₦airaland Forum

geoworldedu:
First of all, the story in the garden of Eden sounds to me like a fairytales and the only place we can read about such event is in a book of fairytales called the bible.

Unknownqueen 4:13-14

13. Tell us why it is valid without quoting another person's journal and publications called the Bible.
14. Prove to us that its a valid event asides just mumuishly believing that it will happen.

Good thing you say "to you" in show of yourself delu as people complaining that life is hard and the abundance of maternity hospitals and the fact that women are since been lower and less than men prove you are talking rubbish.

Babatunjo:
Religion may describe heaven as a place, and that’s fine for belief. But in practical terms, what determines your experience of “heaven” or “hell” is your
Inner state.

Same Lagos, same Nigeria… One person is at peace, grateful, fulfilled (Heaven). Another is restless, bitter, suffering (Hell).

I don’t believe heaven is a physical location somewhere in space. There’s no measurable evidence of that.

You say "inner state" who else is going to hell or new heaven and earth aka heaven? Is it the flesh that turns to dust?

And this is in addition to who is the person that smooches women whilst sitting in one place in the office or class!

Every reasonable person knows that hell is not physical and the heaven referred to is a the new world God is creating to replace this one we know, so it is not physical

tctrills:
I really don't have problems with Muslims or atheists, or people of other religions...

How can you have a problem with them when you are exactly like them but more confused?

One second you are pro Christian another time you are a God hater.

budaatum:
Why am I not surprised that a thread is more believable to you who can not look with your own eyes?

Can an ignorant blind Adam see that he is a naked slave?

Yet, you are here in a thread and talking. Clear proof you are ma

tctrills:
My wife is not my slave, I don't what you are taking about.
In fact, one can make the argument that man is the slave in the relationship.
We provide, we do the most dangerous task. We beg for their love, we beg them to marry us. We get worn and die before them.
True, we make more money than them but we spend more money on them.
We live to work for our women and children.
We are not their slaves but if the argument is to be made, man is closer to being the slave than the woman.

First, my comment was not directed to you however, it is known as proven by several threads here eg https://www.nairaland.com/5511568/why-society-does-not-value#83756442, men, know that women do not have much value

https://www.nairaland.com/5543807/apart-sex-women-nothing-offer#84277215

So, in the light of all these complaints we cannot believe that you would not enslave your wife maybe of course your wife is the one feeding you like Teni. But really I don't care whether your wife is a slave or not.

budaatum:
Fighting for gender superiority you mean, after gips like you have used your imaginary god to oppress for millennium.

And see how winning that fight intimidates small minded you, lol.

That means that they are the inferiority as proven by these threads https://www.nairaland.com/5511568/why-society-does-not-value#83756442

https://www.nairaland.com/5104898/hypocrisy-society-when-it-comes#77076676

So you see you are showing that the serpent is your father

I just checked nairaland and real eyesd that no one has asked what is the effect of not knowing good and evil.

So, people, let's discuss. What is effect of not having the knowledge of good and evil


Gabrielshow, i am raising this thread just for the purpose of having a wider opinion.

Gabrielshow26:
I appreciate you wanting to test the validity of these perspectives. It is helpful to look closely at the text to see if these conclusions are truly supported by the narrative or if they are being read into it. Let's start with a baseline: what's your definition of knowledge?

Now to answer your first question: No, I am not suggesting Adam and Eve were without knowledge or intelligence. However, the Bible specifies they lacked the knowledge of good and evil as a moral category🤔. In the Hebraic context, this often refers to 'moral autonomy'—the decision to determine for oneself what is right and wrong, independent of God. Probably, why self-dependence is actively played down or discouraged in the bible as God wants us to be dependent on him!

It wasn’t a lack of cognitive ability, but a lack of experiential awareness of sin. To equate 'knowledge' specifically with sexual intimacy in this one instance is a significant leap that the surrounding text does not support.

