TAO11:
I am hoping that what you mean by “proof“ is NOT (1) a video documentary of his infancy at Ife, or (2) a picture of his birth moment at Ife, or (3) his original birth certificate (or any document from his time, bearing his name and place of birth).

If none of this is what you mean by “proof“, then I am happy to inform you that there is historical proof of his Ife roots, just as the same type of proof that satisfies your curiosity for the existence of the following individuals:

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

Should I now proceed to cite you the scholarly historical consensus of Oduduwa’s Ife roots as received from the Yoruba’s own traditional narrative?

A written document from 1800+ will do, thank you..

TAO11:
Where did I tell you that?

You’re super eager to have you dreams come true.

You were probably replying someone else’s comment.

Here is my comment again. Now see where you’re so off.

“The consensus of historical scholarship in the word today is that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.”

If you have proof of oduduwa coming from ife, kindly share it with us.

TAO11:
Yorubas marginalized Benin’s. Wonderful!

It’s becoming clearer where the distortions, hate, and bigotry is coming from.

Oh.. was this meant to be a secret. It's littered every where on the cyber space.

TAO11:
Lol. No, I didn’t say Ekaladerhan didn’t exist.

Rather, Ekaladerhan is not Oduduwa is what I had said. Big difference!

Is that my personal conclusion? No! That’s historians of precolonial Benin history talking.

Did they come to the conclusion because “there is no written document”? No!

In fact, their conclusion is based on the received Benin classical traditions which disallows the Izoduwa narrative.

When the Benin man is debunked he asks about Oduduwa. Lol.

I don’t do historically studies, historians do. I don’t pretend to have expertise in what I don’t.

The consensus of historical scholarship in the word today is that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

In other words, there is no proof of where oduduwa originated from. Which means that if he came from mecca it simply means all Yoruba royal stools are from mecca as well and not from Yoruba land. Case closed

samuk:


The Yorubas couldn't keep to the gentle man agreement. If the Benin throne was actually related to Ife, there wouldn't have been the need to pull out of the Western region.

There was obviously no strong connection between the two, and that's why it was easy to get separated. I belive the Oba made the best choice for his people because of marginalisation

Truthshots:


According to the records which I read, Oba Eweka 2 (the son of Oba Ovonramwen) was already trying to live the western region, he couldn't archive that in his life time but his son Oba Akenzua 2 took over from him and archived it.

The thing with the Yoruba is that they saw themselves as being the step children of britain, and they saw Nigeria as being a British product so they felt entitled to it and everybody else had no rights in their eyes.
Anyways, this thread is not about the Yoruba. This derailment has gone long enough.

You are right, the yorubas felt they were favoured and they made the best use of it. Benin suffered the brunt by the brits. Such is life

TAO11:
Because Oranmiyan’s mother-line was not Igodomigido, hence the same Oranmiyan was allowed to change status-quo — please make this make sense.

Anyways, historians have already debunked this as nonsense. Oduduwa is not your Ekealederhan historians concluded.

Well, he was according to your own traditional account.

But that’s obviously not historically accurate. It is a romanticization of the life of a great person, just as Oduduwa and Alexander the Great.

If I may ask, what status quo did Oranmiyan change. The oba ship title followed the blue print of the ogisos. Nothing in particular changed. Please enlighten me.

Note: Oranmiyan did not change the name Igodomigido to Benin if this is the status quo you are talking about.

TAO11:
Because Oranmiyan’s mother-line was not Igodomigido, hence the same Oranmiyan was allowed to change status-quo — please make this make sense.

Anyways, historians have already debunked this as nonsense. Oduduwa is not your Ekealederhan historians concluded.

Well, he was according to your own traditional account.

But that’s obviously not historically accurate. It is a romanticization of the life of a great person, just as Oduduwa and Alexander the Great.

The same way there's no written document to prove the Ekaledehan story is the same as you not being able to prove where oduduwa truly came from. If I may ask, from your own studies, where did oduduwa come from and is there any written document (no revionists) to back your claims up?

TAO11:
I was simply equipping you for the brainwashing from your brothers. You will see my point.

Why change if it’s still the same blood line? Lol.

Just as Ogiso Igodo didn’t truly sky-dive from heaven to Benin-City round-about (even though your people insist so); Oduduwa similarly didn’t literally descend from heaven.

These are basic romanticization of the details of great historical personages found everywhere in the world.

Alexander the Great, despite being a historical personage, is stongly held till date to have two horns and given birth to by one of the gods.

Show me the evidence of where Itsekiris call Igodomigido as Ubini prior to Oranmiyan.

Also, the change of name from Igodomigido to Ibini by Oranmiyan is according to your history. I didn’t come up with your history.


It doesn’t matter what you tRuLy BeLiEvE.

