₦airaland Forum

Oghos1: stop dodging d question. Answer it then we can argue. No need for baseless generalizations. Would u prefer him to carrick and fletcher? Yes or no

Yes. At the moment. I have said this countless times.

SailorXY: What Elampiro is trying to say is that Jones in midfield has reduced the way teams roll over us & gain easy access to our defence. Aside pre-sabbatical Fletcher among the midfielders we have now, he is the only guy that gets in the faces of opponents, puts his foot on the line in a 50-50 tackle, come out with the ball & even drive it forward with boldness or release the ball to a skillful teammate & dash into the box with an eye for goal. The other guys are Anderson (who is perpetually benched for whatever reason) & Fellaini (who needs time to fully settle).
The statement doesn't mean Moyes should not strengthen the midfield, it simply means Jones is among the better players we can deploy in the middle of the pitch as far as now now now is concerned
This is the simple truth, I don't even know why it calls for argument

This is my argument. Thanks.

Oghos1: those two scenarios are soo not d same jare.
And just lyk jones, rooney in midfield should be plan b or c.

.
. The bolded cracks me up. ALWAYS.

On a more serious note.
Are u tryna say jones in midfield > carrick, cleverley and fletch??

Dude, seriously??

Currently. He should play until we are sure others can fly. A team like Stoke or Villa could have been 2 or 3 nil up at half time today. Midfielders have two functions, protecting the backline and supporting attack. All our midfielders (except Fletcher) are not supporting attack as we see happen in City or Chelsea. But only Jones is guaranteed to protect our backline at the moment. He is also the one appearing to be bursting 30 yards forward. Currently, I support his partnership with Cleverley.

My next patnership is Cleverley + Fletcher.

At the moment.

dademola: elampiro, u r using % win ratio to rate one player over the other, i'm i'm telling u it isnt a reasonable method! Weda u like it or not, butnner has a good % win ratio for us, yet u wnt see pple clamouring for him to replace evra!

You miscued. Evra vs Buttner. Evra has been involved in all our important wins that got us something. UCL, League etc. Even the important Carling cup matches. But Buttner has only be involved in low profile matches, yet he lost some. Should you do a list of matches Buttner missed, you will see that he earns salary for free.

Jones vs (Carrick, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Giggs)

When you put down the matches Jones played vis avis the ones others played, you will understtand why he's the most important man for us at the middle of the park this season. He has partnered every other midfield player (except Ando) and he delivered across several big stages. I think he won 5-0, 3-0 and some more with Giggs. Same Giggs we know he's finished.

dademola: why is ramires better??

This season, I don't see what Ramires has done that Jones has not done. Jones has been involved in all our massive victories. He was out in our biggest defeat. It is also a case against your Buttner argument. Buttner has been away in our most important results since he arrived Old Trafford. So your use of Buttner is senseless.

Generally, Ramires can be said only to be second to another energetic player, Toure. Williams too is also energetic. These guys are currently doing better than our sluggish midfielders (Carrick and Fellaini)


I am abit busy and arguing on my phone. May be I will log on to my laptop laer to argue well.

dademola: bros... We hardly lose when buttner plays- go n check d records from last season!! I ask again; does it mean he shud be 1st choice rather than evra?? Its a simple question nau...

Don't you get it? How many matches does he play? What are the quality of those matches? Capital 1 cup?

His first real match this season was against West Brom. He was dominated completely.

Oghos1: Dude.
Jones shouldn't be anytin more than an emergency midfielder. He's a defender and should be left to play and improve as a defender.

Then why were some of you suggesting Rooney should play in the midfield? He is a striker he should play in the 10 or 9, not on the left or CM some ayagayagayagayos fans suggested.

If Lindegaard can get us result from the midfield where others fail, he should play there. No sentiments.

dademola: which stats are credible?? U talked about our winning ratio when jones plays, and i brought up d butner/ evra comparism! From ur deluded logic, if welbeck has a higher win-ratio of games compared to RVp, does it mean d ghanian boy is better??

