₦airaland Forum

lexiconkabir:
Please where did i say apostates should be killed where ever they are found, without letting it be the responsibility of the state? Didn't you see where i agreed to new,nas's 7th point added to the 6points i raised??

As you can see, if you read very well, I did not accuse you of the highlighted part. I only brought your attention to taking hadith in isolation and derive meaning by that.

Eld Mubarak brothers and sisterss. Now you can see the danger of taking hadith in isolation to derive meaning like brother lexiconkabir initially did. It does not matter whether apostates are to be punished or not. Our first approach as muslims is "There Is No Compulsion In Religion" and live by that.

The matter of "killing" apostate is the responsibility of the State not any individual to threaten apostate with death threat. This is very un-islamic. I was going to contribute further in this thread but this video below really buttress my point all along. You may have known the brother "converted2islam" on Youtube who have strived in the cause of Islam for several years. Soemtimes this Ramadan, he openly declared he left Islam on YouTube. You can check him out there. Although, his excuses for living are quiet lame and silly. I also learned that he actually left islam years ago but gone undercover since.

Today, the Eld Fitr, he made a video showing how muslims threatened him for living Islam. I honestly dont think he should use minority comments or opinion to criminalize Islam. There are bunch of other Muslims that left peaceful comments and even made videos to rebute his allegations against the prophet(s). Please watch the video and see why we say the hadith is taken in isolation with no regards for the consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7X5agrqqlU

Now, those brutal threatening comments, how do they help the cause of Islam and Muslims.

Eld Mubarak brothers and sisterss. Now you can see the danger of taking hadith in isolation to derive meaning like brother lexiconkabir initially did. It does not matter whether apostates are to be punished or not. Our first approach as muslims is "There Is No Compulsion In Religion" and live by that.

The matter of "killing" apostate is the responsibility of the State not any individual to threaten apostate with death threat. This is very un-islamic. I was going to contribute further in this thread but this video below really buttress my point all along. You may have known the brother "converted2islam" on Youtube who have strived in the cause of Islam for several years. Sometimes this Ramadan, he openly declared he left Islam on YouTube. You can check him out there. Although, his excuses for living are quiet lame and silly. I also learned that he actually left islam years ago but gone undercover since.

Today, the Eld Fitr, he made a video showing how muslims threatened him for living Islam. I honestly dont think he should use minority comments or opinion to criminalize Islam. There are bunch of other Muslims that left peaceful comments and even made videos to refute his allegations against the prophet(s). Please watch the video and see why we say the hadith is taken in isolation with no regards for the consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7X5agrqqlU

Now, those brutal threatening comments, how do they help the cause of Islam and Muslims.

What comes first, ROOFING or PLUMBING?

Hajj mufu, spyder880, EgunMogaji

^^^^^^

@busar, is the opinion of Shaykh Salih al munajid of islamqa ijma of the Ummah?. I believe it is the Sheikh that took the hadith literally and in isolation.


"Let there be no compulsion in religion;..... 2:256


What this Verse 2:256 does not protect is a Muslim or so called Muslim who neglects all tenets of Islam and cite this ayah as his/her evidence. In that case it does not apply because Quran says enter islam wholeheartedly.


"O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy." 2:208


But borne of contention is someone who freely leaves Islam and minds his business afterwards to be killed?. I hope you know know implications of this. I am sorry I dont see wisdom Sheikh's method.

^^^^^^^


This is rather problematic @busar. I hope you read and comprehended what is written. I think that's where brother lexiconkabir stands as well. That's why i said earlier the hadith is taken in isolation. From your post up there, it is clear they believe killing apostate solely for rejecting faith is the rule of Law. This is clear contradiction with Quran


"Let There Be No Compulsion In Religion"


This is excerpt from your post up there.

Thus it will be clear to you that execution of the apostate is something that is commanded by Allaah, when he commanded us to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority”
[al-Nisa’ 4:59]
And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”

This is not even ijma as I understand it. The condition of executing apostate is what i hinted [quote author=Empiree post=46832504][/quote]and tbaba even explained better here https://www.nairaland.com/tbaba1234/posts Both explanations contradict what you posted. I stand to be corrected if I am missing something.

