₦airaland Forum

ChinenyeN:
Please, let's not make this an issue of Biafra vs Nigeria. This is a topic on African self-determination. Yes, I understand that the topic of Biafra is [loosely] tied to this, but this ought not become another shouting contest over Biafra.

Agreed.

What we should be asking is how do we get back to our pre-colonial states?

It doesn't make any sense that the Hausa are split up among different countries.

I remember hearing a story in which Shagari went to Niger to speak with his counterpart and they had to use interpreters since he spoke English and his counterpart spoke French. Shagari decided that this was nonsense, since they both spoke Hausa so they started conversing in Hausa.

asha 80:
I hope rethink is not trying to derail this thread.

I am pretty sure that is exactly what he is doing.

He wants to turn this into a Nigerian tribal battle, but I wont allow him to do so. This topic is about Africa in general.

It is time to redraw the map of Africa. Then there will be progress.

rethink,

You wrote a whole lot of nonsense. I wasn't just taking about Igbos, I was talking about Africans in general. Oromo people, Amhara people, Somali people, Ewe people, Akan people, Yoruba people etc. Why can't we have our own nation states? These borders are not working for us. Will it take another 50 years for you to understand that it is not going to work. People wonder why Africa is not progressing and this is the main reason why.

Look around the world and you see most nations are almost homgenous in nature. Japan, China (Han acct 85% of the population) etc.

Are you trying to say that the Igbo governors are our leaders? Do not make me laugh. They do not represent us. These men are stooges and clearly do not represent the interest of the Ndi Igbo. So I will not say that they are my leaders. You think T. A. Orji is my leader? 

And what does this have to do with the Ijaw people? They have a right to self-determination as well. They can form their own nation for all I care. They have oil, we have oil that is not tapped. No biggie. Oil isn't everything. It seems like Non-Eastern ppl are stuck on oil. Oil is the glue that keeps us together.

Yes, there divisions amongst Igbos, but who cares. There is division among many people. You think Germany is truly united? You got the remnants of Prussia and Bavaria in Germany, but they still having their own nation.

rethink:
I am not surprised. Kosovo is very different to Serbia.

1) Kosovo is made up ethnic Albanians and Albania supported their armed struggle
2) America wanted to cut the power of serbia because serbia was seen as anti west.
3) Kosova does not have oil like some parts of Nigeria( I know you will jump up and say ehen)
4) Kosovo plained their armed struggle very well unlike some parts of Nigeria where some ambitious soldier just shouted biafra.

The Serbs considers Kosovo as their cultural heritage, so of course they will be mad. Yet, why is it different for Kosovo which has such a small population. Even smaller than the Ijaw population.

Biafra may not have been planned well, but it was a response to people being killed in large numbers by another group. When a nation cannot protects its citizens, then those citizens have a right to opt out of that union. The East had every right to leave Nigeria. And continues to have that right. The only reason why we are still here, is because a gun is still pointed at our head due to oil being found in the region. If there was no oil, then we would have already split up.

agiator,

I could not allow your response to go unanswered. Kosovo did not fight for it, NATO fought for their independence from Serbia in order to spite Russia which is a huge supporter of their fellow slavic country of Serbia. The Serbs were committing attrocities in Kosovo and NATO kicked them out of Kosovo. Serbs could not do anything about this province, because the Western European nations would not allow them to do anything in Serbia. Learn the history, before you talk to me.

And concerning the Ogoni, I said I think. When somones says they think it is this way, that means that they are not sure. I wasn't sure so that is why I worded it like that. I am half Ibibio and I speak it fluently as well as Igbo so do not talk to me about such issues.

The case about Israel, read about the Balfour Declaration and the Palestine Mandate before you talk to us. After WWII, Europe felt sorry for the Jews, but they did not really want them in Europe, so they gave them their homeland back at the expense of the Palestinians. After the British left, the Arab nations decided to recapture Jerusalem, but the Israelis defeated them. Britain gave them their sovereign nation, but Israel fought for it to continue existing.

Most African groups see other groups as burdens. The Niger Deltans see the north and the southwest as burden on them, cause their oil is being used to benefit the whole nation even though other regions are not doing anything. I sympathize with the Ijaw and they have a right to self-determination. No one said splitting up is easy, and blood will be lost, but every people have a right to control their own destiny.

The fact in the matter, I support any people's right to self-determination. If the present situation is not working, then a group of people should have a right to form their own nation. This is most needed in Africa, where these borders have done nothing for us, but cause more bloodshed.

No one said it was going to be easy, but anything is better than the present situation we have now. Sudan went through many civil wars and now the people in Southern Sudan now have the right to choose if they want to stay in that union or leave.

I wish those Biafran soldiers did not give up so easily. My father would tell me that many of his comrades would have rathered went into the bush and start a guerilla war than surrender, but that is history now.

ChinenyeN,

I think next year will be a monumental year in the entire international systerm. The ruling of the courts to give say that Kosovo was not acting criminally when they declared independence in 2008, is going to send shockwaves around the world. Not only on the continent of Africa, but also in Asia as well or possibly in Europe. The Basque of Spain were the first to comment on this issue and they said that it has given them more impetus to create their own nation.