This is history not faith, and historians have debunked such equation as nonsense.

Accept the obvious information from the classical received tradition of Benin history. Yorubas won’t bully you if you do. You will only be bullied if you don’t. Lol.

Historical evidence please?

Or should I accept this because you only forge what is true. Lol.

Well.. the bloodline was a bit tainted because oranmiyans mother was probably an outcast. He didn't have an igodomigo mother despite his father coming from igodomigo. Both parents had to be from igodomigo and that is why they where known as kings of the sky

Ogiso igodo was never known to fall from the sky. He is called the king of the sky because he was perceived as a king blessed by the gods with godly attributes.

samuk:


Tribalism got the better of then Yoruba elites , the reason the Oba of Benin lead mid west out of the western region in 1963.

This makes perfect sense. This triggered the oba of Benin to create the Midwest

TAO11:
Trying hard to sound intelligent? LMAO.

Anyways, the past was passed down to us from successive generations who were eyewitness to it.

But without writing their history down don't you think they would have omitted little details or subconsciously mixed folklore to the history. That's the point he's trying to make and I agree

TAO11:
Exactly! Just as there is no account that the following supposed oba have anything to do with Benin kingdom.

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

The EuRoPeAnS tHat sTudY BeNiN hIsToRy fOuNd nO hIsToRiCaL connection LiNkInG bEnIN hIsToRy wItH any of the above-listed names iN tHe FiRsT 400 yEaRs (1400s - 1800s) oF EuRoPeAnS eYeWiTnEsS dOcUmEnTaTiOn oF BeNiN hIsToRy.

Are you aware of this? And what do you honestly concluded from this fact? LMAO!

Moreover, there are other evidence (apart from writing) which links the foregoing names to Benin kingdom.

These evidence are called multiple independence verbal corroboration which all say virtually the same thing.

Similarly, there are other evidence (hard evidence in fact) which establishes the subservience of Benin to Ife since the 1300s at least.

(1) https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798

(2) https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

LOL Tao.. this is a long list of renowned obas. It's hard to believe they never existed because there are multiple historic sources that talk about the likes of Oba ozolua the great. It's even written under Esan history and they have it detailed.

Truthshots:


I never claimed that the first Oba of Benin never existed. Actually, just by mathematical reasoning, you would prove that the first Oba of Benin existed. But that is where logics ends, anything else being told about the first Oba of Benin is just pure fiction.

I am not claiming that things which were not captured by history didn't exist. I am only informing you that the story which you are hearing is a myth !


You can look at past events like a black box in which something is happening but you can't access what is happening unless it is brought to you by a note left by people who were in that box.

I don't know how to make this clearer.
Being smart ain't easy.

I understand you perfectly

samuk:


The reason the Yoruba are always desperate to link Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife to Benin is because the documentation of Yoruba history started proper in the 1800s, 400 years late compared to Benin and to bridge this gap they find a way to link Ife to Benin, in modern times, after the lost of Benin empire, the Benin Palace also benefit from this arrangement because it puts the Oba of Benin above all Yoruba Obas.

The story goes like this, Oduduwa to Oranmiyan to first Oba of Benin to first Alaafin of Oyo and the Ooni is their chief priest then others. This is pure politics without historical evidence to back it up.

The Yoruba use Benin to shore up their history earlier than 1800s while the Oba of Benin retains seniority.

But I guess awolowo spoilt this plan when he elevated the ooni status to number one on the list.. Lol

TAO11:
Let me summarize your brothers’ brainwashing baptism (which you’re about to experience) to you:

(1) You must reject Ogiso — because if you don’t, the Yorubas would convince you with the truth along the lines that if obaship was always a Benin thing why then the need for a change of title.

(2) You must reject the name Igodomigido — because if you don’t, the Yorubas would convince with truth along the lines that if Benin wasn’t a foreign name later imposed by the Yorubas why the change of name.

(3) You must reject Oduduwa and Oranmiyan — because if you don’t, the Yorubas would make you realize that historians have debunked the idea that Ekalderhan is Oduduwa; and you will be left with the only truth that Oduduwa is not related to the Edos.

(4) You must reject anything that has to do with Ife — because if you don’t, you would forced to accept the fact and truth that Benin kingdom is a descendant kingdom from Ife (which is the classical received account originally collected from the royal court of Benin kingdom).

(5) You must reject the names of all Benin kings from Eweka I to Osemwende because people didn’t write them down; and as such the Benin royalty and citizens must all have agreed recently to forge these names because the original true names of the kings (which were passed on to them from successive generations) didn’t sound cute enough.

—————————-
In other words, you become stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.

