₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
Emusan, why are you deceiving yourself .
In the screenshot,Emusan What is the meaning of Father @ Revelation 3:21?
Does Father in your Bible meaning Ancestor /Senior?

Ancestor/Senior can only be of the same NATURE/SOURCE

Are you and Ancestor/Senior to goat or pig?

Do you agree that God and Jesus have the NATURE the reason why God Senior Jesus?

Psalm 90:1-2,Did your own Bible teach you that God Yahweh has Origin?

Origin I use is for NATURE.

So, answer my questions above.

Janosky:
Oga, why you no dey study your own Bible ?

The clear difference between me and you shows how we use God's word to support our claim. It means I study God's word more than you.

Jesus Christ is teaching you that @ Revelation 3:14 Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God"

No! You people always change 'BY' to 'THROUGH' substitute each and see that your claim isn't following the context.

'Jesus is the Beginning of the creation through God'

That is why, no known scholar ever translated that in such way.

And the best rendering is 'He is the ORIGIN/SOURCE/ARCHE of God's creation'

Oga , go and learn the meaning of Revelation, it seems you don't know.

Of course, you can put forth the meaning here and let's figure it out together.

Revelation 3:14, Jesus is " the beginning of the Creation by THROUGH God" was not revealed in Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 & Revelation 3:14 confirmed that God created ,not Jesus.

See where the manipulation started
So, you mean God lied in Genesis that what He created IN THE BEGINNING Was not Jesus

Just continue.

Thereafter , open your Bible to Revelation 3:14. Jesus is the beginning of the creation by THROUGH God because God created the Universe (Heaven and Earth,Genesis 1:1) through BY his son, Hebrew 1:2.

Now, see how the word you are hiding exposed you.
You used 'BY' for God but when it gets to the Son(JESUS) you used THROUGH when in fact both mean the same thing.

I keep saying it, if not because you people are very dishonest, to be brainwashed by Watchtower will be so difficult.

So, Rev 3:14 isn't that Jesus is the FIRST CREATED BEING.

Jesus created the Universe (heaven and earth). IS NOT in your Bible, not in any verse

But without Jesus NOTHING WAS MADE.

By the was, you just confirmed above that Jesus is the Creator if you can honestly use 'BY' appropriately.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
If you truly want to use Scripture to interpret Scripture, then you must accept the verses where Jesus explicitly claims the honors due only to Almighty God. In John 5:23, Jesus states that the Father's will is *"that all may honor the Son **just as** they honor the Father."* Ask yourself: is it scriptural to honor a mere prophet or a created "worshiper" in the exact same way you honor Almighty God? If you give a creature the exact same honor, worship, and devotion that you give to the Creator, you are committing blatant idolatry according to your own doctrine. Yet Jesus commands it, because He and the Father are one in essence.

This particular statement here is what they usually use style to push aside whenever you raise it.

No creature can demand the SAME HONOUR given to God. As our service, Worship and praise are how will honor God.

Now, ask them have they been HONORING JESUS JUST AS THEY HONOR GOD?

You'll see the narration taking another dimension instantly.

MythicalGnosis:
Why would a spiritual idea be labeled heresy?

Think about it.

If people believe they need someone else to connect them to God, institutions gain power.

But if people discover that the divine is already within them…

Everything changes.

This is why certain ancient Gnostic teachings became some of the most controversial ideas in religious history.

They taught that the Kingdom wasn’t a place you travel to.

It was something you awaken to.

And that idea challenged everything.

The question is:

Would this message still be considered dangerous today?

If you’ve ever felt there’s more to spirituality than what you’ve been told, this video is for you.

👉 Watch now and decide for yourself: The Church Called This Heresy Because It Proves God Was Never Outside You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLbM6yvp4w0

The answer may be closer than you’ve been led to believe

Heresy comes from Greek word "Hairesis" meaning 'Making a choice' so from this you should understand why it's called HERESY and not a SPIRITUAL IDEA.

Anything spiritual (about Yahweh) must come from Him. So, any other ideas or a choice making outside what Yahweh reveals isn't SPIRITUAL IDEA but contrary ideas.

So, many doctrines that the early Christians rejected i.e Jesus is Angel Micheal or Jesus is not God are outrightly called HERESY because it's not from Jesus nor from the Father.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
Whether a church has 400,000 members, 4 million members, or 40 million members does not determine whether its teachings are true.

