₦airaland Forum

AbdulSleeky:
Bro, this is how some of these muslims are. The sensible muslims will make their simple point on the topic and leave. But these ones here will never answer your questions because of low IQ and fanaticism.

E.mpiree and stalwert have nothing upstairs. They cannot form a logical argument. They rely on fatwas from imams. This is why they get so defensive and aggressive when they are challenged on islam. They will ever answer a question on islam directly, rather they will resort to abuse or derailment.

IdisuleOurOwn is a muslim. Ask him same question and let's see how contempted you are with him?

IdisuleOurOwn:
When you ask them question about some rulings in Islam they keep dodging it.

Simple question, he's there saying another thing.

And if he is answered you think he is here to reason or learn anything?. He is on this platform for years and we know his cunning attitude. Why should I waste my time trying to answer him?. I believe you have been on this platform long enough?. I thought you have sense, no?. I have my unique way of dealing with atheists. You are better of closing your mouth than getting involved btw us. Didn't you read where others said he has several monikers?.

There are levels of atheists. Some are genuinely looking for answer but this dude does not fall in this category.

Alhajiemeritus:
Lol your guy doesn't know the difference between "Inda and abd"
I mean the sagenaija guy

exactly what I tried to get him to understand. That the second transliteration is incorrect. Just because he copied it from a website doesn't make it right but he doesn't want to take corrections.

It doesn't even have anything to do with Hafs or Warsh. It might be genuine typo error by the writer. That's why it is very important to stick to original Arabic text from Qur'an but he doesn't want that. His problem is he doesn't have basic knowledge of Arabic alphabet. For this reason it is difficult to explain to him.

Please check this out. Perfectly relates with what we discussed here from the beginning of this thread

https://www.facebook.com/DarNuur/videos/495769414669814/

sagenaija:
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My question is: Is the Arabic word for 'slave' the same as the Arabic word for 'with'?

Arabic word for slave is "abd"

sagenaija:
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My question then is: Is the Arabic word for 'slave' is the same as the Arabic word for 'with'

Can you indicate Arabic word that represents "slave" and arabic text that represents "with"

AbdulSleeky:
Your brain is leaking.

I asked you a question about a particular issue of flogging but you are here arguing that I should discuss china and Saudi Arabia.

Are you normal? Someone asked you a question about A and your reply is asking about z!!

Is this some Islamic madness or what?

Stalwert ati Lanrexlan, come and carry your brother! He needs help, mentally!

You think am a fool?. What is your interest in this while there are millions of cases around the world?. Google is there for you. You can google whatever you want to know there. Or you want to be flogged?. God willing, I got horse whip. I will whip holy sleeky out of you

AbdulSleeky:
This is ridiculous.

So I cannot talk about international things because I am from Nigeria? Does that make sense to you?

Or are you forgetting that this is the islam section where we discuss Islamic things? Is Indonesia not an Islamic country? Weren't the women being punished being sanctioned by islamic (sharia) law, as applied in that country?


@ Ayinba, are you seeing your Muslim brother?

Russia attacks Ukraine and Georgia and still trying to take them back unjustly. Do you have anything to say about that?. China destroyed masajid and camped muslims in concentration camps. Indian govt has been suppressing muslim citizens in Kashmir region and killing them in broad daylight. Do you have anything to say about that?. International community camped many innocent muslims at GITMO for decades without charges. What do you have anything to say about that?. Nigerian Christian Association or CAN published hate documents against islam and muslims, it is called "Manifesto, a 65 prayer points" against muslims" which threatens muslim leaders around the world and calls for death of many muslims including former Saudi Arabia King Faisal. Do you have anything to say about that?.

So there are host of things you should be taking bout. Why did you single out Indonesia?. Do you have ulterior motives?

sagenaija:
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The onus is on you to prove me wrong because you brought up Arabic in the first place.

