₦airaland Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGiom7TuPHA

sagenaija:
Empiree,
You asked a question and I gave you my answer. The least you could have done was to comment on the verse of the Koran I provided.  Instead what you did is to go off at a tangent.

You've not defended the preservation of the Koran and you're going off to a human being. Interesting.

Whats your understanding of the verse you posted?. Let's start from there.

Nothing wrong with that dude

And what exactly are you trying to insinuate?.


I know this is really the headache for you. I mean screenshot from Google. You can't change that. It is giving you sleepless nights.

sagenaija:
Maybe this verse of the Koran addresses the issue:
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. Chapter 3:7

AbdulSleeky:
Tbaba is an example. I disagree with him on 90% of everything. But he is intelligent.

I talk am

Even if those "intelligent Muslims" were here you would say the same thing as long as they contradict your ideology

AbdulSleeky:
Many of the intelligent muslims have left the islamic section.

Is it Empiree that supports underage marriage and that doesnt understand "consent", that will now create intelligent threads?

Or is it Lanrexlan that was still a student as at 2014 and was arguing with me about the real world? Someone that barely has work experience?

LMAO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVCu2gaM1UI

mamaafrik:
I pray it tarred after,if not,na erosion them just plant give those villagers.
Wait,which one con be that nonsense,narrow bridge,chai,see civil engineering.
My Ogun people,how is Gov.Abiodun doing ayounder.
That man wey carry head like albino bolokos

Agbaya ni e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYUx3AwcqU

AbdulSleeky registered today . Lord have mercy

sagenaija:
Why couldn't you read the second one?

Good question. Now, when a doctor writes prescription for you are you about to read it all the time?. You simply take it to pharmacy or drug store. They are about to read and interpret.

Now which of the texts are you and to read?. I bet you none

Well, you all can grumble all you want. You are only jealous because you have not been able to meet Quran challenge to produce another Quran. So you must always come up with strategic ways to undermine Quran. Sorry buddy and sorry to disappoint you. It is ONLY 1 Quran muslims throughout the world read. Same meaning. Same text. Different pronunciation of some words. I bet you if I show you ancient text of Quran you can't really comprehend anything the same way some muslims wont. Writing evolves over time. So we have standard arabic text now compared to ancient one.


So the first text I can read it.

Second one I can't read. It is really ancient but there are many who can read it out there.

Third one I can read.

But if 3 different people read them they would read the same thing ( if they are same chapter and verse).

Third one is what i grew up with. I used to write like that but now my handwriting has changed to more legible one.

sagenaija:
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Empire.e,
There was NO single bound copy of the Koran during Mohamed's time.

But Moslems claim that the Koran has remained unchanged since the time of Mohamed.

When changes are pointed out by people the moslem apologist resort to a new definition of 'unchanged'.

Moslems claim that the wording of the Koranic text available today corresponds EXACTLY to that revealed to Mohamed.

Again their definition of 'EXACTLY' will be as redefined by them.

Different Korans have been seen to have not just fonts but WORDS and SENTENCES that vary in meaning.

With all these how can you people still claim "perfect preservation"?

The truth  (which is a tough thing for many Moslems) is that the Koran has not been perfectly preserved.


It evolved over the centuries. In the process of its evolution a lot of changes happened to the original 'text'. The early infighting in Islam soon after Mohamed's death did not help matters. Even though Moslem apologists try to hide this, the prolonged and often bitter and  partisan quarrelling among Moslems had impact on islam's stories and books.

https://youtu.be/jo...HruvIiq_k

https://youtu.be/..ev1SXgwTxg4

Warning for ALL fake Sufis especially bogus Tijjaniya.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8BshSjWPvc

What exactly is texture of your problem?. So font changed the texts and the meaning?
You still have not been able to produce different Qur'ans except audio contradictions.

sagenaija:
Emp.iree, still problems with the "PRESERVATION"!! Changes! Changes! Changed!

