₦airaland Forum

usermane:
Since the Qur'an did not specify which Salat should be moderately loud, it goes beyond saying that the Qur'an is referring to all Salat. If I say, "Eat your meals at the table", I mean you eat all your meals at the table, not one or two of all your meals.

Your analogy got k-leg actually. When the verse was revealed, it was revealed to one man who in turned taught his companions, which means he understood and practically demonstrated it before his people. Thats what you are missing. Qur'an is a Divine Code

You clearly don't believe the Qur'an is sufficient for your salvation.

Your opinion frankly

That is the consequence of your discontent with what the Qur'an has provided concerning this rituals. Sawn and Zakat are really easy to observe from Qur'an,

Cheap reply. So u just jump into it and that's it?. There is no way for you to do that without proper calculation of days and months before it. That's got to do with Hijra and you can't determine Hijra without history books, the sirat, tafsir etc. Keep deceiving yourself. It is easier for u to fast now bcus you had some idea prior to being "Quraniyun".

Years and decades of consuming Hadith/Sunnah beclouds one's reasoning, hindering independent inderstanding of Qur'an,

now this is some damaging accusation. Sufis are known as researchers, thinkers, philosophers or philosopucal approach studying Qur'an and that doesnt mean rejecting hadith. Thought you smarter than this

you know. Still, I understand Hajj enough to know that Muhammad wouldn't enjoin many of the rites Hadith teaches on Hajj. So, I doubt the reliability off Hadith book to help one understand Hajj. I have been misled most of my life by these books, I just can't see them anymore reliable than rumors or hearsay ever again.

really cant help u unless u are specific of the practice in question.

How do you know that? We don't wear our beliefs on our sleeves, so it is possible there are many around you but you assume they are Sunnis, Shia, Christians or Atheist. Of course, we are tremendously outnumbered in the Muslim community, but that is understandable because we don't have the backing of any government or petrol dollars to run schools, TV stations and Mosques to propagate our ideology. Our intellectual works are banned at "Muslimdom" and we suffer backlash from the family and state for expressing our beliefs.

Lo ba tan! Underlined killed ur whole argument. They will NEVER EVER make it to the top. They can ONLY whin whin whin in the tunnel which is a proof of its falsehood methodology

And how do you know i got paid "petro $$$" to keep my sunni ideology?. You must be some funny dude.

babajeje123:
Oga, Bible doesn't support gayism o.

Good, that means you have principles in christianity. So what's bible's stand on using the bathroom, before and after and cleaning after yourself?

sheddy03:
where i come from(north), muslim men marrying christian women is the only intermarriage allowed (by islam) between the two religions.
I'm yet to see a Muslim father openly marrying off his daughter to a christian man. fellow muslim nairalanders, educate us on why islam prohibits that.
http://www.dailytrust.com.ng/news/general/sultan-urges-christian-muslim-marriages-for-peaceful-co-existence/157492.html

First all, this is not appropriate platform to seek this knowledge. You either open a thread in Islam section and ask muslims there or meet one on one with learned muslim to explain to you. I just gonna give you sample of people your daughter will marry if you dont take proper precautions

Below are hatred spewed by christians against Allah, Islam, prophet Muhammad (p) and Muslims. This is household you want your daughter to live her life miserably?

naijadeyhia:
Islamabad!

The post is not refering to capital of Pakistan. The poster is mocking Islam

raphieMontella:
My utmost wish is that muhammed hasnt raped all the virgins allah kept for u in ur paradise..
P.s Concentrated pervert

parisbookaddict:
Muhammad is burning in hell

naijadeyhia:
Muhammad was a possessed man with severe mental issues. He said anything and everything anyhow. If it was in todays world he would have been institutionalised.

naijadeyhia:
Muhammad was a nut job just that in their time they did not have straight jackets available otherwise muhammad deserves 100yrs in a straight jacket and placed in solitary confinement.

otemanuduno:
To cap it up, MENDELEEV is more useful than Mohammed, talking about the advancement in the world

plappville:
Islam is a total scam from Satan himself. Nigeria is where she is today because of Islam. Any nation where islam resides, knows no peace. Muhammed was the tool Satan used. He was never a prophet.

annunaki2:
And everything in islam was built on Lies, Lies, Lies and more Lies.

TruthHurts1:
but your stewpid MUMUhaMAD said he saw "TWO SEAS".

.

annunaki2:
islam is a death cult

truthmans2012:
But my wondering is: why should muslims see the falsehood of islam and still stick to it?.

jcross19:
Mosque is a brainwashing center for muslims and a lab to breed islamic zombies.

Anas09:
Allah is Satan and Muhammed was his Messenger

Anas09:
Catholicism is a distinct religion, just like islam. Cathilicism is more Islamic than even Christianity. Go deep. You Muslims worahip the Constellation but deny it. The Catholics celebrate Mass. What is Mass? Is it not one of the constellations?
Catholic converts (Waraqa bin Nawal, Kadijats Uncle, and Kadijat, Muhammad's first wife) were at the root of Islamic foundation. With out Waraqa, the there wont be Angel Gabriel in islam today. Without Waraqa, muhammed would never have known how to plagiarize the Bible.
The Catholic church counts beads, you count beads
They Chant and recites write ups. Stuff writen to control your minds. You guys are not allowed to pray to God as per your concerns.you must follow what some people wants you to follow.