Of course, I know this but I'm just telling you the reason he is so upset with church name.

That if you tell him the name of the church you worship with and it's not under Adeboye, Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Olukoya e.t.c he'll still keep on asking you.

Like you rightly said, any claim is to be torchlight with the scripture and any claim that failed to meet scripture isn't to be accepted.

achorladey:
Loooooool! I tire oooo.

I was looking back at some of the discussions on various threads I joined only to find so many post that are hidden. I was like, what's going on?

I never knew it was the same attention seeker that blocked me.

Yesterday while going through the thread I saw his post then went back to my profile page and his profile page, I found out the block prompt was backed

Later he will deny that he didn't block me at all. I guess he must dished out imaginable lies and manipulations while he blocked me so I don't get to debunk them😂😂😂😂

When I caught him spying on my posts with one of his monikers (which I believe that's what he does to others too) despite being boastful of how our posts has no impact on him. Since then, I discovered he has stopped blocking me but I don't even have his time.

The truth is, he knows people who can have indepth discussion with him and he'll gain something are the ones he keeps blocking that's why he's going back to his vomit.

achorladey:
You are tired of blocking me abi? That your itching fingers can quote and mention me now.

When I told you the name of my church why were you so bittered about it that up till today you are yet to answer my questions in a concrete manner about Psalms 1:1?

MaxInDHouse are you happy based on Psalms 1:1?

So after lying that he will never block any ex-JWs, he still blocked you.

Well I know he's never a man of his own word sha

achorladey:
To the bold...

Ask Cornelboy abi na Cornelgirl

The attention seeker needs my attention so badly now.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The issue is not whether someone can name a church. The issue is whether your conclusion follows from the Scriptures.

Just know that he is not even interested in the NAME of your church but just wants you to be associated with a name like Adeboye, Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakelome, TB Joshua, Suleman, Eneche, Ibiyemo e.t.c

because under Pentecostal there are many church names you can never know to ever exist and the same with Anglican. So, when he asked you to be asking people's church name. Just know he wants you to mention that you're a follower of one big church name in Nigeria as it's a great disgrace to Watchtower achievement in Nigeria.

Jehovah Witness are over 100 years in Nigeria with about 400k members yet most churches that spring up years after them have more members than them, this is the beginning of the agony.

ola20ng:
Kidnapping has nothing to do with Islam. Kidnapping has been in Nigeria for ages and people from all tribes and religions are involved. Many of them have been arrested in the past.

The fulanis just discovered the lucrative business and took it to another level. They are doing it for money and nothing else. Fulanis are not that religious especially the nomads. They know nothing about Islam. They are just Muslims by birth. They don't normally go to school nor Islamic madrasa.

You people just need to stop attaching Islam to kidnapping. Muslims are being kidnapped also but you chose what fit your narrative

Who are you to make that statement?

Well the below pic is for people like you.

You can keep pretending to be a good Muslim but those who are using Islam to their advantage will just be laughing at you.

ola20ng:
You and VDK are not serious and you are at the same time fueling religious war.

Don't worry it will soon clear in your eyes.

Before, if you are told that terrorists will be kidnapping and beheading people in South West, you'll say it's a lie but today, it's happening right in front of your eyes.

I remember when people in the south are always advised we in the North to stay safe. Now, we in the North have used to it as we're now the one advising people down south to stay safe.

Look at these pictures below and read it slowly if you're in doubt

achorladey:
Loooooool to the bold. Una no go unalive person for here

And Mr Jano couldn't answer my question

achorladey:
That guy dey act like one Michael547. You bet they are masters of rolling out monikers of various kinds on nairaland and they point fingers at others over their cunning ways

It's the same guy with another moniker Truth something something

It's one of his loudmouthed brothers that burst that cover up

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
And the same apostle who wrote Revelation 3:14 also wrote John 1:1 to 3.

Therefore, any interpretation of "arche" that contradicts John 1:3 cannot be the correct interpretation.

The issue is not whether the Father is the Father of Jesus.

The issue is whether the Son belongs to the class of created things.

On the issue of 'arche' he's being insincere.

That is why, he'll be jumping around with different screenshot.

Arche means ORIGIN, SOURCE, RULER e.t.c that is why some translations put it this way

CSB “...the originator of God’s creation"
CEV "I am the faithful and true witness and the source of God's creation. Listen to what I say."
EASY "...Everything that God has created starts with me."
GNT “...who is the origin of all that God has created."

