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[quote author=A-40]Da phuck is class or brand? The only class and brand I recognize is trophies! Show us your UCL's FA Cups and League Titles
Bayern have more UCL's than Man U,Chelsea and Arsenal put together! So much for competition! Who cares about being renowned? Bayern have had more legends,more trophies,greater managers! Utd is Bayern's son! We no be mate rara

Saluda Campeones![/quote]Are you confused? Liverpool got to 5 UCL before you. Both you and Liverpool are not worth United in the market. Where is your class?

dayokanu: In Premier league era i.e Since 1992

21 League titles Man Utd won 13

In the same time frame 21 Bundesliga Bayern has won 11

Now tell us which giants are fighting for EPL when Man Utd has won over 60% of the titles

In the Premier league era

5 different teams have won the EPL

6 different teams have won the Bundesliga

So trophies won before 1992 are not relevant? Then deduct all such from Bayern trophy hall.

If you want to compare, go to the genesis.

To tell you EPL is more competitive, check the link you guys forwarded which ranked English football ahead of German.

dayokanu: Players go to clubs where they would win, Its only pre-pubescent girls who care about which club is more sexy.

Clubs are there to win trophies its only when losers fail to win trophies that they start insane awards like Best jersey, Finest WAGS, Gayest players, etc

Players go to club where they will fill their pockets and be proud. No club can make a player so rich and famous as much as United. Beckham can hire Zidane as his employee.

coogar: bundesliga is a one-man league.....
it's the weakest league in europe......bayern have won their league 23 times, the closest to them have won just 9 league titles(see the gaping difference). united have won it 20 times, liverpool(18 times) - you can see there's a very good competition here and you would see this closely-fought rivalry in most big leagues across europe except in germany!

Exactly why Bundesliga has weak followership. Even Scottish league is more competitive, at least there are two giant clubs there fighting every year, unlike Germany where Bayern is the sole giant.

dayokanu: Classy? What a retardded statement? What is classy? Is classy the reason football clubs are playing?

2 students sit for same exams and one leads in all subjects the other is asking who is more classy?

In footballing terms Bayern schools Man Utd every day of the week and twice on weekends deal with that

We are not mates on any level

May be you have forgotten the basics of the argument. The argument is about class.

Don't you get it, if your club and league had class it would attract more followers.

[quote author=A-40]When you claim what I say is nonsense you have insulted me already! So you started it bro

And I'm talking about class on the football pitch! 50 years from now no one would remember who was the sexiest player on E!,who sold the most jerseys and who had the most sponsors! What people would judge your "class" by is the number of hardware in your museum! That is why Beckham would never be higher than Ronaldinho or Zidane no matter how much money he makes or how many jerseys he sells[/quote]Who is talking about 50 years from now? We are talking about class or brand. Man United will remain a stronger brand over Bayern Munich. And EPL is a much renowned league than Bundesliga. After Bayern, which other Bundesliga league make wave in Europe consistently? The last ten years you have Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal always competing highly for the trophy. Anyway who watches Bundesliga. If not for German good economy nown your uninteresting classless league would die.

[quote author=A-40]Do you work for E! Or sumn? We dey talk of football you dey talk of sexiness? You well so?
We are talking about pedigree and footballing achievements you dey ask me make I ask women and media houses? You think footballers give a damn about that?[/quote]You are you well? Don't insult me please.

We are talking about being classy. What social class football has brought to players and team. What is the brand in the eyes of the public? How much value has your football placed over you?

dayokanu: Champions League

Bayern 5 Man Utd 3

Cup Winners Cup

Bayern 1 Man Utd 1

UEFA Cup

Bayern 1 Man Utd 0

Intercontinental Cup

Bayern 2 Man Utd 1


League

Bayern 23 man Utd 20

FA Cup

Bayern 15 Man Utd 11

If you like put AC Milan too with more UCL trophies, they and your Bayern are a weaker brand than Man United is sports. Put them in the market and their value will help you determine their class. If you had not used class, you will have a point.