Catholics have strong ties with Islam than they have with other Pentecostal christians. The late Pope went to the Mosque several times to worship, but he never went to any non Catholic organization for whatever reason. The present Pope goes to the Mosque to worship, but he had never gone to any non Catholic congregation for anynreason whatsoever. Until recently, the Almajiris all over the world, do not touch the Catholic churches because they are seen as allies.
The Pope is under the influence of the anti-Christ. Islam is the religion of satan, the.founder of the anti-Christ Cast.
See the similarities?
Catholicism is not Christianity.

Anas09:
You sound like a teenager. Muhammed was born 522AD
Do you know what that means? Let me help you. That means, 522 years after Christ has ascended into heaven, Muhammed was born.
Islam was founded in 620AD.
Thats how many yrs after Christianity was founded?
When Muhammed was born, while all his family members were worshipping Allah, the moon god. Alat, Malat, and Uzzah, the goddesses, his three daughters, representing different stars. Which is why Islam's emblem is a crescent moon and star.
By then Christianity was well established in that region.
Maybe you didn't read what I posted to you.

For the last time. The Pope is not a Christian. He is Catholic.

truthmans2012:
Islam is Satan made religion. C'est finis.



When last did you hear from Muhammad or allaah?

truthmans2012:
Islam is Satan made religion. C'est finis.



When last did you hear from Muhammad or allaah?

truthmans2012:
Islam is Satan made religion. C'est finis.



When last did you hear from Muhammad or allaah?

parisbookaddict:
We all know Mohammed was a sexual deviant.

annunaki2:
Judging from his character, I have always known that mohammed had mental health issues. It's not possible to be that wacko and still have all your mental faculties intact.

annunaki2:
In other wards you are quite aware that your 'prophet' was an armed robber, rapist, murderer, paedophile, adulterer, narcissist and psychopath but you are still prepared to accept him like that despite his numerous short comings just because of his un verified claims that allaah spoke to him through jubril

parisbookaddict:
The important tthing is that he has admitted mohammed was a fraud and admits he wasted 16years studying about the life of a paedophile rapist.
Shalom.

parisbookaddict:
The good thing is that the vast majority of Muslims are better people than muhammad..

parisbookaddict:
but facts remain facts.. mohammed was a violent rapist, misogynist, caravan robber, pedophile and bigamist and the quran and hadiths say so. Fact not opinions. .

TruthHurts1:
However I don't think it will tell me anything new about the state of MudhaMAD's mental competence.

Even Mudslimes know that MudhaMAD needed help upstairs. T

Let's see what one of the Sahih Hadiths had to say about certain peculiarities in MudhaMAD's behaviour:


My take is that MudhaMAD was psychotic and mentally unbalanced. His followers knew this and more importantly they knew the damage it would inflict on their fledgling religion if its founder was found to be a MAD MAN.

TruthHurts1:
In the video, the Islamic cleric explains that the effect of the spell cast on MohaMAD was that it made him impotent for SIX MONTHS. One can only imagine the effect that impotence must have had on a man like MohamMAD.

Mohammed was very proud of his sexual abilities. In fact there are several hadiths devoted to Mohammed bedroom antics.
For such a man to be rendered impotent for six months by a magic spell cast by a mere unbeliever (a Jew) is quite significant.
Islamic tradition relates that Muhammad was a superman when it came to sex:



From the foregoing passage, it is obvious that MohaMAD in his delusion believed that an entity called Gabriel tried to strangle him into submission to Allah’s will.
So why did he try to strangle MohaMAD? Perhaps he was showing MohaMAD the important role that violence would play in spreading Islam.

These encounters would probably explain why throughout his life MohaMAD entertained a deeply irrational fear of possessed people or anyone he believed to be possessed as he narrated himself in the following hadith:


[/size]Compare MohaMAD’s attitude to the possessed with what is found in the Bible. In the Bible it was the demons who were afraid of Jesus and not the other way round!


"




As I have stated, the choice for Mudslimes was to choose between insanity and demonic possession to explain ModhaMAD’s irrational behavior. They chose demonic possession so they should stand by their beliefs and stop using lies and taqqiya to distort the truth.

true2god:
Is it mixed with camel urine as prescribed by your criminal prophet (heat be upon him)?

OREMUSSANCTUS:: like to know d rationale behind muhamed raping a 9 years old grl and thighing her to discharge wen she was 6?

