₦airaland Forum

In that interview, Wenger was giving reason is isn't playing 4-4-2. Why he decided not to use two strikers. He didn't need to go into tactical details in his decision to play a man in he hole or as an AM.

coogar: you can even call that 5-3-2. it depends how you see it. that's the more reason you should listen to the manager, not whoscored.

That's wrong. Mata is not operating as a traditional midfielder. If Gaal was asked to go into details, he would split it down. But for purpose of analysis, we are to split it down every time. Here, we are like whoscored or Zonal Marking. We dig into the difference between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 or whatever to get to help our analysis and players slot.

As far as I know, 4-3-3 means you aren't playing anyone to create behind the striker, and the striker isn't a box sitter. We all know RVP and Giroud have been inbox strikers while Nasri/Carzola/Ramsey/Rosicky/Ozil/ have all been creating behind them.

lekkie073: where dem dig d hole ?
if at all there is an imaginary hole between the mid fielders and forwards, then there has to be another hole between defenders and midfielders. who fills that hole?

There's no hole there. The CMs cover there. The AM is the 3rd layer while the striker the fourth.

lekkie073: one of those days u made sense.....positions in football are categorised into three: defence, midfield and forward.....anything outside DAT is nonsense jare

This is not true at all. A fourth layer emerged when the offside rule was changed in mid '90s. Football has evolved. Go read about football tactics and formation. You will also get to read why the 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 is the most used.

4-3-3
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4-2-3-1
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coogar: wenger said he played 4-3-3 - stop arguing. you cannot know more than wenger himself. RVP has played in 4-3-3 for club & country and he's thrived there. whoscored is just an opinion - they sometimes even paste the formation before the game.....you cannot totally rely on them for accurate info.

Just as Gaal says he plays 3-5-2.

coogar: so if mata is an AM, is that not a midfielder abi you never chop today?

3-4-1-2 = 3-5-2.
it's basically defenders, midfielders & forwards. AM/DM/CM/LM/RM/RDM/LDM are all midfielders otherwise 4-4-2 isn't 4-4-2....it's 2-2-2-2-2.

Now you are back to basics. For purpose of analysis here, we know 4-3-3 is not same as 4-2-3-1 where one of the midfielders is expected to be in the hole.

The 4-3-3 we talk about is akin to what Moyes played against City at OT when Fellaini was on the left of (central) midfield, Cleverley on the right and Carrick/Fletcher in their middle. This leaves three forwards to concentrate and the number 9 as a false striker- not an inbox striker. This is what I thought someone recommended in order to choke the mnidfield. Arsenal don't play this way, they always have an attacking midfielder. This is why whoscored captured it that way.

coogar: this is why people think you are the opata king. coaches don't pay attention to details? why are they coaches then?



elampiro, what formation did holland play in WC2010 & Euro2012?

* Yes in formation, coaches don't pay attention to these numbers. Gaal counts Mata as one of our 5 midfielders in a 3-5-2. Is Mata not in the hole or an AM?

* World cup 2010 and Euro 2012 how many goals did RVP score?

coogar: elampiro, don't rewrite football tactics. there's 4-3-3 in variants. the 3 in the midfield can have 2 as a pivot and one at the tip. sometimes the 3 in the midfield can have one in the pivot & 2 in front of him(barcelona, the arsenal formation debosky posted)......even sometimes the 3 in the midfield can line up horizontally flat!


your assertion that van persie cannot thrive in 4-3-3 is flawed. that's what his country plays & he was the highest goal scorer in the WCQ with 11 goals. he shouldn't be scoring that many goals if he's useless in a 4-3-3 formation.

* Simple question? What does whoscored say?

* Forget about country. That one Arjen Robben will be three man and RVP will score 3 goals against Kosovo.

debosky: Wenger says Arsenal changed their formation to 4-3-3 due to the players we had which brought the best out of Van Persie but Elampiro says it's not 4-3-3. Who do you believe? Amodu's sidekick or Arsene?

Arsenal played 4-3-3 with RVP. If you can't understand that then your problems are worse than I thought.

Coaches don't pay attention to details in terms of formation. That's why a coach who plays 3-4-1-2 will tell you he plays 3-5-2 or 4-4-3. One who plays 4-2-3-1 will tell you he plays 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3. One who plays 4-4-2 might call it 4-2-4.

The question about 4-3-3, is there one operating as an Attacking Midfielder? If yes, then it's no 3 man midfield.

coogar: van gaal plays 3-4-1-2. it's up to you to add 1 to 4 to get 5 but mata's role is to operate in the hole.

Same way it's up to user to deduce that Rosicky or Ramsey played as an AM. That's no longer 4-3-3.

coogar: that's 4-3-3.......
4 defenders, 3 midfielders, 3 forwards.

van gaal plays 3-4-1-2. it's up to you to add 1 to 4 to get 5 but mata's role is to operate in the hole.

What did whoscored say? What did ZM say? This chart debosky presented is from where?

