blindlukewarm christians in the spiritual realm. Read it its very edifying http://www.mcreveil.org/Anglais/witchcraft/PstJonas_en02.html

I saw in your extra biblical revelation that Satan is the one moving people not give tithes and offering.

Very convenient.

How does one help an individual like you?

Okay. Who is responsible for this situations: Satan or God?

A church that collects tithes and offerings but disregards the needs of the poor and needy in its midst.

A church leader who spends church funds to build himself houses, buy private jet and uses church funds to junk jet around the world.

A church leader that used church funds to bribe young ladies in church to sleep with him.

A church that spends funds on its leaders alone but refuse to support missionaries.

A church where Pastors refuse to work with their hands but continue to hoodwink people into tithing.

If those situation are too difficult for you to understand and answer, another question: What do you, prophet Udeme, for for a living?

Tithes thoroughly debated on nairaland:

www.nairaland.com/1548047/theological-discuss-tithing-rhymeyjohn-image123

My own question about tithes answered here:

www.nairaland.com/1239719/questions-frosbel-tithing

The mother of all tithe thread, running over 100 paged now:

www.nairaland.com/1189741/tithes-offerings

Linking Tithing to the errors of Word of Faith here:

www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#24975239

Hundreds of other threads on tithes can be searched on nl or by following links on those threads above. Study, pray, trust God and do what you think is the right thing.

While MarkMiwerds might be right in regards to who was actually failing to bring the tithes to the storehouse, I think such technicalities should be reserved for theologians. Truth is that I have never been able to understand why it is the Levite's or the priests that were failing in duty. I feel that understanding the Malachi 3 scripture as the whole nation of Israel failing to bring tithes to the storehouse is sufficient for the ordinary man to understand. This does not remove from the fact that Malach 3:8-12 is a message to the Jewish church not the Christian Church.

MarkMiwerds and BabaGnoni is there any danger in simply believing that those who refused to remit the tithes were all the Jewish nation and not just Levites or priests?

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F10: Name-a-Seed or Seed Faith doctrine[/size]

Jim Baker in his post prison books "I was Wrong" and "Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse" only fell short of mentioning "Word of Faith" in his texts. Everything he wrote against in those two books were carefully crafted to reveal the errors in the faith movement. Having been a faith teacher himself, the world listened to his testimony. Baker stated everything that was wrong with the Prosperity Gospel. He spoke of how heart broken he became when in a trip to Singapore, post prison, he discovered that the Singaporeans had taken "his" former gospel to a crass level. I was almost going to ask him to visit Ibadan/Nigeria and he would faint from heart break. Those two books are worthy reads.

One incident from the book is worth mentioning. It was a dream he had in prison. A man approached him - intuitively he knew he was Jesus. The man took out a slice from his own eye and placed it on Baker's telling him he wanted him to see as he sees. When he woke up, he grabbed a bible and began reading only the words of Jesus with the aid of a red lettered bible. He said he discovered that Jesus said nothing good about money in the whole of the NT. In the appendix of "Prosperity..." he listed some of those scriptures. For me that was instructive.

Now coming to the matter of Seed Faith, he explained that the thing could be likened to the greed of Gehazi, Elisha's servant. He said the end result is always leprosy. He exemplified this using an evangelist that used to minister on his Cable TV station. The man would minister "powerfully" and end it all with fund raising. Their usual practice; just that the manner this evangelist went about his made even Baker cringe. This evangelist, whom he didn't name, is today dead. Died of modern day leprosy - AIDS.

When Jesus said a man cannot serve two Masters; he would either love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and Mammon at the same time, he knew exactly what he was saying and our Master practiced it: Jesus made a thief his treasurer. I am not sure many churches want to emulate that aspect of Christ likeness. But it unveils for us the attitude the Master had towards money. The question we need to ask at this junction is this: at what point did money replace devotion to God in churches, especially WOF churches?

Possibly from the very beginning.