There are lots more i can quote but these are enough for now. Are these type of people you want muslim women to marry?. They would face personal abuses, religious abuses, religious insults from all fronts. So no, this is no go area for muslim women. These people dont change. They are pig-headed folks. If you seriously want to know figh on this topic, simple open the same thread in muslim section or have this transferred to islam section. You will not get serious answer here

annunaki2:
But how do you muslims intend to check evil when islam itself is evil

What's bible's principle when it comes to gay ?

parisbookaddict:
For someone who claims to be a former pharmacist in the US, you do have very poor grammar structure. .

thanks. NEXT

clefstone:
Christianity has nevere been based on principles and laws, rather it's based on love so my friend, there is no principle to lose

LOVE MY FOOT

No principles. Exactly the reason you have no idea btw right and wrong. Whatever that looks good is good. Bunch of hypocrites. And yet, some of you would come here to denounce gay. Denouncing gay is principle. Question, how did you know gay is wrong?. Don't deny there are Christians who against gay. Where did they got the principle from?

Islam is religion of BALANCE. There is no such thing as silly LOVE. Evil MUST be checked.

usermane:
So, are you not raising Hadith beyond Quran when you accept Hadith to recite your salat silenly whilst ignoring Qur'an rule to recite aloud?

Your words aren't saying what your heart says. For so long you have lead me on with those words, though I harbored suspicions. Suspicions which were confirmed when you couldn't make the promise I requested in my last post. This confirms as far as Islam is concerned, you regard the teachings of your clerics and your customs or pre-existing belief above the Qur'an. Why else would you recite your salat silently when Qur'an directly stipulates otherwise?

Another thing I observe is you lack a well defined methodology of accepting Hadith. Since some some of the Hadith you acknowledge contradict the Qur'an and some of those you reject are Sahih Hadith, you evidently just cherry-pick Hadith based on the teachings of your clerics, your pre-existing notions and customs. I don't give a damn this as long as you are transparent and not in denial about it

Peace.

Still perambulating. Tell me how you bury your dead according to Qur'an?.

When you offer your salat alone do as you wish. But when you are behind Imam in congregation you follow the rules. There are people who are not comfortable reciting silently in afternoon salat. They would recite loud in their own single salat. Qur'an says recite not too loud and not too low. Does that indicates which of the 5 daily salat?. Answer is NO. Its the prophet (p) who demonstrated that. You are free to recitem zhur and Asr loud when you pray alone. That's btw you and Him. There is no contradicting Qur'an here. So long as you reject Islamic history you will forever be confused.

What's is the percentage of Qur'anites in the Muslim world?
I'm sure it's far less than 0.00.00 to nothing. Qur'an also speaks of Ramadan but without practical demonstration by the prophet we would not know the start, rules and the end. The same applies to zakathe and Haj.

Keep living in your world

clefstone:
with all the so called emphasis on cleanliness muslims are way way dirtier than christians with their spitting everywhere attitude and filthy clothes

You are rather referring to specific region not the general. Try harder

agabaI23:
Lol, How would you know a student and all that ish from a fitness arena? She had the classy outlook of someone independent. And you know it takes some independence for a lady to go out with a low cut. I always see such people as people who don't care about the crowd. You can imagine my disappointment when I saw her on a wig.

I gave her the money. There was no plan to see her again. So it was a way of telling her off but in a respectable way assuming she has the brain to understand that.

All the same I have helped a sister/beggar in need

You did the right thing at the minimum. She would probably change for good if she gets sense by the way you treated her with respect. Don't mind people asking why you gave her money. By law of nature men nurture women. So what's the big deal

true2god:
Mass deportations awaits Muslim destitutes in Europe.

Your vision will not come to pass in Jesus name AMEEEEEN!

Newnas:
That's the way innovators behave, they don't restrict themselves to the texts, they give supreme verdict to their intellect not knowledge.

The implication of this is everyone would be free to accept or reject whatever he wills in the religion depending on what his intellect no matter how corrupt and ignorant it is.

So, there is no wisdom in sending the messengers Alyhimussalam when the human intellect would still be the final judge not the revelation.

Paradoxically, those who rely on intellect don't last at all before they are thrashed by scholars of sunnah even when debated with the intellect they claim to follow.

This is irrelevant. You should rather defend the ahadith baqir quoited rather than talking. You only keep talking without defending any. You are the one who claimed everything in Sahih Bukhari is perfect but you have not defended just one. I am even trying to help you against albaqir but you keep sounding off.

lexiconkabir:
So in nutshell you believe that the sunnah has been tampered with even when Allaah said he will protect it?

This is rather cheap and generalizing the whole thing. Sunnah is pretty much divided into segments. Sunnah under wajib are protected, under mustahab are largely protected as well but debatable. The aspect I am more concerned about is the example i gave earlier but none of you addressed it.

All the irrelevancies injected is what I am talking about that really have nothing to do with salavation and that sound ridiculous. I am not talking about universally accepted Sunnah

Newnas:
You don't stop Marvelling me with your vain talks and baseless goals.

Isn't there a difference between cutting a part of the quoted part off because it's irrelevant and cutting it off so as to distort the meaning of the original speaker?!

You are talking to enlightened people here, just in case you forgot!

You intentionally cut the concluding part because it will show that the hadith is against you not supporting you!

