TAO11:
Eeeeehnhn-ehn?? ??

Even Igala folks too (like Binis, Igbos, et al.) also want a share of this our Oduduwa ??

Make una no worry, las las we go leave this our very Oduduwa for una.

Who no like better thing??
———————
PS:
But next time forge a non-contradictory script about Oduduwa.

Not this lame script of he is a Bini with an Igala name. Make up your f**cking mind bro. LMAO!

Abi you be another Bini miscreant masquerading as Igala ni ??

The sooner you understand he is not your "oduduwa", the better for you. He only migrated to ile-ife after he ran away from Igodomigodo .. even the igalas also attest to this.. Lmao

TAO11:
(1) Translate the Bini word “Ogiso” into English.

(2) Map each component of the English to each of the components in the original.

In my lifetime, I will continue to see to it that Benins make use of their brains.

My friend Ewuare-2 dared me that it is impossible. I told him to watch and see.

Cc: budaatum

Stop making a fool of yourself. The meaning of Ogiso is quite straight forward, unlike the yorubas that will add suffix and prefix to a name just so that it has meaning to them.
Ogie (king)+ iso (the sky)= (Ogiso) king of the sky.
So straight forward.

Damovintrain:
What if I tell you that Ife originally is located at Kogi? And odudua was an Igala name that's Odu du WA meaning God's gifts.
hear how it started.

The so called Oduduwa was a bini Prince who had quarrels with his younger brother on who would succeed the late king their father.
The younger began to sort means of harming the elder and was overwhelming the later. So the elder decided to leave the fight and allow his brother ruling instead of shedding blood.

On his way running, he was caught by Ogala Kingdom boundary security guard.
So after asking him who he was and where he came from, he feared not to be returned back to his bini people, so he said he was God sent or from God.
So immediately, the guards rushed him to the king as he repeated the name as God sent.

After some while in Ogala now Igala Kingdom, the king gave him his daughter to marry with an allotted land to farm known as Ife.
There he bore children and feared that soon if he didn't change environment, his people would one-day know about this and come for him.

So he ran with his wife and children to the now known Ile Ife that's Ife house or home of Ife.
So meeting some Yoruba's there who were fighting war with the hope of finding a saviour, Odudua introduced himself as the sent from God.
They asked for signs to proof his claim, he took them to a mountain top and instructed a rope to come out of the sky which he told them was his means of transportation to earth. Though some believed he got these magical powers from his bini Kingdom while others held it that the Ogala people who practiced Ifa (traditional religion of sand, water and air ).

So after he lead them to battle which was won, he was installed as king.

He was ruling when the bini people learnt their king was ruling another land successfully. So they came begging he follows them back but he refused rather asked one of his sons to go on his stead who was later killed.


Till tomorrow in Ile Ife, there's a stool that no Yoruba person can sit on except a bini extract.

And only a bini person can coronate an Ife Oba...

Sorry I can't keep names and dates of this story... So no dates and names like the Ogala king,bini late king then etc

Hmmm.. The igalas also agree with the bini origin. Interesting and nicely said. I also agree with the bolden.

budaatum:


Na, I don't trust you. You lie about reading Johnson so you'd probably be lying about the 10k or would argue that you have not been educated about the origin (and meaning which Johnson never mentioned) of odu ti o da iwa.

See how you dissected a simple name "oduduwa" to odu ti o da iwa. You guys are clowns. You are plainly fabricators, trying to give yoruba meanings to every name you come across. Very funny post

samuk:
This is what Yoruba historical greats recorded about the Ooni in late 1800s and early 1900s.

in his book The History of the Yorubas Samuel Johnson wrote that the Ooni of Ife was a descendant of a mere shrine keeper, rather than real royalty (a myth which had actually been prevalent in other parts of Yorubaland even before Johnson wrote his book.

The historian Robin Law cites other instances of this myth about the Ooni of Ife being some kind of shrine keeper or non-royalty existing in other parts of Yorubaland dating from before and after Johnson's book was published).

The Ooni was nothing but a chief priest or babalawo before his political elevation.

It is well known that there was a pregnant woman who was meant to be sacrificed to the Yoruba gods for roaming the streets during a particular festival. Her life was spared because she was pregnant and she was told to dedicate her unborn child to serve the yoruba gods. She eventually gave birth and dedicated her child to serve the Yoruba gods. This child later became the chief priest that worked under oduduwa. His job was to fetch herbs and look after the shrine when oduduwa was busy doing other things. This child was named "Ooni". This was the first time the name "Ooni" was used on Yoruba land... But just take a look at these disgraceful fabricators on nairaland claiming that Ooni was derived from Oghone, presumed to be the same person as Oghene. Just imagine the concoction of fables put together by the Yoruba revionists. This is a shame. Lol

samuk:


Also don't forget that Benin who was supposed to be related to the Yoruba through Oduduwa was visited repeatedly since 1400s and by 1600s the catholic church had a permanent mission with priests in Benin city who documented all aspects of Benin lives yet Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were never mentioned.

If she is arguing that Yoruba history wasn't sufficiently documented, what about Benin history?

There in no mention of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in either Benin or Yoruba history as being humans that actually lived before 1800s.