In respect to your post, I have some observations

1) It's only logical for the Benin royal house to change title from ogiso to another title (such as oba) because the ogisos came from a uniquestion lineage known as "kings of the sky". The ogiso bloodline was revered and special. Now, a benin prince came back to ruse his people known as oranmiyan, but the Benin chiefs could not give him the revered title of ogiso because they figured his blood was tainted with a foreign blood because they feared his mother wasn't from igodomigodo despite them knowing his father was Ekaledehan (oduduwa). So it's only normal for them to name him with a different title as "oba".. which practically almost means the same thing as ogiso in Benin language.

2)when your supposed oduduwa came from the sky and landed in ile-Ife, he didn't change the name. He met it as ile-Ife and it remained as ile-Ife... so it makes no sense to think that oranmiyan had to change the name of igodomigodo to Ubini later changed to Benin by the portuguese. Besides Ubinui has always been the name ascribed to igodomigodo by the itsekiris since before oranmiyan stepped a foot in igodomigodo. Ile- ibinu was given by oranmiyan but it's completely different from Ubini. It was the itsekiris that told the Portuguese about Ubini and the Portuguese later corrupted it to Benin. So you can't ascribe the name "Benin" to oranmiyan because he's not the originator

3) I truly believe that Ekaledehan is the same person as oduduwa because it's only logical for the Benin chiefs to bring back their son of the soil to rule over them. It's impossible for a proud Benin tribe to bring a complete stranger to rule over them. I don't think you know how proud Benin people are when it comes to their royal stool. I know you won't agree with me but this is just common logic and facts.

Secondly, Ife was just an upcoming name at that time, why would the mighty igodomigodo go to Ife of all places to find a king to lead them instead of other nearby kingdoms. It doesn't just add up.

Truthshots:

My proof: ogiso, oduduwa, oranmiyan and co are not backed by any eyewitness written document.
(I come from a scientific background, so I see things rationally. The fact some people believe in a story doesn't translate to the truthfulness of the story. The story being backed by proof, is what makes it true)

If you are to put it this way, would you then suggest that if the Europeans didn't show up on the shores of Benin that equivocally means that the Benin empire never existed in the absence of no written documentation

samuk:


The official Benin historical version takes you through Pa Idu to the Ogisos but because nothing was written down then, most of us have started examining the history of Benin starting from what is known and working our ways backward to antiquity.

The European helped Benin history because from the 1400s when they first arrived Benin, they started documenting all aspects of our history, from the 1400s several Europeans visited Benin with some of them even staying for years, so Benin history from 1400s is very well established.

1400s backward before the Europeans arrived is in antiquity that are still being study.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan, the Europeans wouldn't have missed this aspect of Benin history, they would have written it down. For example, Benin annexation of Lagos was documented by a Dutch man who witnessed Benin presence and preeminence over Lagos in 1603.

When the Benin/Ife relationship surfaced in late 1800s, the Europeans who have been studying and writing Benin history for 400 years were the first to question the authenticity of such relationship because there was nothing of such prior to 1800s.

In trying to answer your question, we must first disprove latter day fallacy which Benin/Ife story is.

Benin/Ife relationship is nothing but political agreement between Benin and Yoruba after British conquest of the Benin empire.

Benin/Ife relationship is akin to how all Nigerians were forced together to become one, the reason the country went into civil war just 7 years after the British left.

Hmmm, you are making good points and I agree with you here. It's quite hard to imagine that no account of benin/Ife relationship was penned down by the Europeans for 400 years. That's a long time Bro, especially in the context that Ife was assumed to be a major Kingdom at that time. This raises a lot of questions as regards to the authenticity of benin/Ife connection.

Truthshots:

Ogiso is just another fairytale like oduduwa and oranmiyan. You are confusing stories with history.

You need historic backup to such stories though.. for people to believe this you need to provide proof. A lot of people believe in the ogisos, so it will be really good if there is evidence to this point you are making.

I understand that the likes of oduduwa and oranmiyan can be made up for political reasons.. but ogisos is at the heart of Benin Kingdom history. It will be difficult to shove this one off though.

Truthshots:

Ogiso is just another fairytale like oduduwa and oranmiyan. You are confusing stories with history.

Lool... wooooow

Truthshots:


That information is only available to God almighty. Because no eyewitness to the coronation of the first Oba of Benin left any notes (it is possible that the coronation took place thousands of years ago by the way). The only information available to mankind is the name of the first Oba of Benin who was recorded on paper by eyewitnesses.Though it seems weird to ask where the first king of a Kingdom came from. The best guess would be the kingdom itself.
But I know, Nigerians have a different logics from the rest of the world.

I asked the question because it is recorded that there was the era of the ogiso before the oba title came in.

TAO11:
Are you saying that Oghene of Uhe was the exact words used in the account of morning worship by Benin kings?? Make sure to answer this question.