Bolded part is your opinion. Besides, you only digressing from topic bcus the issue was not addressed to you. Dont know why you taking advil over someone else's problems.

true2god:
I am very sure Europe will end up like Mecca and Medina and turkey

Amen

annunaki2:
Your hadiths clearly doccument that in his younger days whilst working for his sugar mummy, he travelled as far as to Syria on trading expeditions.

quote the hadith. Besides, you said mediterean

The Dude is gradually being exposed. Soon this author in the op will be exposed too. They're always on a mission



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRn-JRGIDGs

raphieMontella:
c[s]ommon sense shud have told u that i said '' all these wahala jst to use ordinary toilet'' because of things like entering with a certain foot and recitation's of prayers
nt that it being bad or iono where ur silly mind iss going to
Actually mister..im not a christian..i dnt have a religion...m an atheist...
Bt i can tell u that i'd rather be a slave to the christianic god than to be a slave of the islamic one...a god who makes pple think they wud get virgins in paradise if they take up islamic wars...shey na so e dey fr ur quran?
Niqqa...quote me again..and i'd show the whole of nairaland jst how stupid u and ur stupid book is[/s]

Exactly. that's why it is none of your business. As atheist, there is nothing to talk about bcus your brain is suspended btw heaven and earth. You can not understand anything. Bcus of the writing you think it is a lot. It is nothing to us. So mind your business since you have no religion.

And keep deceiving urself. U atheist wont stop making laugh. I wonder if you are on a flight at 35,000 ft above sea level and the aircraft crashes and nose dive. I am 100% sure you would scream "Oh My God". You wont say " Oh nothing"

raphieMontella:
i have problems with it because am no fool that i wud need a prayer to poo..
I have problems with it because my toilet is no shrine that i'd have to adhere to the entrance with a certain leg..only a fool does that
im no fool that i'd need prayers to exit common toilet
it is only a complete fool that wud use his finger to clean his anus cs his religion saidd so
how can a normal human use stones to clean his/her genitals and say ''well its fine by me cs islam says so''
abeg swerve niqqa

May God save me from your ignorance. You simply dont know the meaning of the prayer for entering and exiting the bathroom. Shaking my head for you people. It is very simple. if you not comfortable with it leave it. Doesnt mean you have to mock. I dont have problem with it

Here is less than 2 mins video in Yoruba. Besides, no one forces you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYiiTw2-kw

English version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8gCZy-eMYs


Simple. dont know what your fuse all about. I do this everyday. Your problem is you people have abandoned your religion. You are protestant holding on to a shell.

naijadeyhia:
http://www.myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=6096

Okay, thanks. This first link is in the Op. The problem with that however is, it is base on individual opinion. There is no Islamic traditional references. Therefore i can't delve into that. I do know what it is saying but unless you tell me which part is problematic to you, i wont discuss it.

http://www.zikr.co.uk/content/view/72/113/

This has references in it. But again, unless you tell me what you have problem with, it is not for me to worry myself over it. We understand from Islamic point of view what it is saying. I see no reason for me to stress over it. Bottom line is, it about adhab of using the bathroom. It is about purity which Islam emphasizes. If neither of you guys can really tell me what your problem is, i dont have your time.

Also, nothing there is mandatory. It is rather recommendations. So i really dont get you guys. Islam covers every aspect of life even when we eat. So I dont have anybody's time here unless you tell me what you dont understand. Merely copying and pasting here doesnt help when you only read to mock without iota. The reason you all find it funny is because Christianity has lost 95% of it principles. You have none but to follow what the West dictates. Jewish, Hinds, Buddhists etc keep their principles as well but you lost yours.

Danke!

usermane:
Your concern is uniformity [size=2pt]but God never mention uniformity among men in these rituals as of paramount importance. What matters to Him is the heart of the believers.[/size]


And these Sahabas wrote the Hadith, right? [size=2pt]They complied it as they compiled the Qur'an, right? Please think.[/size]



[size=3pt]Too much bothering for uniformity on your path, and what did I say on salat being a flexible ritual? Another problem you face is that you don't realise these rituals proceeded Muhammad, you don't see that Muhammad grew up in a community that understood and perform this rituals. Hence, you imagine people praying salat by lying on their stomach without Hadith. You then ask how I know Suratul Fatiha should begin salat. This again proves you may not even understand the significance and purpose of salat. If I were to give detailed answer to all your questions, I 'll end up not attending to my personal affairs. So I 'll stick with what is important.



In favor of Hadith, you abrogate & violate a clear Quranic order to recite aloud and you think all these debatable histories and tafsir acquits you. This is one clear area the sunnah contradict the Qur'an, the instruction in the verse is direct and general for all believers. To demand women recite silently because men are nearby is still clear violation of the command here.

You did say, you reject any Hadith that contradict Qur'an, prove it. Henceforth, recite moderately loud in all your salat in all the rakats, enjoin this on your co-religionists as well. Promise. If you can't do this, then it will be clear to us which take precedence for you; Qur'an or Hadith books.