But it is clear to any person looking at those two texts to see that they are not the same. Since you're unable to bring them to English for us and are hiding behind 'Arabic' we can only leave you with your foly.

Remember I asked you if the Arabic word for 'slave' is the same as the Arabic word for 'with' but you carefully dodged that my challenge. That would have settled the matter wouldn't it?

I don't even understand your question. My mind must have skipped. Anyways, whether i skipped or not i have unconsciously explained to you. I posted arabic texts of the same verse and they both start with same arabic letter.

So now, you said both arabic texts are not the same, onus is not on me until you first tell me alphabetical letter in the arabic text so that i know you understand because i don't want to waste my time. Even if you have to type them in transliteration i will look into it. Now, the reason it looks different to you is bcus you do not have simple knowledge of arabic text. You do you get to see it is same thing and same pronunciation. Problem with you is that you are too lazy to study. This is one thing I usually like about White people. They usually study Arabic and Quran very well before they accept islam. I have met many of them on NYC subway studying arabic text (not Quran but language). Also you can check youtube for
Milahan Philosophers Corner, she is very studious and dedicated young lady. But you are here making fool of yourself.

Which country do you live?. I believe Nigeria correct?. If so, how's Indonesia law or their incident concerned you?. You need to answer this.

AbdulSleeky:
Ogbeni, this is not how to make a point.

I asked you a simple question and you are supposed to answer.

Instead, you are bringing an irrelevant topic in order to derail the question and avoid answering.

This fallacious approach does not work and will never put you in a good light.


Please address the women being flogged in Indonesia. Thanks

sagenaija:
. All I said is that I can see that the two Arabic text you posted ARE NOT THE SAME.

It does not take rocket science to see. Does it?
So, show us from the strokes and markings in those two texts you posted how they are the same.

everything you said is irrelevant. This is all I care about. Now tell us how the two are not the same?. Kindly tell us the difference since you are now Arabic guru?. Please do. Thanks

AbdulSleeky:
Empi.ree, what do you have to say about flogging as punishment in sharia?

Two women were flogged in indonesia 100 times as punishment for sex work
https://www.nairaland.com/6019770/2-indonesian-women-publicly-whipped

how is this your concerned?. And what do you have to say about people jailed at ikoyi prison?

How do you want me to explain or address things when you don't even know simple arabic alphabet and your argument is based on translation and transliteration?. Quran was revealed in arabic not english translation or transliteration. These White guys you quoted usually studied arabic and they know arabic alphabet but some of them deliberately misguided folks like you. My advise for you is to enroll in a madrasa and learn at least basics of arabic language and how to join arabic letters, how to identify them at the beginning, middle and end of a sentence and how to use them in a sentence. This is basic thing i learned from my grandfather at age of 6. You are not too old to go back to arabic school my friend.

sagenaija:
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I know that you love to confuse issues so that you can come back later and claim that you've won the argument.

But let me make it easy and clear. You have Hafs version of the Koran. And you have Warsh version of the Koran. There are others but let's focus on these two we've been on. Both of these are written by Moslems. Not non-Moslems. Do these two versions of the Koran exists? Yes! Are there differences in the two? Yes!

The verse I pointed out is DIFFERENT in both of them.

I noted that the screenshots you posted ARE NOT the same. You have not addressed that. Instead you are being disingenuous by turning to some other things. After all you were the one who posted the screenshots. It was not the white man who posted it. You did.

Tell us how those two are NOT different. Stop all this rigmarole. They are Arabic: are they not? Striking through my post does nothing to answer my questions.

Again, how are the two screenshots I responded to the same? The Arabic has strokes and marking. Use them to explain to us. Deal with that CLEARLY first before bringing up other issues.

AbdulSleeky:
You tried?

How did you show me the beauty of islam?

By supporting underage marriage? 60 year old man marrying a 14 year old girl as his 4th wife?

By supporting the arrest of an atheist (Bala Mubarak) on blasphemy? An arrest with no bail? An arrest that is illegal by all laws of the land? There is bail and trial, even in sharia.