Moreover, I was simply enlightening you that your so-called personal version is in contradiction with reality.

The Benin reality is the received traditions of Benin history as published by actual historians.

And it states that the “Oghene” (n’Uhe) is equivalent to the “Ooni” (of Ife).

Cheers.

Yes, it's actually Oghene” (n’Uhe)... but this tale is actually connected to the pre-historic Uhe located in (present day kogi) and not the present day ile-Ife. That is my point and I won't say anything more in respect to this.

samuk:


This perceived agreement only occurred in the 1800s and was purely political arrangement that wasn't based on history. There were no such agreements in the previous 400 years (1400s -1799).

I am ready to offer $10,000 US dollars to anyone that can show us where Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were written in Benin documented history before 1799.

Nicely said, but can I ask you one question. If Oranmiyan was made up, who was the first oba ofor Benin and where did he come from? I want to learn something new from you

Juliusmalema:



Whether Benin prince or yoruba prince, the point is that since both agreed to existence of single entity then u all are blood.

Yorubas and Edos are same people whether the prince is from Bini or Ife.

As far as both agreed to a prince existing them case closed.

If that's the case it means yoruba royal stools should be under the oba of benins stool. Therefore, the yorubas should stop claiming that the binis royalty originated from them. That is utter fallacy

TAO11:
Lol.

Summary of your comment:

Fezz: real history is better than folklore.

Also Fezz: [proceeds immediately to bombard me with folklore and folklore alone]

LMAO!

Ironicaly, historians of pre-colonial Benin concedes based on information from Benin court that the Binis’ “Oghene” is one and the same thing as the Ooni (of Ife).

Oghene of Uhe was the exact words used and not (Ooni of ife)... point of correction.

Truthshots:
The problem which history faces in Africa, and Nigeria to a greater extent, is politicization. People think their ethnic group stands to gain something by distorting history.
I don't see any reason why anybody in southern Nigeria should even compete with Benin. It is a no contest. Benin empire was one of the very few empires in Africa.
In the whole Nigeria, no Kingdom or empire compared to Benin in history length, military might, exposure to the outside world, architecture, technology, art...

I know this hurts the egos of some people who were under the illusion that the greatness of their history was a direct correlation of their abilities to make huge amounts of babies like factories produce cars.

You are absolutely right and I agree with your points. But truth be told, benin kingdom didn't act fast enough to unit its people after colonialization of Nigeria. People think the edo people are depopularized, but I don't really see it that way.

There was a major divide of edoid people after the British came into the country. The brits main agender was to take away power from the benin Kingdom and hence they broke the tribe down to the bearest minimum and also took away all other tribes that paid tributes to the benin Kingdom.

The only way forward now is for the highest authority in South south region to unit all tribes and ethnic groups to come together under one umbrella because the truth is that 85% of South south indigens come from one stock which is pa Idu.

I would suggest the oba of benin is in the best position to unit all tribes in edo, delta, bayesla, rivers etc. Once this is done the south south will never see themselves as a minority anymore.

All tribes and ethnic groups in South south have to do away with their pride and come together under a spiritual leader (oba of benin) in my opinion, and choose a particular language as the general language to be spoken in the region. This does not mean that old languages wont be practiced as well. Unity is the key to achieving greatness in South south, if not, these major tribes will tear the south south apart once the divide comes.

TAO11:
Lol.

Summary of your comment:

Fezz: Real history is better than folklore.

Also Fezz: Proceeds immediately to bombard me with folklore and folklore alone. Lol.

Actually it's all folklore, but my version is more plausible than yours. Common! we all know that the present oba of benin doesn't see the present ooni of ife in such high regards to bow down every morning to worship him as Oghene, it's quite ludicrous and unimaginable. Lol

If any of such practice ever happened, it was only directed towards the Oghene of pre-historic era in Uhe

Juliusmalema:




There is no historical appreciation between benin and Onitsha infact the whole Igboland but there exist facts of historical appreciation between benin and Ife...with clear evidences at sight.

Oba as title and names including communities.

Zik was quoted out of context and as such there is no link between benin and Onitsha but such can't be said if Benin and ice because binis as a whole are Yoruba people and vice versa.

Moreover there is no hypocrisy because yorubas are telling you guys who u are.

Why do you look at this story from only one angle (myopic). From the benin version, Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) the fugitive benin prince was made king in ile-ife. His son oranmiyan was sent to rule his ancestry land, which means that oranmiyan and his son eweka are still benin princes.

In addition it also means that all royal stools in Yoruba land are connected to benin lineage because the yoruba royalties claim Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) as their father.

If you want to be diplomatic about this, I suggest you just stop arguing about this topic because there is no conclusive answer to this mystery.

TAO11:
Like I already noted in that same comment, it’s not my intuition alone that makes the supposed parallel a superficial and coincidental one.