Night does not begin till after dusk, well beyond sunset. To claim night begins at sunset is like claiming night ends at sunrise or day begins at sunrise. It is flawed and layman. By sunset, when you traditionalists break your fast, it is still clear enough to drive without a headlamp. No one considers this as night. [/size]

******** looks like this thread is now EXTENSION of my thread officially. However, I don't think I should waste my time. I see your problems.

About the Sahabas you talked about, I'm saying these are people very closed to the prophet(saw). How the heck in the whole wide world they didn't see him practically?. It's clear now that not only did you reject hadith but you reject Islamic history.




******* On uniformity, sura 3 ayah 103 sums it all. This ayah is not just about bringing sects together but brings obligatory practices together as well. Why did you single out Salat if anyone can just pray as they like? . You can as well say individual should fast in Ramadan in different months in a year. You can as well say zakat should be given anytime in a year. You can as well say individual Muslims should go to hajj when they want in a year. This is silly. These are FIXED practices and Haj being the CENTER of that UNIFORMITY.

AYAH 103 is dealing also with Islam. Islam is 5 obligatory practices and they come under "hold on to the rope of Allah ALL of you together and DO NOT be divided....."

After Islam there are other aspects such as Ihsan etc. You don't know Islam at all.




****** On LAIL, that's not even issue of Quranite vs mainstream. No. There are those who have problems with breaking fast when the sky is clear even after sunset. Growing up, we used to wait till sundown NOT dark dark. Sundown is not 4, 5 6 or 7 pm.




****** On history, honestly you are just a joke. You downplayed Islamic history and read Qur'an like a novel. Every civilization has history. If you want to be US citizen they give you history book to study before the interview. Nigeria has its own history. Why are you denying this one?.

At this point, it doesn't make sense to argue over this if you do not recognize the history. The history is tafsir, hadith, seerat etc. If you say it's mixed up with fallacies, fine but to deny it in its entirety is very problematic. What do you think brought many of these non Muslim professionals to Islam?. They read the seerat nabi a lot. You would make fool of yourself if you deny Islamic history in their presence.Your rejection of tafsir and seerat is the genesis of your confusion and I can not help you.

Even Salat is laid down step by step in orderly fashion in Nehemiah in Old Testament. And Islam came to complete it. You are telling me that the prophet (saw) didn't practicalize it? . I'm sorry we do not read Qur'an like novel or like Bible. Even in Christianity they have bible studies where they teach some history. You gotta be joking. Unless and until you accept Islamic history as part of the context of Qur'an and tafsir explaining certain incidents, then we have nothing else to talk about.

You refused to tell me how you bury your love one USING Quran ALONE.

Newnas:
The hadith that a man will soon come to lying on his couch, denying the hadith and accepting only Quran. You better quote the rest of it and edit your post. You intentionally erased the last part because it exposes your deviation.

Which other evil is greater than concealing the revelation?!

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 42:
وَلَا تَلْبِسُوا الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allah's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth).
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 159:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلْنَا مِنَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالْهُدَىٰ مِن بَعْدِ مَا بَيَّنَّاهُ لِلنَّاسِ فِي الْكِتَابِ أُولَٰئِكَ يَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَيَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّاعِنُونَ

Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, they are the ones cursed by Allah and cursed by the cursers.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran
Tell me, if you are not a deviant!

I no longer understand how you think. You are losing it. The post was not directed at you. Therefore, I quoted what was necessary to the person in question. Is there a problem in half quotes?. Absolutely not. You never came across where a quote starts like this,

".........DEF? and ends like this UVW......"

And then you quote Qur'an to buttress your point. Far as i am concern you just trying to digress instead of addressing baqir.

raphieMontella:
all these wahala jst to use ordinary toilet?

Honestly, i dont know how u people think. Irrelevant responding to you guys sometimes. Before i can respond to her, she will need to provide Source which is something you and others failed to do. It is clear from the write that there are individual opinion injected and mixed with Islamic sources.

Second, common sense tells you Islam is teaching about cleanliness something Christianity doesnt teach you. The only thing you can come up with is this is "MODERN World". Islam covers ALL aspects of LIFE.

Until she provides a source, i wont bother with op.

Now, can you please tell us in your religion how to clean yourself after using bathroom, before entering bathroom, etc according to your RELIGION?

raphieMontella:
go back to the op read it frm 1 to the end and relate it to ur modern day usage of the toilet in terms of complications...then u can quote me

You already shot yourself in the foot. Have a good day. I read op by the way. If you have problems with it, that's yours. I dont have problems with it.

parisbookaddict:
Oh right. Because cleaning ur privates with stones and the like is hygienic... The wisdom of Islamic allah is amazing

Tell us how Paul taught you to clean up after yourself

parisbookaddict:
Wow.. muslims and altaqiyya.. who said its fallacy. Mr muslim lair.

its a great book that compiled numerous of mohammeds atrocities in an orderly fashion.. it may be too passionate in language but its expected.. mohammed has caused to much death and destruction to so many communities on earth hence the passionate hate accorded to him.. like i said its not a perfect book but it is well researched and a better read than the Quran.

bla bla bla. You said earlier the book is not perfect. You also said in wordworld's thread the book might be bias or something like that. So what is it to talk about.