Janosky:
Did Jesus have the same Father /Ancestor with other beings in heaven?

So, how the Father senior Jesus if they are not of the same ORIGIN?

At least you're the one who claimed Father means SENIOR.

Why?
Hebrews 6:13, 1 Corinthians 8:6 God created EVERYTHING ,Jesus is NOT excluded.

No! The scripture says, ALL THINGS are created by Jesus and WITHOUT HIM(Jesus) NOTHING was created.

Do you mean Jesus created Himself?

Go and find out the meaning of ancestor in your Bible & stop deceiving yourself.

Just tell me how Father means SENIOR if Jesus and God not from the same ORIGIN.

1 Corinthians 3:23, Jesus belongs to God.
God owns Jesus.

How The Father means SENIOR if Jesus and God not from the same SOURCE?

Nobody owns God our heavenly Father & the Father of Jesus in heaven.

Father means SENIOR according to you.

How can the Father senior Jesus if they are not of the same SOURCE?

At least, you're the one who brought that claim of seniority.

"Archon/Ruler of creation by jesus" is NOT at Rev 3:14.
Jesus is " the Arkhe /Beginning of creation by Gid" is at Rev 3:14.

So God was lying in Genesis 1:1 that what He created IN THE BEGINNING was Heavens and the Earth.

Continue.

Oga, get this info internalized in your memory.

Just cool down, you know how it normally ends.

Janosky:
Is Hell the name of the garbage incinerator outside the walls of Jerusalem from Josiah's time to Jesus earthly life?

Yes! It's hell

Call that place in Jerusalem according to how Jesus called it & stick to how Jesus view it while preaching to his listeners.

How did Jesus call it?

Did Jesus teach you he saw torment of people in Gehenna?

Yes! Jesus said there will be GARNISHING OF TEETH AND WEEPING.

At that place in outside Jerusalem, was there GARNISHING OF TEETH AND WEEPING by the death body inside?

Oga,go and rest jare.

I'm doing that, do you?

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
That is exactly the point.

The discussion should remain focused on what the text actually says, not on assumptions imported into the text.

The scripture says:

"All things were made through Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)

Notice John's careful wording. He does not merely say that many things were made through Christ. He says that nothing that was made came into existence apart from Him.

Therefore, if someone wishes to place Christ among the things that were made, they must explain how Christ could simultaneously belong to the category of things made and yet be the One without whom nothing in that category was made.

That is the question that requires an answer.

Likewise, 1 Corinthians 8:6 says that all things are from the Father and through the Son. Paul is not describing two different creations but one creation, with the Father as the source and the Son as the divine agent.

The more carefully these passages are examined, the more the burden falls on those who argue that Christ is a creature to explain how the Creator Agent of all things can also be counted among the things brought into existence.

I look forward to seeing how they address those texts directly and consistently.

The absurd response you'll get is that Jehovah created Jesus first then use Jesus to create ALL OTHER THINGS.

Firstly, notice that in other to corrupt God's word the word 'OTHER' which was never found in any known Greek manuscripts in possession today was inserted into their ONLY BIBLE translation several times. Which shows the kind of spirit working in them.

Secondly, if Jehovah created Jesus first then Genesis 1:1 will forever be wrong "In the BEGINNING God created the Heavens and the Earth" this is what God reveals to have created IN THE BEGINNING not Jesus. That is why John even placed the existence of the Word who became Flesh known as Jesus IN THE BEGINNING which means The Word witnessed ALL CREATIONS.

Thirdly, let's assume Jesus was created before ALL THINGS, where will Jesus live? Creature needs abode, reason why God created Heaven for Angels and physical word for physical beings. You'll realize that they can't answer you.

In conclusion, the scripture reveals that Jesus is the Creator! Any other interpretation than this is from the pit of hell.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The question is whether Christ belongs to the category called "all things" or whether He is the One through whom "all things" came into existence.

Paul's wording points to the latter, not the former.

Sure everything you wrote is what the scripture says.

Scripture says ALL THINGS come through Jesus, definitely Jesus can't be among ALL THINGS. Only a dishonest person will put Jesus among ALL THINGS again.

If fact, scripture explicitly says WITHOUT JESUS NOTHING WAS MADE. John 1:3

Well, let's see if your questions will be aptly answers by them.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
I have been the only one answering, it's time you all answer my questions.....