The best you can get before the 1800s is Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being legends and unsubstantiated myths.

You are right on target Sam. There is a very high possibility that Oduduwa etc are all myths, but due to the "politics of history" involved at the moment, we are still going to win the yorubas on this debate because the Benins have well documented history to our advantage. You are right, the yorubas will always rely on our history because ours is properly dated and well accounted for.

samuk:


Yoruba eyewitness written history began proper in 1826. This was the year the Alaafin received his first European visitor who started documenting the hinterland of Yoruba. Benin eyewitness documentation was already 400 years old by this time. To catch up with the Benins they came up with the Benin/Ife connection.

They went through Benin historical archives and started distorting it by misrepresenting names that have nothing to with Ife and Oduduwa as being Ife and Oduduwa.

Whenever you are debating them on Oduduwa they keep going into their distorted Benin historical archives to support their lies.

Show us Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in Yorubas history before 1800s, they cannot provide us any evidence of Yoruba history of Oduduwa before the 1800.

I'm well aware of this.. I know their tricks and I laugh all the time when I see them stealing Benin history. It's laughable but at the same time quite sad. How can a bunch of people be so desperate to fabricate history. It is fun to watch though. It just shows how important the Benins are to certain ethnic groups.

TAO11:


—————
In sum, @Samuk the laughing stock wants to see EUrOpEaN writings (on Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, et al.) from a period when EUrOpEaNs had not yet visited.

This is laughable.. you just stated not long ago that the Europeans visited the awories and ijebus in 1472 and 1500's. The story of oranmiyan would have easily been recorded by the Europeans if they truly visited yorubaland in this era. You keep on shooting yourself on the foot. Oranmiyan left the Benin shores around 1170 and was ruling oyo in 1200AD. So you can see it's around the same time line as your so called Europeans visited the awories . If the Europeans didn't write down the ancestorial history of the "so called" yorubas at that time, please tell us what would have been more important for them to write about ? This is becoming really laughable.

samuk:


I finally triggered something in you, keep the lies coming, I will be looking out for when Oduduwa and Oranmiyan finally came into your story as historical persons.

You have given us citations from the 1400s and 1500s, no Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife mentioned yet. Maybe you should try 1600s, 1700s and 1800s. Please tell us when Oduduwa as a historical person came into Yoruba history, this shouldn't be too difficult.

It's easy to tell fairytales but very difficult to defend them with evidence.

You told us aworis settlement was visited in 1472, Ijebu in 1508 and Benin in 1480, I still don't see were Oduduwa was mentioned in these various visits by the Europeans or where those that was visited told the Europeans about Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Until you can prove me wrong with evidence, the Oduduwa story of being a person other than a myth was created in the 1800s. Please refute it if you can.

You must be deluding yourself by giving us unrelated references to the topic and then tell us Oduduwa ruled Ife under a different name, what year was that, who wrote it down and what year did Benin Oghene metamorphosed into Oduduwa?

Yoruba can't back up Ife and Oduduwa story without looking for unrelated names in Benin history to twist, first you told us Ogane that was mentioned in Benin history was Ife, now you are telling us that Benin Oghene was Oduduwa, yoruba also have to rely on Benin to date Oduduwa to the 1100s. Without Benin history your Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife fallacy is dead on arrival.

You keep referencing and misrepresenting Benin history to back up your Oduduwa fairytales.

Please give us references from Yoruba historical sources earlier than 1800s to back your fabricated Oduduwa up. You can't come here to be using Benin history to defend your Oduduwa story and when the Oba of Benin says he was a Benin prince, you are full of insults.

You have nothing to back your Oduduwa story earlier than 1800s, the Benin you rely on are telling you that he was a Benin prince, you are trying to select the narrative that suits your bigotry.

As for your other minions, I have no time to waste on them. They have nothing but insults to offer.

Nice one Sam... Benin Oghene is completely different from the Yoruba Ooni. What the yorubas have done is take parts of the Benin history and claimed it as theirs. It shows how desperate they are to be part of Benin kingdoms history.

babtoundey:


E gba mi o, this meatball is equating the angel of the Abrahamic religion to the angel of the Benin/African cosmology. Which of the Benin/Edo traditional religions affirms the existence of angels in Bible and Qur'an.

You're daft and you refused to admit it. Celestial angel ko, Catholic angel ni.
Giving an accurate meaning to the word oba has always been a big deal for all you.
There were times you all said oba means king. When you were dragged, you said it's equivalent to "it is shining". You later made a U-turn to say it means "it's red". Now, it is celestial shinning/angel. What meaning will you give to it tomorrow? You all are bunch of jokers.

Oba connotes king and it is purely a Yoruba word. This is how the word is derived
o ba - "O"is a second person pronoun while "ba" is a verb which connotes perches, dominates, oversees, or rules. so the word oba means he who perches over/dominate/rules/has authority over something.

Ask another Yoruba person he will give the same meaning.

With time, your lots will come around to tell us "ogun", "sango", "olokun", "ogboni" in Edo language have different meanings with the ones in Yoruba language.

celestial shining.. What can be more ludicrous!