By keeping quiet when Mac the islam mod was banning me unfairly?



Have you invited me to any islamic event? Did you even do dawah properly? You that relies on the rulings of imams, how can you preach to me?

see that@ayinba1?. You think this guy can be reasoned with?.

Alhajiemeritus:
I still do not know his intention.
But we will always be ready for him and his ilks

Alhajiemeritus:
.
I'm sorry.
Don't mind me.
The guy really pissed me off.
Telling blatant lies.

Its alright. I know. I know him to certain extent

ikoroduarea:
Hi all,

Are you on YouTube?. You need to watch lots of PHRANKLEEN's videos. Then you will make the right decision.

Just tore his name and subscribe. You will watch lots of iriri aye on his channel. Your situation is nothing. I will advise you to watch "Stop Giving Family & Friends Money If You Live In Diaspora"

We tried ooo

His situation is like Abu Lahab. This guy was shown beauty of Islam for years but he no gree

ayinba1:
Please let us invite this man into the beautiful deen of Islam with kind words.
He needs peace and it's sad that he has carried a grudge for so long.

May Allah have mercy on him/her/numerous banned user ID and grant guidance to the individual, ameen.

Remember that your good deeds are multiplied in the days leading to Arafat. May Allah heal our lands and grant us the best in this life and the next, ameen.

Alhajiemeritus:
Salaam Alaykum...
The guy you quoted is deliberately posting rubbish that does not exist..
No need to explain things to him.
Here is the context and translation of the ayah quoted.
What he posted does not even got with the verse at all.

walaikum Salaam.

You mind him. I know what he's doing and I finally grabbed him by his wrists when he quoted transliterations of the verse. He doesn't want original Arabic text. That's a red flag.

Remember his mentors are what he posted in the videos like David Wood, Sam Shanoon and company.

Alhajiemeritus:
You are a liar , the word Muslim was even mentioned 39 times in the Qur'an.
So we've been Muslims since the day Allah almighty perfected our religion.

lol.. You quoted wrong person

[s]

sagenaija:
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If you hope to confuse us by your constant reference to Arabic or like you put in this post "basic knowledge of Arabic alphabet", It wouldn't werk!

A thing can be written in the Chinese and those proficient in that language can translate it into another language ACCURATELY. But if two different alphabets appear in two separate Chinese texts, to translate them as the same will be considered dubious.

Getting back to the matter at hand:
1. There is no original Koran. Islam DOES NOT CLAIM that the Koran from the time of Mohamed exists today. No copy existed at the time of Mohamed. The REVELATION was given as RECITATIONS; true or false?
Therefore the written texts Moslems have today is NOT the original revelation. So, to the extent that the original revelation was in RECITATIONS the written texts of today which DO NOT date back to Mohamed can be faulted.

2. The English translations of the Koran we have today are not all done by oyinbo people: Are they? The answer is a straightforward NO! But then, Arabic is a HUMAN LANGUAGE as much as English is a human language. Therefore, a person who is proficient in both can CLEARLY communicate in written or oral form from one of them to the other.
Your attempts at trying to dig up difficulties in the translation does not arise.

3. Regardless of whether I "lack basic knowledge of Arabic alphabet" or not, I can CLEARLY SEE that the screenshots you posted ARE NOT the same. Arabic is written and read from right to left (unlike English). If we take the strokes and markings in those two texts you posted it is very obvious that there are differing portions. I can see that. I don't have to be an expert in languages to see that. Those two texts are NOT the same.
Therefore, your claim that both Hafs and Warsh are the same in their original Arabic text is FALSE.

However, if what you are saying is that even when Arabic alphabets (not words) vary they can still mean the same thing, then the language has issues.

I know it's difficult for you to come to see that what you've been told and believed over the years rests on sinking sand. But you must be man enough to admit where you've missed it and move away from error to the truth.