Key Questions to Challenge the Interpretation of Colossians 1:15–17 and Revelation 3:14

1. If Christ is “firstborn of creation” as “first creature,” how can all things be created through Him?

2. Did Christ create Himself, or is He outside the category of created things?

3. If Christ is part of creation, how can He be the agent of creation for all things?

4. Where does Scripture explicitly define “firstborn” as “first created being”?

5. Why is Israel called God’s “firstborn” (Exodus 4:22) without meaning “first created”?

6. Why is Christ called “firstborn from the dead” (Colossians 1:18) if it means biological birth order?

7. How can a created being sustain all things (Colossians 1:17)?

8. Can something created be the source and sustainer of all creation?

9. If Revelation 3:14 means “first created,” how does that fit with John 1:3 stating all things were made through Him?

10. Why does the New Testament never explicitly say “the Son was created”?

11. If the Father is Creator, why is He never called “firstborn of creation”?

12. Does “firstborn” in Scripture function only as birth order, or also as rank and supremacy?

13. Why is Christ worshiped alongside the Father if He is part of creation (Revelation 5:13–14)?

14. How can Christ be both “before all things” and simultaneously part of “all things”?

You will they won't answer any of your questions but come with another mombo jumbo

Janosky:
Jesus said your claim is not true.
John 5:37, Jesus said God his Father never came to the earth , no one has seen God's form, no one has heard God's voice."

John 5:43 "Jesus came in the name of his Father ,Yahweh.

Father means SENIOR,Elder,Ancestor.
God is the SENIOR of every other being,Ephesians 4:6.
Stop deceiving yourself thinking they are the same person in heaven.
Psalm 110:1-2 is in your Bible.

According to your own logic.

If Father means SENIOR, isn't that means both the Father and the Son are from the same SOURCE?

Or are you a senior to a Goat or Pig?

Janosky:
Paul is not diminishing CHRIST. He is describing the relationship between the Father and the Son in the work of creation.

Simply claiming that it cannot is not an argument.

Oga, looking at Romans 11:35-36 & 1 Corinthians 8:6, John 17:7, Father means SENIOR in the bible.
"One God the SENIOR from whom are ALL things."
Other Bible versions reads "One God the Father the Creator of ALL Things."
Did Apostle Paul or John exclude Jesus from All things ?


Another question ;
According to Paul,did Jesus come from the Father or come through the Father?
The truth is there in your Bible.

If Bible has not explicitly put Jesus outside the Creation only God knows how perverted you people would've made His word to be.

The scripture says ALL THINGS ARE FROM THE FATHER and THE SAME ALL THINGS are through Jesus.

But you have to accept the Father own but stylishly put Jesus own aside.

Is it the same ALL THINGS FROM FATHER THAT ARE THROUGH THE SON or the ALL THINGS through the Son is different?

Janosky:
Jesus Christ did not use the word "Hell" at anytime in your Bible.
In the gospels, Jesus said "Gehenna", a garbage incinerator outside the walls of Jerusalem at the time of Jesus earthly life.
Gehenna is the place where Jerusalem inhabitants dump & burn their refuse.
Nobody was tormented in Gehenna .
Gehenna is not a place of torment.

Jesus also said hades (Greek word for grave, resting place of the dead).
Hades is not a place of torment.
Nobody is alive in hades.

This is correct rendition of Psalms 9:17 :
"The wicked shall return to Sheol (Hebrew word for Grave, recall that God said Adam shall return to dust). All the nations that forget God"
Therefore,the dust is the Grave of Adam/the wicked.
Do not go beyond the written word of God.
Adam's punishment is the precedent God has set for sinners.
Did Yahweh send Adam somewhere for torment?
No,not at all.
If you don't research you won't know the bible truth.

When you people want to do your abracadabra you'll begin to mix English Language with Hebrew or Greek

How can Jesus use the Word HELL when Hell is an English Language?

Did Jesus speak English Language during His time on Earth?

Look at these inconsistencies in your post

Theawakensoul:
POINT 1: THE ENGLISH WORD "HELL" DOES NOT EXIST IN THE ORIGINAL TEXT

How can English word exist in Original text probably Hebrew or Greek?

The word "hell" is an English word. Yeshua never spoke English.

You forgot that the same word Yeshua is an English transliteration.

You people are too funny.

It simply means the realm of the dead. The grave. The place where people go when they die.

So, if ALL dead people actually have a PLACE they go, what is happening in that PLACE?