Oga stop crying, you sound childish. Oba in Benin means two things and it's clearly stated in its lexicon. It either means "shinning light" or "red".. most people ask for more details about the "shinning light" and that is why I broke it down and said it can also be ascribed as "celestial or devine". It's left for you to understand that simple definition or you can keep on ranting on such inconsequential details. If angels in Yoruba land have dark dimmed light around them that's your own problem. Other religions and traditions depicts them as otherwise. So get a grip of yourself and move on with life .

I told you earlier that Edoid dialect is different from yoruboid dialect. The sooner you let this sink in the better for you mate. The word "Oba" has a different meaning for both ethnic groups.

TAO11:
This ones’ brain actually came as fairly used, but I will still be nice enough to offer you free education sha! Hehe
(1a) Rui de Sequeira visited the Aworis’ settlement in 1472 and he documented the received name of their island (and its immediate lagoon outlet to the Atlantic) as the Lake of EkoAromi (translated) — that is, “Lago de Curamo”

(1b) Duarte Pacheco Pereira followed suit in 1508 to the same settlement; and to IjebuOde as well, writing about the great city, its ruler, its moat, etc.

(1c) In fact, according to Benin written accounts, the first EuroPean visitor to Benin (in the 1480s), Joao Afonso d’Aviero, was first in Yorubaland (Itsekiri) before messengers came from the Benin king, begging that he should please visit Benin too.

(2) Oduduwa ruled Ife under the following titles among several others:

(a) ‘Oghone’ (which is later spelt/articulated as ‘Owoni’, and now spelt/articulated as ‘Ooni’).

The Binis of old articulate this title of the kings of Ife as ‘Oghene’. ~ See your Oba Erediauwa’s “The Benin-Ife Connection” for an example.

[By the way Erediauwa was a terrible liar, but he was conscious enough of the need to admit this particular fact].

(b) ‘Olofin’ (of which ‘Alaafin’ of the Oyos, and ‘Alaofin’ of the Kogi-Yorubas are dialectal variations).

(c) ‘Adimula’ — amongst many other titles.

That’s the education you’ve been requesting. I didn’t oblige because it is irrelevant to the actual classes I was taking you on at the moment.

(3) (a) The Benin custom of Yoruba tribal marks was received by M. Crowder as pertaining to coronation.

You must therefore first present the Benin bronzes which depict a time of an oba’s coronation.

(b) Moreover, the Benin custom of Yoruba tribal mark was received by M. Crowder as a non-permanent one drawn by chalk.

You must therefore first argue for the linguistic and metaphysical equivalence of chalk and razor.

Firstly, you said foreigners visited the aworis in 1472. Where is the documented proof to back up your claims? You haven't made any point until you back it up with proof. The itsekiris are not on Yoruba land, they migrated to the edoid land, so get that straight. Foreigners met the itsekiris on edoid land, besides the itsekiris are a mixture of different tribes, (Yoruba, Benin and igala). The Yorubas alone have no claim on Itsekiri even though there forefathers migrated from the south west after mingling with Benin soldiers known as the aonis. If you don't know this part of history. I can easily educate you.

Secondly, how does "oghone" or "owoni" relate to Ooni? They don't even sound alike. Fabricators are fully active here . The only thing you Yorubas know how to do is twist and fabricate the meanings of names.

Oghene was not gotten from Oghone or whatever name you call it. The Oghene the Benins are familiar with was located around Niger benue confluence and not in ile-Ife. The Obas of Benin have never regarded any Ooni of ile-Ife as the "Oghene".. so get that straight. It is quite obvious because the whole world can see the Oba of Benin has no such respect for the Ooni of Ife talk less of classifying him as the "oghene". It's quite laughable. In his inauguration speech, the Oba of Benin told your so called Oghene (ooni) right to his face that Ekalederan also known as Oduduwa was the son of ogiso owodo. So this matter is settled as far as Benins are concerned

This article regarding chalk being used to draw a tribal mark on the oba face, what date was it published? Revionist at work, if it was not published before 1897, just forget it. It's not worth debating. You said the publisher got such claims from crowder, where is this crowder from, if he is British I'm sure you are aware that the brits would do anything to take power away from the Benin kingdoms and hand it over to their neighbours.

As you can see, I replied you quite plainly without adding abuses or rude remarks. Learn to do this as well because people will take you more serious when you start presenting your claims in a descent manner. Cheers!

babtoundey:


What nonsense are you writing for heaven sake! You must have seen an angel before for you to have notices an angel shines at his first appearance.

Prior to the arrival of Oranmiyan in your midst, your forbears knew nothing like Obaship.
Oranmiyan was recognized as a king but he wasn't given obaship .. Another piece of nonsense. what then was he given? What was he called? Why did your people abandon your Ogiso system for a system alien to them. We need to hear more lies. Tell us how you abandoned the system in place for a new system just at the arrival of an Alie man.

If you have no idea what an angel looks like, that's your own business. Read your Koran or bible to get a vivid idea if what I'm talking about. I don't like talking to people with low IQ.

Have you ever read any historical document depicting oranmiyan as "OBA oranmiyan" ?.. Dude, think straight. When you are ready to have a proper argument, let me know.