@Mr. Maclatunji, I am really having hard time digesting your post

I am honestly forced to comment on this. I can't wait till end of Ramadan to respond. I decided to go offline because I wanted to avoid back to back talks, vain talks in this Blessed month of Ramadan. Back to topic, I DISAGREE with brother lexiconkabir. Respectively, you are very wrong dear brother. You make my stomach turned.

I dont think i need to cite references further as rilwayne001 and others already did that. Brother lexiconkabir, first all, there is no way hadith can abrogate any verse of Quran....NO WAY. Do you agree?

This verse STANDS and VALID until end of time.


"THERE'S NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION"



The problem you have and those scholars you quoted have is wrong methodology. Let's assume the hadith you quoted is valid. Have you ever heard of something called "system of meaning"?, which means you can not take the above hadith or any hadith in isolation. This is lazy man methodology. You and those scholars supposed to put together all the data in reference to the hadith, put them together to form harmonious whole and then derive a meaning. You and the scholars you claimed you support took the hadith in isolation. This is very wrong and dangerous.


Now, let me explain the hadith to you if indeed it is true to begin with. The context of the hadith in reference to another hadith that you failed to cite in your #5 is when the prophet(saw) made the statement, it was in the time of war and if the apostate poses a threat to the community. So it is to mean that in that time when every man was a soldier at war and call to defend Muslim populace and then he joins the other side(enemy) and divulges the secrets of Muslim military to the enemy, then he's to be killed. This is clear case of treason. This is also general rule in any given nations today.


There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPULSION in Islam. You and your scholars go against Quran.



The thing is, in Islam, there is no separation of Church(Mosque) and State. Therefore, if a Muslim openly renounces Islam and then saying unspeakable things against Islam which may prevent or lead people astray or speak against the state, this is considered treason. It is only then govt will act NOT individual. When such a person in punished in our modern time, non-Muslims do not look at it as treason but as religious repression. They failed proper investigation.



As for your statement that Sahih hadith are ALL REVELATIONS, brother, it takes a very simply physics to dispel such mythology of yours. Yes, hadith is revelation also as reported by the prophet(saw) himself. But there is no where Allah guarantees protection of any religious Books or any books except Qur'an.


Allah Knows Best

usermane:
Peace

I am no "Islamophobe" because I do not consider the religion of mainstream Muslims to be Islam. In fact, I consider their religion and culture to a large extent as the antithesis of Islam, as detailed exclusively in the Qur'an. Therefore, I don't have phobia for Islam, instead it is Empiree, his posse in CAIR and a lot of his co-religionists that have phobia for Islam.

I watched the video in the OP and I see no more than mispresentation of "Islamophobes". The things that breed Islamophobes which CAIR deliberately deny is the culture of Muslims in the middle East, not beards or hijab as CAIR would have us believe.

Why does Saudi state deny freedom of belief by penalizing apostates?
Why does Iran stone adulterers and gays?
Why does Shariah punishes theft with amputation?
Why do Muslim clerics condone wife beating?
Why do Muslim schools of thought justify Female genital mutilation?
Why is Aasia Bibi in prison for allegedly insulting Muhammad?
Why do Hadith books and traditional exegesis of Qur'an condone slavery?
Why is a tyrant like Khomeini who adored by Muslims?

These are the things that bothers most Islamophobes. These are the things that CAIR would dare not discuss.

Peace

Thanks for your input. But no thanks. You think those folks who liked your post really support your stance on islam either? . They simply hate the religion, period. I'm sorry i have no time for talks. It's Ramadan and I have MAXIMUM respect for it.

As you exit don't forget to take some phobin pills with you. Get well soon, brother.

RAMADAN MUBARAK!

http://yousefalkhattab..com/2017/05/islam-is-my-only-identity-i-say-it.html?m=1


https://www.counterextremism.com/extremists/jesse-morton

https://newrepublic.com/article/145433/only-human-american-ex-jihadi-rebuild-life-country-once-vowed-destroy

ShiaMuslim:
if we start today praying taraweeh or tahajjud in congregation, tomorrow we may start praying 2 rekat nafila in congregation. is that bid'ah hasanat too? this is the entire problem.

