₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
To avoid the sin of verbosity, I'll try to be terse - So are you in essence opining that "religions are scratching the surface of the same object - and - this object is the way to get (reconcile/reconnect/bind back etc) to God - and not God himself"?[/b]and that the fact these other religions do not recognize the central theme of sin and redemption in christianity is not necessarily problematic, but that they are applying "Pythagoras'" theory anyways? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.

Yes, Jessy. This is exactly what I am saying. Religion is the surface of an object, and this object in itself is a way that binds us back to God. This is just the way you also put it, succinctly: Religion is a way [b]to find the way to reconnect to God.

JeSoul:
Recall Nicholas Cage in the movie National Treasure. They find the map to the treasure, but need to find a way to read the map. They locate the cypher in the museum - it translates to the location of a pair of glasses. They locate the glasses and look through it at the map:

Gates - It says "Heere at the wall"
Riley - That's it? I thought the glasses were a way to read the map?
Gates - [size=15pt]No. The glasses were a way - to find a way - to read the map[/size]
Riley (frustrated) - why can't they just say "here's the treasure, spend wisely?" lol.

Hope I haven't confused you. Religion is a way - to find the way - to God. At least that's what I think. We would much rather be like Riley and have the answers directly in front of us but God chose otherwise for us. The finding of religion itself will not get you to God (as we have all agreed). At the center of it all, is Faith, an inherent knowledge of God, when one recognizes it and the recognition of it reflects in how they live their lives (sin, love, God etc), God approves of them.

Pastor AIO:
Open your eyes to understand whatever it is that you said that you didn't understand.

It has already been established that I am the holiest so leave that one to one side.

Hi Gbagudara. I am all too familiar with the prose above, howbeit in slightly various interpretations or forms on each rendition.

I feel like this is a distraction from the thread's topic so I want you to reflect on these:

1. Education is not evil. There is nothing wrong with increasing in knowledge:
Pro 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out

2. Music is not "the devil's tool". God enjoys music, and it's one of his gifts to man.
Psa 67:4 May the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you rule the peoples justly and guide the nations of the earth. Selah
Psa 95:2 Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song.

3. None of the above have shown how (a) Religion is of the devil and (b) Christianity is anti-religion.

4. When you choose to do God's will, your "religion" has been defined.
John 7:17 If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

4. You are yet to respond to Enigma's last post.

Enigma:
May I ask:

1. What is Christianity?

2. How would we know that a person is a Christian?

3. If a person complies with what James said in 1:27 do you not think that person would indeed be a Christian?

4. (3 above in other words) Is a person who practises this pure and undefiled religion not therefore a Christian?

Peace be unto you.

@cultey:

Hi. Okay please correct me if I am wrong but I am not familiar with any Bible verses that require Christians to declare to people who will go to hell and who will go to heaven.

P.S. The link didn't help to clarify the position, but maybe I'm just thick.

Hello again Gbagudara,

Rituals are stereotyped behaviours recommended and employed in standard spiritual practices.

As for your submission on education, once again I say Education is not a religion. Education is not evil either.

Some things can be put to good use or evil use without necessarily being on either side of the divide, and Education is one of them even though it leans more on the good end.

Sweetnecta: Moses was the light of 50 blocks ago. Jesus was the light of 20 blocks ago. Muhammad is the light of the longest block that you live in and it is the block that extends to the city limit. To say that the dimmed lights of 50 and 20 blocks in the past is as brilliant as the light of the lamp that you under its rays right now is not telling the truth, especially if they are made by the same Maker.

Thanks for your submission Sweetnecta but I beg to disagree. I don't believe the light of a prophet is diminished by time as the era in which he lives/lived passes by. Prophets are manifested for a time/season but they are forever relevant to learn from - and  throughout the ages.

As for your views on the "voiceless" (as you say) Holy Ghost, I think I will not like to touch that sensitive matter.

Sweetnecta: Has there been a prophet after him? Of course not.

Sweetnecta: Could you tell me who was the prophet after Muhammad [as] and who is a prophet that you know walking on earth today? What does he bring from God Almighty and what book is his book?