Everyone knows Arsenal don't play 4-3-3. In a 4-3-3, One midfielder would be far upfield close to the final 3rd as an AM. The striker would we deeper and not a box striker like Chicha.

Debosky,

Your formation is no even 4-3-3, it's 4-1-2-3 or 4-1-2-2-1.


Song is alone.

debosky: If Arsene says he has switched to a 4-3-3 what formation are they playing other than 4-3-3? Did Wenger say he played 4-3-2-1 or is that something you just pulled out of your behind?

This is not an occasional switch - this is the switch that allowed RVP to score more goals for Arsenal over an 18 month period. Or is playing the same formation for 18 months now 'occasional'?

[img]http://gunnerarchitect.files./2011/12/arsenal-4-3-3.jpg[/img]



What nonsense are you babbling? Wenger was simply saying when he played Walcott/Arshavin/Gervinho, he had to play 4-3-3 with RVP in the middle beside two wingers = what rubbish are you going on about Rozzi in the hole?

Whether occasional or regularly for 18 months, your statement that RVP has never played 4-3-3 is both idiotic and thoroughly dim-witted.

Rubbish! Nonsense!

One of your three midfielders operated behind the striker and between the wingers. I am sure this was why you guys bought Ozil as the natural player to operate there after you lost Nasri, instead of covering.

If Gaal says United plays 3-5-2, are we to just swallow it even though we know Mata is playing in front of the midfield?

* In 2012/13 RVP also played between two wingers in United, but in front of Rooney or Giggs or Kagawa.

30/08/2014 16:00, Report by Ryan Grant

Van Gaal discusses van Persie and Blind

Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal insists Robin van Persie must be eased back into first-team action following the World Cup.

Van Persie made his return to the United side last week following an extended break for his exertions in Brazil, and played an hour of the Reds' 1-1 draw with Sunderland.

The striker lasted 73 minutes against Burnley on Saturday before being replaced by Danny Welbeck, and van Gaal believes his reintroduction should be a gradual process.

"He played 60 minutes in his first game back and 70 minutes today, so I think it’s a case of building up his game time," he said. 

"It's frustrating, but it’s part of the world of football, because of the World Cup. It’s a pity, but we have to do it because otherwise he wouldn’t be fit for the season."

Van Gaal guided the Netherlands to third place at the tournament earlier this summer and also commented on Dutchman Daley Blind's imminent transfer to Old Trafford. 

"He’ll come to Manchester to have a medical, and then we might have a new player," the boss said, adding: "I think it’s very smart of the manager [to have three left-sided defenders]."
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2014/Aug/Louis-van-Gaal-discusses-Robin-van-Persie-and-Daley-Blind.aspx?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ManUtd

..... Three left backs Ukwu!!!

chrisley024: You blame your defence. Evans even made assists.

There was no quality in the attack. They were so confused.

By deadline day, 6 players are supposedly coming in, 10 are heading out the door. (Sky Sports)

Debosky, is this what you call 4-3-3? Where you have Rosicky or Ramsey in the whole? RVP in the box as the arrow head? In a 4-3-3 you have a false 9 because he has to be involved in the build up. Wenger counted the player in the hole as a midfielder, hence 3 midfielders in the interview.

........
Wenger:
“So at the end of the day we have top quality players who are wingers, and once you play two of those, it’s difficult to add another striker up front with Robin as well.”

-Wenger on why they don't play 4-4-2.

debosky: Arsenal played a 4-3-3 with RVP playing centrally. I don't need whoscored.com to tell me what Arsenal's formation was.

This is what Arsene himself said -


“He has done well up front since we have switched to more of a 4-3-3, but I must say that I don’t play this system just to suit Robin, because I’m sure that Robin would be just as suited – if not even more so – as a second striker.

Stop swallowing whoscored.com info hook, line and sinker without using your brain.

You failed to understand the interview. Arsenal plays 4-2-3-1.mostly, it doesn't mean there are no occasional switches in formation. Moreover, there's nothing like a second striker in a 4-3-3 formation.

Another thing, Gaal might say we play 3-5-2 whereas it's 3-4-1-2 when broken down. Some even call it 3-4-3.

chrisley024: How are Mata, Rooney and RVP even better than Kagawa, Welbeck and Chicha?

No go there o.

You want us to collect 4-0 from a 3rd div side+ total poo play?

SailorXY: you don wear the matter for head again like shower cap, as usual. The needless free-kick was not an error, it was senseless bravery. that made him accumulate spells on the sidelines last season, he should fine tune his game. nobody says he is not talented, I will even play him in midfield ahead Fletcher & co @ the moment.

as for Mata, I already recommended his drop alongside Rooney. captain or no, they both have been frauds so far...

There are mistakes that can be over looked because of the age of the player. It is left for the coach to gradually bring him to his best. Pepe at 27 was still playing that way. I heard Mourinho had to make Pepe play against ladies in training. These things are systematically done, because if you try to stop such players from playing too clean, you might take their unique character out of them.

debosky: What formation did RVP play in at Arsenal? You just like to talk nonsense like it's your middle name.

