₦airaland Forum

frosbel:


And these verses prove that Jesus is GOD, lol.

You have lost the plot, utterly so.

Read again and this time put on your thinking hat !

And hou have always been a dunce of course?

So which God purchased the Church with His blood?

So Abraham was called "Yahweh" --- is thast what you are saying?

Ihedinobi: Beloved bro, one small correction: The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all I AM, that is, Yahweh. Doesn't mean that they're the same person. The Name speaks of Absolute or Ultimate, that is final, unchanging, Reality. That is what God is.

I will like to add to this point by Ihedinobi that certainly in The Septuagint, the word Yahweh is translated as 'Kyrios'.

'Kyrios' itself is often translated into English as "Lord" ---- indeed when we see "Jesus is Lord" what we are seeing is the translation (in part) "Jesus is Kyrios" so it really is not alien to see/understand it as "Jesus is Yahweh".

In addition to the passages pointed out by Goshen360, let me point to one more ---- although I know that the inevitable result will be "translation gyrations"

Acts 20:28

NIV

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

NLT

"So guard yourselves and God's people. Feed and shepherd God's flock--his church, purchased with his own blood--over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as elders.

NASB

"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

frosbel: Young man, you are welcome.

Thanks again Juvenile; o ye of infantile "logic and reason".

frosbel: Stop playing with our intelligence by this gibberishology.

Your "intelligence"!!! "Intelligence"!!! "Intelligence"!!!

I honestly don't think your "intelligence" could ever be insulted; nothing said about can be insulting, I don't think!

frosbel: Alpha and Omega does not mean YAHWEH , or does it ?

I said to you before that you don't know the meaning/importance of things like that i.e. "Alpha and Omega".

Interestingly, does that mean your eyes have now opened and you now realise it was Jesus speaking throughout Revelation 22?

frosbel: True believers are shunning this incomprehensibility that does immense violence to our sensibilities.

Ok "true believers" indeed,

frosbel: It is not evident.

And you LIE , Peter , Paul , Thomas and John never thought JESUS was GOD.

Ah, I remember you "translation gyrations" about things like: when John said Jesus was with God and was God; when Thomas said "My God"; when Peter said "our God and saviour" (both expressions about Jesus) etc etc etc. Yep, more of your infantile "logic and reasoning" of the brainwashed.

frosbel: You are a polytheist without knowing it.

Thanks. God is ONE and consists of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

frosbel: Okay Young Man.

Thanks, Juvenile, o ye of infantile "logic and reason".

frosbel: It is an issue, because you cannot say GOD is ONE and THREE at the same time, it is nonsense.

God is ONE but consists of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. It is quite easy really.

frosbel: Not really, believers in GOD accept this by faith because it is written and also because with GOD , the only ONE GOD , nothing shall be impossible.

Well, believers in God trust and accept it when God Himself refers to The Son as "O God".
Believers in God also accept it when The Son calls Himself Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last, The Beginning and The End.

frosbel: On the other hand the Trinity is not written but wrongly and erroneously implied.

The "Trinity" is evident in the Bible; and that is why the apostles called Jesus God ---- thankfully we have several clear examples e.g. Peter, Paul, Thomas, John etc etc

frosbel: Not a surprisingly illogical conclusion from someone who accepts the illogic of a 3-god god as TRUTH.

Of course with your infantile "logic and reason" you do not truly understand logic.

And because your logic is weak and infantile you resort to the nonsensical talk about a "3-god god" --- whatever that means.

frosbel: You are a young man, trust me.

And you are of course a juvenile with infantile logic and reasoning. Trust me.

frosbel: God is ONE , that this is explicitly stated, depicted and implied in the whole of scripture in a methodical , harmonious and contextual way is logic enough for it to be accepted as verifiable fact.

God is ONE of course. As if that has ever been an issue.

frosbel: False teachers are those who try to cajole others, especially the sheeple , to accept mysterious dogmas that defy reason and logic and cannot be substantiated with evidence in the bible.

Does the virgin birth defy reason and logic or not?

frosbel: The day atheists start to believe that there is ONE GOD and Jesus is his SON, is the day I will become an 'atheist'

Like you they apply "logic and reason" to say Jesus cannot be God; as they have told you, if you keep applying "logic and reason" in that same way as them you will reach the same place as them; thus that all of the following "defy logic and reason": Jesus' virgin birth; Jesus walking on water; Jesus feeding the five thousand with just a few loaves and fish; Jesus resurrected; Jesus ascending into heaven etc etc etc etc etc

Actually, being a "unitarian" it shouldn't take you that long to discard all these things; many Unitarians do too.

And of course you could easily advance and end up ------ yep, an atheist.

frosbel: indeed not.