DOUBLE POST

neocortex:
Isn't it obvious to you that muhamad was describing the layman observation of an event he
and is audience understand ?
Given that he was a well-travelled merchant, I don't see anything special in this
verse.
Same also goes for verses describing how the rain "resurrects dead land", these
verses are mainly descriptive not revelatory in any sense.

The fact that the so-called "partition" does not exist(salt and fresh water do mix) is a minus for the quran.

Do you have any proof that prophet Muhammad(SAW) travelled outside of Arabia?

lexiconkabir:
Can you please explain this better especially the embolden, i don't want to misunderstand it, perhaps i didnt read it well.

Alright. We can start from the sira nabi where Rabbi covered evidence of stoning from the prophet(p) in their Tawrat after a woman was brought to him to pass judgement. This incident happened after prophet(p) reached Medina.



POINT #1


Excerpt:

Subsequently, I went back to the Prophet (peace be upon him), and said: “O Messenger of God! The Jews are a people (inclined to) slander and falsehood. I want you to invite their most prominent men to meet you. (During the meeting however), you should keep me concealed from them in one of your rooms. Ask them then about my status among them before they find out of my acceptance of Islam. Then invite them to Islam. If they were to know that I have become a Muslim, they would denounce me and accuse me of everything base and slander me.”

The Prophet kept me in one of his rooms and invited the prominent Jewish personalities to visit him. He introduced Islam to them and urged them to have faith in God.

They began to dispute and argue with him about the Truth. When he realized that they were not inclined to accept Islam, he put the question to them:

“What is the status of Al-Husayn ibn Salam among you?”

“He is our sayyid (leader) and the son of our sayyid. He is our rabbi and our alim (scholar), the son of our rabbi and alim.”

“If you come to know that he has accepted Islam, would you accept Islam also?” asked the Prophet.

“God forbid! He would not accept Islam. May God protect him from accepting Islam,” they said, horrified.

At this point I came out in full view of them and announced: “O assembly of Jews! Be conscious of God and accept what Muhammad has brought. By God, you certainly know that he is the Messenger of God and you can find prophecies about him and mention of his name and characteristics in your Torah. I for my part declare that he is the Messenger of God. I have faith in him and believe that he is true. I know him.”

“You are a liar,” they shouted. “By God, you are evil and ignorant, the son of an evil and ignorant person.” And they continued to heap every conceivable abuse on me.

Here ends his own narration.

Abdullah ibn Salam approached Islam with a soul thirsty for knowledge. He was passionately devoted to the Quran and spent much time reciting and studying its beautiful and sublime verses. He was deeply attached to the noble Prophet and was constantly in his company.

He spent much of his time in the masjid, engaged in worship, in learning and in teaching. He was known for his sweet, moving and effective way of teaching study circles of Sahabah who assembled regularly in the Prophet’s mosque.

Abdullah ibn Salam was known among the Sahabah as a man from the people of Paradise. This was because of his determination on the advice of the Prophet to hold steadfastly to the ‘most trustworthy handhold’ that is belief in and total submission to God.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1692/abdullah-ibn-salam-jewish-rabbi-medina/




POINT #2

This is a very interesting story located in Seerat nabi. It happened after the prophet{p} arrived in Medina and a woman was brought to him by the Rabbis for committing adultery. The thing is, they wanted to try and set him up exactly as they did to Jesus(p). So the prophet asked them similar question Jesus asked, that they should bring torah since that is the Law. When they brought their torah, prophet(p) asked them to read it punishment for adultery. As the Rabbi was reading and got to the point, he covered it with his finger. Meaning he hide the truth.

Read below

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. "What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?" They replied, "Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya." 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Allah's Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah." The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, "Lift up your hand." Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah's Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn 'Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess

Sahih Bukhari 8:82:809, See also: Sahih Bukhari 6:60:79, and Sahih Bukhari 4:56:829

The prophet clearly abrogated STONING for adultery from Tawrat or Old Testament. The new Law is FLOGGING mentioned in the Qur'an. But Sahih Bukhari records STONING as the punishment. The narration above is just brief example of their silly minds.

The Jews, more than a hundred year after Prophet Moses' death created Mishnah (hadith or narrations) and Gemarrah (sunna or actions). The Jews upheld these and the invented laws within them rather than the TORAH, the revealed Word of God Almighty.

Three hundred years after the passing away of Jesus, son of Virgin Mary, the Christians created the concept of trinity which is now the primary source of Christian belief in defiance of the original Bible which commanded the absolute worship of God Alone.

There is also a story of man named "Kaab" after the death of Umar (rta) who had little influence in the muslim affairs then. I don't know much about him. But i think his affairs was quite limited.

That's just a tip of iceberg. But then, there were munafiqs as well. Dont forget that.

truthman2013:
This guy though

Na him sabi. His problem is, once he tags someone "non-salafi", nothing good is from them. They must be "deviants" as he calls them. That just blocks sense of rational reasoning..