Jagunlabiodua:


Benin and IFE history dates back to More than 1000 years, why are you people so ignorant and stupid, a Yoruba man OBA is Benin king and Benin are Yoruba people speaking different dialects. There language is similar to Yoruba dialects. You now know more than a whole OBA of Benin, what sort of arrogance is this? Are you normal, do you think this people don’t have family history that they pass orally to offsprings? Do you know the secrets behind the crown? Don’t come here and say you know the history of Benin more than the King, it is Nigeria north that divided Benin and Yoruba for politics, OBA of Benin is a Yoruba king period. All OBAs in Yorubaland throw banter on who is superior but they know their history better than you

Benin speak edoid dialect while yorubas speak yoruboid dialect. There is a big difference so get that straight. A Benin man will understand naturally what an Esan or urohbo man is saying, he will never understand what a Yoruba man is saying unless he learns the yoruba language. Edoid and yoruboid dialects are totally different which means the people are different as well. The only thing that brings us together is the proximity of our lands, we are neighbours.

davidnazee:


He listened to the full speech, just don't want to accept that their great Oduduwa was an exiled Edo prince.. he puts his pride before his senses..

Hahahaha!... don't mind them

Olu317:
Your Oba of the land of IBinu simply declared sevendays or so for venerate his ancestor Odudua.Why ask me silly question? The point is that Ekalederan is not your Odudua.

You are a clown. The same Oba clearly stated in his inauguration speech that the exiled prince Oduduwa also known as Ekalederan is the son of Ogiso owodo. Go and listen to the full inauguration speech of the Oba. You probably watched the edited version. Lol

babtoundey:


The meaning given with Gregtoy disagrees with yours. He said it is a child that shines. Which one should I believe? A child that shines, a celestial light, it is shining or it is red?
And if Oba means "celestial light", what would iyooba mean? Mother of the celestial light?

Edo and Japan sharing the same words maybe a sheer coincidence as long as they have no historical connections..But in this case the connection is very pronounced. Only some egoistic, shallow minded, empty and delusional check-my-profile Nairaland historians will deny the connections between the two people.
If Oranmiyan a Yoruba prince was in Edo, if the son of a Yoruba Prince, Eweka (Owomika) was the first Oba in Edo, if Oranmiyan established a thriving kingship system in Edo, then the word oba and the other words you shared with Yoruba to make reference to the same thing, person, thing or god, are nothing but Yoruba.

As for the part of "there was never Oranmiyan, there was never, Eweka, and there was never Oduduwa" and other nonsense being propagated by some miscreants on Nairaland, I have made my choice; I choose to believe the oba and not some nonentities. Whatever evidence, proof, or reasons you have to contend and disprove such standings and established facts, forward it to the Oba and his historians. Call him a liar before you call me a liar, tell him he is ignorant of his father's origin and his people's history before you tag me ignorant, convince the oba and make him belief your erroneous nonsense before you convince me

You don't expect me to start explaining word for word to you. I said "Oba" means shinning or celestial light (devine).. but the full title is Omo n'Oba edo which means "child that shines for edo"

Like I said earlier you shouldn't expect me to explain every little detail to you. Try and use your initiative to figure out little details. I summed it up that "shinning light" can be classified as "devine".. for example when you see a celestial being "angel" the first thing you notiice is the shinning light surrounding the angel, that makes the angel "devine".. in othere words "iyooba" in Benin language means "mother of the devine".

In Benin Kingdom they don't describe the Oba as just a "king". The translation of King in Benin is Ogie, but the Oba has never been called Ogie before and that is because the Benins classify the Oba as a king that is above all other kings (ogie). Let's use the Ogiso terminology as an example. The Benins always use appellation to name their kings. That's how the title Ogiso came about. Ogie+ iso= Ogiso, which means "king of the sky". The same goes for the oba of Benin whose full title is "Omo n'oba n'edo. So stop using the Yoruba terms to define the Benin kingship. Their method of naming their kings is completely different from that of the Benins. They practice different cultures.

Oranmiyan was not in Benin when Eweka was crowned king, so what makes you think Oranmiyan introduced obaship to the Benins?. Or did you ever hear that the Benins crowned Oranmiyan and named him oba?. Oranmiyan did not create the obaship title in Benin, it was the Benin chiefs that created it just the same way they created the Ogiso title after the era of the Odionweres. Oranmiyan was recognised as a king before he left Benin but he wasn't given the obaship title.

babtoundey:



That "Omon'oba N'Edo" is even a Yoruba phrase

Omo Oba Ni Edo meaning the child of the king in Edo

Sorry but it does not mean the same thing in Edo language. It is "Omo n'oba n'edo"... and not "omo oba ni edo". Besides Oba does not mean king in Edo. It means celestial light (devine).

The capital of Japan in the past was known as "Edo"... that does not mean the Benins are related to Japan. The same goes with how Oba has different meanings to both the Yoruba and Benin. It's okay for different tribes to share similar words but have different meanings.

samuk:


I get your point, both can be done at the same time by finding clever ways of put things in their proper historical and political perspectives. When the need arises, we should be able to separate history from politics and at the same time also play politics if we are call upon.

The way I deal with my fellow Benin is to simply point to them that Oduduwa, Ooni, ife and Oranmiyan were not mentioned in Benin written history between 1400s to late 1800s, a period of 400 years, this is usually enough to get them thinking.