Maybe we should start by asking: what qualifies a prophet? Who is a prophet? Does he have to have written, directed or inspired a book in order to be called a prophet?

sweetnecta: A person who switched gear from that moment, throwing away every idolatry thoughts, if he dies before discovering who Muhammad is, he at least became a Hanifan. If not a full muslim from that point, he is no more a disbeliever for sure. On the day of the great meeting, he will be tested to see if he would have followed the messenger or not if he had known about him [as] om earth. if he passes his test, he will be admitted to Paradise. if he fails his test, he will be herded to hellfire because if he knew about the messenger while on earth he would have refused to follow him.

Hi Sweetnecta

I have never heard of that of which you speak, above. I had to do some background checks and yet I turned up with nothing. e.g.

http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm

Can you please provide links or verses from the Koran to backup your post? Thanks.

Hello Gbagudara

You said "Christians have no rituals?" Is this really true, considering the definition of a ritual?

Meanwhile, are you saying that because some religions involve wrong practices and falsehood and wickedness therefore ALL religions are (i.e. Religion in general, is) of the devil?

gbagudara:
Evolution is a religion, so is Hollyweird (Nollyweird) [size=15pt]and Education[/size].

I didn't even see this at first. Education is also a religion?

Pray explain how?

Joagbaje:
Religion to a great extent has has to do with man search for God. but christ is Gods way of bringing man to himself.

Does this mean when a man who does not know Christ searches for God, God does not bring the man to himself? Do you have examples, because I have contrary examples?

religion has to do with conducts but christianity is a life .You can join a religion and pull out . but you are born into christ , it is a life, a nature  . God living through a man.

Does this mean there are no Christians who have ever pulled out?

---

Religion is of the Devil.

Pastor AIO:
It is very easy.

Pure religion undefiled before God means that there are some things from the devil that are undefiled and acceptable towards God.

This includes helping widows and Orphans.  However since it is from the devil then it is better that every good christian abstains from such activities.  It is better to give your money to the Pastor.

Now this is hilarious! Check out Pastor AIO's risible sarcasm. As Enigma said, the Bible clearly states that religion can be pure and undefiled. I don't see how that can intersect with evil.

I just can't find a way to reconcile
1. Devil: (Judeo-Christian and Islamic religions) chief spirit of evil and adversary of God; tempter of mankind; master of Hell
and
2. Religion: A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny

and conclude that Religion is of the Devil. I have tried, and I can't!! 

Does this mean that all of man's pursuit of the divine ends up in the "evil arms of the devil"? How will this relationship with God begin if religion is of the devil? 

What do you have to say, Joagbaje et al?

Dear Jacobscros

First you need to answer this question:
"Why do I want to go to the so-called heaven?"

While answering, a penny will drop and you will suddenly see the answer to this question you ask: "How will I get there?"

I wish you well!

gbagudara:
Christianity is a relationship with sweet Jesus.  It is not a religion.  Religion is of the Devil.

Now this is remarkable!

Please help me here, Gbagudara and Theotempo. Define these two things as well as you can:

1. What/who is the Devil?
2. What is Religion?

Dare2Think: Hello and welcome to the thread!

Jesoul: It's alright, Jessy. I'll look forward to that. . . Cheers!

poweredcom:
@Dulcet7

I beg no kill me here i saw it on a google search, and u r so quick to insult me that i have no work, does it take a whole day to post a topic online, bleep you, ignorant not-so-smart person

Gosh!  Sir where did I insult you or say you have no work? 

Let me repeat what I said while I simultaneously strain out a gnat and try to fish out the insults: 

Dulcet7:
Hello poweredcom

I[b] think your question is like asking "If you had no home to return to, would you go to work?".[/b]

Going to work and being homeless are unrelated matters. Some people work hard during the day, and they are homeless - they go to sleep on the sidewalks at night. Some others have a proper home, and they do not work at all - they know something or someone, or have something, or once did something which is now paying off, or are in the right government that cares for them.

Belief in heaven or hell as a reward has little or nothing to do with belief in God.

poweredcom:
Just because i saw this on google i posted it here and you Guys wanna eat me raw/////bleep you all

Okay via google, you meant? Obviously you visited an indexed site with misinformation. There is a lot of that everywhere. . .

Pastor AIO:
Since I've been on Nairaland I have seen anyone mirror my standpoint so precisely and yet say it so differently.  I especially like the term Inaugural objective.