[/s]

You have a good day, buddy. I have presented original Arabic text for those transliterations you posted. I have every right to rebuke transliteration if it doesn't portrays exact Arabic tajweed.


Here it is again, the word Ibadu Rahman. There first screenshot is the Arabic letter in question and it sounds like this 'ain'. Every learned Muslim knows how letter ain is used at the beginning, middle and end of a word or sentence. You will need to enroll in Arabic class and stop copying White man rubbish on social media.

If you believe there is no original Arabic Quran as existed in the time of prophet muhammad (saw) then present us different Arabic Quran if you are truthful?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt]Here they are:

hum `ibadu l-rahmani
... they are slaves of the Most Gracious ... 43:19 (Hafs)

hum `inda l-rahmani
... they are with the Most Gracious ... 43:19 (Warsh)

So now can you show us how it's a matter of choice of words used by translators.

First of all thank you very much for bringing this up. You see, at least you are close to my point but guy, your problem is lack of basic knowledge of Arabic alphabet. If you have this basic knowledge you would have noticed the second transliteration is wrong. Very wrong. It has not to do with Qur'an. This is why I keep telling you to stick to original Arabic text. Transliteration and translation are not revelation.

Both Hafs and Warsh you posted are the same in their original Arabic text. Now, both transliterations you posted are wrong phonetically but the first Hafs you posted is more proper. In order to pronounce the exact word in Arabic with it's tajweed, it is not I as written in ibadu. Instead it is in i:e ain. It is difficult to explain to you because you do not have basic knowledge of Arabic alphabet like you do in English language.

So it is transliteration that these oyinbo people capitalized on. That's why they are lost. Now look at screenshot for Divine Arabic Quran in the same sura you posted. You see it is the same "ain" used for both and they mean the same thing.

So both start with same alphabet. Tell me what difference you see from warsh and Hafs below?.

So "Inda" transliteration you got from God knows where is wrong. It should be ibadu at least.

So usually we write ibada, ibadu for easy pronunciation. Not everyone can pronounce the letter 'ain'


So "Inda" you posted had nothing to do with warsh either. It is genuine typographical error by transliterator

Qur'an was revealed in Arabic. When you are ready to get serious let me know. Anyone can read any translations to convert to Islam. That's not the problem we are dealing with here. But we must reiterate that whatever translation they read before converting is not Quran but translation of the meaning. Qur'an is one version in Arabic. The moment it is translated from Arabic Quran to any other languages it is no longer Quran but translation of the meaning.

So I asked you, please bring different Quran from different places and write out same Ayah from them and you realize it is all the same because that's how it is revealed. Text does not change. It is exactly as it is preserved from Divine Tablet. Pronunciation may differ due to dialects but text are the same. Variances that you are talking about is translations.

So please finish your assignment before you return here. Thank you

sagenaija:
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Emp.iree,
I asked you if you wanted us to go down that same route again.

It's like you are the one embarrassing yourself and your fans.

Are you hung up with Arabic? Very soon Moslems like you will insist that people should first learn Arabic before the can qualify to be converted to Islam.

Are you for real?

Now, if I don't write Koran the way you want it then it is not Koran I'm referring to according to you.

And I must spell Moslem in ENGLISH like you do before it is correct. You guys were not even called Moslems until several years or decades into Islam. Check your islamic history. And tell the whole world if I'm wrong. But knowing you that will not happen; you will never check out even your own history. Because you are afraid of the truth.

Is it Mohamed or Muhamed or Muhammad or Moohaammaad?

We might as well spell your name EMPEEREE and not EMP.IREE.

From which language did they translate into English? Is the Arabic word for 'slave' the same as for 'with'? Please tell us. Or show yourself a deceiver.

10kgod:
I wish this is possible in Nigeria. it's not possible cause of this their immunity

tell is about arrest of sitting presidents outside of Africa?.

sagenaija:
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I

Let's see Koran 43:19
Hafs version:
... they are slaves of the Most Gracious ...
Warsh version:
... they a with the most gracious ...