I had noted (and I quote here again) that “there are other better reasons why there is no parallel at all.”

Some of these “other better reasons” are that:
(1) There is no substantive evidence to conclude that the indigenous people of Onitsha have Bini ancestry; or that Onitsha was ruled by Benin or a Bini.

The most one finds is identical cultural artifacts (which are plausibly indicative of mere cultural borrowing). One also finds certain information to the effect that:

(A) The Igbo people of Onitsha used to live within or around Benin city, but that they later drifted eastward from their initial/host community due to some turmoil.

This account by itself obviously proves nothing vis-a-vis a Bini ancestry of the Onitshas.

(B) The 1970s autobiography of Dr. Nnamdi Azikwe admits a royal Bini ancestry for the people of Onitsha.

This is non-conclusive (and suspiciously suggestive of his personal vainglory) for the very fact that this detail is contradicted by an historical essay compiled by the same author some forty years earlier.

(2) Even if we pretend (for the sake of argument) that the Igbo people of Onitsha have Bini ancestry (a claim for which there is zero substantive evidence), the Onitshas could not possibly have adopted the name “Ooni-‘risha” (on the assumption that “Onitsha” = “Ooni-‘risha” as you thought). They wouldn’t dare because even their alleged ancestors (the Binis of old) wouldn’t.

This becomes clearer on considering the fact that the present-day evolved Yoruba word “Ooni” is a cognate with the Bini word “Oghene” (which is the precise word used by the Binis of old in reference to the Ife monarch).

Just as the word “Ooni” signifies “Lord,” the Bini word “Oghene” (as used by the Binis of old for the monarch of Ife) similarly signifies “Great Lord”.

To the Binis of old, the Ife monarch is the great ancestral deity whose face you dare not behold let alone take on his title.

These foregoing reasons, I believe, explain why these two expressions appear to match, but the apparent matching is in fact due to mere coincidence.

In other words, these two expressions must be in relation to different things and as such have different significances.


I should add, as a side note here, that the closeness in sound (and even in meaning too) of two expressions or words (each from a different language) does not lead to the conclusion that one of these is necessarily from the other.

Consider the following pair of words from two unrelated languages, viz. English and Yoruba. It is interesting to note that not only do the corresponding words in a pair sound alike, they also have the same meanings.

[me] English: ‘me’ | [èmi] Yoruba: ‘me’

[yawn] English: ‘yawn’ | [yán] Yoruba: ‘yawn’

[ruin] English: ‘ruin’ | [rūn] Yoruba: ‘ruin’

[iron] English: ‘iron’ | [irin] Yoruba: ‘iron’

[in] English: ‘in’ | [inú] Yoruba: ‘in’

And so forth.

On the basis of these, shall we then conclude that one of the Yorubas or the English people actually descended from the other? Obviously not.

These are known as ‘coincidences’ in linguistics, and you will certainly find one or more of such instances in any two languages you scrutinize.

In sum then, ‘sound’ (or even ‘sound’ and ‘meaning’) isn’t a deciding factor of any ancestral connection as is the proven case here with “Ooni-‘risha” and “Onitsha”.

Cheers!

It seems you are vast in history but it amazes me how you haven't figured out the difference between uhe and ile-ife. You probaby need to read in between the lines when studying history. Secondly, you also need to decipher the difference between folklore and real history.

In regards to oghene in relation to the Ooni of ife I think you have gotten it all wrong and you have mixed up the time line of two different histories. Let me break it down for you below so you don't mix it up in future discuss.

Uhe, also known as ife in pre-historic days is totally different from the present day ile-ife. Oghene is linked to pre-historic Uhe and not the present day ile-ife. Oghene is the god that saved this people from perishing in the flood. Pa idu also known by lukumi tribe as the pre-historic oduduwa(originator of igodomigodo people) was known as the representative of oghene on earth.

He was the chief priest that United all the various clans together during the menacing flood that occurred during that era. The various clans revered him as a "god" because he saved them from the flood and they built an alter to honour him.

Uhe was located around present day niger-benue confluence. The various clans present at that time are lukumi tribe (yorubas), Idu's children (igodomigodo) and Ugbo clan(present day Igbo in ondo state). As soon as Pa idu died, his children which comprises of Igodomigodo descendants (Akka, efa and emehi) migrated to the present day igodomigodo (bendel state).

Lukumi clan (yorubas) also migrated later on and moved to the present day ile-ife. Various clans migrated from old Uhe to their present locations after the flood subsided and they went in search of better land.

During the early days of the oba dynasty in benin kingdom, the oba and his entourage used to journey once a year to the alter in old Uhe to pay their respect to the shrine of Oghene in old Uhe to honour him, but this practise stopped since pre-colonial days.

