₦airaland Forum

dademola: agreed!! wot about our offensive play??

Agreed it was poor. But if we learn to hold our opponents to deadlock, it's better. At 0-0, the subs could have won the game. Had our defence and midfield be solid, Cleverley would play better and link with the forwards. Playing newly recovered Carrick in a two man midfield exposed us, plus sluggish Vidic.

meracool: Moyes with Wrong Subs.....

11points away from the Top....

This is Unaccpetable

The subs were okay. Had Valencia not made a mistake we could have gotten something or even win when Young came on as the third sub.

If we had a young back line, there was no harm in playing 3-5-2.

Bright De Gea: we do not have defenders and midfielders, that's what I know

We started the game well. The first attack by Totteham troubled us and we were shaking at the back from then on. individual errors by Smalling and Valenica cost us. But it also goes back to the fact that the defence was bullied and easily torn apart.

From hindsight, a three man midfield should have favoured us- Fletcher, Carrick/Rooney and Cleverley.

We lost on a day all our rivals won.

See as them dey piece our defence.

dademola: Our Forwards are not offering anything offensively, yet elampiro will blame it on d absence of jones in Mf...smh

Can't you see the midfield is a big worry?

Fletcher should come in for whoever.

OMG! It has to be Rooney complaints from peeps again in this new year?

I beg Rooney hasn't done anything bad. Our poor defence and midfield being outpaced and bullied is the major problem so far. Man United were in control until Spurs easily used speed open us up twice.

SailorXY: Argument for me is a waste of talent
I think stating your points/back up/summary over 3 or 4 submissions does it
afterall, the guy who opposed ur points from the beginning will still stand his ground 10 pages later

This is a very sensible post.

coogar: even if you are blind, you should see rooney had the lowest number of total passes in the list. he made the lowest passes in the defensive half & the highest passes in the attacking half. your stats have defeated you, elampiro.........go to bed!


this is the final nail on elampiro's coffin....

https://eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Wayne-Rooney.png

the similarity in 09/10 & 11/12 suggest rooney operated in the same position throughout. look at his assists in those seasons, min/goal, overall contribution & compare to the other seasons.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1492977_image_jpg0d5b1c4c7f720f698946c7f6ab08f687

elampiro has been destroyed finally - this is another stat comparing RVP's stats with rooney's stat in 11/12 season. they had similar stats too(the stats of true centre forwards).

Happy New Year to you Coogar. Today is a day to rejoice and be happy. It's not easy to see another year without having major issues in ones life. We give thanks to God (I hope you are a believer in God?) For this reason, I will only shake hands with you today and laugh and laugh while hoping to laugh more should we win.

No matter the outcome of today's match, may God banish the spirit of excessive argument. However, I noted your post above so that I can clarify some obvious things. By quoting you, you cannot change your wording on the post. See you on this tomorrow.

Do enjoy your day and greetings to your family.

Welcome 2014. Make God make it fruitful for everyone.

Happy New Year people.

God's abundance blessings, love and prosperity shall be our inheritance.

coogar: you are such an idïot.....
this is why illiterates shouldn't be allowed to handle stats. the stats you posted put rooney in passes in the final third(where strikers should be anyways). rooney i am sure played the most games in our team in the attack so how does your stats prove rooney played as a 10?

Ayagayagayagayo hei ayagayagauyagayo

What about other 19 teams numbers 9 and 10 strikers/players. Why are they not on the list? Only midfielders.

coogar: stop talking like an idiöt.....
rooney had 7 assists...valencia(14), nani(12), young(11). between our wingers, they contributed 37 league assists that season. that alone should tell you united played 4-4-2 & not the lie you are telling us.



you are a goat.....
4411 formation was only deployed twice. my chart even highlighted the result of those games. 442 was used 31 times & in a 442, there's no AM. there's a CF1 & CF2

Rooney didn't play 9 again, now it's CF2. Ukwu!!! Dem do dey confess.

If Rooney played 9. He must be super human to be 3rd on this list.


Off to church. More info to come.