.

please stop embarrassing yourself. This is translation not original Arabic text. Translation to any languages is not Qur'an. It is obvious you do not understand everything I have been saying.

Post Arabic text of sura 43:19 from different Qur'an and let's see. That's what I have been telling you. English translation depends on choice of words used by translators. Choice of words translation is what you posted not Qur'an. Qur'an is in Arabic.



Point of corrections. It is:

Qur'an not Koran

Muslim not Moslem

You have not answered my question. We would save ourselves endless argument if you simply provided A QURAN DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. I don't need audio versions.


Let me give your example. If you asked me proof for discrinpacies in your Bible I had provided you with multiple Bible versions with different contents. Simple isn't?. The reason is because evidences are readily available. So why can't you do the same with Qur'an if you are truthful?

sagenaija:
Muslim Scholars Shatter the Myth of Quran Preservation!
https://youtu.be/ANo...6dXc2i-0
Empi.ree,

Were there ONLY 4 people who had 'memorised' the Koran or were there thousands who memorised it?

Were the chapters arranged by Mohamed or his companions? Why is Musu'd's codex and Ubbayy's codex different in order of arrangements of the chapters? Which is the correct arrangement?

A question Moslems including yourself are yet to answer is this:
Given the FACT that Mohamed DID NOT  write the Koran but only recited it, were those who eventually wrote it down INSPIRED by Allah to write it down?

If so, can we not say then that Allah engaged them as his MESSENGERS, AFTER MOHAMED, to document his book.

If not, were they not working against Allah's will to have the Koran ONLY as RECITATIONS?

The comments below answer you greatly. There is nothing wrong with Qur'an. If you have another one different from what we have bring it forward.

sagenaija:
Emp...iree,
Why do I have to "reinvent the wheel" at this time? What have I been presenting all this while?

Did you watch the discussion between Hijab and Yasir Quadhi?
Maybe you did but would dismiss it because it does not line up with your unsubstantiated position. You people then resort to labelling your fellow Moslems as "misguided" Muslims.

Did you see the David Wood, Ameer, Jay Smith, Hatun and the Arabian Prophet make their claims with references upon references?

Did you see Shabir All talk about 'ancient' fonts and 'modern' fonts?

You mentioned yourself about the text you can read and the ones you cannot read.

And after all these do you still think the claim of "PERFECT PRESERVATION" is a valid one to be made about the Koran?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0GGbZeGQOw

Story story...bring the "old version" that contradicts what we have today. Simple isn't?. That's the only way you can substantiate your allegations. If you said the same about Bible I would really produce different Biblee with different contents. Simple. But if you can't then your claim is audio

sagenaija:
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Empiree,
Mr. Comprehension, we are NOT talking of an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT KORAN. We are saying that the claim that the Koran has not changed since the time of Mohamed is not true. There are DIFFERENCES in the different versions of the Koran available today. In some cases those differences change the MEANING.

When you talk of "VARIANTS", Hafs version, so and so version they are not EXACT when put side by side.

SO, the Koran has not remained unchanged since Mohamed. It has EVOLVED as each competing group of Moslems that dominated at any particular time sought to make it conform to their understanding and view of Islam.

You have comprehension problem. He said exactly what I have told you. Go and bring Quran that is different from what we have. That's all

sagenaija:
Emp.iree,
Shabir Ali in the video you posted admitted that there are variants. Variants simply mean there are a number of differences. You cannot therefore in view of that still claim "unchanged".

The Arabian Prophet in his video mentioned a number of inconsistencies in the Koran and also that there are different Korans.

David Wood used some visuals to explain the "perfect preservation" of the Koran by doing some comparisons.

Hope you found them enlightening.

lanrexlan:
will you leave Islam section alone? Be sincere for once.

Lae lae. Fitra must run its course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otU0FSVyJPc