It was this question that I asked on the Islam section in different terms.  I asked how the practice of the 5 pillars can bring anyone to the state of Al-Fitra.  Till today I have not received an answer.  If your religious practice does not bring you to that pure state then how can you claim to be practicing a pure religion. 

I like to place the emphasis on Practice.  And sometimes our practice can be faulty and not lead to 'optimisation'. 

Also when you say 'some religions carry out functions that detract rather than sustain the global objective' I am assuming that you are referring to religions as organisations, not in the ideology itself. 

1. Thanks Pastor AIO. When I stumbled upon and read your interview with Deep Sight on nairaland I thought almost the same thing to myself!

2. I recall I also talked about this once: the 5 pillars themselves cannot bring one to the state of Al-Fitra. They are symbolic guides on the way home!!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-575273.0.html#msg7505010

Dulcet7: A Muslim might receive such an enlightenment spark while doing one of his 5 required pillars of faith and suddenly finding out the secret truth that may escape many other Muslims - those pillars are symbolic - and stumbling upon this symbolism he finds a spark of salvation that leads him on a brand new journey - still in Islam - but now on the way to assured salvation.

3. This is also correct. Our practice can be faulty and sometimes might NOT lead to optimization. Very correct! This may be attributed to corruption and influences directing the religious body in which one practices, or else allowances tolerated within the religion which make the person comfortable with the very contrivances they are meant to get rid of. Practice is key, but without any practice in the first place, optimization will never occur!

4. Yes, I do not refer to the ideology. I believe all religious ideologies in their pure form^* are beneficial. The human element tends to corrupt this spiritual innocence because humans love indulging in their own contrived gimmicks. The religious institution, especially when spearheaded by people with intentions to enforce some form of societal change; might thus detract from the global objective of true religion.

* I have some minor reservations about my view on "pure forms" of religion. Maybe another time. . .

Pastor AIO:
I'm so happy that I looked into this thread.

I believe that I've made my position clear (or unclear to such as Deepsight) several times on this forum about the relationship between the various religions and Truth.

I believe that there are certain images that have cropped up time and again fabric of religions. They crop up not only in religion but in folktales and other aspects of popular culture. Was it Jung who once said that Dreams are the Myths of an individual, and Myths are the Dreams of a people? Just as there are certain patterns and images that keep cropping up in our dreams (like the dreams of being unclothed in a public place, or of flying, or of running away from something but staying on the same spot), so there are patterns and images that keep cropping up in religions and mythologies all over the world. Perhaps these images exist independently in a kind of collective unconscious like Jung suggested.

You are welcome to the thread, Pastor AIO! I love reading your posts too (I found some a while ago. Appears you stopped posting actively too).

Did you miss this one? "The assurance of salvation"? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-575273.0.html

Gosh you have no idea how much I love this quote of yours

However an aspect of the various religions that makes them undeniably different from each other is the manner in which the images are interpreted. Here we cannot deny the influence of Social engineering and politics in the development of religions. Religions are often used to control and shape societies [size=14pt]and so are as variable as the intentions of the various social engineers[/size].

I think we have to make a distinction between religion as a tool for social organisation and religion as a means of re-ligere-ing/reconciling/reconnecting man to his God.

+1000

God bless you, sir!

vescucci:
Hi Dulcet. I have a feeling I have a lot to learn from you. Yeah, I kinda stopped posting here for a while cuz there's an egotistical epidemic in this section. If you don't hang out with people like JeSoul or yourself, you may lose your humility and common sense. So I'm selective now.

Hmmm. It seems you're God sent. About two years ago I finally had the courage to admit to myself the things I believed and the things I did not. Initially, I felt so liberated and I was excited. But afterwards were trying times for me. I wonder if I lost or gained in my new outlook. I don't feel that connection with God like I did before even though it was on a placebo. That's why I think religion is immaterial to one's relationship with God. But religion can also do a lot of harm. Because it is dogmatic and fatal to one's faculty of reasoning. Almost no religious argument makes any sense. Mostly there're based on a faulty premise or assumption. I totally get trying to know God on one's terms. I was conscious of this, that I might be too empirical about my spirituality. But when I see some people talking about their fantastic beliefs, I get a little pissed cuz they look down on other people's beliefs which are just as fantastic as their own and sometimes even less so. What I'm trying to say is religion, with a sincere heart, may be a good means to an end but can never be the end in itself.

