₦airaland Forum

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
And the same apostle who wrote Revelation 3:14 also wrote John 1:1 to 3.

Therefore, any interpretation of "arche" that contradicts John 1:3 cannot be the correct interpretation.

The issue is not whether the Father is the Father of Jesus.

The issue is whether the Son belongs to the class of created things.

On the issue of 'arche' he's being insincere.

That is why, he'll be jumping around with different screenshot.

Arche means ORIGIN, SOURCE, RULER e.t.c that is why some translations put it this way

CSB “...the originator of God’s creation"
CEV "I am the faithful and true witness and the source of God's creation. Listen to what I say."
EASY "...Everything that God has created starts with me."
GNT “...who is the origin of all that God has created."

Janosky:
Did Jesus have the same Father /Ancestor with other beings in heaven?

So, how the Father senior Jesus if they are not of the same ORIGIN?

At least you're the one who claimed Father means SENIOR.

Why?
Hebrews 6:13, 1 Corinthians 8:6 God created EVERYTHING ,Jesus is NOT excluded.

No! The scripture says, ALL THINGS are created by Jesus and WITHOUT HIM(Jesus) NOTHING was created.

Do you mean Jesus created Himself?

Go and find out the meaning of ancestor in your Bible & stop deceiving yourself.

Just tell me how Father means SENIOR if Jesus and God not from the same ORIGIN.

1 Corinthians 3:23, Jesus belongs to God.
God owns Jesus.

How The Father means SENIOR if Jesus and God not from the same SOURCE?

Nobody owns God our heavenly Father & the Father of Jesus in heaven.

Father means SENIOR according to you.

How can the Father senior Jesus if they are not of the same SOURCE?

At least, you're the one who brought that claim of seniority.

"Archon/Ruler of creation by jesus" is NOT at Rev 3:14.
Jesus is " the Arkhe /Beginning of creation by Gid" is at Rev 3:14.

So God was lying in Genesis 1:1 that what He created IN THE BEGINNING was Heavens and the Earth.

Continue.

Oga, get this info internalized in your memory.

Just cool down, you know how it normally ends.

Janosky:
Is Hell the name of the garbage incinerator outside the walls of Jerusalem from Josiah's time to Jesus earthly life?

Yes! It's hell

Call that place in Jerusalem according to how Jesus called it & stick to how Jesus view it while preaching to his listeners.

How did Jesus call it?

Did Jesus teach you he saw torment of people in Gehenna?

Yes! Jesus said there will be GARNISHING OF TEETH AND WEEPING.

At that place in outside Jerusalem, was there GARNISHING OF TEETH AND WEEPING by the death body inside?

Oga,go and rest jare.

I'm doing that, do you?

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
That is exactly the point.

The discussion should remain focused on what the text actually says, not on assumptions imported into the text.

The scripture says:

"All things were made through Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)

Notice John's careful wording. He does not merely say that many things were made through Christ. He says that nothing that was made came into existence apart from Him.

Therefore, if someone wishes to place Christ among the things that were made, they must explain how Christ could simultaneously belong to the category of things made and yet be the One without whom nothing in that category was made.

That is the question that requires an answer.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 8:6 says that all things are from the Father and through the Son. Paul is not describing two different creations but one creation, with the Father as the source and the Son as the divine agent.

The more carefully these passages are examined, the more the burden falls on those who argue that Christ is a creature to explain how the Creator Agent of all things can also be counted among the things brought into existence.

I look forward to seeing how they address those texts directly and consistently.

The absurd response you'll get is that Jehovah created Jesus first then use Jesus to create ALL OTHER THINGS.

Firstly, notice that in other to corrupt God's word the word 'OTHER' which was never found in any known Greek manuscripts in possession today was inserted into their ONLY BIBLE translation several times. Which shows the kind of spirit working in them.

Secondly, if Jehovah created Jesus first then Genesis 1:1 will forever be wrong "In the BEGINNING God created the Heavens and the Earth" this is what God reveals to have created IN THE BEGINNING not Jesus. That is why John even placed the existence of the Word who became Flesh known as Jesus IN THE BEGINNING which means The Word witnessed ALL CREATIONS.

Thirdly, let's assume Jesus was created before ALL THINGS, where will Jesus live? Creature needs abode, reason why God created Heaven for Angels and physical word for physical beings. You'll realize that they can't answer you.