I will re-dig out the figures of other players.

coogar: stop lying.....
in 11/12, rooney didn't drop deep anywhere. he scored plenty of goals & assisted less. how can rooney cop 2,800 mins with about 7 assists to show for it? number 10 & his productivity is 1 assist every 400 minutes? yea right!!!

Liar.

Rooney was the 3rd highest passer in the final 3rd. The only number 10 player, other nine players are all midfielders.

Chichja had 16 games. Welbeck had 20 games. A chart here already showed Welbeck was used in front of Rooney in a 4-4-1-1 formation.

[quote author=tess_1]If you don't believe the article i posted, why should i believe yours. As far as i am concerned, those four articles have cancelled each order out. I even believe the one i posted the more because it aligned with the facts that are on ground. So your must be a dubious article.

So you want to tell me that you didn't see where it was written that the most used formation in that season was 4-4-2 and it was used 31 times out of 38 league matches. You need to go and get a pair of glasses to be able to read properly. Or is it that you were dazed by those facts?

I don't even have that time to continue an argument that is done and dusted.

I rest my case.[/quote]In 4-4-2 there is a lead striker. Always in Man United.

I have several articles about Rooney/Welbeck 2011/12. It was mainly 4-4-1-1 with Rooney dropping to midfield while Welbeck/Chicha led the attack.

[quote author=tess_1]Rooney has even played as no 9 in this season but elampiro may dispute this as well.[/quote]In what ratio to the times he played as 10? In 3 years time, you will argue he played 9 tthrough out.


Time for church. We will continue the argument.

coogar: yes, it did.
the article generally summarised the difference in rooney's position. you need to learn the difference between CF/SS & AM. I think your problem is you dunno the difference between SS & AM.

In 2011/2012 Rooney played mostly as an AM. He was dropping deep to exchange passes with Scholes while he frees himself into the box as crosses come in.

Something close to what he played against Norwich last week.

[quote author=tess_1]Lol! Where is the superior argument? The article and Rooney's quote have already countered all the articles you posted. What remains to be countered are the facts/records presented by Coogar and I. And that is the truth. When there are facts/records, they will always remain the true source(s) of information. You need to go to the Courts and see where facts/records supersede oral evidence.[/quote]The article says nothing. Just general statements which I read a zillion years ago. You and Coogar have not brought any data. You brought a chart when Welbeck was 9 and Rooney was 10 in same match they played.

Rooney was played very deep in 2011/12. He also played in RM, CM too.

Chicha and Welbeck were 9. Chicjha alone had 16 matches and Welbeck 20. They might have a few in beween.

By this weekend, I will argue this matter better. Even if it means taking one match at a time over all 38 matches.

RuuDie: Dude. All that is HOGWASH!

UTD, like many other teams play 2-strikers... and it is only normal that one of 'em drops deeper than the other. Doesn't make him any less a striker... and that article categorically states "DEEP-LYING FORWARD", MIDFIELDER nor DEFENDER. So pack your face!
Also, there are many games (and I mean, many) in the last 3 seasons where Rooney has been played as the lone striker - why do you think his (Rooney) game/minutes double/triple that of other strikers.

9 and the half my grandmother's a$$!

There are many names for number 10. Did you not see where it was sated he played left side of midfield and central midfield?

Chicha played 16 matches as number 9. Welbewck played ahead of Rooney. It was clearly stated that Welbeck and Chicha were 9. Tess1 showed a chart where Welbeck was 9 and Rooney 10.

The formation was mainly 4-4-1-1.

Stat showed Rooney was one a top passer from midfield that season. Then he was number 3 passer behind Nasri and I think Silva, in the final 3rd. The only number 10 on the list.

Rooney must be an alien to be one of the top midfield passers, high creator from a 9.

coogar: this boy go kill elampiro today.

tess_1, when did you start supporting united? you seem very intelligent about the tactical side of football.



do we need any further evidence to substantiate rooney was an arrowhead in 11/12?

That was just a general statement, it didn't analyse 2011/2012 season.

[quote author=tess_1]Ahaha! You didn't disappoint me a bit. I knew this is where you are heading to when you said you don't need any facts/records to buttress your point.