AlBaqir:
Sahih al-Bukhari And Scientific Discovery

How can the following narrations be authentic by any standard? So, many lies attributed to the Prophet yet Salafiyah take these ahadith mechanically and fanatically.

# Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: 'Ha', Satan will laugh at him."

Sahih Bukhari 4:54:509

SCIENCE The most plausible explanation, and the one that is taught in medical school, is that we yawn because oxygen levels in our lungs are low.


# Narrated Anas bin Malik: “The Prophet said, "Allah puts an angel in charge of the uterus and the angel says, 'O Lord, (it is) semen! O Lord, (it is now) a clot! O Lord, (it is now) a piece of flesh.' And then, if Allah wishes to complete its creation, the angel asks, 'O Lord, (will it be) a male or a female?”

Sahih Bukhari 8:77:594, See also: Sahih Bukhari 4:55:550, and Sahih Muslim 33:6397

SCIENCE: The gender is determined at conception by the sperm. All women's eggs carry the x chromosome as all women have two x's. The sperm can be either male or female (x or y). The sex of the baby can be seen as early as 12-13 weeks with ultrasound.


# Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "When you hear the crowing of cocks, ask for Allah's Blessings for (their crowing indicates that) they have seen an angel. And when you hear the braying of donkeys, seek Refuge with Allah from Satan for (their braying indicates) that they have seen a Satan."

Sahih Bukhari 4:54:522, See also: Sahih Muslim 35:6581

SCIENCE: Cocks will crow if there is a disturbance within the coop or if they are alerted for danger. Donkeys bray as a form of communication.

# Narrated Abu sa'id al-Khudri: The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything

Sahih Muslim 1:66, See Also Sahih Muslim 1:67

SCIENCE: Water can be contaminated by toxins and bacteria which can be deadly.

Honestly, i probably have problems with just one or two ahadith here. I dont think the rest of ahadith are wrong. "Science" itself is KNOWLEDGE bestowed by Allah. It ONLY sees what it sees. SCIENCE/ SCIENTISTS can not see the unseen. We know from islamic perspective that all creations, living and nonliving things glorify Allah daily. SCIENCE dont read the trees bending as glorification of Allah. They ONLY see trees bend. Yes, crow, donkey etc can see Angels or evil spirit. SCIENCE can't. And most human can't either. The smallest of all creations, ants that we can barely see also glorify Allah but we human have no idea how. So SCIENCE can not pick that either.

I am telling you this from epistemology dimension of islamic knowledge. But I dont want to get involve btw you and newnas bcus he is the one that needs to defend whatever ahadith you quoted bcus he said Sahih Bukhari is 100%. He's literal but I am all literal, methodological, symbolical and metaphorical. Newnas knowledge is limited to literalism. Let him come and defend himself.

So my point is NOT every hadith you posted, that i just quoted is false, sir. And finally, YES, Yawing is from Shaitan. That's from spiritual dimension. Even scientific "evidence" you quoted is 50/50 chance. They aren't sure from the way the statement is worded.

usermane:
A. I don't believe that these rituals ought to be done precisely as the Hadith described. The absence of precise demonstration of these rituals by the Qur'an as in the Hadith spells that Islamic rituals are much flexible than we have been led to believe. Otherwise, the Qur'an would have incorporated every step of these rituals given the level of corruption destined for Hadith books.

Bolded gives room for everyone to pray the way they deem fit. Imagine we all gather in masjid and some bending backward contrary to mainstream. Some would lie on their belling claiming they praying Salat too etc That's not coordinated. I gave you analogy earlier and I told you it is up to you if you choose to complicate this further. You have no valid excuse because the Sahaba were present and saw the prophet(saw) prayed. If Qur'an's descriptions of Salat is enough, ALL "Qur'anites" should be able to pray same way. But i can guarantee you if we gather 10 of you in separate rooms you would offer salat differently.

Now do you pray as the guy in the video who is also 'Quranite' prayed?. I think he said he just prayed Asr.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQYPY-zNPlk&list=PL2_ZWCfH0mbp-U_infu75onssgynQY_o_

And how did you know Sura Fathia should begin salat?. What you missing is Following Qur'an is accompanied with Hukm (that is legislated in the hadith STEP by STEP). There is no hukm in the way he prayed.

B. I understand that Muhammad didn't introduce these rituals. They were well recognized by Arab pagans and Jews well before Muhammad. As the Qur'an was revealed, it modified these rituals in the areas of importance. Thus, with or without Hadith, we can practice these rituals.

Which ritual?. Be specific. Salat of course was recognized by them but HOW is the question here.

C. Given that the Hadith on rituals are from the same documents as other Hadith with unholy content,

I understand but this is rather irrational. If you request from 10 mainstream muslims how to pray salat academically, they would come up with same thing 99.99% of the time. You actually have done that 2 years ago. I was the last to write mine. I remember you said there is "striking resemblance" with others which is nothing but the truth. Case of Usul-e-Deen (Pillars of Religion) and Furu-e-Deen (Practices of Religion) are different.

it leaves the credibility of even these Hadith on rituals in question.