Sovereign nations right now will have a hard time containing these independence movements that operate within their nations. The world is going to become a less stable place.

And I am part Ibibio and I know what I am talking about. When an Efik man speaks, I understand, when a Calabari man speaks, I understand. We all speak the same language, but maybe in a different dialect.

In the U.S., you have different dialects of English like southern English, yankee English and midwest English, but they are still one people. Why is Africa any different? As soon as we get rid of these clan based loyalties, the better.

ikenwan:
Now this is the perfect explanation. At the national level, European tribes self-identify e.g. an Englishman won't call himself a Frenchman, but at the International level, Western Europe acts as one.

The European Union is a new concept, and it is going through some strains right now. Western Europe did not act as one in the past. The British and the French were bitter enemies and they fought a 100 year war.

In addition, Germany rose up twice in two world wars that brought Western Europe to its knees. The only reason why the allowed Germany into the European Union is to contain them. Western Europe does not act as one when it comes to international relations. They all have their own voice and this is where I disagree with you.

But that is another discussion.

udezue:
Guy I am baffled by the same thing. When the Jews yearned for their own state the UK had no problem going all the way back to Palestine carve out Israel. The Jews lost about 6 million while Biafra lost about 3 million. Both were being persecuted but somehow black Africans of Biafra didn't deserve their own nation. The USSR split into several nations and there was no objection. Tiny Kosovo just did the samething yet even fellow Africans can't see the imbalance in the way bothe people are treated so different. I just don't get why we don't believe in ourselves.

Our fellow Africans are our worse enemy I must say. There are a lot of groups in Africa who yearn for their own nation, like the Oromo people of Ethiopia, but fellow Africans say no. Our "leaders" do not want something to happen, because they know the people will hold them accountable for the injustices of keeping regimes in place.

Most African nations fear self-determination, because they know that this will inspire people within their borders. Watch the referendum in Southern Sudan next year and see that the African Union will probably not recognize their independence.

As the black americans say, black people suffer from the "crabas in a barrel" mentality. When one group does well, the other groups will try to bring them down.

ikenwan,

I agree with what you have said, but the question is, why do people in Europe are given the opportunity to have homogenous or close to homogenous nations. Germans live in Germany, Italians live in Italy, French live and France etc. These nations are based solely on one major ethnic group.

I know people like to argue that Africa is made up of many tribes, but a lot of these tribes have no business being made into a seperate ethnic group when they all speak the same language or just a different dialect. The example I like to use is the Ibibio. Efiks, Ibibio, Calabari and I believe Ogoni all speak the same language, but people act like they are different ethnic groups. They are one of the same.

babyjowo:
Okay, so this Okonkwo man is into this illegal business of diverting fuel into his well because he is an igbo man? So if I am not igbo, I am therefore incapable of theft and dishonesty? So only citizens who are igbo would commit criminal acts in the hopes of making a fortune?

Please educate me and open my eyes for I am ignorant of these 'facts'.

Every evil vice committed in Nigeria is done by an Igbo man according to some. Even though our crimes pale in comparrison to those of the past leaders who were not Igbo, but stole billions of billions of dollars, not naira.

I always have had a problem why European nations can get self determination, but when it comes to Africa, we can't.

Kosovo is such a small nation, in which some of our minority tribes like the Ijaw have a bigger population than the population of Kosovo, yet when an African people want self-determination, the whole world says we can't

Why must we keep our colonial borders?

Don't we all see that most African nations have not seen progress since independence but actually has gotten worse.

Let us have a non-tribalistic discussion so[b] ignore people who will want to derail this thread [/b]and make it the usual Igbo v. Yoruba nonsense.

See all these attacks on my people and you wonder why I hate Nigeria with a passion. I wont be tribalistic in my post, but if you had the Ndi Igbo so much, then don't complain as we start the process of dividing again.

asha 80:
I have said it before the two orji's and the matriach there deserves two bullets at the back of their heads.

Agreed! I normally don't support violence, but in this case, these kidnappers in Abia need a new profession. Killing these thieving politicians.

Make a mockery of my state. 

This man needs to be dealt with.

All progressive Abians, maybe we have to be like the Yoruba when it comes to politics. These thieving Igbo politicians are way too comfortable with their lives.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=483954.msg6432931#msg6432931 date=1279822673]LOL Uchenna, no thread derailing [/quote]I don't intend on derailing ur thread.

presido1:
This is almost the population of Luxembourg. I trust soldiers their razor blade is sharper then the nacent(those once made in china). Make them bring them home jare we need population. Chei but person fit loot him cousin or sister sef without knowing.

If you papa na soldier ask question well well before taking any gyl home.

My people say "ebe nwa siri loo uwa ya hiri"

Very funny

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=483954.msg6432910#msg6432910 date=1279822473]Shey you? Me that can even take you down in a fight [/quote]I would love to see you try. You are talking to a wrestling champ.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=483954.msg6432818#msg6432818 date=1279821409]I'm too precious to be kidnapped.

I'll stay in Ekiti State where everything is mellow and lovely lol.

If this will keep 7,000 criminals off the street, then I certainly support it[/quote]You wouldn't be kidnapped with me.

A core Igbo man be with you. Who knows those creeks better than us?