Yes! That is exactly what I meant about the Orientals. I'm not the best at expression so I appreciate you getting that. The Orientals place emphasis on finding your own way. But even then, there's got to be some universal truths. There can't just be whatever each one finds because most times, they are at a conflict.

Ah. Scripture. I'm extremely wary of quoting scripture. Do you wanna take a shot at my question? The one about what the point of our salvation/optimization is.

Hello Vescucci:

I understand you fully. Nowadays I try to stay away from some passionate threads here, too. Almost everything you said about religion and your personal experience has been soundly addressed by Pastor AIO's distinction below:

I think we have to make a distinction between religion as a tool for social organisation and religion as a means of re-ligere-ing/reconciling/reconnecting man to his God.

+1 I have to say this is just wonderful, the way he expressed it!

About quoting scripture, I was just backing up my claims about Jesus' teaching being undeniably different to the observers.

Do you wanna take a shot at my question? The one about what the point of our salvation/optimization is.

I believe this is the same reason as the point of creation, because creation, optimization and expiry is one long and single continuum for each human experience. It will fall under the category I formerly referred to as inquiries into the nature of God and His secrets. Okay the question again:

Question: Some people say we're on earth to learn lessons, to love, to this and to that. But when we're done learning, what next? What's the use?

I deliberately skipped this at first, but if I must answer now I will skim the surface of my thoughts. . . think of a body of pathogenic viruses attacking a host. Their sole purpose of invading the host is to replicate the virus cells and force all the host cells to conform to it. These viruses will not stop until the host cells have all been changed. Now consider that from a positive angle. After we are "done learning", we infect others with it until there is none else to infect.

By my understanding, creation is an example of a manufacturing process, the manufacturer God created us as a supply for a demand which he created at the same time. I think the purpose of our creation (and this the need for the optimization) is to "play God" on His behalf at taking care of all nature: plants, animals, other humans, landscapes, seas, everything. We would never have needed optimization but along the line we all got irresponsible: all forms of sin and wickedness destructively and adversely affect yourself, a fellow man or another aspect of nature (as listed) directly or indirectly - think about it. Once a change in viewpoint has been established in you and you see yourself as caretaker of all nature, you have been "infected" and part of that mandate involves infecting others too. By the time everyone is infected (if that ever happens), everyone is a sound caretaker and the creation - optimization - expiry phase called life becomes entirely complete. I cannot conjecture what would happen at this point.

I hope this is sufficient, Vescucci

Any (other) contrary views?

Kudos to the young man. We need more minds like this in Nigeria.

For detractors on this thread, agreed, the use of the word inventor may have been superfluous but inventions are not always brand new concepts. This is why we speak of re-inventing the wheel. Meanwhile there is nothing wrong with re-inventing the wheel. Technological breakthroughs have occurred while a stubborn person was reinventing the wheel.

Wikipedia defines invention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention

An invention is a new composition, device, or process. An invention may be derived from a pre-existing model or idea, or it could be independently conceived in which case it may be a radical breakthrough.

Not all inventions are independently conceived and some are derived from pre-existing models or ideas. Not all are radical breakthroughs. They are inventions all the same.

In this case, Shehu Balami used only locally available material to build his rockets from scratch. He did not invent the process, and he didn't invent the model, but surely that is an invention of sorts - considering the material he used.

To avoid ambiguity maybe the more accurate word would have been innovation.

Theotempo:
Christianity without the annointing is religion! Pst Chris!

Hi Theotempo.

I notice that some Christians are always very quick to distance themselves from religion. Is there something wrong with practising religion?

vescucci:
This is the kinda thread I wanna be posting in. Hi, Dulcet. Been ages, brother.

Your anecdote or allegory is a bit confusing o. I lost comprehension of who he [/i]is. But that is irrelevant to your question and this is my answer:

I believe in God. I'd have added absolutely before but let's say the fact that I 'believe' in Him diminishes that for I don't believe in the sun or in osmosis. I know.