Buttner doesn't have any yeye winning ratio. He lost 1-0 to West Ham.

Jones has played about 70 - 80 percent of our games and you can not use Buttner who has 5% games to compare. Your logic is foul.

coogar: please, stop yearning opata...
jones isn't a midfielder. he's a very good defender if partnered with one of smalling or evans. carrick is our best midfielder by a distance, not jones or the heart attack football you seem to love.

Players can be converted. He's doing his job well in both positions. You guys are refusing to see how greatly or useful he's been to us in the midfield because you guys feel he is not a natural mifielder or you have already form an opinion about him.

dademola: so ramires is a better midfielda than jones because the former has more energy?? Arguing with u wld definitely be time-wasting! I'm out!!

Who has said Ramires is better because of energy? Both players are energetic, mobile and pacy. Same with Luiz.

Ramires get energy na. Those 40 yards you think say na moimoi?

dademola: stop all these rubbish yarns jare!! Wich yeye big culprit? It was carrick who held ferdinand's legs that day abi?? I know u like energetic players like jones buh Lemme even ask u; who would u pick if u were to choose btwn ramires and jones?? Give reasons..

Which rubbish? He chased back lazily and allowed that West Brom player to mess up Ferdi. A tackle before them could have helped Fedi. We were bullied all day by West Brom.

Jones is already being listed as one of Man United top 5 players this season (half season appraisal). That's from his midfield role 'cos most of his games are from there.

dademola: since we hardly lose wen buttner plays, from ur logic; buttner shud be starting ahead of evra!! Some of the things u type..nawa oo!!left to u, man utd shud be playing a 3- man mf of jones, jones and jones...

Buttner came on against West Ham and lost one nil. I guess you understand? Lol

Jones stat and Buttner are not the same. Jones has been the busiest of our midfielders. So his stats are credible.

dademola: u are high on some wet weeds bro- pls pass d splif to anoda person

Carrick didn't play well before he left. He only had a good game against Leverkusen and Palace both at Old Trafford. I doubt if there was another.

He was a big culprit when West Brom dimmed us.

As for proof. Before these set of 6 straight victories which started with Jones goal against Shakhtar, I gave stat of the matches Jones has played vis a vis the stat of the matches he was away. He has given us far more better results.

Now he was involved in a run of 4 of the 6 successive wins. In those four matches, Buttner caused us what should have been a clean sheet for 360 mins of football. Stoke did not have a shot on target against us. We were in control of our midfield, although we could say Rooney dropped deep. But against Hull, Jones was absent and we lost our command of the defence- mdfield inter play. We were cheaply exposed and Hull scored two quick goals, and we could have conceded four at half time today.

StarBoard: Pray tell us what the argument is.
You've been saying he (Jones) is our best midfielder without any factual backing, even when it obvious that is a fallacious statement.
I don't know where or how you arrived at the conclusion that Jones tackles better or controls better.
Until we buy a decent midfielder to take the burden off Carrick (who was injured and is apparently being rushed back from an Achilles injury), we won't get anywhere, even with Jones in the lineup as a central midfielder.
Every man to his own. You're entitled to your opinion but don't force it on others without proof.

Jones tackles better and controls better so far this season. If you have been watching all our matches, you will notice this. He doesn't just do the simple pass unless necessary. Also, he is the best coverage for our backline so far.

Did you not see Cleverley heading to our opponents inside same 18 box or 20 yards? Headers he could have directed away from our opponents.

I don't want to easily believe any excuse for Carrick because he was poor before his injury.

My only hope for now is Fletcher. He is so balanced when he gets the ball. He creates enough space for himself and switches play beautifully well.

Lastly, note that when I call Jones a midfielder, I do so because he plays there now. If Walcott is used as a striker for Arsenal and he bangs in goals where Giroud fails, I can say Walcott is Arsenal best striker. It doesn't mean I am not aware he is a natural wing player.

dademola: we could not pass d ball with d required precision and speed so as to facilitate openings/creation of chances, yet elampiro sees d absence of jones as d cause of d problem. Smh

You don't look at one fault. There were several faults today.