Don't forget we all once believed the Oduduwa narrative to be true until it was pointed out that it was a recent narrative which made alot of us to research more into our history. A gentle approach is usually enough otherwise you will lose your audience, and if you do, your message is lost.

Loud it.. let it sink into their ears. It's just simple logic. Nicely said Sam.

gregyboy:



Lol, you couldn't attack me properly


Ooh sometimes l like debating tao11 tho she is a lier but she doesn't ask foolish questions abd she always bring something new to the table untill recently



Lol, again were you there when the ogiso invented the adah and eben, is it the benin elders that couldn't count how many obas have ruled them and the age they ruled that
You want me to take history from


Do you know that esekhure went to copy the nanes of the kinglist from egharevba when they were initially compiling the list


Go and read benin kinglist chronology
Search and read dont remain ignorant free yourself


So because some benin chiefs said so you believed its true

Did you even see my egharevba screenshot were he clearly stated the ogiso ruled when there was ni sun or moon

My screenshot now shows esekure consulting egharevba when he was compiling his kinglist if benin past rulers for the British, he had to go and spy from egharevba to compile his, someone egharevba ought to be consulting was now consulting egharevba

Oga youre ignorant and proud and that alone disgust me about you

Kindly give the name of the publisher of this article you posted with detailed reference.

From your statement starting from your second paragraph I'm 100% sure you are not a Benin man. You are probably from Ph or probably akwa Ibom. You are just intrigued about Benin history and that's why you want to know more.

All Benin scholars on this blog have tried to advise you on the right path to follow but you have turned a blind eye. Samuk adviced you just 2 days ago as well. I wash my hands off you. Cheers!

gregyboy:



Now that particular quote i refrecend egharevba on

Were egharevba said ogiso ruled when there was no moon or sun

That particular quote was not original from egharevba that quote was gitten from Benin in 16Ad in the oba palace by a ethnography who visited the palace

Egharevba just referenced it, and i was unable ti find the original quote that's why i used that of egharevba

Find the original quote and post it here. Enough of fabrications. Egharevba's work is full of controversies, he was a brilliant historian but he let personal greed get the best of him.
Kindly post the original quote here, we will work with that.

gregyboy:




Oga any of the oba can introduced the adah and eben was it written in the adah thst that ogiso invented it

Am telling you nothing like ogiso existed bro

Yes i never deniel the mention of the wods ogiso used by benin in ancient context, i simply showed why it is a myth made up by bins

The title of benin rulers have always been oba

How did i know, i read ancient context, on benin naratives talking about ogiso

One the ancient tex goes like this

*Ogiso ruled in the time of no moon or sun 1600AD

*Ogiso were displace by a whiteman who came through the waters, and slept with the ogiso daughters and gave birth to eweka


With all knowledge from bini custom and history you would see ogiso never existed, it was mythical talks, just like ogene n uhe..


, you said your grandfather talked about names of various ogiso, please what year i really want to know, any names of ogiso after 1914, is void, they were made up by the palace and learnt by the chief recently after 1914


Throughout the mention of ogiso pre 1914
There was never a mentioned of particular name of ogiso who ruled, they only mentioned ogiso as a ruler, and not a particular ogiso
It easy after pre 1914 to make up history to patch history

Was your father a chief or a commoner?


Ogimien history happened long after eweka history, ogiemien history had no associate with any oromiyan or Oduduwa that didnt exist,

Ekaladerhan and ogiemien history
Was simply when prince Ekaladerhan was accused of sleeping with one of his fathers wife, his father was an oba not ogiso because ogiso never ruled, this made the then oba father angry, and asked them to kill Ekaladerhan with no appellation or judgement, Ekaladerhan fled to ughton that was yet unestablished then as a settlement and hid
In the forest of ughton, and later after the oba had died the truth came out Ekaladerhan was wrongfully accused and some chief went in search of him they found him at ughoton and was asked to come to take his throne, that
Ogiemien (lord of the sea) probably a strong olokun worshiper which tells from his name
Had already sat on the throne and Ekaladerhan fought him and they came to an agreement after the war, because of much causualtity...
Note: the ogimien would say anything to get attention saying the oba is a yoruba man makes him more eligible to the throne...

Now oba erediawa in blessed memory twisted the original story of Ekaladerhan taken around 1906 and added oromiyan and eweka to it....to have a flavour of Oduduwa and attached it to yoruba

Youre making my work hard Pick a book and read


See my screenshot below from a Benin renowned historian

I will keep on telling the correct history on Nairaland till the truth is out, i know some palace people are on Nairaland here


Screenshot one shows how egharevba describe the ogisos

Picture 2 shows were egharevba got his information from

You are unbelieviable. If you are so vast in Benin history, mention the Oba that invented the Adah and Eben. Or do you think they fell from the sky. Learn history from your elders and stop assuming. You are assuming alot and it is not good for your reputation in here.

Secondly, what was the name of Ekalaredan's father since you say his father is an oba ?