I want you to juxtapose what you posted with this:

Wayne Rooney: Man Utd striker 'didn't want to play in midfield'

Wayne Rooney says he considered his future at Manchester United last summer because he was played out of position by former manager Sir Alex Ferguson.

The England striker, 27, was linked with a move to Chelsea, but has scored five goals for the Old Trafford club this term under new boss David Moyes.

"I got told to play in midfield and I didn't want to," said Rooney.

"I just think there had to come a point when, for my own career, I had to be a bit selfish really."

Rooney, speaking for the first time about his reasons for considering his future, says his performances last season were affected by not playing in "my position".

He was subsequently dropped by Ferguson for the second leg of United's Champions League quarter-final against Real Madrid, which prompted questions about his future during the summer - and attracted two bids from Chelsea.

"Everyone at the club knew where I wanted to play and I think that's why I was disappointed," said Rooney, who has scored 36 goals in 84 games for England.

"I actually felt when I played in midfield I did OK, but I didn't want to play there. I've had no problem in the past playing out of position. But I felt I deserved the right to play in my position and that wasn't happening.

"I think, naturally, I was a bit disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. I know myself that last year wasn't my best season but there were times when I was playing in different positions.

"I didn't feel I got a consistent run of games up front. Sometimes when you're not playing in one position all the time it's difficult to adapt."

Under Moyes - the manager who gave him his professional debut at Everton - Rooney has been a regular starter up front this season, alongside Robin van Persie.

"David Moyes has come in, he's playing me up front and I'm enjoying it," added Rooney. "I'm not saying I wouldn't [go into midfield] for instance if it was the last 10 to 15 minutes of a game, if we were holding on a bit and I got asked to drop to the left, or drop back, to help see out the game.

"I'd always go in and try to help the team. I'm not saying I'd throw my arms up and not do it. I can play in midfield. Maybe when I'm a bit older, losing my legs a bit, I can go back there."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/24466899




ISMH! So you want me to believe this article when i have facts/records that proved otherwise. I can see that you believe so much in articles written by some bloggers in order to attract traffic to their websites. I can as well sit in the comfort of my home and write articles about Rooney and you will believe it.

If when you were born, your parents pent to the local govt to register your birth and you have a birth certificate to show for this. If somebody somewhere then woke up one day say write about you and wrote different date of birth for you and you choose to accept it as against the one registered for you, that is your own cup of gari.

Football of these days have facts/records which are produced and kept by heavily paid private organization. How do you now expect me to believe a blogger when these facts/records a readily available? You can only get facts from match day or through these paid organisation. I can only choose to believe this organizations and not all these bloggers who write whatever they like without facts.

Coogar even brought out some facts to prove to you that he played as a no 9 but you choose to believe some articles.

This is also from another site. Read well and tell me which one to believe btw this and the one you posted. You will even see why Rooney's goals dropped from 2011/12 and 2012/13.

Tactical Analysis: Is Wayne Rooney playing as a no.10 or striker for Manchester United?

Wayne Rooney’s position has been subject to debate ever since he first burst onto the scene. Some would consider him a no.10, whilst others might suggest he is best as a lone striker following an impressive 27 goal haul as the focal point of Manchester United’s attack in 2011-12. The United forward claimed that he fell out with Sir Alex Ferguson over his position, with the United boss moving him into centre-midfield at times. So where does Wayne Rooney actually play?

Rooney’s role last season

The drop in goals from 27 in 2011-12 to just 12 league season is the result of a shift in position for Wayne Rooney. The signing of Robin van Persie meant that he was no longer the focal point of United’s attacks. Rooney was ‘relegated’ in a manner of speaking, to a no.10, an out and out attacking midfielder playing a support role. Rooney also registered ten Premier League assists from his slightly deeper position. One thing that caused him to put in a transfer request was allegedly the fact that he was dropped into central midfield on occasion, a position that was relatively unfamiliar for him. With van Persie though, he certainly was no longer the main striker and was clearly relegated to a deeper role behind the Dutch forward.