Obviously, it has bnot been problem in 1400yrs now. As you can see only in Ramadan it is congregated including Shafi/Witr. What i do disagree with is lengthy surah they recite in taraweeh. This is in conflict with another hadith that speaks about shorting sura in congregational salat obligatory or not because of weak ones, nursing moms etc.

the Prophet (s) prevented them from changing his teachings. and for the fact that they did it for three days does not mean that the Prophet (s) promoted or encouraged it. the Prophet (s) does not act or say something out of his desires. it is out of revelations that the Prophet (s) act or speak based on Surat an-Najm. so it is very possible a revelation came to him to actively prevent them when they persisted. the point remain that those who congregated committed bi'dah. and it wasnt bid'ah until the Prophet (s) prevented them and had the Prophet (s) not prevented them it wont be called bid'ah. funny enough, this attitude or promotion of what the Prophet (s) prevented is not applied on the case of Mut'ah marriage. Sunnis believe the Prophet (s) later on forbade mutah. today, many Sunnis who may not know that the Prophet (s) allowed mutah in his time would call mutah "zina" and actively oppose it because the Shia insist it was not the Prophet (s) who stopped it. both mutah and taraweeh point at the direction of Umar. yet some people think we "hate" Umar or we say certain historical facts simply because his name is "Umar". no, it is to ensure the religion of Islam is based on Muhammadi Sunnah and not based on anyone's desires or sunnah that aims to uproot the original teachings of the Prophet (s). if the religion follows such a path, Yazeed at a point used to pray while drunk and order for adhan when it was not time for adhan. this attitude will falsify the religion and uproot it. today there are mosques in europe and america where women lead prayer. if we accept such changes on taraweeh and mutah, then anything will be accepted and many changes will follow. we have to protect the deen.

why lumping mut'ah into this?

As I said some place before, we truly need CONGREGATIONAL TARAWIL in our modern time, bida'a or not. There seems to be authentic narration supporting praying tarawil singly or individually at home. The problem however is that because we muslims have tagged ourselves those silly names makes it difficult for sect A to accept sect B.

For instance, shia muslims, if you have one on one conversation with them, they would have no problem with congregational tarawil because there are DEFINITELY benefits in it today. The reason they would argue and condemn CONGREGATIONAL TARAWIL is because of their ego and hatred for Umar Farooq ibn Khattab (rodiyaAllah anihu). That's why i have said severally that the whole argument is simply borne out of schism and hatred.

My point is, evidences provided by Shia are NOT necessarily Shia position. Remove the name tag and you would see that there are many Sunni scholars who go against CONGREGATIONAL TARAWIL as well. So it is not only shia position.

I remember this issue was brought up by Albaqir and tbaba in Ramadan 2014. https://www.nairaland.com/1794405/islam-muslims-side-talk-station#24414843

This sister responded to tbaba...

^

Sissie:
Some sunni are also of the same opinion with what al_baqir posted it's not a shia position per se.

I definitely dont see congregational tarawil as bida'a. "Bida'a Asanat" mentioned by Umar, has to do with linguistic analysis. Far as i'm concerned, Umar(rta) revived it...not something new or invented.



Tbaba highlighted in his article copied from islamqa that "CONGREGATIONAL TARAWIL is unanimous consensus of scholar while albaqir's argument is based on QOLA RASULULAH...that praying individually in the house is BETTER

I have no problem with congregational Tarawil. Many benefits in it. Do you agree with this albaqir?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QE9XBovMk0

Ifeann:
So?? Since when did mike tyson become a good role model he bit a man's ear off as well as raped a woman... very Islamic behaviour. .

Malcom x adovated for vi.olence against whites.. very islamic.

Osa.ma bin lad.en was also a sunni muslim, so are isis. Its nothing to be proud of

Your comment is rather preposterous. Grow up and get a life....REAL LIFE

Let's just say you are jealous because Muhammad Ali was a great boxer, a boxing legend and the biggest of all, he was a muslim. I am proud of him. May his blessed soul receive Allah's Mercy.