In conclusion, the scripture reveals that Jesus is the Creator! Any other interpretation than this is from the pit of hell.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The question is whether Christ belongs to the category called "all things" or whether He is the One through whom "all things" came into existence.

Paul's wording points to the latter, not the former.

Sure everything you wrote is what the scripture says.

Scripture says ALL THINGS come through Jesus, definitely Jesus can't be among ALL THINGS. Only a dishonest person will put Jesus among ALL THINGS again.

If fact, scripture explicitly says WITHOUT JESUS NOTHING WAS MADE. John 1:3

Well, let's see if your questions will be aptly answers by them.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
I have been the only one answering, it's time you all answer my questions.....

Key Questions to Challenge the Interpretation of Colossians 1:15–17 and Revelation 3:14

1. If Christ is “firstborn of creation” as “first creature,” how can all things be created through Him?

2. Did Christ create Himself, or is He outside the category of created things?

3. If Christ is part of creation, how can He be the agent of creation for all things?

4. Where does Scripture explicitly define “firstborn” as “first created being”?

5. Why is Israel called God’s “firstborn” (Exodus 4:22) without meaning “first created”?

6. Why is Christ called “firstborn from the dead” (Colossians 1:18) if it means biological birth order?

7. How can a created being sustain all things (Colossians 1:17)?

8. Can something created be the source and sustainer of all creation?

9. If Revelation 3:14 means “first created,” how does that fit with John 1:3 stating all things were made through Him?

10. Why does the New Testament never explicitly say “the Son was created”?

11. If the Father is Creator, why is He never called “firstborn of creation”?

12. Does “firstborn” in Scripture function only as birth order, or also as rank and supremacy?

13. Why is Christ worshiped alongside the Father if He is part of creation (Revelation 5:13–14)?

14. How can Christ be both “before all things” and simultaneously part of “all things”?

You will they won't answer any of your questions but come with another mombo jumbo

Janosky:
Jesus said your claim is not true.
John 5:37, Jesus said God his Father never came to the earth , no one has seen God's form, no one has heard God's voice."

John 5:43 "Jesus came in the name of his Father ,Yahweh.

Father means SENIOR,Elder,Ancestor.
God is the SENIOR of every other being,Ephesians 4:6.
Stop deceiving yourself thinking they are the same person in heaven.
Psalm 110:1-2 is in your Bible.

According to your own logic.

If Father means SENIOR, isn't that means both the Father and the Son are from the same SOURCE?

Or are you a senior to a Goat or Pig?

Janosky:
Paul is not diminishing CHRIST. He is describing the relationship between the Father and the Son in the work of creation.

Simply claiming that it cannot is not an argument.

Oga, looking at Romans 11:35-36 & 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 17:7, Father means SENIOR in the bible.
"One God the SENIOR from whom are ALL things."
Other Bible versions reads "One God the Father the Creator of ALL Things."
Did Apostle Paul or John exclude Jesus from All things ?


Another question ;
According to Paul,did Jesus come from the Father or come through the Father?
The truth is there in your Bible.

If Bible has not explicitly put Jesus outside the Creation only God knows how perverted you people would've made His word to be.

The scripture says ALL THINGS ARE FROM THE FATHER and THE SAME ALL THINGS are through Jesus.

But you have to accept the Father own but stylishly put Jesus own aside.

Is it the same ALL THINGS FROM FATHER THAT ARE THROUGH THE SON or the ALL THINGS through the Son is different?

Janosky:
Jesus Christ did not use the word "Hell" at anytime in your Bible.
In the gospels, Jesus said "Gehenna", a garbage incinerator outside the walls of Jerusalem at the time of Jesus earthly life.
Gehenna is the place where Jerusalem inhabitants dump & burn their refuse.
Nobody was tormented in Gehenna .
Gehenna is not a place of torment.

Jesus also said hades (Greek word for grave, resting place of the dead).
Hades is not a place of torment.
Nobody is alive in hades.

This is correct rendition of Psalms 9:17 :
"The wicked shall return to Sheol (Hebrew word for Grave, recall that God said Adam shall return to dust). All the nations that forget God"
Therefore,the dust is the Grave of Adam/the wicked.
Do not go beyond the written word of God.
Adam's punishment is the precedent God has set for sinners.
Did Yahweh send Adam somewhere for torment?
No,not at all.
If you don't research you won't know the bible truth.