"Older form of the Arabic script" @5.14
"Requires some basic training to read it" @ 5.38
"Transcribed into modern fonts" @6.26
"It was written without dots" @ 6.58
"Carbon dating puts age between 649 to 675 @8.01
"Carbon 14 tests have been called into question " @8.39 & 9.16
"Goes back to the time of the companions of the prophet" @9.17

I have given you the time in the video that the statements in quote were made. So I'm not making them up.

Note:
1. There are differences in fonts so it had to be transcribed into modern fonts. So, a change from old fonts into modern fonts.
2. It was almost 2 decades to 4 or 5 decades after Mohamed's death.
3. Carbon 14 dating has been found NOT to be as accurate as previously thought. Ink cannot be carbon dated. Material used for the writing which was carbon dated could have been produced decades before the writing was done on it.
4. Not a copy of ANY Koran at the time of Mohamed. Only alluded to it as being at time of the "companions of the prophet".

So, do you still claim "perfect preservation"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdNOeHjfWXU

sagenaija:
The book of life.

that's written in the heavens?. Which one is book of life again?. I thought Jesus was given or preached the gospel, no?.

Which Book is it?

sagenaija:
The Final Judgement

"And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away]. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life; and the dead were judged according to what they had done as written in the books [that is, everything done while on earth]."
Revelation 20:11‭-‬12 AMP

"And if anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire."
Revelation 20:15 AMP

He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually .”
John 3:36 AMP

Emp.iree, I hope this answers your question.

Which Divine Law he will use to judge the world?. New Testament?

sagenaija:
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You always end up missing the point.

However a name is spelt or pronounced it is the historical figure it points to that matters.

You didn't write the Bible, did you? Sorry, Jesus of Nazareth existed. Don't think that by discrediting him you'll justify your staying in Islam. He's coming back to judge the world including you. There is no other name under heaven saved. No alternative.

We have our assurance in him. Do you?

sagenaija:
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The Koran talks about Dhul-Qarnayn also transliterated as Zul-Qarnain or Zulqarnain said be a reference to Alexander III of Macedon (356–323 BC), popularly known as Alexander the Great. However the name is spelt or pronounced the key issue is it points at a PARTICULAR MAN in history who can be identified with SPECIFIC things.

Awful Zul-Qarnain is Alexander the Great who told you that?.

Zul-Qarnain was a muslim who had faith in Allah. Alexander the Great was a kafir. So how you do correlate your jagbajantis?. It is Western non muslim scholars who imported the idea and very few scholars of islam bought the idea. So Alexander the Great was a Greek polytheism. Try harder next time buddy. Jesus christ that you know doesn't exist in your bible. I will keep saying this.

sagenaija:
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Lol! First you argue up there about "ka" and "ga" and now you come talking about letter "J" not being in Aramaic. If in a particular language - Arabic - a word can start with either "k" or "g" are you now saying that a word translated FROM ONE LANGUAGE TO ANOTHER is wrong simply because a letter in one language is not used in the other or a letter in one language has changed over time? Think man, think.

smh... This is transliteration so that you could understand the phonetic not arabic text. This is the arabic text ک. There is no letter J in aramaic language

Maybe we can say then that if Mohamed was spelt or pronounced differently during his time from how it is done today then he never existed. So, for example, If during his time it was "Mahmad" and today it is "muhamad" or "mohamed" or "mahomet" then the changes in the spelling means the man never existed.

This is even far better because all different dictions you provided are very rhyme compared to Jesus. His name in Hebrew is Yeshua. Jesus is not close to Yeshua at all. Pay attention to letter Y and letter J. But M uhammad, M ahmad, m ohamed, m ahomet. All first letters are the same. Even today, there are many muslims bearing Muhammad. But no christian can name their child Jesus. Spanish people that name their child Jesus do not pronounce letter J. Letter J is silent. Pronunciation sounds "Esus" but text is written "Jesus". Just like saying wrath but letter W is silent.