Like I said young man, thousands upon thousands of evangelical Christians are abandoning the irrational doctrine of the Trinity.

This doctrine is an obstacle used by your likes to prevent people from entering the kingdom of GOD.

Be careful.

As I said, if you call me young man then you are a juvenile. As I said also, your reasoning {indeed as well as your 'new' "logic and reason"} have all always been infantile.

It doesn't matter how many (you claim) are abandoning the "Trinity doctrine" or the Biblical revelation that God is ONE and that each of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit is God. Jesus Christ Himself and the apostles all warned us about false teachers, wolves and even id.iots who will come in the fold and try to lead people astray. Nothing new!

You tell me to be careful ---- very funny; you do not realise how lost you already are. Some people warned that you will return to the Roman Catholic Church ---- they were wrong. The people that were right about you are sadly and unbelievably the atheists! Only you don't realise it, but they were right and that is where your "logic and reason" is leading you ----- yep, right into atheism!

^^^^ Not pitting you against each other as such ---- just showing you the consequences of your claim to be using the same "logic and reason" as the Moslems and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well, Christians have a different approach to the interpretation of the Bible of course --- as compared to your Moslem and Jehovah Witness colleagues.

frosbel: And being a Muslim or JW , does not exempt you from knowing the TRUTH. They are God's offspring as Paul said, so very much permitted to analyse the logic and reason of biblical doctrines and to make informed decisions.

Ah, I see!

1. That's why the Moslems agree with your "logic and reason" and conclude that Jesus was not crucified!

2. That's why the Moslems agree with your "logic and reason" and conclude that Jesus was not resurrected!

Interestingly the Jehovah's Witnesses who also agree with some of your "logic and reason" differ from you since they at least believe that Jesus existed before the virgin conception and birth and that he is "a God". Is it their "logic and reason" that is superior or yours; when are you going to reach reconciliation and agreement with them?

kreamstaff: Hi Forsbell I'd like to believe you are using an unadulterated version of the Bible. If so please read John 1: 1 - 17 and explain what you understand by it as per the personality of Lord Jesus.
Please state the bible translation you read from, so I can understand your point of view on the aspect.

May the Holyspirit guide you

@kreamstaff

Please indulge and humour me with an answer to the following question. Who do you understand to be the speaker in the following passage?

Revelation 22:12

“Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

frosbel: evidence supporting God's mighty Power.

evidence young man, show me the evidence of the Trinity from Genesis to Revelation, I want evidence that GOD is 3.

If I am a young man you are a juvenile; in any event your reasoning has always been very infantile and you are actually no more than a juvenile in that respect.

The evidence that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God and that God is ONE has been presented to you too many times. But of course you choose to turn away from Christian teaching and evidence but to accept the evidence of Moslems, Jehovah's Witnesses and "Unitarians". Have you ever even investigated who "Unitarians" are? Actually, a little task for you: google/research the association of Unitarians with "Metropolitan churches"

frosbel: God is ONE Spirit, not 2 Spirits.

Stop dividing GOD .


Jesus is not GOD , he is the SON of GOD, to make the SON also GOD tears down reason and throws logic into the bin.

God is a God of logic and reason.

To feed five thousand with just five loaves and two fishes "tears down reason and throws logic into the bin"!

How can a "God of logic and reason" do that?

frosbel: Indeed it does make sense, it's in the bible.

The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God - Luke 1:35

Remember rule No.6.

6. A belief may not be claimed to be so obvious that it is not even mentioned in the Bible, then said to be a central tenet of faith.

So you don't even know the meaning of "logic"; you are just throwing around words all over the place!

^^^^ Does the virgin birth conform with your understanding of "logic"?

Is the virgin birth nonsense?

No matter what the "anti-Trinitarians" say {and we know the spirit behind their "fight"}, the following truths taught in the Bible have never, can never and will never be "debunked".

1. God is ONE
2. God The Father is God
3. God The Son is God; and
4. God The Holy Spirit is God.

tevinsolt: because u are not a true believer in christ, historical evidence shows clearly that the apostles believed he was God your here 2000+ years later saying you will keep fighting against trinity.....what makes you different from Muhammadians?

He has indeed been getting quite some support from a range of 'Muhammadians' on his various threads although, if you notice, the vast majority of his supporters are actually Jehovah's Witnesses with further support coming from misguided professing Christians and some non-Christians with an axe to grind.

Historical evidence certainly shows that the apostles believed Jesus Christ to be God. First, they said so themselves in the Bible; second, the people who were taught by the apostles e.g. Polycarp also reflected this in their own writings; third, even secular (non-Christian) writers reflected this e.g. Pliny the younger saying the early Christians sang hymns to Jesus as to a God.