.

tola9ja:
"She sought the TRUTH, and the TRUTH set her free" Allahu Akbar! Kindly Watch this 3-Minute Testimony of how an Igbo Lady, Sister Confidence, (Now Aisha) EMBRACED ISLAM...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKQIQTCFeGI


You Shall No the Truth The truth Shall Set You Free

hericjames:
Muslim faithful help me I want to convert can you tell me the difference between allah and mohammed(saw)
Your answer will help tanks

@James, take note of this.

@bro Tola9ja, JazakaAllah khayran

Quotes Of The Day








I'd thought he would make it like other routine emergency visit to ICU. I'd thought he would be back home in couple of days not knowing he would transit from there to Qiyama.


May Allah have mercy on his blessed soul.

Muhammad Ali --------1942-2016

Quotes of the day

.

^

I'm outta here for your utterances. Don't know why you try several times to force name tag down my throat.

It will take another decades before both sides understand.

And of course I understand what @bro sino is saying.




#un-follow

hericjames:
Some christain brothers are tling me the truth hw islam does dere tins I think I am afraid of dere religion it dmands tomuch people wl laugh at me I hv coverted to times frm a jew to a christain now a muslim it going to b hard for me

With your eyes wide open you clearly see muslims here in this thread but you make NO ATTEMPT TO ASK THEM.

A cancer patient would visit a DOCTOR not a Tailor. Doubt your intention now, buddy. Are you a troll or something?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_kKbtmY3sI

Walaikum Salaam

UPDATED. ...........

Kontunu

Ayat Of The Day

annunaki2:
On the contrary it's islam that needs to prove itself.

Who is this?.

You have unfinished job here, sir. You have been UNABLE to establish your beliefs. Your christian doctrine contradicts other christians doctrine. You said Jesus is NOT God but other christian said Jesus is God. Which one should we believe, sir?. Here is the thread again https://www.nairaland.com/3086804/annunaki-read-old-testament


@hericjames, i was reluctant before but now i think i shouldn't hesitate. What is your belief as a christian please?.

I have to go this length now because of bugs in this thread. You said you are "getting to know the truth bhind the faith i:e islam"

What exactly do you know about islamic doctrine and what is yours?

Looool... I expected this

Sunni/Shia them no go carry last

It's no winner/loser.

#kontinu

Rilwayne001:
Lol, or maybe this guy is just one of those clowns.

Whatever rocks your boat sire.

I thought bout that but i honestly did not want to come to the conclusion. Wanted to give him benefit of the doubt.

He needs to prove himself.

^

Ummm, interesting!

Will look into that.

Hummm, Interesting! newnas, what do you think?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ee6RjFHryU

hericjames:
It getting more interesting am getting to know the truth bhind the faith and I hv decided nt to convert again

And do you mind telling us what that 'truth'is please?

This Story Appears To Be The Type Of Story About "omo onile" We earlier Discussed. This is rather silly.
http://naijagists.com/how-ogun-area-boys-stabbed-luth-doctor-adekoya-cole-to-death-over-unpaid-land-settlement-fee/

This New York Man, Mamadou Diallo was charged for protecting his wife from rapist trying to ra-pe his wife...smh

What Is Responsibility of Husband?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL8C1w2NUBo

Mamadou Diallo alleged self defense but the law says you have to see rape in progress to be considered self defense. In another word, he has to see his wife being ra.ped to be acquitted. Crazy!


http://pix11.com/2016/05/31/husband-arrested-for-beating-alleged-attempted-rapist-to-death-police/

Civil Rights Activists Better Get To Work On This

Michael Jackson died few years ago they call him late Jackson;


Yaradua died few years ago they call him late yaradua;


Mandela died last year they say late Mandela,


But since almost 1,500 years ago Prophet Muhammed died and no body not even the devil called him late Muhammed (S.A.W)...


Allahu Akbar!.He lives!!! He reigns!!!!! He rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sallalahu alaihi wasallam.


Allahu Akbar!!! 96% of people won't share it, but if u are 1 of 4% share this truth to ur friends.

[SIC]