When you people want to do your abracadabra you'll begin to mix English Language with Hebrew or Greek

How can Jesus use the Word HELL when Hell is an English Language?

Did Jesus speak English Language during His time on Earth?

Look at these inconsistencies in your post

Theawakensoul:
POINT 1: THE ENGLISH WORD "HELL" DOES NOT EXIST IN THE ORIGINAL TEXT

How can English word exist in Original text probably Hebrew or Greek?

The word "hell" is an English word. Yeshua never spoke English.

You forgot that the same word Yeshua is an English transliteration.

You people are too funny.

It simply means the realm of the dead. The grave. The place where people go when they die.

So, if ALL dead people actually have a PLACE they go, what is happening in that PLACE?

Not a place of punishment. Not a place of reward. Simply death itself.

Death itself isn't a place

The word appears in the New Testament and in Luke 16, the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Most people assume this story describes hell as eternal torment.

But the word used in that passage is Hades. Not Gehenna.

Two different words. Two different concepts. Combined into one English translation.

People didn't assume that's what the scripture says and you refuse to allow Scripture to speak for itself.

So, what is the concept of the story of the rich man and Lazarus?

POINT 5: GEHENNA

This is the word Yeshua himself used most often when people today assume he was describing hell.

Gehenna is not a theological concept. It is a real geographical location.

Ge-Hinnom in Hebrew. The Valley of Hinnom. A valley outside the walls of Jerusalem.

When Yeshua pointed to Gehenna, he was using a vivid, local, culturally specific image his audience immediately understood.

You should have cited all the places Jesus used the word Gehenna

One thing you failed to understand is that, if Jesus description of Gehenna is limited to Jerusalem, it means Jesus' message is limited to only the Israelites. Is that so?

AntiChristian:
Is it that you can't comprehend or what?

That question is for your own self.

Where did you see in that verse that Allah appeared to Musa?

The text you quoted says "...So when his Lord APPEARED to the mountain..."

You copy and paste this or not?

So, who appeared here?

I wasn't supposed to answer you knowing your IQ level but i just remembered the verse below:

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes. Proverbs 26:4-5

Just answer the question first.

Did Allah appear or not?

You can re-read the quoted Qur'an verse earlier. Allah didn't appear to Moses as it does not befit His majesty to appear to any human!

So, who did Allah appear to according to that text?

See it again: "...So when his Lord APPEARED to the mountain..."

atheistconverta:
It's ironic you didn't think your hypocritical calling of people who reason blindly as you "low iq" was "frustration", except when the tables were flipped...

By the way, I made it stark clear what disgusts me is you mentioning or quoting me because of your sheer hypocrisy, not sharing your views here which you're entitled to, so you can share your views without mentioning or quoting me, but of course your lack of understanding wouldn't make you to be able to comprehend that.

Also just Incase you don't realize it yet, there's now a banning feature available on what you called a public forum, which allows its members to keep haters and pests at bay, so I didn't need to be appealing to you like this or stop creating threads to prevent you from mentioning me.

I only wish it was permanent to keep all the unrepentant hypocrites and haters away once and for all.

I can't remember quoting this moniker

So, who is this or can you point to where I quoted your post?

AntiChristian:
This type of question is a logical absurdity or a loaded question based on a theological category mistake. It applies physical constraints (like geographic borders) to an entity defined as non-physical and omnipresent. Allah is All-seeing, All-knowing and All-Powerful. So He can do all things!

Being All-Seeing means He sees everything at the same time without any hindrance. Even your 36 states inclusive!

Being All-Knowing means He knows the beginning, past, present and future of everything! Even your 36 states inclusive!

So why does He need to appear there in again?

And when Mûsâ (Moses) came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord (Allah) spoke to him; he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allâh said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain; if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me." So when his Lord appeared to the mountain1, He made it collapse to dust, and Mûsâ (Moses) fell down unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers." (Surah Al-A'raf 143)

You asked why does Allah need to appear again?

Yet went further to quote where Allah appeared to Musa

Can Allah appear in all 36 states of the federation at once?

Remember, you agreed "Allah can do ALL THINGS and the quoted Quran text supported my question.

So, go ahead to answer my question.

jesusjnr2020:
Exactly why I said there's no difference between you and those you accuse of having low iq, or probably worse.