Regarding your second point, the idea that 'where there is smoke, there is fire' is often used to justify these theories😅, but in theology, we must be careful not to mistake 'smoke' for 'mirage.'🤔 While many people have reached the conclusion you mentioned, arriving at a conclusion in 'different ways' does not inherently make the conclusion true🤧.

If the original readers and thousands of years of Hebrew scholarship did not see a sexual subtext👀, we have to ask: Are we discovering a 'hidden truth,' or are we imposing modern or external ideas onto an ancient story? 🧐 I think it's the latter🤧.

Furthermore, if we base our theology on what we think we see 🤔behind the text rather than what the text actually says, we risk creating a 'private interpretation' (2 Peter 1:20). The biblical account consistently frames the fall as an act of disobedience regarding a command about food, not a sexual transgression. Adding a sexual layer complicates the story's focus on the human will and trust in God—total dependence on God!

I believe the 'fire' in this story isn't a hidden sexual act😮‍💨, but the very real and devastating fire of human pride and the desire to be 'like God' on our own terms. That is the tragedy the text is actually presenting to us.

Aha, I see, you are reading it in terms of institutional theology hence your refusal to accept or consider other views beyond your schooled study. Forgetting that all subjects of institutional study were first studied by people in the times when there was nothing like institution. Thus, all these studies we have in schools are all based on people's natural observation.

And every view expressed is always born out of the text given.

And the major plausibility about this view is that no one at first thought it was sex as on the face of the text there is no sex stated in it But however, as people acquired more experience, they began to make and see indicators that is sex. And for me, i see even better, i see the indicators, the facts and The Law. As you even said "experiential awareness". So you have the first clue that experience is a key.

So, we are in agreement that they had all knowledge but that the only knowledge they lacked is the knowledge of good and evil.

Now, what is the effect of not knowing good and evil? Let's start here.

budaatum:
Doctor pastor liesspeaker, you cry more than buda because your brain is broken.

Eve freed herself from slavery by acquiring knowledge, and you should learn and free yourself too.

Ref: https://www.nairaland.com/7351620/story-adam-eve-makes-sense#117003826

Yet, she became a slave to men to the point that her kind are begging for gender equality. In addition to your spine, your lungs and kidney are already affected, so it is clear you are on your way to hel..

Did you not hear that God already told us all these was going to happen? So we are not bothered.

budaatum:
Below is the actual words that teach most people to fear to seek the truth:

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

What most don't understand is humans wrote the book, and use those words to enslave other humans and to make them believe that seeking knowledge is satan worship, when the truth is, you shall not surely die, but your eyes will open when you seek knowledge, and you will become an Image of the Gods who rule and subdue and multiply and are blessed, which is what a proper understanding of the book will empower you to become and do.

Basically, without knowledge you are mud, and will slave naked and ignorant in what you think is Eden, but with knowledge you are an Image of the Gods, and will Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The choice is of course one's.

So, ph0o... you have enslaved people with knowledge before, yet God punis you with a broken spine! To think that eve had knowledge yet everybody enslaves her

See devu again. Another Christian attack

Do you yourself accept Truth?

If you did, then why are you always attacking Christianity?

God will 🔥 u. You will go out with 2 eyes and return with half

Gabrielshow26:
It's a modern-ish🤔 re-interpretation based on the biblical use of the word "know". In plain English, a false equivocation!

A prominent protagonist, on nairaland, of this doctrine albeit quite mildly, not to the extent of Satan having sex with Eve, is oridavid. It seems both of you are from the same school of thought.

To me, I believe It's a figurative language to explain man's attainment of enlightenment(knowledge). I liken man to a child, innocent, that needed an external factor to shed this off. It takes a lot of logical leaps to arrive at Satan having sex with Eve.

I know you are limiting this view to yourself however i would like to test its validity.

First, Are you saying that Adam (male and female) did not have knowledge?