Acts 8 records a man called Simon a magician, who was said to be a "great power of God" (sound like a "great man of God" to me). He had won the devotion of the people of Samaria, only for Philip to come along and steal the show. When the apostles came to strengthen the new disciples in this city, Simon approaches Peter and offers him cash for the anointing. Peter promptly rebukes him, explaining his heart condition as wicked. If Simon had succeeded in purchasing the anonting, he would have gone unto selling it; continuing a business he knew so well. This is the root of men merchandizing the gospel and the heart that birth the seed faith business.

Having been closely associated with the WOF movement for no less than 15 years, I can say without a shadow of doubt that WOF does ministry wholely and solely for GAIN. I confess that there are a few honest ones amongst them but the overwhelming majority end up corrupting even these ones. Making it seem as if this ministry of money is OK. Two incidences will help depict this: A lady minister is ministering in this church I am in. After a very heart warming message. She begin to solicit for funds for the church. The Pastor quickly approach her and informs her through whisper in the ears to desist. She does so reluctantly. A year or so after, an Ilorin "great MOG" also comes to minister. He informs the church that money must be collected after his preaching "by God's leading" in defiance to the church's position that had been well conveyed to him. The poor pastor that stopped the first one, could not stop the second. Yours truly might have been the only person in the whole church that day that didn't give a seed faith. A supposed leading from God to collect money outweighed a well thought out church position not to merchandise the gospel.

I am glad that trustman has very correctly likened Seed Faith to 16th century indulgence in the days of Luther. The only difference is that the people of those days were more spiritually than today's Christians. They gave indulgence for spiritual things (though lies) that included remission of sins, exit from purgatory and entrance to heaven. Modern day indulgence, ie Seed Faith, promises physical things only. Its a pity. Oral Roberts taught WOF Seed Faith. He is the father of the doctrine and earliest propagator. Oral Roberts is modern day Johann Tetzel. Oral Roberts must however be credited for setting up the ORU. Where in 1981 its theological department produced a thesis by one D. R. McConnell that is today the soundest research ever done on the whole Word of Faith movement. Christianity owes it to Bro McConnell for this work of research that will later be published as a book under the title "A Different Gospel". I am yet to find a single paper on the errors of WOF that does not quote this book.

When did the centre focus of gospel preaching shift from Jesus Christ to the money ostensibly needed to propagate it? When did the central theme of scripture shift from the cross of the Messiah to Seed Faith; so much so that WOF teaches us that God was practicing Seed Faith when Jesus died on the cross? When did the gospel cease to be free? When did the gospel become so expensive to propagate? When did results replace faith in Christendom? When did Christians start to measure spirituality by the abundance of things they possess? When did godliness and gain become synonymous? When and how did Seed Faith become the gospel of Jesus Christ? These are questions even the greatest supporters of WOF should be ashamed of reading, talk less of attempting to answer.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F10: Name-a-Seed or Seed Faith doctrine[/size]

I REST MY CASE ON F10

Wonderful read.

vision2050: ^ so you are saying my salary is not my first fruit? What is my First fruit, is it my service? You say I should give God my first fruit how can I? We give priest our earning the priest give it to God, they say we should bring our money they will help us to give God.

I think you should read the text I supplied again. It describes first fruits in the Old Testament and talks about what it has become in the NT.

None of them was anyone income or salary.

None of them was tithes. First fruits were never tithes.

The OT first fruit is well defined in those scriptures provided.

Jesus Christ has become the firstfruit from the dead in the NT. That way he fulfilled that obligation so Christian need not pay a first fruit. Just as he fulfilled all the law of Moses.

But if you must pay a first fruit, then you should pay it correctly. Your first fruit is your first harvest. Just as your tithe a tenth of your agricultural products. Both of which should be given to a Levite not a Pastor.

I welcome any further question.