It is not the babe who made the highest score in a class that is more classy. Beauty, personal attributes, packaging and ability to attract real suitors come in while determining class. Same way United class is able to woo investors and buyers. That's why United sells more Jersey and are most valued sports club. Class!

dayokanu: Total package? what is total package? Ronaldo is a better brand than Messi, Does that make him a better footballer than Messi?

Any player who leaves Bayern for Man Utd is taking a career step back



Check the ranking for 2012/2013

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html

The table in your link shows that Spain is 1st, England 2nd and Germany 3rd. That is the overall ranking over 6 years yet you were claiming Bundesliga is stronger. In 2013 it is normal to move Germany up because of this years UCL, just as Wigan can temporary be pushed above Man City in ranking due to their FA cup success. But clearly the table in your link ranked England higher than Germany on overall ranking.

dayokanu: Show us anything footballing that man utd exceeds Bayern.

Every trophy Bayern has more.

Did you say Bayern has more Trophy or you said it was more classy?

Man United is the strongest brand in sports followed by Madrid. May be you have to re-think about what you call class. If Bayern like they should win a million trophies, they will always remain inferior to Man United and Madrid in terms of brand. Same way Barca irrespective of their recent success is a weaker brand than Madrid in the eyes of the public.

[quote author=A-40]Man take a seat with this your Forbes nonsense! The New York Knicks are the most valuable franchise in basketball but only a mad man would compare them to the Celtics and the Lakers



Smh! I don't even know what to say about this! I'm guessing you are their accountant or sumn


Trophies that matter! I'm not talking about Principal's cup,Shell Cup,WAFU Cup and all that

23 League Titles
5 Champions League
2 Intercontinental Cups
1 Cup Winners Cup
1 UEFA Cup
15 FA cups[/quote]Class we are arguing. I am not arguing anything else with you for now. The club with the higher class is definitely more loved. Simple. Without class you can't brand and make sales ahead of the rest. So you use of class is nonsense, you should have chosen another word.

Ronaldo is more classing than Messi. Ask women and media houses. If they were to end their careers today, Ronaldo will be raking in more money from various sources, just as Beckham. Ronaldo is only the second footballer to be voted as world sexiest man by E- TV. Beckam was the first and Ronaldo twice. John Cena has been there too.

[quote author=A-40]What makes you class? Finest stadium? Highest selling jerseys?

United and Bayern are not mates by the any stretch of the imagination when it comes to the metrics that actually matter! We have more trophies,bigger players,bigger managers if this where the army Bayern are Major Generals and Man United are Colonels[/quote]I have told you that Forbes rates United as world most valued sports club (debt net off), and also most loved. It's the strongest brand in sports. Like an ambassador for sports.

Mr Charisma.

Zidane and Ronaldino are unknown outside football and will probably go broke soon, but Beckham's income lives forever from various sources. That's branding.

[quote author=A-40]What percentage of that 2 billion is debt free? Followership na him you dey take judge hehe dis one don miss road! The Knicks are more valuable than the Celtics that makes them better right?


Look at this jokester! Can you compare Ronaldo's achievements to Beckham? Even at that you dare not mention Ronaldo in the same breathe with Zidane. We are talking of a player's ability and you are talking about followership and wealth! I'm sure to you Drake is better than Nas


Lool @ this JJC! Come chase me comot nau![/quote]The start of the argument was class. I am not comparing players ability here. When Ronaldo finishes his career before you can start comparing him with Zidane.

Secondly, value here means he debt had been net off. Don't you know how forbes rates?

'Rooney' has been revealed as the top-selling name on the back of Premier League replica shirts over the past 20 seasons.

Football

The Manchester United striker has beaten Liverpool's Steven Gerrard to the honour with Fernando Torres in third followed by Cristiano Ronaldo and Frank Lampard.



The figures come from Sporting iD, the company that provides the numbers and letters for the shirts.

"Had David Beckham remained in the Premier League then this list might have looked different," said Rob Thayne, the company's global sales & marketing director.

"Certainly his move to Real Madrid in the summer of 2003 triggered record sales of 'Beckham 23' shirts, and before him Eric Cantona was a best seller.