This is why it was stated by historians that oba of Benin prays to Oghene every morning once the sun rises. This practice had nothing to do with present day ile-ife or the Ooni of ife, rather it's directed towards pre-historic Uhe which is located around niger-benue confluence.

So please stop connecting Oghene to Ooni of ife because they are two different people. Pa Idu (oduduwa) was known as Oghene because he was his representative on earth.

TAO11:


If this your stupidity is true, it then goes to prove that the Yorubas are braver, stronger, and mightier than your Ijaw and Benin ancestors combined to have sent them packing and occupied their supposed ancestral land up till today to the extent that there is no trace of your ancestors' languages as indigenous spoken languages in this their supposed ancestral land.

Nonsense ... they will leave their own to rot in despair and then proceed to claiming another man's.

Lol.. go and do some more research and be honest with your findings. The Binis and esan soldiers own eko and their footprints are everywhere in lagos. Names such as oshodi, yaba, idumota,... (all idumus and idi's) in lagos state are all Bini and esan names. So stop using words like there's no trace of edo's existence in lagos because it's a blatant lie.
Obviously the Yorubas ended up taking over lagos because eko is surrounded by yoruba tribes from all angles, besides it was when the british and slave trade started that the binis let go because they were not really into the slave trade business. So the British had more of yorubas working under them to sell their fellow brothers and sisters as slaves. It just shows that the bini (edo) have more class than the Yorubas.

TAO11:


No you argued against my points.

And my points which you argued against has never changed from the following:

*Lagos is owned by the Aworis.

*The Binis came a century later as terrorists to disrupt the Aworis' peaceful settlement in Lagos.

*But the Bini terrorists were later sacked (by King Ologun-Kutere) till date.

So, I should be asking you what you've been arguing about since you now apparently agree with my above-listed points which has never changed at any point in time.

When I read your comments I laugh because it shows you are full of hate, you are tribalistic and also always feel you are smart with words.
So when Oduduwa (Oranmiyan as well) was in ile-Ife and started his war campaigns, conquering smaller units around ile-ife you didn't call him such names as "terrorist".. but when the bini went on a conquest to eko and won their battles you now call them "terrorists". Please if you are really as smart as you sound then kindly use the same yard stick to judge rightly at all times. You don't have to be bias all the time and sound too tribalistic. People will listen to you more if you are actually less bias with your comments.

TAO11:



First, I don't see how all your story here contradicts the clear words of your Oba Ewuare II in the video that:

The First Oba of Benin is from Ife.

Before you assume too far that you're talking to a novice, I am aware of the history that before the Oba dynasty in Benin, what was there was the Ogiso dynasty of igodomigodo. And that's precisely my point which Oba Ewaure II apparently agrees with in the video

And the Oba dynasty coincided with the coming of Oranmiyan from Ile-Ife, prior to which there was nothing like the word Oba as a title for royalty in igodomigodo.

In the video, Oba Ewaure II is heard saying "first". "First" means "first". The first Oba in Benin, Oba Ewaurae II said, was the Yoruba man from Ife.

Before the intervention of the Yorubas, you had Ogiso never Oba.


A part of your statement which interests me is where you wrote:

"The banished child went to Ile-Ife and became the first Ooni of Ife ... He was named Oduduwa".

Hello Bini boy, please wake up and smell the coffee, stop copying and pasting imaginations from amateur historians and internet e-warriors who recreate imaginary history instead of documenting factual history perhaps because of their low self-esteem and tribal bigotry.

I will advise that you instead always consult the classical and earliest sources by the leading experts in a field of inquiry instead of amateurs and wishful thinkers.

There is a maxim in the study of historical accounts that the earlier and closer an account is to the event date and time, the more accurate it would be. For these two reasons, I will make reference to the world-leading expert in the study of Bini history. This expert is an indigenous expert, he is a Bini himself, and not only that, he is the earliest, most prolific, and most prominent of all Bini historians. His name is Chief J. U. Egharevba.

Regarding the case of the only son of the last Ogiso (i.e. Ogiso Owodo) whose name is Ekaladerhan. Chief J. U. Egharevba wrote in J. U. Egharevba, A Short History of Benin 1968 [This is an English edition of the earlier publication in Edo, published in 1934]


The first Ogiso was Igodo who established a dynasty of kings, some thirty-one in all. This dynasty came to an end when its last ruler, Ogiso Owodo, was banished as a result of popular hostility against his regime which was marked by misrule and cruelty. His only heir, Ekaladerhan, who would have succeeded him had earlier been exiled to Ughoton; and although every attempt was made to persuade him to return after his father's banishment, Ekaladerhan refused to leave Ughoton where he eventually died.