Wayne Rooney under David Moyes

David Moyes has been pretty amendment that he views Rooney as a centre-forward, shifting him from a deeper role to place him up front alongside Robin van Persie. If we look at the average position maps from Manchester United versus Bayer Leverkusen we could see this first hand:

Rooney (10) is playing alongside Robin van Persie (20) in what is essentially a conventional(ish) 4-4-2 formation. The same can be said of Rooney from the defeat to Manchester City. Even though he is alongside van Persie in his average position from this tie, he played a different role. Rooney touched the ball a total of 64 times and played 39 passes, van Persie on the other hand only played 24 passes and had just 48 touches of the ball. This is reflective in the two players action-area graphics.

Rooney spends a lot of his time dropping off the front, as we might expect of a no.10, despite having a similar average position to van Persie:

Despite being positioned as a striker he is dropping off a lot into the deeper areas we would associate with Wayne Rooney, a player who often drops back into midfield to pick up the ball and influence the play.

If we look at van Persie’s action areas, we can see it as more reflective of a centre-forward, with little dropping back and spending more time in the penalty area:

So despite being alongside each other, Rooney was still playing off of van Persie, albeit not quite as a number ten, but also not quite as a number nine, more of a hybrid. Something we can see from the 1-1 draw with Southampton

Rooney as a no.9 and a half?

What we can ascertain from Rooney’s form this season is that he is not really a number 10 any more. Rooney is playing further up the pitch nearer to Robin van Persie in what can loosely be described as a 4-4-2 formation. Rooney was also leading the line against Manchester City. Last year he was in support, which is why he enjoyed less goals for United. This season he has been better in front of goal but is still maintaining a high number of passes per game, an average of just over 45. To put that into context that is more passes per game than Arsenal’s Jack Wilshere and Chelsea’s Oscar.

One factor is that Robin van Persie has reduced his role to a pure no.9, who is no longer as involved in build up play as he was last year. RvP’s passing has reduced to averaging just 19.4 passes per game, down from 27 passes per game last season. Interestingly he is also creating less chances for his team-mates this year, with just 0.1 chances created per game, compared to 1.8 per game last season, a drastic shift in form and in the role he is playing. Rooney as such is having to work hard performing a duel role as a striker and as a no.10 to link things up, with RvP playing as a goal hanging forward now.

Rooney is more than capable of playing as a striker, as he did very well for United in 2011-12 and as he often does for England to great effect. He is also very adept as a number ten, playing in support, something he did better last season than he got credit for, he has also began to do this for England playing behind Daniel Sturridge which will be something to watch going into Brazil 2014.

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/12554

I can see that you read football on the interne instead of watching and analysing properly. You need real football education.[/quote]Learn to bow out when u see a superior argument.
In that article did you not see Rooney was quoted? I read it them in many media.

Rooney played number 10 in 2011/12. Then a little in midfield (CM and RM). Welbeck did not play behind Rooney.

^^^
Do you still believ Rooney was played in front of Welbeck?


Watch matches and analyse them well.

The Tactics Board- Nine and a half

July 13th, 2012

Nine and a half-

In the last season and a half, Wayne Rooney has made the deep-lying forward position his own. Sir Alex Ferguson has made the 4-4-1-1 his dominate formation. Wayne Rooney plays as the deep-lying forward, with Javier Hernandez or Danny Welbeck working in front of him. This allows Rooney to drop deep into midfield, and spread the ball out to the striker and wingers in front of him, while also remaining an extremely dangerous scoring threat himself. He’s able to be both a creator, and scorer.

Rooney plays a ‘Number 10′ extremely well. He is good with the ball at his feet, and he’s able to play quality short passes. In addition, he has a great tactical sense to pick out the right pass to create openings for others. The only problem is, his goal scoring abilities go to waste as a straight ‘Number 10′. In addition, he’s equally skilled as a ‘Number 9′. He’s got a lethal shot, and the strength and agility to work against defenders in the box. But, again, the problem is that his creative abilities go to waste as a straight ‘Number 9′.