This post below is what I usually supply on the question of first fruits. It reflects my own thoughts on it but it is the post by frosbel I want the OP TO take note of:

bennyraz: For the past 4years now, most pentecostal pastors have been preaching paying first fruit offering which means the first salary or money you earn as to go to the church.. I mean all of it (100%). If you earn 5k per month, you have to pay the 5k into the church by end of January when you are paid. I believe in tithing and offerings, pledges and vows because money is the vehicle of the gospel but I don't believe in first fruit offerings. Though I'm not and I will not condemn those that choose to give theirs, after all its not my money but I think the idea of giving money and expecting big money in return is kind of not too good after all God sees our heart. I want Pastor Tunde Bakare to speak on this and I want fellow nairalanders to share their opinion on this matter

Pastor Tunde Bakare preached a message titled Firstfruits, I believe in 2011. Check the Archive of the church messages and you will find it there (if you don't find it in 2011, check 2010 or 2012). The summary of his message was that Firstfruits was scriptural but that it was not the whole of one's January's salary. It was any financial increase you have. That is: if you were jobless and you get a job; the first salary is your firstfruit and it is to be given to the Pastor (or the Priest). Any other increase you have, should be given as firstfruit. E.g you were earning 150k but had a raise of 180k. The 30k increase is your firstfruit and you should give it. That is Tunde Bakare's opinion.

As of the time I listened to him preach it, I still tithed but had never given a firstfruit. I believed it but never could practice it. Today I no longer tithe and will never give a firstfruit. Why? Because what Bakare taught, even though it is a much milder "firstfruiting" from the one some inisist on which is your salary for January, is what I call the "doctrines of men".

Why do I do so? The reason is that I know of atleast three definition of the firstfuits:

1. Your January Salary

2. Any increase of your finances, like Bakare taught.

3. Firstfruit is your tithe, which my own Pastor in Ibadan taught once.

What does the bible truly teach on Firstfruit; at this point, I will quote a post by frosbel on firstfruit that he made many years ago:

frosbel:

Question: "What was the first fruits offering? Should Christians give a first fruits offering today?"

Answer: Firstfruits was a Jewish feast held in the early spring at the beginning of the grain harvest. It was observed on Nissan 16, which was the third day after Passover and the second day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Firstfruits was a time of thanksgiving for God’s provision.

Leviticus 23:9-14 institutes the firstfruits offering. The people were to bring a sheaf of grain to the priest, who would wave it before the Lord. A burnt offering, a meal offering, and a drink offering were also required at that time. Deuteronomy 26:1-10 gives even more detail on the procedure of firstfruits.

No grain was to be harvested at all until the firstfruits offering was brought to the Lord (Leviticus 23:14). The offering was made in remembrance of Israel’s sojourn in Egypt, the Lord’s deliverance from slavery, and their possession of “a land that floweth with milk and honey.” The day of the firstfruits offering was also used to calculate the proper time of the Feast of Weeks (Leviticus 23:15-16).

In the New Testament, the firstfruits offering is mentioned seven times, always symbolically. Paul calls Epaenetus and the household of Stephanas “the firstfruits of Achaia” (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:15). His meaning is that, just as the firstfruits offering was the first portion of a larger harvest, these individuals were the first of many converts in that region. James calls believers “a kind of firstfruits of His creatures” (James 1:18). Just like the sheaf of grain was set apart for the Lord, so are believers set apart for God’s glory.

The firstfruits offering found its fulfillment in Jesus. “But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep” (1 Corinthians 15:20). Jesus’ resurrection has paved the way for our resurrection. Significantly, if Jesus was killed at Passover, then His resurrection on the third day would have fallen on Nissan 16—the Feast of Firstfruits.

The firstfruits offering is never directly applied to Christian giving in the New Testament. However, Paul taught the Corinthian believers to set aside a collection “on the first day of the week” (1 Corinthians 16:2). And, just as the offering of firstfruits was an occasion of thanksgiving, so the Christian is to give with gladness.

In summary, firstfruits symbolizes God’s harvest of souls, it illustrates giving to God from a grateful heart, and it sets a pattern of giving back to Him the first (and the best) of what He has given us. Not being under the Old Testament Law, the Christian is under no further obligation than to give cheerfully and liberally (2 Corinthians 9:6-7).

The above for me is the firstfruit for Christians today. Firstfruit is not salary. Firstfruits, like tithes, were never money even in the OT. In the NT though firstfruit were mention, it was only in metaphores and not money or agric products as we had in the OT.

So my dear, save your money for more laudable purposes. You are not obliged to pay a firstfruit, tithe, offering, vow or any such things that modern day ministers demand today in the name of ministry. You are compelled to give only as God leads you and as you see the need in the NT.

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