Again, what you are saying is that if, for example, a word in French is translated to English and a letter or vowel changes then that change renders the translated word void.

No. Jesus is a complete different given name of Yahshua. Disbelievers from Rome gave him that name Jesus.

And even If the language has changed over time it does not matter? So, if 600 years ago English used "thou" and "thine" and so on, if today they are changed to "you" and "yours" then the current rendition is rendered incorrect because, according to you, particular letters used now were never in use at the time a document in reference was made. Whao!

It has nothing to do with this as i said above. The name "Jesus" was suggested by unbelievers.

Yet according to you, the diacritical marks ADDED to the Koran does not mean the Koran Uthman used is different from the one we find today. The additional items, to you, are not really new introductions to the Koran; they are just a necessary INPUT.

smh...this is different thing entirely.

To close: the name Jesus Christ, in whatever FORM it is rendered, refers to a MAN who at a point in history was born of a virgin as the SAVIOUR of the ENTIRE world, after his baptism by John the Baptist had years of ministry in Israel, eventually WENT TO THE CROSS under Pontius Pilate to be crucified for the sins of mankind, being dead he ROSE from the dead on the third day and later ASCENDED to heaven to sit on majesty on high. As long as that is the FOCAL POINT when that name is referenced it remains efficacious in whatever language or sign-language it is expressed.

Lol...okay then. Go to Israel and speak to the people about their coming Messiah. They will tell you he is Yashua. They dont recognize "Jesus" LOL

sagenaija:
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You will deny even your prophet in order to hold on to any claim you make at any point in time.

Now you admit that there are variances in "pronunciation". How come all the added diacritical markings can't make pronounciation similar? You also agree there's slight textual differences and different qirat. You're moving closer to the truth. You'll hopefully soon come to see what some of us have been telling you that the variances go way beyond that into differences in words, sentences and meaning.

you proved my point again that you do not have mental capacity to digest and understand.

Let me highlight few of your confusion.

If you write down GOOGLE which is correct spelling, American pronounce it like 'GUGU'. But nigerians pronounce it like 'GÓGÙ'. Yet it is the same word in its correct text in the dictionary, GOOGLE. You grabbed the point?.

So in Arab countries they have different dialects. I know that of Saudi Arabia and UAE. Sometimes UAE pronounce "ka" as "ga". Ka is written in the Qur'an for instance in sura kahf but Saudi Arabia reciter pronounces ka as written in the Qur'an. UAE reciter who pronounces ga instead ka still doesn't change what's in the Qur'an. This is textual variances I'm talking about as pronunciation.

It is really annoying saying this over and over again. This is probably why Yasir freaked out and said not to talk about it again. I remembered discussing this same topic on this platform 5 to 6 yrs ago on this platform. You can see how annoying it is discussing and trying hard to explain how honey tastes from sugar.

Hatun of DCCI has already found thirty plus DIFFERENT Korans. So, why do I need to search any longer?

Audio discovery where are they?. It is over 1400yrs already buddy.

I'm curious about this your new findings about Jesus Christ. Please enlighten me more.

it is because you aren't paying attention. I discussed this not long ago. Letter J doesn't exist in semantic language. Jesus language which is Aramaic doesn't have letter J.


Letter J only came into existence 600 yrs ago. Jesus existed hundreds of years before that. So how come his name is Jesus when J didn't exist?.

In the Qur'an his name is Isa. Hebrew is Yashua. So Jesus is out of it. The word Jesus in the Bible belongs to other people. There are several other Jesuses in the Bible and Jesus Christ that you know doesn't exist in your Bible.

So in International Standard Version you read


In his name (Jesus) DISBELIEVERS hope


Which means anyone who says "in Jesus name I pray" is unbeliever. Majority of CHRISTIANs say this.

sagenaija:
https://youtu...be/nFiOigU8SPk

Emp.iree and co.; Why doesn't this bother you?

first, my question is, why attacked the prophet everytime a Muslim says something contrary to your (christians) views?. Mr. Wood clearly said he will keep attacking our prophet by calling him false Prophet.