Just simple question is what leads to this frustration.

Na wa oooo

However you have every right to share your hypocritical views here, but please endeavor to do so without mentioning me next time.

Then why do you create thread on Nairaland?

The thread made it to the front page and I responded which is not even directly to you yet you find that offensive.

Anyways, if you don't want my mention then stop creating thread on Nairaland as this forum isn't your property and it's called PUBLIC FORUM for a reason.

Thanks in advance for not lacking understanding.

You're welcome!

AntiChristian:
One needs to remove his/her intelligence to believe in such!

You who doesn't even have the intelligent in the first place.

Can Allah appear in 36 states of the federation at the same time?

jesusjnr2020:
If you don't know, forget it.

Waoooooo just simple question and you fold

I should know and tell you what you know, when I'm not inside you, that's seriously ridiculous.

jesusjnr2020:
Yeah... Just like all those hypocrites that see the obvious errors in teachings of apostle Paul, but wave it aside because of blind sentiments, yet would attack those who have the audacity to reveal the obvious truth.

Same, same.

Who is the person revealing the obvious truth?

paxonel:
He shared it as a testimony

And to you this is eating with God.

This is very pathetic!

paxonel:
All the anointed men of God in all churches have stopped performing live miracles.

I remember those days pastor Chris used to do wonderful things on television screen.
Bishop Oyedepo had slapped a witch on pulpit.
Pastor W.F Kumuyi had healed a lamed fellow in a crusade
Pastor Enoch Adeboye had once eaten with the Almighty God or something mysterious.

Great things used to happen in those days, but all of a sudden, ever since covid 19, they all quench.

Now, we hardly see even malaria get healed.
Can someone please explain what is happening?

Where did Adeboye tell you he had eaten with God Almighty?

Cashylyxagricul:
Jesus’ Claims About Himself. John 8:48-59

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

For Abraham to be looking for Jesus day and the Old Testament reveals that it was Yahweh Abraham actually saw, then reinforced that Jesus is Yahweh in flesh.

Key point:

'Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”'

Tboy222:
You are in an inverted matrix , a computer simulated reality

Imagine, you're the one telling me who I am now.

So, if I'm all these, then who are you?

wake up, all religions are false.

Including the one you belong to, right?

Your God , your sky daddy is actually the devil himself.

You must have met your sky daddy for you to know who he is.

I'm not surprised thou.

chimex38:
I was surprised as well..
I recall when you were blocked for no reason.

That's to tell you the kind of person they are!

Tboy222:
The bible is pure quantum physics, the quantum and essenic teachings of Christ banned by the Vatican.

Jesus was a sirian lyrian gridworker, king and priest of the seven kingdoms of Atlantis before it fell alongside Maria Magdalena the erotic high priestess.

She is the LovePeddler and the Virginia, the LovePeddler that rideth the beast, the LovePeddler that sitteth upon many waters whhich are tribes and languages.

In other words Mary Magdalena is the matrix, or womb as Alister Crowley put it in this famous book the book of the Law.

She is known in Thelma as the red goddess or Babalon the beautiful, the woman in the robe of sin.

Jesus never taught repentance, he said wake up, you are in a simulation, like Neo in the matrix , wake up the universe is code, it is gematria.

Sir Isaac Newton at the end of his life discovered that they were inconsistencies in the mathematical and physical patterns of the universe.

He later believed that the secrets of the universe is hidden in the Hebrew bible called the Torah.

And your point is?

Tboy222:
The trinity the number 3 representatives the 666 inverted masonic or tetraclys triangle which contains the tetramagaton.

It represents the father the source, the mother the spirit and the androgynous Adam the son who was split into two energies or bodies the divine masculine and divine feminine, yeshua Ben yosef and Magdalena rose eternal twin flame.

Alister Crowley summarised it well in his famous book the book of thoth or wisdom.

Jesus Christ as Adam and Mary Magdalene as Eve the mother of all living, two halves of the same soul.

Both of the designed the garden of Eden a 15 dimensional quantum computer simulated reality matrix or truman show system based on the Hebrew gematrix numbering system popularly called the Torah code using equidistant letter sequencing which can predict multiple events around the Cosmos with infinite probabilities.

The system present the God of the bible as the devil himself, who threatens you with hell after death but in reality keeps you in endless reincarnation cycle or loops.