I do not think all religions lead to the same place. No one should believe this. Also, I don't believe in religion because it infers variety. There might very well be a 'way' but it is not a religion. I don't know MANY MANY things but I know some things that I can't accept. Like hell or the trinity (which I may concede to be a manifestation but not a nature). One might practice a religion but not fall short of God's mercy or love because of one's nature and intentions. One might even be an atheist and not be cast away by God. That's why sometimes, it is mere academic pursuit to bother with some things. These are some of the things I believe in. Religions in the true sense of the word are all flawed. Judaism, Christianity and Islam most especially. The Orientals have some things purer but the problem is that they are DEFINITELY man made.

Question: Some people say we're on earth to learn lessons, to love, to this and to that. But when we're done learning, what next? What's the use?

Hi Jay

Thanks for posting in the thread, brother. Yes, been ages truly. Haven't really been seeing your posts either

My anecdote or allegory?  You don't worry about that, it was only important as an introduction 

I understand your reason for being slow to add "absolutely" to your belief in God, and it is the reason some people say theists and atheists are almost certainly wrong, and themselves tend to be agnostic. The sun and osmosis are easily captured within your experience. You can deny a potted plant of the sun and be in control, watch it grow and bend towards light as it craves for the sun. You can stare at the sun when its powerless, when its about to set or when it's just about rising. Even when its high up in the sky at noon you can stare at it with dark goggles. You can accelerate or impede the process of osmosis. This is something very human about us - we like to be in charge of our experiences. Controlling your experience gives you a form of absolute knowledge, it goes beyond just [i]knowing. For God, you have to have a faith-kind of knowledge. You can't "make" God do what you want, you can't prevent what you disdain. I understand you very well.

I also do not believe that all religions lead to the same place. However, neglecting human corruption and selfish desires, they all have the same objective: optimization (commonly called salvation).

Having an objective does not mean that the means employed will be justified in the end, except in a perfect world free of wickedness. So I agree that some religions carry out functions that detract rather than sustain the global objective of human salvation.

There might very well be a 'way' but it is not a religion.

+1 I like this. This is why I like to say I am a theist, I believe in God. This "way" you speak of is the common object of all religions.
This is the object which the religions describe its surface, and the objective of this object is optimization of your efficiency a.k.a salvation

As for your points on hell and the trinity (maybe, as well as heaven), I think they are not the more important aspects of your spirit's optimization. This is because they are inquiries into the nature of God and His secrets (encouraged but not of fundamental importance) rather than into your own place in the scheme of things, so if I were you I wouldn't strongly say I cannot accept them, but will concede that maybe they are important enough for the totality of another man's experience of salvation e.g. Christians. If one insists so strongly about the nature of God and the experience of His secrets, is this not like my first point about trying to control God within your experience?

You said the Orientals seem to have something purer. I think by this you mean the Eastern religions tend to place more emphasis on wisdom of experience expressed as didactive oracles/ sayings / logion rather than absolute forms of doctrine like in the West. Oriental religions tend to be more intuitive and individualistic, and I think that is how religion is meant to be. That was also one thing that made Jesus' teachings different from the classical Jewish foundations before him, his Logia.

Mark 1:22 (NLT)
The people were amazed at his teaching, for he taught with real authority--quite unlike the teachers of religious law.

Hello poweredcom

I think your question is like asking "If you had no home to return to, would you go to work?".

Going to work and being homeless are unrelated matters. Some people work hard during the day, and they are homeless - they go to sleep on the sidewalks at night. Some others have a proper home, and they do not work at all - they know something or someone, or have something, or once did something which is now paying off, or are in the right government that cares for them.

Belief in heaven or hell as a reward has little or nothing to do with belief in God.

poweredcom:
I was reading the Bible and on page 33 it says

Okay, what bible though?

Pastor AIO:
Page 33, on the left margin, halfway down . . .  of the Satanic Bible to be precise.

Exactly. 2nd verse of the 4th chapter of the Book of Satan (which is the first book of the Satanic bible)

Vescucci, good morning and let's have a bite at it shall we?

---

Sweetnecta good morning to you (I assume you are in Nigeria). Please note that I didnt say a Sufi mystic represents all Muslims, just like the Christian mystic does not represent all Christians.

Rather, the mystics of whatsoever pedigree from Eastern faiths to Western faiths all agree that religion is a cloak, a mask, a covering, a surface.