Wayne Rooney is equally dangerous as a goal scorer, and a creator, making it hard to classify him. He is too complete a player to be classified as either a ‘Number 9′ or a ‘Number 10′, which leads him to be classified as something extremely rare: a ‘Nine and a half’.
http://redrants.com/the-tactics-board-nine-and-a-half/

Wayne Rooney isn’t the first player to be thought of as a ‘Nine and a half’. Marco Van Basten is one of the most common examples, but there are few players who have the skills and abilities to play this role. It’s hard to find a player that can both create chances for others, while also retaining a dangerous goal scoring threat. While these players are extremely rare to come across, they have become slightly more common now. With Dutch ‘Total Football’, and the playing style of the current Barcelona and Spanish National team, players are required to have better all-around skills. They are no longer allowed to just specialize on one typical playing style. Robbie Fowler is an ideal example. He was a dominate goal scorer. He didn’t have good pace, or speed, or agility, or ball control, but he could put the ball in the net. This type of player is no longer used, as Fowler is only 37 and last played for a team in Thailand.

The trend now is towards more complete forwards, in the mould of Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Lionel Messi. They all qualify as ‘Nine and a half’s, as well as being world class strikers. They are great goal scoring players, but they are also creative threats. Their creative abilities are great, and that makes them extremely valuable. Having the creativity, vision, passing ability, and tactical awareness necessary to create goal-scoring chances for their teammates, as well as being top notch strikers, makes them the key to their teams attack.
Playing a Nine and a half-

Teams struggle against a ‘Nine and a half’ for many reasons. The main advantage that ‘Nine and a half’s have is how versatile they are, and Wayne Rooney is a perfect example of this. In 2011/2012, he played as the lone striker up front, the deep-lying forward behind the main striker, the left-winger, and as a central midfielder. They are hard to shut down for the defense due to their variety of abilities, and it causes the defense many problems.
Playing a Nine and a half-

Teams struggle against a ‘Nine and a half’ for many reasons. The main advantage that ‘Nine and a half’s have is how versatile they are, and Wayne Rooney is a perfect example of this. In 2011/2012, he played as the lone striker up front, the deep-lying forward behind the main striker, the left-winger, and as a central midfielder. They are hard to shut down for the defense due to their variety of abilities, and it causes the defense many problems.

[quote author=tess_1]I don't even know which argument to follow again.

!. You said the top 9 was shared among Berba, Chicha and Welbeck.
Berba who only stated 5 games with 512 mins.
Welbeck who just came back from loan will lead our attack where Chicha and Rooney were available.

2. You said that Rooney never topped 9 for us.
Only for you to change that he may have been used as a 9 in one or two occasions out of 32 starts.

All these in the name of justifying how good he is. He hasn't done anything extra ordinary. What he is doing in Man Utd some other player can do better as a no 10. He is not the only player who has such a work rate in the world. Anyway that is what he is being paid for.

I am out of here.[/quote]Wayne Rooney: I love playing midfield but draw the line at right-back

Massimo Marioni Monday 21 Nov 2011 3:53 pm ⁠

Wayne Rooney insists he’s embracing his new role in central midfielder, and is happy to play anywhere for Manchester United – as long as it’s not right-back.

Middle of the action: Rooney (Picture: AP)

The 26-year-old has been deployed in a deeper position by Sir Alex Ferguson in recent weeks, presumably in a bid to fill the creative void left by Paul Scholes ’ retirement in the summer.

But Rooney suggests that even though he’s loving his new lease of life in the centre of the park, there is a limit to where he’s willing to perform.

‘I love it. I don’t care where I play. I’m just happy to be on the pitch, I’ll play anywhere.

‘Well, probably not right-back, no. But midfield is a role where you can get on the ball and influence the game a bit more.’

Rooney is likely to continue in the unfamiliar role for United’s Champions League clash against Benfica on Tuesday, and will be hoping to add to his three goals in the completion, despite not having found the net in the Premier League for two months.

http://metro.co.uk/2011/11/21/wayne-rooney-i-love-playing-midfield-for-manchester-united-but-i-draw-the-line-at-right-back-227524/

[quote author=tess_1]1. I asked you the other time that did you understand the meaning of what you said that Rooney never played as no 9. You are now saying he may have been drafted on 1 or 2 occasions out of 32 starts. Lololol!