I sense your worries. It doesn't. Majority saw the prophet(p) because these are obligatory practices. He led them in Salat almost everyday. Majority cant go wrong. Even those who criticize hadith recently don't go far as you because they understand obligatory practices and learned enough to know there are different from hearsays.

As if this isn't bad enough, these Hadith on rituals sometimes contradict the Qur'an, casting further doubts on their authenticity. For instance, any recitation during salat is to be moderately loud according to Qur'an(17:110)

This has it context. Even the two afternoon Salat have theirs and they are totally unvoiced as proved by uninterrupted Sunnah. Again, i understand what you're trying to prove. Unfortunately, so long as you reject tafsir, history etc you may be having problems. You can't deny history or events or incidents leading to certain conditions. This issue you raised was directed at the prophet. It is normal to pray loud during salat unless otherwise stated. The prophet (p) was simply praying loud when the ayat were revealed. The ayat begin with declaration of the purity and Oneness of Allah. The revelations were based on events. The first one came to pass on a certain day when the prophet(p) during his supplication, said "Ya Allah" and "Ya Rahman".

The Polytheists thought that he was calling two Gods. They said, 'he forbids us to call anyone else other than the One while he himself calls two deities. The answer to this comment was given in the first part of the verse by saying that the most exalted Allah does not have a mere two names. And all of them are best. Call Him any of these and it means the One and Only Allah. So, it was made clear to them.

For the second incident, when the prophet(p) would recite Quran loudly during Salah, the Polytheists made fun of him and passed ridiculous remarks berating the Qur'an, the Angel and even God Himself. Response to that, the last part of the verse was revealed where he has been advised to take middle course btw the loud and the low, as the average voice took care of functional necessity. And as for the chance the Mushriks had to cause pain to them. Then, Muslims were not over a billion. They could all gather in masjid and hear the prophet pray. But now in a 5000sqt masjid without speaker is uncomfortable. You are free to recite in low voice at your own pace. But when you are in Jama'ah or congregation, you have no choice but to follow Imam. You are not the one even leading. And of-course if I am praying alone in my own home, my voice is neither loud not low when I'm offering either fajr, Maghrib or Isha. So what's the fuse?

So Imam should be able to recite in salat in a voice not too high and not too low so that congregation behind him can hear. In prayer with voiced recitation, included Fard of Maghrib, Isha and Fajr, as well as the prayer of Tahajjud as in a hadith which says: Once the prophet(passed by Abu Bakr and Umar(RTA) at the time of Tahajjud, Abu Bakr was reciting in a lowered voice. The prophet(p) said to Abu Bakr, 'why would you recite in such a lowered voice?' Sayyidina Abu Bakr(ra) said, 'the One I wanted to talk to in secret, Him I have made to hear, becus Allah ta'ala hears every voice, even the lowest of the low.' The prophet(p) said, 'recite somewhat loudly.'. Then he said to Umar(ra), 'why would you recite in such a loud voice?', Sayyidina Umar(ra) said, ' I recite loudly to wake up the drowsy, and satan,' He(saw) ordered him too, "you should recite in a voice somewhat lowered.' (Tirmidhi quoted in Mazhari).




This is also explained in Sura al-A'raf under ayah 55, volume lll commentary). See if you can look for it.

and fast must be broken only at night(2:187). However, in contradiction, the Hadith on rituals demand some Salat recitation be done silently(always silently for women) and fast be broken as soon as sunset.

This is simple. Your problem is "LAIL". I know. I think the ayah is crystal clear enough.




"It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous."


Sunset is the beginning of the night. We know from hadith that LAIL is divided into three or more. We are told our prayer is most answerable THE THIRD PART OF THE NIGHT. How about the other two NIGHTS preceding it?. Even if you live in a city and you drive they recognize LAIL or NIGHT after sunset. That's why parking is free and parking meter is locked after that.

As for women, well, that's figh issue and it is not mandatory. Matter of fact women pray aloud in single prayer. I think the reason for women to silent in prayer is to avoid distraction for men. Yes, their voice can cause distraction in the heart of men. Them voice can be sex!y for real. You would also probably question why should women stand behind men in salah as well?. The reason for that is pretty much the same DISTRAction. Imagine they put women in front. I dont think usermane would concentrate anymore. You be looking their behind and your salah gets K-LEG if you can finish it in peace. Now this is not necessarily Divine but has a very STRONG reason behind it. Plus i every matter, including modern Western civilization men are known to lead. First time in US history, a woman won presidential nomination and perhaps, may lead the country. What happened all these yrs since their over 200yrs of independence?. It was all men. Which means they recognized superiority of men at some point.

This is sufficient and rational ground to dismiss even Hadith on rituals without coming across as an extremist. If these Hadith contradict Qur'an, how can we believe Muhammad relayed them even if all mainstream Muslims agree on them?

Again, this bore down to analogy i gave you. If you have children now you definitely have things to tell them and they would narrate what you said differently in yrs to come. Differences in their narrations does not negate the fact that you told them stories.

Hope you reason well