Ekaladerhan obviously did not go to Ife according to the earliest Edo source I have cited above, and Ekaladerhan is not one and the same person as Oduduwa. Instead, Oduduwa is an entirely separate person, a Yoruba ruler at Ile-Ife whom the Edos contacted for help. Hear from the horse's mouth below:

The last of the Ogiso kings, Owodo, was banished for misrule. Evian who was appointed as an administrator attempted to perpetuate his lineage by apportioning his son, Ogiamen, as his successor. The people refused and instead appealed to the Oni of Ife, Odudua, to send his sons. It was in this circumstance that Oranmiyan was sent.

[J. U. Egharevba 1968:6]


The foregoing are the histories of the Ife-Benin connection known to the Edos from the earliest times. However, popular tribalistic stories like the one you've copied and pasted above which is not found in any early Bini source found its way into the narration of the Binis many years later.

In fact, scholars nowadays have traced the origin of the Ekaladerhan is Oduduwa Theory, and have found it to be originating from 1978-9.

Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs have noted in "Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations" that the story emerged for the first time ever during the coronation of Omo 'N Oba Erediauwa as part of his coronation speech during the 1978-9 coronation.

In this work, Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs also cited the indigenous Eboreime 1985 to corroborate their position.

The Ekaladerhan is Oduduwa Theory is certainly and evidently alien to the history of the Edos. It contradicts, in clear terms, the earliest written attestation of Bini's most prominent historian, as well as the earlier writings of the Europeans like P. Amaury Talbot, The Peoples of Southern Nigeria, London 1926.


You will never find this Ekaladerhan is Oduduwa Theory in any writing (Bini or non-Bini) before 1978. Never!


This later account which emerged for the first time in 1978 is an obvious attempt by the then new Oba and his allies to help the modern Bini person heave some sigh of relief from the "embarrassment" they feel as a result of their own very widespread tradition which tells them that a man from another country became their first Oba and that the Binis' present polity owes too much to this man and his country Ile-Ife.

__________________________________________________

Why do yorubas always believe that the world recolves around them. It's very sad and unhealthy to be honest.
You mentioned in the early parts of your write up that the word "OBA" is derived from the yoruba language. Give me one reason why the word "OBA" can't have 2 sources of origin. It is a known fact that the meaning of oba in yoruba language is totally different from what it means in bini language. In bini it is defined as 'Shinning light" while in yoruba it means something else. So why do you think or insinuate that Iweka spoke yoruba when he named the title of his throne "OBA" ? Whereas the real fact is he actually had a Bini meaning for it.
Just the same way you will say owomika was the first word he said when he started talking which means something in yoruba, but you actually forgot that owomika also means "I have hit the target" in bini language, but the name was later renamed to Iweka by the bini people.
You should understand that both the yoruba and edo people derived their language from the same source which is the kwa group. This means that their words have the same pronunciations but obviously have different meanings due to influence of early migrations. etc.

TAO11:


I will reply you in details later. Currently in the middle of a busy session.

However, I will say this: What I provided you with is from your own earliest and most prominent source Chief Jacob U. Egharevba.

Also, I cited non-Yoruba experts in the field to show you precisely when and how the above fabrication of equating Ekaladerhan and Oduduwa emerged. And I showed you how the fabricated narration contradicts the earliest accounts held by the Binis from the earliest times through 1934.

So, I am aware that the fabrication is on Wikipedia with its source being Benin e-warriors. Wikipedia will never suffice as proof IF the earliest material on the subject by the experts in the field contradict the Wikipedia information.

And as I have proven, your Wikipedia account contradicts in explicit terms the earliest Bini accounts. So, you need to provide expert materials earlier than 1934 which is in agreement with your Wikipedia account. And if you cant provide expert materials earlier than Egharevba's 1934 work , then provide at least an expert material earlier than 1978-9 (the date of the fabrication as I have shown) which agrees with your Wikipedia material.

Regarding the part where you mentioned that the culture doesn't concern me (or something to that effect ), the history here is not entirely a Bini history ut is one rhat intersects with Ife (Yoruba) on one hand, and Bini on the other hand. So, I will not allow any low-esteemed Bini e-warrior impose fabrication and distortuon on my cultural history especially when there are corpus of extant materials negating that as I have demonstrated.

So, the earlier you embrace facts, the earlier you embrace tranquility and sanity and less of delusion and frustration.

In summary, our Oduduwa is not one and the same person as your Ekaladerhan as attested to by the earliest authoritative sources.

Also, your epistle doesn't show anywhere that the Edos had the title "Oba" for royalty prior to Oranmiyan. Rather, you appeared to agree with me that what the Edos use for royalty prior to Oranmiyan was Ogiso. Thus, you agreed with my position and Oba Ewuare II's position.

Peace be with you!

modified:

It's laughable that you wrote: I am very certain that your source is fake.