In other threads you keep on saying egharevba distorted Benin history for personal gains, but when it concerns the Ogisos you never stop quoting egharevba's work. Isn't this funny

Olu317:
Your ignorance is geometric.The point is that Ekaladeran descendants are alive. Infact they are in Ughoton and in this case conscripted as Captain, Ohen okun and as Olokun worshiper,b

'Many reasons could be adduced. First, the Ohen-Okun, the chief of Ughoton was at this time the head of the village as well as the chief priest of Olokun temple, who was direct descendants of Prince Ekaladerhan, the founder of Ughoton village. So sending the chief of Ughoton as an ambassador to Portugal was like sending a Prince from the palace of the Oba to Benin'.

From above statement Olofin DodoIwa/ DuduIwa/ Odua was not your Ogiso Owodo's Ekalaredan,who founded and died in Ughoton.I thought you people claimed he had no children apart from mysterious Ileife children in your dreams.



In the furtherance of bursting Edo e-liars , Alfonso d' Aveiro account says, 'And the king of Benin sent to the king of Portugal as Ambassador, a negro who was his captain in a seaport known as Ugato wishing to have news of our lands, the people of which had been in Beny considered a great novelty”…

This only proof that he was not a prince but a loyal servant to the Oba from Yoruba ancestor.

From the bolden in your concluding sentence.. where is it written in the article you posted that "Oba has Yoruba ancestors"?. You can see how yorubas like yourself just cook up stories from thin air. You guys are terrible liars and fabricators. This is quite sad.

Olu317:
Your Oba knows the truth , which is the reason, he took it upon himself to honour his ancestors by doing a sacrificial rites as being done by Fagbamila Olalomi, Oramiya, Owu, Ake, Alaafin, Awujale,etc.

Meanwhile, Ekerlederan died in Ughoton. . Edo liars. Read the founder of Ughoton direct descendants , who went to visit King Emmanuel of Portugal in 1505.

Itis a fact that Ughoton Ohen Olokun was the direct descendant of Ekerlederan; descendant of Owodo.

Interview with Mrs. F. Iguakun, Age-46, Venue Ughoton, Occupation-Nursing.

Interview conducted on 15-4-2013. For further information on religion at Ughoton, see interview with Christopher Enodunmwenben, Age-59, occupation – farming , venue-Ughoton.

Interview conducted on 6-4-2013 and interview with Rolland Obazee, Age-71, Occupation-Retired Soldier, Venue-Ughoton Village. Interview conducted on 6-4-2013.

-Interview with Thomas Okunhon, Age-75, Occupation-farming, Venue-Ughoton Village. Interview conducted on 6-4-2013.

-Isichie, E . History of West Africa since 1800 (Macmillan Publishers, 1969)

Macmillan Publishers, 1969). The date published speaks volume. Work of revionists. No need to waste my time on this. Cheers!

Jagunlabiodua:


Benin and IFE history dates back to More than 1000 years, why are you people so ignorant and stupid, a Yoruba man OBA is Benin king and Benin are Yoruba people speaking different dialects. There language is similar to Yoruba dialects. You now know more than a whole OBA of Benin, what sort of arrogance is this? Are you normal, do you think this people don’t have family history that they pass orally to offsprings? Do you know the secrets behind the crown? Don’t come here and say you know the history of Benin more than the King, it is Nigeria north that divided Benin and Yoruba for politics, OBA of Benin is a Yoruba king period. All OBAs in Yorubaland throw banter on who is superior but they know their history better than you

You keep on saying "do you know Benin history more than the king".. my question to you is, mention the Benin king that said he originated from yorubaland? Let's see your detailed evidence. You guys just come on nairaland to give unfounded stories and you think observers here are dummies to believe the rubbish you post here. By the way the word "yoruba" did not exist during that era, so what "yoruba speaking people are you talking about"? You can see that you are now saying rubbish.

Secondly, the omon' oba N' Edo of Benin Kingdom Ewuare (2) boldly stated in his inauguration speech that he believes Ekalederan also known as Oduduwa was the son of ogiso owodo, the last ogiso of the ogiso dynasty. So what are you arguing about again. You better go and listen to the full inauguration speech again. I assume you listed to the doctored copy of the speech and that is why you seem confused.

fregeneh:


Benin history revisionist are fraudsters. from ekelederan to izoduwa to imadoduwa..etc etc but from all this fraudulent names they can't name their newly inferiority induce invented festival after any of those previous fraudulent names but after Yoruba precious oduduwa,the Benin's are just convetously after the personality of great oduduwa of Yoruba's noting more noting less.

Stop deceiving yourself. What does Oduduwa mean in yoruba? It has no meaning whatsoever unless your fabricators starts adding prefix and suffix to the name before it begins to make any sense in Yoruba language. On the other hand, Oduduwa is a typical Benin name. Izoduwa decided to settle with the name 'Oduduwa" because even though his name was corrupted to Oduduwa, the name still made perfect sense to him because he knew the meaning in Benin dialect. That is why he kept "Oduduwa" as his title name.

Jagunlabiodua:


Lol the Benin king story is the story of almost all king in the south, it’s a trick story to consolidate kingship. In Yorubaland more than 10 Obas have similar stories Like Benin, it doesn’t impress Yorubas they know it’s a lie, Fake story

What king stories in the south are you referring to. Can you be a bit more specific. I'm sure the stories you are referring to are all connected to Benin Kingdom because we are your elders. Go straight to the point and be more explicit so we understand exactly what you are on about. Cheers!

samuk:


Now that the Oba of Benin have told the world that Oduduwa was a Benin prince, you can see how uninterested and deflated TAO11 and her Yoruba people have become on the Oduduwa Benin connection. They are now even calling the story a lie. TAO11 know the Yoruba can't argue history or myths with the Benins, they just don't have the historical authority to do so.