Now, he also said Yasir Qadhi said preservation of Qur'an should not be discourse in public. Although I have not heard this statement directly from Yasir himself but question is what is it to hide when we have already discussed this over and over and it is even all over the internet?.

It is not Yasir Qadhi that would tell us what is or what is not. There are variances in pronunciations in the middle East and around the world and they still mean the same thing. What Yasir Qadhi said is understandable but he didn't properly phrase himself.

Keep searching for different Qur'ans. You will never find one until Jesus come. Keep searching buddy.

Qur'an is One. The same question was asked for Dr shabir Ali by a Muslim American who was not familiar with other qirat. He went to Morocco some day and he was worried what he witnessed when the people were writing Qur'an and he compared to what he has. There was a slight textual differences that still mean the same thing but he was confused. When he returned to the State he asked Dr. Shabir Ali and he explained to him.

Common now. This is a very simple physics. Stop embarrassing yourself upandan. In Nigeria alone Alfas also use different qirat especially elders. We are used to it but your mental capacity can't seem to comprehend.


You don't even have Jesus Christ in your Bible and if you do his name was not even Jesus which means anytime you guys invoke Jesus name you are wasting your time. That's why Bible says:


"In Jesus name infidels rely on"

LordReed:
You don't expect me to answer yours first. Answer mine and I will answer yours.

case is closed pal. I put you guys at crossroads. Your target is ridiculing Islam. You feel atheists should have freedom to express themselves but Holocaust denial should not have right to express themselves. That's called double standards.

I have posted several dumb laws that you can not refute similar to what 13 Muslim countries do.

If you don't have a mission why would you do much concerned about atheists ban?. Govt can not see your heart to determine whether you are atheists or not until you are openly hateists before they penalize you. Grab my point?.

It is the same for holocaust denials. German govt doesn't see your heart to determine if you are Holocaust denial until you say certain things openly before you are penalized.

So don't be crying over spilled milk.

Senseless

GracieX3:
You are clearly showing that you are a joker. Not everyone agrees with holocaust denial laws- it is not criminalised in every country.

But wait, if you are not an anti-semite and a Jew hater, how is it a problem for you? I disagree fundamentally with the law but it is harmless to people who deal with truth and facts. Do you want to deny the holocaust or what?


Now what does this have to do with islamic countries making atheism illegal? Is atheism now hate speech? Is atheism the same thing as denying the holocaust? Are you that slow?

LordReed:
So if a law was passed in your country banning Muslims and Islam you'll be OK with it?

answer the question. It is punishable offense to deny Holocaust in Germany. Isn't that anti-freedom of speech?.

Xmuslim:
but your allah and Muhammad insult non Muslims times without number. . Bunch of double standard fellow.

Keep defending rubbish because you want to enjoy 72 virgins in your imaginary paradise.

Your Muhammad promise you everything he forbid for you on earth such as unlimited alcohol, gold etc. Bunch of greedy people

Wallahi your comment got me laughing bcus i know you are so pained and frustrated.

Can you describe "atheist paradise" after death?. I am quite sure it is freaking boring

At least we will have "72 virgins" and we will enjoy eternal pleasures in the Lord

Lukuluku69:
Brother, if I tell you that I joined Nairaland about Three years ago when I saw your responses to the HATRED, MISINFORMATION, LIES ET AL that the Nigerian Christians showed towards Islam and Muslims, would you believe it?

Oh wow..interesting. I didnt know this. Thanks for this kind gesture.

I so much love lukuluku and motayoayinde's comments.


I said the same about common enemies 6 years ago but Christians attacked me. Only very few CHRISTIANs understand these common enemies. These Western powers are essentially atheists with CHRISTIANITY outlook. Their leaders and pastors (in Nigeria) understand but because they want to impose CHRISTIANITY on entire country called nigeria, they don't mind to ally with Western powers to obliterate Islam. That's exactly what they did in the 90s when they wrote their manifesto and were funded to end Islam by the year 2000. Islam never dies.