Im not a mystic but I agree, and this thread is asking: are they correct? If so, then why all the inter-religious conflict?

With due respect to your faith, I do not believe in the idea of a "last prophet", which tends to human worship and blind dogma because each prophet's way of life often generates a new religion or a new perspective on an old one. So if this new viewpoint is taken in isolation of all precedence and current exposure to wholesome truth, trouble will brew.

As long as there is wickedness in the world, God will keep on raising prophets and teachers among men until love snuffs the life out of wickedness to fellow man and nature.

For all the true prophets who have ever been, there is something to learn from each of them. They are shining lights in the dead of the night.

They are there so that you wont make any mistakes they made, if they did, and so you can finish whatever good they started among men.

Vescucci you are warmly welcome, brother. Thanks for joining us. Im replying from my phone cos Im in bed now (my riposte to Jessy was already a mouthful to type!) so I will have to continue this tomorrow, please pardon me. Pax vobiscum!

Thanks for your reasoned response, Jessy.

I believe religions are surfaces of the same object, but that object is not God, at least not directly.

A human's true religious objective is to achieve maximum efficiency in all spheres of life (there is no religion in death).

Efficiency can only be maximized according to the manufacturer's standards, and this is where God comes in.

By the etymology of "re-ligion", it attempts to "bind back together" (establish 100% efficiency by design standards).

This process of "Unit testing" is the common object which can take various courses called religion. The object is same, but the objective is often lost in the excitement.

For every religion, one should be able to ask, 'Does this really increase my efficiency as a creation of God?' i.e. Am I 'helping' God do what he planned when he created me and everything else?

This is why I have little respect for so-called religious persons who have no respect for nature in itself, or for those who use the name of religion to deprive others of their lives and belongings.In either case, they are not only failing at their inaugural objectives, they are destroying other Creations' efficiencies as well.

You made a good point about the Bible's clear message in its distinction. However, I still think religions involve channels of experience.

Consider a learned Greek man in the days of Pythagoras when he devised his math theories. His knowledge of theory and application is in his experience: in his day the information was spiritual, sacred; he was privileged to know, and everything was proven in details before acceptance.

Now consider us "educated people" today. We take some academic things for granted as axioms and we move on to 'tougher' things. Many of us cant even prove the famous Pythagoras theorem, but we know the man and we choose to trust that he was correct.

Last of all, there are uneducated people: e.g. cloth-sellers and house-painters who use a crude form of this theorem when cutting cloth or estimating the slant the ladder must have against the wall. They have never heard of Pythagoras. They dont even know the theorem exists, and they dont know that they dont know. The painter might not even work with the measured distances, he has an accurate gut feeling of the ratios.

The bottom line is that for each of the three categories they have applied the theorem to better themselves at what they do.

Our sole purpose is to maximize the efficiency of our lives' design. Jesus came to show us a tangible form and he gave himself up in the process because it was necessary and THAT was what maximised his own efficiency (he is totally respected across Eastern and Western religions), but I assure you there are some people who have not seen or heard this tangible form and yet they are somehow doing things right!

This is cool! More pictures please!

@cultey:

John 10:14-16 (New International Version, ©2011)
14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

Greetings. But it is Jesus who knows his own sheep? I don't think it is in your place to predict who will go to hell and who will go to heaven because only Jesus knows them by heart. And he himself has said he has other sheep that are not (obviously) in his sheep pen, but they will be gathered together as well.

I don't think it should be your headache, just do your own work of love and don't worry about who will make heaven and who will roast in hell.

I wish you well.

JeSoul:
Dulcet! how have you been sir? sorry for the off topic

Right here, madam Jesoul. I just stopped posting, but I have been coming to read the threads.

Hope you are in sound health and peace? I wish you very well. . .

JeSoul:
I believe what the bible teaches that no man can get to the Father except through Jesus. The distinction is this - some people have 'accepted Jesus' without even realizing it, without ever hearing of His name, they were His followers . . .

Romans 2:14 "Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says.

and also

Acts 10:34 "Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism, but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."

+1 I wholly agree with this.

This is related. Please come in, everybody.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-630006.0.html

The Jerusalem Shopkeeper's Assertion: What Really (matters In) Religion.