You can see how insulting TAO11 has become because the Oba of Benin have beaten them to their games. This is the point gregyboy should understand, the politics of history. Gregyboy still see history on a straight line, with time, he will develop a bird's eye view, 360 degrees and future views of history.

The Oba of Benin and his chiefs are smart people, Benin people are generally smart people otherwise they couldn't have controlled, ruled and influenced people with larger populations for over 500 years.

Whatever the the narrative on Oduduwa, Benin will always have the upper hand because Yoruba don't and cannot date it earlier than late 1800s, they will always rely on Benin historical dates on Oduduwa story.

If the Yoruba want to argue Oduduwa, historical or myths, they cannot do so earlier than late 1800s without referencing Benin. If they decide to argue against it and say the story is a fabrication, it will take nothing away from Benin already established history. Anyhow it is view, Benin will always be their elder, head or tail Benin wins any historical contest between Benin and Yoruba.

"The politics of history".. I love this phrase because you just summed everything up in that phrase. The benins have won the politics of history all thanks to Omon' Oba N'Edo Ewuare (2) on his inauguration speech. The Benins won't value the details of that inauguration speech now until 100's of years from now before they see the relevance of that speech. He killed the game by making that bold speech right in front of the Ooni.

I also noticed that Tao has been quite aggressive and unnecessarily abusive in recent times. Your guess is as good as mine as to why she has resulted to such tactics .. she/he is now feeling the pressure of defeat

samuk:


The Yoruba created and have been seriously working on their political history since late 1800s and the annexation of Benin history through Oduduwa is their target, there is nothing wrong if the Oba of Benin find a way to beat them to their game. Gregyboy is a young man full of energy and as he grows older he will understand the politics of history and the history of politics and know how to situate and present them without causing offence.

As established as European history there are myths, mythical figures, political histories and actual eyewitness historical accounts, historians always find a way of putting things in their proper perspectives.

Halloween and father Christmas are some of the myths and fairytales of Europe that are still being celebrated across the world. If the Oba of Benin decided to celebrate Oduduwa who he believes was a Benin prince, there is nothing wrong with it.

Samuk.. you and I reason alike. You just hit the nail on the head again. I agree with you completely. Please lecture him some more because he derails the thread most times with his assumptions. I have tried but I don't know if he ever listens. I know he's youngot and full of energy and I like that about him.

I have seen Davidnazee try to correct him as well but he's not paying attention to details. Lol

TAO11:
The pre-1907 EUrOpEaNs, dullard.

What is it about the pre-1897 EUrOpEaNs by the way?

Did they display a better attitude to your people??

What exactly is it about them?? Talk to me.

Can you cite us the earliest date in Benin history that Ewuare-1 (and many others) was referred to as an actual human being other than a myth?

If you can show us a date earlier than 1900, I will go on a self-imposed exile from Nairaland for 2-straight years.

PS: Your case is more ridiculous than you are making it seem. And this is because your history went on to claim that the Europeans met with Ewuare-1 (and others). Yet there is not one writing to show for his existence, despite the Europeans being lovers of writing.

Also, notice the relatively greater generosity of my requests to you.

(1) The EUrOpEaNs visited Yorubalands in the late 1400s before any EUrOpEaN would ever visit Benin.

(2) At least two EUrOpEaN maps of the West African region from the 1500s describe most of the western portion of today’s Nigeria-region and beyond by the phrase the “Ooni’s Kingdom” (translated).

(3) Eyewitness accounts of Oyo’s imperial domination of the present-day Togo, Ghana and then Dahomey region was published in the 1700s (Archibald Dalzel) and in the 1600s (Willem Bosman).

Despite these, inferiority complex has NO place with us to have given rise to the idea that we are great because EUrOpEaNs noticed us.

I pray that someday you may escape this hard/strong grip of inferiority complex. Amen!

Debunked!

Debunked! See above

What!? What kind of reasoning is this? Did Ewuare-2 replace you people’s brains with puff-puff.

EUrOpEaNs visited & documented about Yorubaland before Benin anyways. And how does that relate in anyway to the idea of subgroup blah-blah?

A huge damage has been done to the brain of the ordinary people of Benin.

Urgent Government intervention is needed now than ever.

And WHO made eYeWiTnesS hIsTorIcAl accounts the sole evidence of history?

Anyways, you fail again as always despite your inane request for eYeWiTnEsS .

Why do you always loose? You always lose because you’re on the side of falsehood.

Let's see the proof of the earliest account of Europeans visiting your yoruba land in 1400's.. even though the word yoruba didn't exist back then.
Please don't post your fabricated maps as proof because your maps have been debunked in the past. We need well documented proof of past events written by Europeans about Your ancestors in 1400's and not fabricated maps.

You haven't still told me Oduduwas title when he was ruling ile-ife.