Not a place of punishment. Not a place of reward. Simply death itself.

Death itself isn't a place

The word appears in the New Testament and in Luke 16, the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Most people assume this story describes hell as eternal torment.

But the word used in that passage is Hades. Not Gehenna.

Two different words. Two different concepts. Combined into one English translation.

People didn't assume that's what the scripture says and you refuse to allow Scripture to speak for itself.

So, what is the concept of the story of the rich man and Lazarus?

POINT 5: GEHENNA

This is the word Yeshua himself used most often when people today assume he was describing hell.

Gehenna is not a theological concept. It is a real geographical location.

Ge-Hinnom in Hebrew. The Valley of Hinnom. A valley outside the walls of Jerusalem.

When Yeshua pointed to Gehenna, he was using a vivid, local, culturally specific image his audience immediately understood.

You should have cited all the places Jesus used the word Gehenna

One thing you failed to understand is that, if Jesus description of Gehenna is limited to Jerusalem, it means Jesus' message is limited to only the Israelites. Is that so?

AntiChristian:
Is it that you can't comprehend or what?

That question is for your own self.

Where did you see in that verse that Allah appeared to Musa?

The text you quoted says "...So when his Lord APPEARED to the mountain..."

You copy and paste this or not?

So, who appeared here?

I wasn't supposed to answer you knowing your IQ level but i just remembered the verse below:

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes. Proverbs 26:4-5

Just answer the question first.

Did Allah appear or not?

You can re-read the quoted Qur'an verse earlier. Allah didn't appear to Moses as it does not befit His majesty to appear to any human!

So, who did Allah appear to according to that text?

See it again: "...So when his Lord APPEARED to the mountain..."

atheistconverta:
It's ironic you didn't think your hypocritical calling of people who reason blindly as you "low iq" was "frustration", except when the tables were flipped...

By the way, I made it stark clear what disgusts me is you mentioning or quoting me because of your sheer hypocrisy, not sharing your views here which you're entitled to, so you can share your views without mentioning or quoting me, but of course your lack of understanding wouldn't make you to be able to comprehend that.

Also just Incase you don't realize it yet, there's now a banning feature available on what you called a public forum, which allows its members to keep haters and pests at bay, so I didn't need to be appealing to you like this or stop creating threads to prevent you from mentioning me.

I only wish it was permanent to keep all the unrepentant hypocrites and haters away once and for all.

I can't remember quoting this moniker

So, who is this or can you point to where I quoted your post?

AntiChristian:
This type of question is a logical absurdity or a loaded question based on a theological category mistake. It applies physical constraints (like geographic borders) to an entity defined as non-physical and omnipresent. Allah is All-seeing, All-knowing and All-Powerful. So He can do all things!

Being All-Seeing means He sees everything at the same time without any hindrance. Even your 36 states inclusive!

Being All-Knowing means He knows the beginning, past, present and future of everything! Even your 36 states inclusive!

So why does He need to appear there in again?

And when Mûsâ (Moses) came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord (Allah) spoke to him; he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allâh said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain; if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me." So when his Lord appeared to the mountain1, He made it collapse to dust, and Mûsâ (Moses) fell down unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers." (Surah Al-A'raf 143)

You asked why does Allah need to appear again?

Yet went further to quote where Allah appeared to Musa

Can Allah appear in all 36 states of the federation at once?

Remember, you agreed "Allah can do ALL THINGS and the quoted Quran text supported my question.

So, go ahead to answer my question.

jesusjnr2020:
Exactly why I said there's no difference between you and those you accuse of having low iq, or probably worse.

Just simple question is what leads to this frustration.

Na wa oooo

However you have every right to share your hypocritical views here, but please endeavor to do so without mentioning me next time.

Then why do you create thread on Nairaland?

The thread made it to the front page and I responded which is not even directly to you yet you find that offensive.

Anyways, if you don't want my mention then stop creating thread on Nairaland as this forum isn't your property and it's called PUBLIC FORUM for a reason.

Thanks in advance for not lacking understanding.

You're welcome!

AntiChristian:
One needs to remove his/her intelligence to believe in such!

You who doesn't even have the intelligent in the first place.

Can Allah appear in 36 states of the federation at the same time?

jesusjnr2020:
If you don't know, forget it.

Waoooooo just simple question and you fold

I should know and tell you what you know, when I'm not inside you, that's seriously ridiculous.