If you want to see their manifesto kindly visit my profile. They were backed by Western powers to get rid of Islam from Nigeria. As you can see my first comment on this thread showed passion for Christians but the CHRISTIAN brothers weren't pleased. This is exactly what Qur'an said.

That the Jews and the people who called themselves CHRISTIANs today will never be pleased with Muslims until Muslims join their religion. Those MUSLIMS who understand Quran very well will never fail to see this traits in them.


Qur'an 2 vs 120


And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper.

Well, good for her. That it was discharged doesn't mean it is not a crime. She simply had a good lawyer. That aside, i can understand this is talking about front yard. Going forward, this is still outrageous to people like Nigerians that are pretty much lawless. Everything goes over there. Anyway, you guys picked only on this amongst hosts of other crazy laws. It's all good though.

So my point is, respect those 13 muslim countries anti-atheist law. It is none of your business to tell them what is and what is not good for the countries. In the future it may change. Sudan recently abolished apostasy law. I am sure it was due to pressure from country like Israel bcus Israel and Sudan just strengthened their political ties lately. Yet Germany maintains penalty for holocaust denial backed by Israel and other several EU countries. Dont people have right to believe or not to believe in it just like Atheists believe there is no God?.. Isn't this in conflict with freedom of speech they propagate all the time?. It is punishable offence to deny Holocaust in Germany. Matter of fact an elderly woman was sentenced to 14 months in prison for this few years back. So what makes this alright but the muslims countries' ban on Atheist is not alright?

LordReed:
You are taking a law specific to the growth of marijuana (and other restricted drug related plants like poppies for cocaine) and generalising it. There is no law banning the growth of crops as a whole in your backyard.

Sorry buddy, they did not mention marijuana. They said crops. Ofcourse you may not grow marijuana in the first place. Marijuana is illegal. Point blank. I also said in some places, even if it is illegal they don't really take it serious which is what happened to me in 2010. I also said that excuse given then by the govt was that it is because you grow crop in your yard you are not contributing to the economy. Does that sound like marijuana to you?.

There are crazy laws that are not enforced that's why many don't know until you actually experience it. But for you to say there is no law banning growing crops generally, bro, becareful what you wish for. I know what I am talking about. So check this out below. Does it looks like marijuana to you?

Bcus govt banned them doesnt make them less Atheists. You can not force people to accept faith. Common sense. Faith is in the heart. How do you know someone is atheist?. Is it until he starts insulting theists?. If that's the superficial definition then it is wrong to insult people. Unfortunate that's what you guys do.

GracieX3:
1. @ bold, you just admitted that the laws in 13 islamic countries that make atheism illegal are wild laws. So, you acknowledge that it is wrong.


3. All of the weird laws you quoted are not as evil or in direct violation of human rights like the banning of atheism in Islamic countries. You are comparing apples to oranges.

4. Do you know how many muslims have entered depression as a result of maltreatment and discrimination in China? The oppression they face is brutal. How would you like to be banned from prayers and from your mosque? How would you like to be arrested for praising Allah? If you cannot stand to be treated like an animal, why are you defending it when it happens to others because they are atheists? Atheism should never be illegal

2. It is not illegal to grow crops in your own backyard anywhere in the USA. That is a blatant lie.

Do you live in US to be blunt like this?. It happened years ago. I saw it on mainstream media and everyone was like is this a joke?. I think it was 2010 or 2011 or 2012 it happened. Not necessarily entire US. It depends on local laws. Some states or cities make it illegal but they don't really take offence serious. Govt has genuine excuse though. From what i read then, govt said whoever grows crops in his yard is not contributing to economy. They want you to shop at supermarkets. Of Course it is hard for cops to catch people because you aren't gonna call cops on yourself. But if you have nosy neighbor you may be reported.