You haven't shown me any bronze head of any oba that shows him having a yoruba tribal mark.

I'm waiting. Cheers!

gregyboy:


The was never the first ruler title, it has always been oba


The ogiso the benins mentioned to europeans in the 1600Ad were one of their mythical faiy tale stories


The benin tradition doesnt even belive in heaven they believed in the world that existed here on earth, they believed the oba who is a supereme God throne was on earth

They didnt believe in heaven which could have been result of contact with europeans over time for them to be having that thought

I believed with the europeans interaction over time during the ancient period made them to start associating A God to the heavens

Which birthed ogiso narrative

You need to understand the benin traditional belive system to get my point here

The ethnographer who took the history of ogiso narrative by benins could have even influenced the benin people on assumptions of a sky king...like Jesus


Without any further bothering


Just know there was never ogisos who really ruled bini, it is a bini myth you need to read bini ancient text writing by europeans to know this

The bini people started by migrating to their present location and they once lived in fragmented clan and each clan rose to be stronger with leaders protecting their clans, but they were so much dissatisfaction coming from the rulers the various benin clan, and man called eweka rose up from a particular clan and fought wars with the other clans defeated their leaders and formed an autonomous kingdom, after a while some clans wanted to succeed and they were attacked and defeated and there was a need to form a central government were the oba was supreme


Now oba eweka from my research would be the founder of benin kingdom and was the first oba

Ogiso were mythical talks because the benin religion does not believe in heaven they beleive on life at earth that is on land and and sea after death, the European contact was likely what made them consider life on air


Have you seen this bronze casting


The bronze shows my illustrations

The oba holdimg a leopard signifying is contol over the fofest (land) and the oba holding a fish signifying sea

There was nothing show an heavenly beign dominated the oba in heavens


If you really need a discussion buzz me up

I know I said I won't reply you again, but here is a food for thought for you greg. The ogiamen family whom where the administrators of igodomigodo after the reign of the ogisos also claim till today that the ogisos existed. This is an ancient family that has been around even before oranmiyan came to igodomigodo, so who are you to say that the ogisos did not exist. Our four-fathers passed down oral history mentioning each name of the previous ogisos, My grand father told me about the ogisos and his own fathers passed on the history to him aso well. The ogisos are very real and they were not made up by the Europeans. Who do you think introduced the Adah and eben, do you think they just fell from the sky?. It was the second ogiso during the ogiso dynasty that evented them and his name is Ogiso Ere. His name is written in history as the inventor and no one can erase it. This is all I have to say to you. Cheers!

samuk:


I can satisfactorily say at this junction that the job to expose you as fraud is complete.

Benin eyewitness written historical accounts started in the 1400s, whilst the Alaafin of Oyo received his first European visitor in 1826. 1826 was the year the Europeans first step foot into the hinterland of Yoruba and started documenting your history after documenting Benin history for 400 years.

You should consider yourself privilege that any Benin person would even come down from their 400 years high horse to start having chat with you because there is nothing really to debate between Benin and Yoruba.

You have now been told by the Oba of Benin that your almighty mythical Oduduwa was a Benin prince. Let see how a baby will argue history with his/her 400 years old ancestor.

To some mischievous and gullible Igbo around here, be guided. There are numerous communities across Igbo land that traces their roots to Benin, hence the reason we don't get too hard on you guys.

Benin remains the ancestors of southern and part of middle belt Nigeria. Benin history was written since 1400, Yoruba earliest date was 1826.

Benin don't discuss made up fairytales that started in late 1800s but written history dating back to the 1400s.

End of discussion, you can now go and look for your historical mates to play with.

Nice write up Samuk. I hope gregboy is reading this post.

samuk:


How can oba of Benin have Yoruba tribal marks when Benin is centuries older than any Yoruba kingdom. It should be the other way round. A son can only copy from his ancestors not an ancestor coming from the the grave to copy from his great grandson. Benin is too older than Yoruba to copy anything from them.

Benin empire controlled, ruled and influence most part of southern and middle belt Nigeria for over 500 years and 400 years of it was documented. It came to an end in 1897, baby kingdoms were born and created from it's ashes and remnants. These babies are now trying to turn history on it's head forgetting that Benin history was actually written and can't be changed. It's too late for any fabrications to be taken seriously by serious historians.

Yoruba is a corruption of Yarriba which the Hausas called the Oyo and some people of south western Nigeria in the 1800s. Yoruba like Igbo are relatively young names In the history of this place now called Nigeria.

Benin written history started in the 1400s while Yoruba eyewitness history started in 1826, a 400 years gab. What's there to debate with them in historical terms.

If the Oba of Benin says anything or hold any position, mythical or not, no any Yoruba Oba have the historical authority to contradict him, they all know it. On what historical leg are they going to stand on to challenge the Oba of Benin position.

There is nothing Benin copied from anyone else, it was others that copied from Benin over 500 years influence.

Hey Samuk, thanks for your contribution. You have said it all. I told them earlier that I don't argue unecessarily. I pass across my message and I move on. You are knowledgeable. Cheers Bro!

They should ask themselves why the terracotta heads or bronze heads of the oba doesn't show these yoruba tribal marks. It's all fallacy. Revisionist at work again. Lol