The final analysis

"We first started producing Rooney's official player identity in 2002 after he made his professional debut with Everton at the age of 16. We then had to expand that production greatly following his move to Manchester United in the summer of 2004.

"But he truly went into a league of his own in 2007 when Ruud van Nistelrooy vacated the Manchester United number 10 and there is a global demand that shows no sign of abating."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17888426.

......... RVP has temporary moved to number 1 in shirt sales. Gerald is second in UK while Rooney is third. Rooney is second in the US. Kagawa was the highest selling for Dortmund but he is far behind in Manchester.

#Top 10 selling football players kit in U.S.A.

1 . Robin van Persie ( Manchester United ) *
2 . Wayne Rooney ( Manchester United ) *
3 . Fernando Torres ( Chelsea )
4 . Eden Hazard ( Chelsea )
5 . Frank Lampard ( Chelsea )
6 . Clint Dempsey ( Tottenham Hotspur )
7 . Steven Gerrard ( Liverpool)
8 . Javier Hernandez ( Manchester United ) *
9 . Shinji Kagawa ( Manchester United ) *
10 . Jack Wilshere ( Arsenal )


On the overall scale, Rooney has sold more shirts than anyone else in the EPL, and at a time he was said to be commanding over 30%-45% of the manchester sale, when you consider that United has average of 1.4m yearly sale, you can imagine the income for the club. Business mehn!

EXCLUSIVE: Manchester United and Real Madrid top global shirt sale charts

By Alex Miller

and Nick Harris

SJA Internet Sports Writer of the Year

8 October 2012

Manchester United and Real Madrid have sold an average of 1.4m official replica shirts globally each year in the past five years – more than any other clubs in the world.

The commercial giants of English and Spanish football wear kits made respectively by Nike and adidas and those sales numbers are from the 2007-08 season to the 2011-12 season inclusive.

The figures are taken from authoritative new research by a leading international sports marketing consultancy, and are published in full by Sportingintelligence for the first time today.

As the graphic below shows, Barcelona are No3 on the sales list (Nike, average 1.15m sales a year) followed by Chelsea in fourth place (adidas, 910,000).

The top 10 also includes Bayern Munich (adidas), Liverpool (adidas during the research period, now Warrior), Arsenal (Nike), Juventus (Nike), Inter Milan (Nike) and Milan (adidas).

Another article elsewhere on this site today (linked here) explores the value of football shirt income to the clubs, and to the major brands.

Chelsea are the most significant ‘climbers’ since detailed market statistics were last published by this site two years ago. They were adidas’s joint-second best sellers with Liverpool and Bayern Munich two years ago but have moved clear into second place for adidas – and fourth overall – now.

Undoubtedly there was a 2011-12 uplift because of success in the Champions League.

(See the top 10 and equivalent data from a report in 2010 here).

The figures have been compiled by veteran analyst Dr Peter Rohlmann and his team at the consulting bureau, PR Marketing, who have worked as consultants to major brands, leagues and other organisations.

 

Article continues below



There is a misconception in some quarters that big clubs sell tens of millions of shirts a year but this is simply untrue. As the graphic shows, only three clubs sell more than 1m shirts a year each consistently. The figures do not include counterfeit merchandise.

Taking the five-year view of sales is considered a more reliable indicator of sustainable popularity than one-season snapshots, which hold the likelihood of peaks and troughs caused by individual trophy wins, player transfers or the release of new kits.

As the notes at the foot of the graphic show, Rohlmann has provided a ‘bracket’ of sales for each club for the 2011-12 season alone. Real Madrid and United both sold more than 1.5m shirts in the year.

The official Manchester United Investor Relations website says that “over five million items of Manchester United branded licensed products were sold in the last year, including over two million Manchester United jerseys”.

But it is unclear exactly what period ‘last year’ refers to – possibly a 12-month period including part of two summer transfer windows – the period when shirts traditionally sell in greatest volumes.