Secondly, most people who arrive at this satan had sex with eve conclusion arrived at it in different ways. And we all know that where there is smoke we should look for fire.

Especially as we all know that when we first read it, no one thought anything about sex however, they must have seen something and that is what is being presented.

See all the men saying that he should help are still the same ones who wanted to born down their house when she gave her ex boyfriend or her ex boyfriend gave her.

OKEIYIOKODU:
Help her if you can but if you want to don't do it.
She is the one who offended you and since you bear no grudge and have moved on with your life.
But help with no string attached for you are better off .

There is nothing like giving with no strings. Strings are already there

yemre:
We help strangers we don't know, let alone someone you once dated.

In my own opinion, you can help her but with a condition! Send her whatever you need to send her but cut all ties with her afterwards. This is because if you allow her to keep coming back or keep in touch, it's just a matter of time she will start cheating on her husband with you, and I'm sure you wouldn't want that (if you don't pray for such for your own wife).

The reason you need to assist her is so that she would know that life can be funny. Besides, we all date most times, not knowing what the future holds. She has seen you as someone who could assist at this point. So help her and move on. After all, she's now married and keeping in touch would only make her life worse.

Strangers are better than this old tanglement strings. Giving her leads to a restringing,

In all these if it was your wife who said this about her ex boyfriend, I'm sure your house will be hot that day

simigold:
Look man, don't listen to all the negative advices,if you've got the will and power to help, pls go ahead, afterall you help those you are not entangled to. Learn to forgive and move on. The only revenge to heartbreak is to be successful and point it out.

Those who are not entangled is better than this old tanglements. He is already successful and she now asked him so there is no revenge in hissing and shouting at her that she should never call him even if she iis bleeding from a gunshot wound 3 houses from his house.

Kobicove:
I don't see anything wrong in helping her if it's within your capacity(No strings attached).

Who does not know that giving her is a string?

Despair means that you are not yet with God and that God is not yet with you. So this one does not enter

I thought the presumption you had in mind is the one where people presume that they are children of God because they have said those words pastor told them to say.

SpyMaster1, This guys threads are for you but as usual, you wont heed it

Topic: THE BATTLES YOU MUST WIN (99)
THE GATE OF A SOFTENED HEART — OVERCOMING IMPENITENCE IN CHRIST

[b]Impenitence is the hardened state of a heart that refuses to repent, even when confronted with truth. It resists correction, ignores conviction, [/b]and gradually shuts the door to God’s mercy.

And this is what destroys every atheists, church goers and anyone who refuses to learn that God Rules and that His Will will always be done

SkengRay:
But still One must Love and Forgive as the Father in Heaven does. Jesus Christ is enough to fix her bro abi na .

See all the time wey don pass she don fix herself? No
Woman no dey fix herself and so Jay Cee dey free.
And even if she dey fixed, still run

SkengRay:
Haba Amigo. This isn't Fair, is This the empathy and Compassion Jesus Taught you?

Ah bros, you are falling for the devus trap oo. All this bush baby wailing is because men real eyes that women have been making their lives very bad. And now that they are running from them, they are pulling and calling you to come back to them with all these pity parade. Don't listen to them oo, you would still regret it again and you would still be the one crying

merrymike47:
Guy that is your truth and not mine, you truth is not my business. Whether Satan impregnated Eve or not, just make sure to make heaven, just so Satan won't flog the hell out of you for wrong allegations when you meet it in hell.

Gee, it is not my Truth, it is the Truth directly seen in the bible, which has been re presented to you for you to see, and you saw it and you can not make any reasonable and valid opposition against it.

So, it stands and you can rest now as I wait to see if any other person can bring a better case against it.

Another sob story for men to pity and fall into devu hand

merrymike47:
I just hope you know that you are here saying trash. Everything you are putting together ain't making no sense. Trust me, if you are making any sense, if at all, I can be interested. But obviously, it's not like you'll make any sense on this
matter.