The forwards players were at fault for allowing Norwich to gain any confidence. When they were jittery, we couldn't shake them or try to unsettle them, instead we resort to many slow, simple, short passes, mostly back passes. Then when they started to believe they could upset us, there was no one to take the ball from them. We resorted to useless positional marking and deep defending.

It has been reported that Manchester United boss David Moyes has confirmed he intends to buy in January. Moyes spoke with MUTV about next month’s transfer window.

“I think we would like to do so. I would hate to get everyone’s expectations high thinking that we are going to be bringing in lots of players. The one thing I will say is that the club financially will support me in whatever we want to do or try to do. Getting the players in this window is the hardest part.

“At a club like United, we want to sign the best, elite players. A lot of them might be at other clubs right now and might not be gettable. If we can, we will try and do something. That’s going to take some time. I can’t do that right away.

“I think if I’d had done that straight away, folk will have said, ‘Why would you change round all the stuff Sir Alex Ferguson has done?’ It’s a gradual change. Obviously, players will come and go, that’s football.

“That will take a little bit of time. I hope it doesn’t take much time. I think most people understand that it will take a little bit of time to settle in. You have a squad at Manchester United. I’m getting to know the players.” [MUTV, totalfootballmadness.com]

StarBoard: and I will reply you with the simple fact that Jones is not a midfielder. Or are you going to debate that?
Until you get that fact, and start soliciting for a decent purchase to solve that particular problem, and deploy Jones in his natural position as center back, you're just yarning yarns.

This was not even the argument.

The coach knows Jones is not Fabregas or Song or whoever. If Fellaini and co were doing well would we fall back on Jones? Jones is tackling better, even controlling the ball better than almost all the rest midfielders. May be I can only remove Fletcher in the ball control. Jones is even more forward driving, tearing yards....

Last season, David Luis was in the middle of the park for Chelsea. Every player has a secondary or more position.

StarBoard: And Phil Jones is the solution?

Since you mentioned Jones, I will reply you.

First, Fletcher is doing very great with his overall play. However, Jones has been our best in the midfield by a thousand miles. Look at the last two matches without Jones. The shots off and on target, plus corner kicks against us have increased geometrically.

Hull City 6 Fulham 0

Man City could only shoot one past Palace. Fatigue setting in, their players are older.

SailorXY: See how these jonkies dey waste counter in favor of time wasting mtcheeew

It was okay sha. But they should have shot that free kick directly.
....................

*** Giggs should not be staring for us again na. See Fletcher, Anderson, yet we go start Giggs in the midst of soft players. There should always be the right mix.

This referee had an agenda before o.

Thank God.

SailorXY: We are missing the young back-line & Jones in the middle. This back pass na useless football
#Kagawa out for Januzaj
I expect a goal from Hernandez now

I agree. Vidic in the defence is part of our problem. Then Carrick is part of it and Young.

I think we should bring on Fletcher now for Chicharito.

@dademola, you dey see Carrick?

Also, this Young sef?

coogar: who said anything about being banned? rice dey inside your head?

goal!!!!

without rooney, united can score!

And who said United cannot score without Rooney?

Thank God.

Let's go for a 2nd goal.

coogar: elampiro
afrodoc
dademola


well done o......
i know ogbeche's myopia will not let him see the comments posted now until i decide to retaliate. it's only when coogar retaliates that the ban button becomes active.

however, i won't....i am still in the christmas mood.

Lol

We didn't know you were banned na. We thought you went on Sabbatical. Welcome back.

coogar: welbeck coming on for giggsy....

the 2nd half should be better but moyes is a fool for playing smalling in the full-back position.

He is out now.

dademola: Elampiro, if jones was in mf today, hw wld it hav improved our lacklustre passing and zero creativity?? Pls explain...

With Welbeck on the pitch:

Norwich will have less time on the ball with won tackles. He will not give them so much space. He is also a very good forward going player these days.