Sophia of Jesus
Aprocryphon of John
Testimony of Truth
Book of Thoth Alister Crowley
Lois Roden (Shekinah)
Apocalypse of Adam
Gospel of Philip

Annunaki 2025 movie (YouTube)
Annunaki ancient history (YouTube)
Galactic federation of lights (YouTube)
Mind unfettered (YouTube)
4bidden knowledge (YouTube)
Samuel blee MD (YouTube)
Hidden codex (YouTube)
Quantum majesty (YouTube)
Emspiracy official (YouTube)
Library of Thoth ( YouTube)

What is your point exactly?

jesusjnr2020:
Can Anyone Raised By Atheists, Versed In Science, Become A Christian?


Many irreligious people believe and usually claim that anyone who is a Christian, was brought up by Christian parents and have little or no knowledge of science otherwise they won't believe, however Dr Sarah Salviander, a Christian apologist, proved all their assertions wrong with the following post on X:

Anyone who came up with such statement is the one who has low IQ.

because people have been moving from one religion to another for donkey years.

But two things are sure:
1. It's either through personal conviction or
2. Through personal encounter with the True God.

Olofofo247ng:
Let's revisit the issues Nigerians debated in newspapers and magazines this month around 50 years ago.

Today, let us travel back to 1978 for Alexander Igbineweka’s proposed solution to Lagos traffic jams.

What's your view about this? Could this be the solution to the Lagos state frequent traffick jam?

Source:

The builder of Lagos forgot to solve this 1978 issue.

AntiChristian:
God does not hide himself. He is open! So your hidden God theory is false! Where did Jesus say he exist before the world began? Where was he? Jesus said before Abraham eigo eimi - i am he.

I never proposed a HIDDEN GOD theory, that's your pure figment of imagination.

Jesus was God and became a MAN but not God on Earth meaning He didn't come to ACT as God.

This is simple thing to comprehend.

Gospel of John 9:8-9 "The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar began to ask, "Is this not the man who used to sit and beg?" Some were saying, "It is he." Others were saying, "No, but it is someone like him." He kept saying, "I am he." ("ego eimi"" The Trinitarian Bible translators has toyed with your head far o!

You'll just come and be jumping around like a kangaroo.

I never used 'ego eimi' you brought it out but the fact I pointed out is that Jesus EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM according to Jesus own statement.

Cool down to read post before jumping into your own imagination.

Anyways! Jesus is a hidden 0% God and Open 100% man according to Emusan's Theory!

Your pure figment of imagination.

The deceit is the hidden God! How can God hide himself? And from whom is he hidding? What question? I see no reason for God Almighty to hide o! And only present himself as human when he's actually God too!

That is why I said your Quran has so be clouded your reason and you need to be spoon-feed like a baby but I don't have that time now.

Just a quick one: Heaven of heavens can't contain God not to talk of Earth. So, for God to fulfil His own plan of salvation, He has to step in. GOD IS NOT HIDING FOR ANYON. If God should come to earth in His full glory, the Earth will crumble at His feet alone.

But can't lower himself to lie? Can God fornicate or commit other crimes by lowering himself? By lowering himself to become man what else can he not do?

Nonsense question.

You already agreed that God is ALMIGHTY so, asking me this is so childish.

By being conceived and given birth to he had the DNA of a man! He was born just like any other man! He suck breast milk and shit on his body just like any other man.

Yes! because that is what make man to be man. FLESH AND BLOOD


Do you now understand the reason of those verses you quoted?

In fact, his mother may have rebuked him many times while growing up and in adulthood!

Nothing is bad there.

That is the attribute of Man.

If President Tinubu disguises himself and find himself in any Nigeria prison today. You should expect the Waders to treat him just 'ike any other prisoners.

But just imagine the moment a wader get information that the prisoner who has been with them for a while is actually President Tinubu.

So you think he will be treated like any other prisoners again?

So God is not a man! But your God is a 100% man with hidden Godhood!

"That He SHOULD LIE nor a son of Man that He should repent, what He said He will do..."

That is the how the scripture puts it.

Not that God cannot become a man.

The Qur'an that came to correct your heresies! Look at how you are everywhere!

Now you agree that the Jubril in you is not wise.

Truthseeker10:
Hmmm. Nawa.

You have to unblock me for you to do this.

Waoooooo

What an hypocrite!