[quote author=TAO11 post=100669138]Let me get you straight: Who said photographs of Orun-Oba-Ado excavation are published if they even exist at all? You Binis make unintelligent requests just to hide your shame.

I could decide stoop low to your level and ask you to show me a sketch of the Benin oba burial witnessed by the EUrOpEaNs.

I may even stoop lower to your base level and remark that if there was no such sketch, then no Benin oba’s burial was witnessed.

Sincerely no one cares if there were eye witnesses in the obas burial or not. The truth remains that you have no proof that the obas head is buried in ile-ife, so my question is why do you still dwell on such controversial topics. Move on if you have no proofs. It's only logical

TAO11:
History is not necessarily what you love to hear, okay. So it’s about what your received account says — why do you think I should distort it to make you feel good?

Foreign land you say? No! Benin is the foreign land for the Benin obas. Ife is their ancestral paternal home.

Wrong! The account was collected from Binis themselves.

Let’s talk about this when you’re able to grasp the difference between beheading a person; and exhuming the skull of a buried body.

Well, one of your obas is reported to have been beheaded in battle. So, stop typing feel good Benin fairytales.

Also, dead people don’t do things willingly or unwillingly. I thought I should remark on that. LMAO!

The revisions of your modern obas or chiefs doesn’t change what has been received from their predecessors. Their predecessors confirmed this tradition. They probably didn’t have much to be ashamed about unlike these modern ones.

Wrong! It was your own people who announced such traditions to historians, chroniclers. Stop blaming others for your daddies’ (and mommies’) truths. Rather, embrace your truth unashamedly.

Cheers!

The Benin king that was beheaded was done by his esan brother which is exceptional and understandable. There was a battle and that is what led to the killing of the king. No outsider from yoruba land can ever do such a thing to a benin oba without their land getting burnt down to the ground by the benin kingdom.

As far as I am concerned, you have no proof whatsoever that any oba of benins skull was exhumed. The archaeological excavation turned out to be a total failure and nothing was found, so I advise you to die this topic because it's all fairytales.

Just the same way the yorubas claim oduduwa fell from the sky or migrated from mecca is the same way the benins believe he was their exiled prince and moved to ile-ife to became the ancestors of yoruba obas. This is also a dead end, so let it go

Everyone has rights to believe their own history. There is nothing you will say that will make the benins believe you that oduduwa is from ile-ife, because it is a known fact by majority that he is a bonified prince of the Benin Kingdom also known as "Ekelederan". The oba of benin has testified to this fact during his coronation and the ooni of ife was seated right at the front role and he never objected the history when the oba of benin reminded the whole world of his roots, which means ooni agrees with the oba of Benin.

I truly believe you are on pay roll to debunk Benin history. Your research is not done purely because you are a historian. You are being paid to distort history and you are good at what you do, but you picked the wrong side to battle against because the benins are natural historians. Have some conscience and do what is right for once. Say no to your pay masters. Behave like a true historian and dish out true historical events just as they happened without falsifications. Your good deeds will pay off eventually

TAO11:
(1) There is zero evidence that any of of the following so-called obas have anything to do with Benin kingdom:

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Henmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende

If there was any evidence, we would have found it in the European archives of Benin history from 1400s to 1800s.

No! I’m simply using your dumb fallacy (argumentum ex-silentio) against you as always.

(2) And who said the buried skulls of the late Benin kings would magically become irremovable, or even non-bio-degradable after they’ve been buried.? Lol!

You’re a great fraud as expected, because I have once educated you that the excavation yielded an important discovery which proved the burial tradition.

For the purpose of other readers, please note that the excavation revealed the relevant evidence required to prove that the tradition actually took place.

The evidence revealed is the find of a number of circular burial pits at the site of Orun-Oba-Ado in the course of the archaeological excavation.

But that’s not the whole point, the crucial information lies in the total number of circular burial pits discovered at the site.

Amazingly, the site revealed eleven (11) burial pits. This number is precisely accurate as it matches the number of buried skulls implied from the Benin tradition itself.

Cc: Christistruth00, Fezz

You keep on saying "relevant evidence" can you kindly share with us proof of such evidence regarding the archeological excavation of the burial site of orun-oba-ado. We want to see the pits you are referring to. I'm sure pictures must have been taken if such excavations was done. If you can't share this relevant proof on this thread I suggest you forget about this topic and move on.

Like I said earlier, all Benin high chiefs in the royal court have denied such practice involving beheading of the great obas in the past. It's derogatory and this is the master plan of the yorubas to distort Benin history. Unfortunately for the yorubas, the benins can see right through the conspiracy and are being debunked rightfully.

TAO11:
LMAO! You’re right though /s. Robert Sydney Smith is a well known Yoruba revisionist. /s

I would love ❤️ to be shown this golden source of yours which eXpOsEs the Yorubas’s WeLl pLanNeD aGeNdA.

But don’t you think a WeLl pLaNnEd aGeNdA would actually deny having any such relationship with Benin instead of saying bodies go to Benin? Just saying. Lol.

What kind of WeLl pLaNnEd aGeNdA is this? But I would wait on your evidence of this WeLl pLaNnEd aGeNdA sha.

Lol.

It would make more sense for you to say the body of obas are buried in ile-Ife after they pass on, but rather you are sticking to the plot that the obas head is decapitated. Please where ls the honor in that. The Benin chiefs will never agree to such arrangements, the beheading of the oba after death and the head buried in a foreign land is just so funny. I laugh in spanish.

This story was created to devalue the authority of the Benin kings, it's derogatory and only the yorubas can think of such fairytale stories because their sole purpose is to devalue the achievements of Benin Kingdom. In history, the only time a king is beheaded is during the act of war, the victorious king finds honor in beheading the defeated king as a sign of authority, but for you to say the descendants of the mighty oba dinasty who was never defeated in battle would willingly decide to be beheaded after death is just pure fairytales. No man in his right senses would believe such fairytales.