Dr Rohlmann says that for 40 per cent of all United merchandise to be shirts “is extremely high compared to other top European football clubs” and is “outstanding” if for a single 12-month period. There is also no clarity on the United website over whether ‘jersey’ means football kit shirts or all United shirts, T-shirts and other tops.
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/10/08/exclusive-manchester-united-and-real-madrid-top-global-shirt-sale-charts-081001/

Football is also business for the club and player. Take a look at articles below:


Beckham's shirt and boot sales stand at a staggering £1billion... and PSG expect to bank £15m

By Alex Miller

PUBLISHED: 22:18, 9 February 2013 | UPDATED: 23:34, 9 February 2013


David Beckham, set to make his debut for Paris Saint-Germain next weekend, has raised a staggering £1billion in shirt and boot sales in his career, with £15million worth expected from his five-month stint in the French capital alone.

The French club, bankrolled by Qatar's sovereign wealth fund, expect to cash in on the Beckham factor by selling 150,000 replica kits bearing the former England captain's name before the end of the season.



Top seller: David Beckham shirts with the number 32 hang in the Paris Saint-Germain Club shop

Despite retailing for £95, sales of the 'Beckham 32' shirts have reached 'thousands' in the week since the former England captain announced he was signing for his new club.

A large number of sales are expected to come from the UK, France, the US and Qatar, while the midfielder will earn a percentage of sales in image rights payments.

Beckham has yet to play for the big-spending French title hopefuls, who take on Valencia in the Champions League last 16 this week, but aims to make his debut at Sochaux next weekend.

His global appeal shows no signs of diminishing even though he is 38 this year.

He has enjoyed a longterm relationship with adidas worth millions and officials at the German kit supplier estimate a staggering 10 million replica Beckham shirts have been sold during his 20-year playing career, worth £950m at today's prices.

About five million of his shirts were sold by Manchester United and Real Madrid.



Big numbers: David Beckham kit sales have topped £a1billion

Beckham also endorses the adidas Predator boot and has helped sell millions of pairs, taking his worth to kit suppliers over £1bn.

Although he has donated his PSG salary to French children's charities, he has received substantial income from shirt and boot sales in his career.

Income from his image rights and sponsorship deals are paid through his company, Footwork Productions.

In 2011, the company earned £15.2m, of which Beckham paid himself £13.3m.

The company paid him a further £75m in salary and dividends between 2002 and 2009. Beckham became a global icon at Old Trafford before becoming one of the 'galacticos' at Real Madrid.

His shirt sold globally during his four seasons in the Spanish capital, with a million shirts reportedly sold in the first year.

MLS commissioner Dan Garber says Beckham sold 300,000 shirts a year during his five-and-a-half years with LA Galaxy.

 

More...

Beckham could make PSG bow as early as next weekend

Something for the Weekend: Beckham set to watch PSG match in London, Real and Juve warm up for Champions League and in-form Wilshere hopes to sink Sunderland
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2276177/David-Beckham-shirt-sales-1billion.html

dayokanu: And does Ronaldo popularity make him better than Messi ?

Football is not a popularity contest. Its what you do on the field

We are talking about brand here you know. Your total package, the way the world sees and value you. Remember, we talking about class not skills. You talk as if no player will leave Bayern and play for United.

But the question as to why you said EPL is weaker than Bundesliga, you are yet to respond. I will like to learn. Or in your language, to be informed.

dayokanu: Definitely moving from Bayern to Man utd is a step down

Cos in every footballing factor Bayern outperforms Man Utd.

It's only uninformed people who would think otherwise

You are the one who is uninformed. Trophies don't make you into a class. United is a better brand than Bayern any day.

dayokanu: Definitely moving from Bayern to Man utd is a step down

Cos in every footballing factor Bayern outperforms Man Utd.

It's only uninformed people who would think otherwise

You are the one who is uninformed. Trophies don't make you into a class. United is a better brand than Bayern any day.

[quote author=A-40]I see you going for style over substance! That a player is more recognizable doesn't make them better. Ronaldinho,Zidane would always be remembered as better than Beckham no matter how recognizable or famous he is
Same way Bayern would always be bigger than Man Utd because of our superior achievements on the pitch no matter how valuable or popular Man U is! This isn't a popularity contest last time I checked[/quote]Put Ronaldo where you have Beckham and give me the result. Ronaldo is the most followed footballer in the world, and the richest too.