^^^He is also a dunce! He is talking of Jesus' nature defying logic ----- well, I suppose next he will progress to telling us that Jesus was not born of a virgin because that also defies logic.

Well, for the benefit of those who may read this thread at one time or other, let me state firstly that the words that I have quoted from Revelation 22 are the words of Jesus Himself. I provide the relevant quotations again and also I link to a couple of sites of Bibles with Jesus' words in red. In any event, any intelligent person can read Revelation 22 and determine for themselves who is speaking these words.

22:12 And, behold, I come quickly;
and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have
right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.
I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

For cross reference http://www.togetherweteach.com/TCB/New/27Revelation/27reve22.htm

and http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CP27RevelationRed2.htm

truthislight:
Did that Revelation mention the name of Jesus as the alpha and Omega or you are forcing it on the scripture? . . . .,

Yes it very much did; you know that I have quoted a longer version from revelation 22 before and I will quote it below for you again.

Before then, going back to the verse 12 above, who is it that is coming with His reward ----- is it God the father or is it Jesus Christ? Remember that the person coming with His reward is the one referred to as Alpha and Omega.


Revelation 22

6 The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

truthislight: ^^^^
but u know this is not true.

Correction.
Yahweh is alpha and omega.
Peace

And Jesus also is Alpha and Omega; here is just one example of where the Bible says so clearly.

Revelation 22:12

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

^^^^ The importance and significance of the fact that the "last book of the Bible" says Jesus IS God is lost upon you, naturally.

You do not realise that it is telling those who are wise that the point of the whole Bible is to say that Jesus IS God.

Well, as "the last book of the Bible" says: Jesus is Alpha and Omega ---- if only you know what that means.

^^^ That they cannot deal with the passages from Revelation 22 especially shows that it is not very productive engaging them ---- the only use of the exercise has been to provide the counter points for the benefit of others.

Deep Sight: Lol. You empty piece of bogey from the anus of a gutter rat, feel free to direct your insults at me and not people you don't know, dirty make-believe christian.

Oya, answer the OP. . . . . . as if you ever will.

Your siblings and other members of your family that are Christians are, like me, empty pieces of bogey from the anus of a gutter rat and dirty make-believe christians.

Deep Sight: Where is Enigma? He will either jump on a high horse and ignore this thread, or claim that nobody here is being "intellectually honest"

Olodo of a swine that he is.

Since your siblings and I guess other members of your family are Christians, I'm sure they too are swine; oh and Olodos too.

@frosbel

Just shut up; remember you had no balls, no cojones, to debate this issue ----- until now that you find yourself in league with Jehovah Witnesses and Moslems providing you with back up.

Look, I have tried to hold back my impressions of you so don't push me any further.

deleted dp

^^^ He says the title "Alpha and Omega" is exclusively for God the Father.

When we showed him places in the Bible where the same very title "Alpha and Omega" is used also for Jesus, what does he do?

He covers his eyes with his hands and pretends not to see.

https://www.nairaland.com/1059664/jesus-god-logical-questions-need/3#12400411

Yep, that's exactly what he does.

truthislight: i dont really know what you are unto. . . . .

The matter is very simple; you only need to answer a simple question honestly. It is sufficient if you answer it truthfully to yourself, you don't have to answer it publicly here.

Is Jesus Christ not the Person referred to as Alpha and Omega in Revelation 22:12? Simples.

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

ijawkid: Please enigma abeg u just show me from the scriptures were it says those who do not agree that Jesus is GOD is the anti christ...

Thank you sir!!!!

I throw way salute......

Please compare what you are alleging with what I actually wrote ---- they are different things.

Enigma: . . . I certainly agree that it is the spirit of anti-Christ that makes a person deny that Jesus IS God - no matter that the person may be well intended.

Ihedinobi: Yeah, Jesus is most definitely God as He is most definitely Man or else He couldn't have mediated between Man and God. He was and is a true and impartial representative of both sides, fully answering their demands, if any, and for their responsibilities, if any.

A denial of Jesus's Deity or His Humanity is the denial of salvation itself and effectively removes the one denying out of fellowship with children of God. It is thus a betrayal of the Blood of the Covenant to receive such a one as a brother.

Bros, I agree with most of these except I think the last sentence should probably be tempered.

There are a number of senses in which the word "brother" could be used legitimately even in relation to non-Christians. Purely, as human beings it could be fair to refer to another as "brother"; compare also "my Naija brother", "my African brother", "my Igbo brother" or in the case of our West Indian friends "me bredren".

As I said, I agree with most of your post and I certainly agree that it is the spirit of anti-Christ that makes a person deny that Jesus IS God - no matter that the person may be well intended.