RVP was the arrow man in a lone striking formation. Go check it out on whoscored.com

SIRcumalot: Has Mata been impressive in his "supposed" favoured position ?
A playmaker should be effective from whatever positon he plays in Silva plays wide for City,Fabregas is so good He makes plays from the Pivot position.
Hopefully Falcao leaves for Madrid and Monaco comes for RVP. Rooney was Equally horrible but he is the face of Utd he isn't going anywhere.
Maria created two clear chances I think this is a good sign.

Last season, we were be told lies that our game was poor, and that everyone (midfeild, wingers and striker) was poor because of number 10 was poor. Fast forward nearly a year later, it's the reverse. They say our number is poor because our midfield and wingers aren't working. What they wouldn't allow me say last year.





I love life.

SailorXY: I'm.not blaming him per say, but his game need refinements. that early needless free-kick he conceded before the second minute could have cost us the game

There is no way errors won't happen in football. Di Maria, Anderson, Young made errors in our box area yesterday that could have cost us. At the other end, Mata couldn't even kick a ball from 14 yards to score, instead he fell. Many of you close your eyes to poo of certain players and hold others to a higher standard. Even experience defenders like Terry, Pepe, Ramos, Komapany make similar mistakes. Jones was very good yesterday.

In a 4-3-3, RVP and Mata will be useless. I doubt if they have even played it all their lives. 4-3-3 is more counter attack oriented where you get lot of men behind the ball and run some yards down into the final 3rd. Di Maria, Rooney, Welbeck, Nani/Val will be most effective. Rooney needs to be told to drop deep (it looks like Giggs told him) in order to play facing the opposing defence. He plays backing the defence these days and his work rate is gone. It might even affect his fitness in the long run.

... Are they now sayng Blind was a wrong buy? So why was I celebrating?

SailorXY, how can you possibly blame Jones

Rooney+RVP+Mata have lost us more points than they have won since playing together. Rooney and RVP can't keep the ball. Mata can keep the ball but cannot travel with it. Only one or two should start for us. Infact one of them should be sold latest January is they can't lift their game and ge their acts together once we have a stable defence and midfield.

One observation, we have too few men behind the ball. It has been like that from last season, and it got worse with 3-5-2. When our defence have the ball, there are about four opponents lurking around to take a swift advantage of any mistakes.

if we got a solid backline and midfield, our forward play would be better. We have a lot of men who aren't comfortable on the ball.

The third match in a row now we are being robbed of penalties. Young was clearly fouled today.

Whether we are rebuilding or not, we ought to win these kind of fixtures we are losing points. Too bad Di Maria has injury concern.

Manchester United is delighted to announce it has reached an agreement with Ajax to sign Daley Blind, subject to a medical and personal terms.

A further announcement will be made when the process is complete.

-MUFC official fb

*BREAKING NEWS*
Daley Blind is set to join Manchester United from Ajax for around £14million, according to reports in Holland.

The two clubs have agreed a fee, and the player just needs to agree personal terms, which is expected to be a formality.

[Source: De Telegraaf, Daily Mail]

Cristiano Ronaldo said that if he explained why he believes Lionel Messi won the Golden Ball at the World Cup in Brazil, he could end up in jail.

lol

Is CR7 trying to tell there was some bribery?

Mascherano: Madrid have made a mistake selling Di Maria

Aug 29, 2014 19:58:00
Los Blancos sold the winger to Manchester United this week for €84 million but the Blaugrana ace says the capital club have just got rid of one of "top 10 players in the world"

Barcelona midfielder Javier Mascherano believes that Real Madrid have made a massive mistake by selling Angel Di Maria.

The European champions could pocket a grand total of €84 million from the winger's move to Old Trafford, which was completed earlier this week.

However, Mascherano believes that his fellow Argentine will be sorely missed at the Santiago Bernabeu.

"It’s not an issue that concerns me but I think they’ve lost out,” Mascherano told Mundo Deportivo.

"He’s a player I like a lot. He’s among the top 10 in the world.

"He adds balance to attack and defend and has a great engine. You can use him in many positions."

Mascherano looked set to switch clubs himself at the end of last season, with Napoli having been hopeful of luring the versatile defender to the San Paolo.

However, after a stellar World Cup campaign, the 30-year-old ultimately signed a contract extension with Barcelona, much to Mascherano's delight, given that he did not want to endure a divorce as difficult as the one he went through with former club Liverpool.

“A relationship with a club is like a marriage," he mused. "The two sides have to get along. If in doubt, it’s better to talk about it and not come to the worst.

“I remember leaving Liverpool not as I would have liked and I would regret it for a lifetime if the same thing happened to me with Barca.

“The club sensed something at the end of the season. Obviously I’m very grateful I was told I could continue.

“Before the World Cup I had a short conversation [with coach Luis Enrique] that let me know they wanted me.”

Mascherano departed Anfield in 2010 in acrimonious circumstances, with the player having to publicly deny having refused to play in a game against Manchester City before his exit.

Goal.com