[quote author=A-40]Most valued and most followed! Bwahahahaha I'm sure Beckham is more valued and followed than Ronaldinho and Zidane that must make him better! Hahahaha[/quote]#1 Manchester United - Forbes.com

Value: $2.23 billion
Owner: Glazer family

The Red Devils are the world's most valuable sports team and have a long tradition of great play on the pitch. Manchester United has captured a record 19 English Premiership titles and claims to have 659 million fans worldwide. Next up for the Red Devils: an IPO on the New York Stock Exchange to reduce debt from Malcolm Glazer's purchase of the club in 2005.



1 of 51

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45ikdf/1-manchester-united-2/

You can go to the link and check for the most valued 50 sports club.

Talking facts.

I am reacting to your statement that going from Bayern to United is taking a step down in class. Define class! How many people follow Bayern? When you talk class, talk about Man U, Madrid and Barca. That's all. Following any other is a whole bunch of headache.

[quote author=A-40]Sure you can lure him! With 65-70 million pounds! Plus going from Bayern to Man U would be a step down in class[/quote]United is a bigger club than Bayern, incase you don't know. United is the most valued and followed sports club in the world.

dayokanu: How would Welbeck score 30 in Bundesliga when he cant even hit the water in the weaker EPL?

Kagawa went to a wrong team, Injured early and he was used wrongly thats what Klopp said playing an attacking midfielder on the wings is misuse.

Like playing Ozil on the wings

How is EPL the weaker league? I will like to know sincerely.

How do you mean Kagawa was misused? How many times did he play from the wing? United bought Kagawa to replace J.S Park so that the Asia revenue won't stop. Otherwise, I preferred a player like Hazard from the onset.

dayokanu: You must be high on roofies to think Martinez would leave Bayern for Man Utd

Bayern bought him last yr for 40m, So be prepared to drop 60 at least

I don't watch these guys, so I don't know them. Only a few like Gomez and co I knew. But the guy I saw last night is a destroyer. So if Bayern could cough 40m for a defensive midfielder, what was United doing all these while? You see the problem? Another reason Rooney was correct to have said United was not competitive in the transfer market. A few players carry too much load for United. Why can't we rule Europe for 4 years as Barca did?

StarBoard: And you struggle so hard to be heard by this "evil"cult?
Why not do yourself a favor and be quiet, if people don't agree with you, instead of sounding like a foool by labeling people?

You are a compound fool.

It is you who labeled yourself evil. I never used evil.

StarBoard: Hub?
What was his contribution last season (by that I mean 2012/13)?Compare it to 2011/12 and get back to me.
You cannot insult fans and think you'll get away with it.
Rooney was booed at the last home game vs Swansea at the trophy celebration, booed again at the open air parade.Are these paid fans? Or are you saying you're more knowledgeable than these fans who spend their hard-earned cash to turn up at every United game?
Now because a minority with internet access think like you (from their collective rectums), you think you have a point.
For me, and a good number of United fans, Rooney can sod off. If he thinks he can hold us hostage despite his declining output and fat salary,and you feel the need to speak for him,then the two of you have problems.
Unfortunately, your number 6 is missing.David Gill will tell the media what is proper, that he wants Rooney to stay till he sees a PSG or so willing to spend on him. After all This same David Gill told us Ronaldo was going nowhere. Fergie said he wouldn't sell Madrid a virus and 3 months later, Ronaldo was gone.
I think you need to think properly and use antecedents before rushing to these pages to put up rubbish all in the name of posting. Do you expect Fergie to be like Mancini who said Tevez would never play for City again only to do an about-turn?
Unfortunately you think you're smart. Obviuosly you;re new at blogging.

Look at this guy who enrolled on nairaland in October 2010 calling someone new. This has always been your impression. I have been on nairaland since 2005, and you could imagine how long I have been on other forums.