As I said before, if you truly had any valid objection, you would have stated it.

So you are only attacking me and not the argument (ad hominem fallacy) which is clear proof that you never had any reasonable opposition in the first place and you are just wailing in denial because you don't want to accept the Truth placed before you which you cannot argue against.

SpyMaster1:
Calling it “bias” or “prejudice” whenever someone looks at language, dating, and historical context is just a way to dismiss evidence you don’t like. Anonymous writing and later titles were common in the ancient world that’s why scholars apply the same standards to Ecclesiastes, the Gospels, and many other ancient books. It’s not special hatred for the Bible; it’s consistent method.
But let’s focus on the content, since that’s what you want.
You keep saying the main point of Ecclesiastes is “the futility of going against God” and that the Preacher is confessing his failure and defeat. But the text itself does not say that.

The Preacher spends the vast majority of the book saying “Vanity of vanities, all is vanity” not “I tried to remove God from my life and failed.” He describes how pleasure, wisdom, wealth, work, and even righteousness all feel empty because death levels everyone, injustice continues, and life under the sun feels like chasing wind. He questions the afterlife with real doubt.
That deep skepticism and sense of meaninglessness is what I find honest not a special “depression of God-rebellers.” Many people, believers and non-believers alike, recognize that life really can feel futile when you look at it without forcing comforting answers onto it.

Christians may find comfort in other parts of the Bible and believe death leads to a better world. That’s fine for you. But Ecclesiastes itself does not offer that comfort for most of its pages. It stares at the vanity and finality of life “under the sun” and mostly leaves it there.
I’m not in denial. I’m comfortable with the possibility that the Preacher was right for most of the book: everything under the sun really is vanity, and there may be no grand divine plan or better world waiting after death. That doesn’t make me “anti-God.” It makes me honest about what the text actually emphasizes.!

You atheists never real eyes that all atheism is fuelled by bias and prejudice which you have exhibited all through this thread. And that is why rather than present a reasonable counter you chose to resort to the fallacy of over generalisation in an attempt to defend yourself.

As i said when bias people are looking for a fallt, they would use anything to say that it is flawed.

And to the issue, you are just repeating yourself as you have said all these before and i have answered is it until a book says that it is a confession before you know that it is a confession?

And your denial is even more funny as the writer makes several confessions for you to infer eg

"I said in mine heart, Go to now, I will prove thee with mirth, therefore enjoy pleasure.

I builded me houses; I planted me vineyards:

7 I got me servants and maidens, and had servants born in my house;

10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy;

And everything you have said now, you have said before which is the proof of bias as you refuse to accept that there is a thing called inference against statements made in a document or book.

Which is why even in English comprehension, after we were given a story, we were asked "what is theme/subject matter of the story?" Eg. The Concubine by Elechi Amadi, is even a story about a woman, and the men in her life, yet every reasonable person infers that the story is about how certain women are cusd and the form the cus takes shape.

And every one who went to school learnt to apply inference to every document but here you are refusing and dodging the inference of Ecclesiastes and choosing to rely solely on the strict and literal interpretation.

That is the clear case of confirmation bias, a thing which every atheists and anti God person must do, as you can not be comfortable with any pro God information.

merrymike47:
you've lost it bro, you are not redeemable. Everything you wrote isn't logical, not even making any sense. Just rest okay?

If it is not logical why did you not pointed out the illogicality?

This is clearly denial speaking for you got the point that Satan had sex with Eve, so you asked if
he then "raped" or had sex with Adam right? Because Adam ate the fruit too.".

And now I have shown you that the Bible expressly shows that Satan gave it to eve and it is eve who gave it to male Adam.

Hence, when God came, the case moved backwards that is from male Adam where it ended, male Adam blamed female Adam and then female Adam in turn blamed Satan.

And, now you are wailing in denial because you don't want to accept the Truth.