2. Why has Rooney not been able to at least score more than 16 goals from the same position (10) in other 8 seasons? Answer me.

3. Welbeck was rarely used as a top 9. He was mostly used as AM or shunted to the LM/RM.[/quote]Welbeck was 9. Rooney played behind Welbeck and Chicha. Rooney also played n midfield tha season when injury came.

Stop bringing up irrelevant argument to simple fact.

Welbeck was 9 in 2011/12

Nani, Valencia, Young, Giggs had high paying time. JS Park aslo played some matches.

Check the stat.

[quote author=tess_1]I never said he didn't play as 9. I said SAF rarely use Welbeck as a 9. You were the one who said Rooney never played as 9 in that season.[/quote]When I said Rooney never played as number 9, I was only emphatically telling you that Rooney was not our number 9 that season. He may have had 1 or 2 occasions he was drafted there.

Chicha and Welbeck were our 9 that season.

Chciha had 16 games as 9. Telll me where else welbeck played?

Chicha + Welbeck 9
Rooney 10
Berba 9

[quote author=tess_1]Did you build build the facts in your head? Lol. Welbeck didn't play as 9 in that season. It was between Rooney and Chicha. Thank God you have remove Berba.

Rooney have played for United for over 10 yrs now. Lat's assume he has been playing as 10 as you have suggested. Why has he not scored more than 16 goals in a season apart from those two seasons? Why has he been inconsistent in his performances in the remaining 8 seasons? A no 10 that can score 26 and 27 goals in two different seasons should be averaging 20 goals per season. Why score 16, 14, 12 and 11 in other seasons? Definitely, it is either he has problem or their is a problem with your allusion.

The fact remains that Rooney was our lead striker in 2011/12.[/quote]1. Stop confusing facts. Rooney was 10 in that season.
2. If Welbeck didn't play 9, where did he play?
3. Answer the above, then I will give you an all round answer.


*** A number 9 cannot be a one of top ten passers from the midfield.

The problem I can see is that there are people here who have allowed themselves to brainwash as to think Rooney is not as good and not capable of the things he does. That's the probs on this thread. Many brainwashed people forming ally against Rooney. They think the men at Old Trafford managing the club are mediocres.

Nonsense!

Somethings sound too good to be true because it's Rooney. That's how good he is. That's why he earns so much and has outlived every other forward players in Man United. Only a legend spends 10 years in one club and still command so much.....

[quote author=tess_1]He gave us about 11 points with 1 goal wins and draws. Subtract 11 points from the number of points we used to win the league in that season, you will see that if he hadn't scored those goals we wouldn't have won the league then.[/quote]I thought it was even about 14 points sef.

Rooney gave us more than 11 points.

Chicha gave us more than 11 points.

Verify your facts.

[quote author=tess_1]1. Do you know the meaning of the bolded at all? I don't think so. This not about 'imagining'. It is about facts. My question to you is how many games did Rooney and Chicha started in that season? How many did Rooney started withouth Chicha? Go check your records.

2. So if you are not underrating him, who would you compare him to? Rooney is a striker and not a midfielder that is why he can score and assist from a withdrawn role. There is nothing so spectacular about that. Aguero and Tevez also do the same thing and that does not make them a midfielder. That is why he is earning so much from the purse of the club.

3. Don't even bring Berba in because he only started 5 games with 512minutes. Welbeck under SAF was either played as a winger or as a support striker. Rarely will you see SAF play Welbeck as a top 9. So, it was between Rooney and Chicha. Now, go and check your records and see how many games Chicha started with and without Rooney.[/quote]I don't need to check any record. It's the fact. Rooney was not 9.

You talk about Chicha. You forgotten Welbeck also played 9. Chicha alone had eaten about 16 maches from the number 9 position. Remaining only 22. Welbeck had about 22 matches. Although there could be some matches when Welbeck and Chicha were on the pitch together.

Rooney alone had about 31 matches. So when did he play number 9 in those 31 matches? I have not even mention some scratch of other top 9 as Berba, Machaida and Owen.

Don't argue what is so obvious.