Everything you wrote up there doesn't make sense because Rooney received a bigger boo in 2010, yet he is the player in EPL who commands the largest followership online. The figure multiplies quickly. His jersey sale is constantly the highest in England, it only drops temporary to second or third. His jersey sale is number one in the US. Also number 1 in many other places where the club has market.

Boo is a normal thing. What is booing when your pocket is thick and the club benefits?

What do you know about club administration? When you own a company you can allow your key staff to go to rivals anytime they want. I know of a mega CEO in Nigeria who called from his holiday abroad a 'common' branch marketing manager when he heard he had resigned to a rival company. He used all his logic to lure him back and the medium was used to increase everyone's salary. The manager was shocked to havwe received the call and his phone fell off his hand.

coogar: this post should be ignored and i think you should apologise to everyone for thinking we all face the same direction when it comes to man utd issues. no one likes rooney as much as i do but no player is bigger than man utd.

rooney has disrespected the club by submitting 2 transfer requests. who is rooney? as much as ronaldo wanted to play for madrid, he never disrespected the club by submitting a request, he left when the club decided to sell him. rooney is a spoilt kid and an ingrate.....without united, he would have ended up as gerrard or defoe(0 league titles)

Now The Capon wants me to apologize. I said it. Lol

Neyman signs for Barca. €28m, 5 year deal.

Sir Alex Ferguson presenting Robben with the man of the match award.

montelik: As Mbulela would say "the person wey do this Rooney jazz for u, e no go better for am.

Where did I praise Dortmund? Where did I say they are now a super power or that they dominated Bayern? I simply stated my observation about some of their players that impressed me and others that didn't. Abi is Rooney the only person or entity one can have kind words for.

A member of the cabal is speaking.

This place is a real cult.

The cabals here have a solid cooperation. Coogar is the leader. Lol

When Coogar says a player is dead, without examination over 70% members will already be organizing a funeral.

When he says a dying player is most alive, over 70% rally behind him to see how they can use the remaining life in such a player to project him to forum greatness.

When people hold contrary opinion even with facts and evidences, over 70% rally round to ensure Oga is seen to be right.

When contrary opinion is clear to be the superior argument, the person coming up with it must be insulted, called names and bullied out.

At the end, there is only but a handful of people of same ideology always on the thread. Like a cult, they sometimes disagree on a few issues. A tiny sect of the members who don't have the stamina for argument take a spectators' seat while some others take a compromised position.

Unfortunately for this occult group, the people who take decisions in Old Trafford don't even know that this occult exist in the first place. Lol Otherwise Rooney would never have been asked to reconsider.

montelik: I was really impressed with Gundogan and Subotic for Dortmund yesterday (Hummels has quality but lacks leadership at times). Bender did okay but he got lost too easily for my liking. Gundogan is the perfect profile of what we need in our midfield. Good technique, composure under pressure at high speed and tight spaces, lots of mobility and energy when Dortmund have possession. To go with solid work ethic, good tackling, covering, strength and discipline when Dortmund don't have possession. He shows you don't have to be built like Yaya Toure or slow the game down like the Busquets to be effective playing from deeper in midfield.

Even if Martinez was available, I wouldn't sign him unless he would be replacing Carrick. He is a world class defensive midfielder, not a central one and would be wasted playing there. He reminds of Ivan Helguera, in that he is supremely gifted dm/cb with bags of ability.

Look at the way you are praising Dortmond, one season UCL fluke. Abeg make I hear word. They were totally outclassed yesterday. They have energy and run and run like our Fletcher does but such football has its limit as we saw yesterday. Let me see that consistency for 3 years, then I will begin to think their kind of football is the answer. I remember the Greek team than won the EUFA cup, they were like Dortmund with lots of speed and energy but it can only go to the level to when others realised they are a threat, then they wither.

Martinez, what a guy with dirty jobs. He is a destroyer and a confident player. I hardly watch Bundislega so I have no interest in what these guys do. When I watch on Friday night I get tired 'cos of day's work and I doubt if I have ever watch a match their for 90 min. But yesterday, Martinez is a kind of player that will solve our marking problems. Man United gives so much room for opponents to use us in our area, we need those dirty guys who play like Makalele. Anderson used to be a prospect.