That's a claim which you can't just leave to hang. You need to substantiate it (i.e. your claim that my sources are fake or lies; that is, I'm making stuffs up) with evidence, proof, or reason.

I have cited the earliest and most respected sources

Read below and learn a thing or two.

No Benin oba was buried in Ile-Ife – Esogban of Benin, Edebiri

By Simon Ebegbulem BENIN—FRESH tension is brewing between the Yoruba and the Benin Traditional Council, as the Esogban of Benin Kingdom, Chief David Edebiri, described as absolute falsehood and provocative, the claim by the Oore of Mobaland, Oba James Adedapo Popoola, that until 1914, Benin Obas were buried in IIe-Ife.
He also described as untenable, the claim by Oba Popoola that the Oba of Benin is number four in the cadre of Yoruba kings. The Esogban was reacting to an interview granted by Oba Popoola to a national newspaper (not Vanguard). •Chief David Edebiri, the Esogban of Benin Kingdom Speaking to Vanguard in Benin City, Chief Edebiri, who is also the Odionwere of Benin Kingdom, said the position of Oba Popoola was misleading and must not be taken seriously. According to him: “It is absolute falsehood to say that Benin Obas were taken to Ile- Ife for burial. It never happened in our history. The precursor of this present dynasty, Oranmiyan, who came from Ife as requested by the Benin people, went back alive when he felt that he could not cope with the politics of Benin. He went back to Ife. Maybe, he was the one who died there and was buried and they now claim that Benin Obas were buried in Ife. I think that is where the notion came from. The Oba that came after Oraminyan, Eweka I, died and was buried here according to Benin traditional rites, within the palace environment. No Bini man can claim to know where the kings are buried. The two successive obas, the children of Eweka 1, both of them ruled within a space of two years, they died and they were buried here.
So, I pity the Kabiyesi because in the first place, according to him, he is now 17 years on the throne. Maybe, he wants relevance and to be able to do that, he made his wild claims. But what surprises me is, why drag Benin into their problems? If he wanted relevance in his area he should not bring Benin into it. These two Obas in quick succession ruled in Benin and were not taken to Ife. “One can only imagine what it entailed at that time to carry a corpse from Benin to Ife for burial. What was the method of preservation, what was the method of transportation of the remains being carried to Ife and that was done each time an Oba here joined his ancestors? It is not true at all, absolutely untrue. What I want to advise these people is, in the history of a people, you have history and you have fable and you have folklore. It is possible this is one of their fables which has no sanctity of historical facts. “So, to bring what I am saying vividly, the most prominent Benin king that everybody knows about is Ewuare I. I will tell you what the doyen of Benin history, “Ewuare died after a long reign and was buried at Esi, near Udo” Udo is in Ovia West Local Government Area, “as commanded before his death.” “This was the oba who commanded that if he died because he was sick, they should not bury him in Benin City, they should take him to Esi, his own mother’s village, to bury. Up-till this time, we are talking, the burial place is preserved, and every Oba who wants to ascend the throne in Benin must go there to perform certain ceremonies. The ascension of Oba Ewuare II was not exempted from this. So, that tells you that there is no iota of truth in the issue. It is a mere figment of their imagination. It is not true. Many of the Yoruba kings today are products of the royal family of Benin. Their lines were begun by Benin people from here but we have never said they should bring their corpses to us. “In Benin, it is a taboo to bring the corpse of your son to you. If it is true, as claimed by the Ooni of Ife who is the father of Oranmiyan which we do not dispute, and Oranmiyan did not stay here in Benin till his death, he went back to Ife, why should he wait for his grand children’s corpse to be brought to him each time any of them passesd on here? “There is no sense in it that you just sit down somewhere in Ife waiting for the corpses of your grandchildren to be brought to you. What do you do with it? So you can see that there is no sense in that” he stated. On the claim that the Oba of Benin was the fourth in the cadre of Yoruba kings, Chief Edebiri said: “This is an oba I am hearing of for the first time and I am sure many people who read that story, would have come across that news for the first time. All the cock and bull stories that he told in that interview that he is the announcer of the passage of Ooni of Ife, well that suits him, if his duty is to announce the passage of another king. “He cannot claim to be number four in Yoruba land because that is in direct conflict with what the Alake of Egbaland was saying a few months ago. The political connection we had with them, we successfully severed the connection in 1963 when we had the plebiscite that created Midwest Region. So, we have nothing to do with their classification, they can go on with whatever they think they are. The Oba of Benin cannot be classified with any of them. Maybe it is not generally known that some of the most progressive kingdoms in the Yorubaland have kings who have direct connection with the royal family of Benin. Maybe they do not even know.”

Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/02/no-benin-oba-buried-lle-ife-esogban-benin-edebiri/