As long as no oba or chief can come out to verify this claim, I'm sorry but no one apart from the gullible yorubas can ever believe such fairytales. High chiefs in the Benin court have spoken against such reports and that is all that matters to the benins. The yorubas tried their best to create a shrine-like tomb depicting where the obas heads are buried but that has been debunked a long time ago. That was a very weak attempt to distort history.

The yorubas went over the board in distorting history the way they did. Too much desperation is evident in the way your father's cooked up stories. It's really sad.

TAO11:
Christistruth00 has answered you.

To recap again: It is only their bodies (after the head has been removed) that is taken to Benin. ~ Robert S. Smith, “The Lagos Consulate 1851 — 1861”, University of California Press, 1979, p. 6.

In the case of the Benin-Lagos connection, the head is for father’s land (Lagos), while the body is for the mother’s land (Benin).


Just as in the case of4 the Ife-Benin connection, the head is for the father’s land (Ife), while the body is for the mother’s land (Benin).

Cheers!

1979 is quite recent, the yorubas already had well planned agenda by this time. Revisionist at work here. If you have an earlier account it will be welcomed.

Christistruth00:









Answer. :for the same reason every third Oba of Benin was buried in Ile Ife.

I'm glad you agree with me that the first oba of Lagos is from Benin Kingdom and not Awori, that is the only reason why the Kings where allowed to be buried in Benin.

Secondly, kindly tell us the name of this book and who is the author?. Thank you

TAO11:
You’re a grand fraud. You and I know you’re a fraud. As such I won’t stop rubbing your fraudulent scheme all over your ugly face.
————————————


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno

(Point 1) Oba Akiolu’s statement says: “... the first oba of Lagos is a male descendant of Oba of Benin ...”

(Point 2) The official recognition of who is the “first oba” always swings — in Lagos accounts — between Ashipa (father) and Ado (son).

Just as a similar recognition (of first Benin oba) always swings — in Benin accounts — between Oranmiyan (father) and Eweka (son).

(Point 3) Lagos accounts are unmistakably clear that Ashipa is an Awori noble (of Ife royal ancestry) from Isheri.

(Point 4) Oba Akiolu’s reference here to the “first Oba” is therefore by necessity in reference to Ado — Ashipa’s son.

(Point 5) Oba Akiolu’s precise words, viz. “male descendant of Oba of Benin” appears to have been carefully chosen.

He avoided saying “paternal descendant” or “patrilineal descendant” which would have meant something else.

(Point 6) Oba Akiolu’s emphasis is thus clearly on the child-descendant himself (i.e. a male descendant, i.e. a descended son).

(Point 6) Oba Akiolu’s word does NOT relate in any guise to the agent(s) through whom the child was descended — in which case the wording would have been:

“Paternal descendant,” or “patrilineal descendant”.

(Point 7) Oba Akiolu’s statement here is therefore in complete agreement with the native accounts of Lagos history.

(Point 8 ) And the traditional account of Lagos history states that:

Ashipa (the progenitor of the Lagos monarchy and father of Ado) is a Yoruba man.

(Point 9) And that Ashipa only gave birth to his son, Ado through a Benin woman. The son was born and raised in his mother’s land — Benin.

(Point 10) Lastly, Oba Akiolu later declared emphatically in this same interview that Lagos does NOT belong to Benin kingdom. See times-stamp 5:44 of the full and untampered video embedded below.

Cheers!

I'm going to use your own trick against you. If oba ado's father was Awori, why where the obas of Lagos buried in Benin Kingdom after they passed on. This tradition was stopped after the British took over eko from the Benin Kingdom.

gregyboy:



Nothing like pa idu, and am working harder than you think to connect benin history

I have made many success, just by going through my profile you will see and attest to it,
Currently researching on the origin of benin

And i wouldn't be happy someone coming with pa idu fairy-tales that would breed more ground for mythism


And again there is was no pa idu, that gave birth to the various edoid sub group

Auchi towns for example came in early 16Ad after the idah war, and not an imaginary pa idu, that begot such towns, the urhobos resulted from benin mass migration into original urhobos areas and influenced it

Broaden your scope of knowledge. If I may ask, who gave birth to the first ogiso? In Benin history it is well known that the ogisos represented god on earth. The ogisos where known to have a devine calling but they were humans. I have just told you where the lineage of the ogisos came from, go and do more research.

I agree with you that the urhobos of today's, the kukurukus, the esans etc all migrated in difficult times during that era but they migrated to locations that they knew was already established by their ancestral fathers. Their ancestors (efa, emehi, ihobo) where all brothers to Akka (present day benin city)

samuk:


Nice one, just to add, Benin is too vast to be viewed from a narrow prism. Every tribes that claimed Benin ancestry and left Benin centuries ago left with different strands/piece of Benin history that will sound strange to those at the heart of the empire today. I have read historical accounts of pre colonial Benin that I find difficult to reconcile with the Benin history I know and if not that these accounts were written by eyewitness to the events, it would have be difficult to believe them.

The study of Benin history can't be narrowed down to Benin city and Edo state alone. There are still numerous pre colonial writings of Benin history in various European languages still yet to be translated. No one person can claim to know Benin history more than others and my advice is whenever we come across new information coming from a Benin compatriot, we shouldn't be too quick to attack.

We all should stick to the area of Benin history we know, there is hardly anyone around hear that can claim to be expert in Benin history, we are all still scratching the surface.

Benin compatriot telling Benin history best to their ability are not enemies, if you don't agree, you can simply just ignore it, at the end of the day, it's left for them to support their claims if they wish. We all just listen to the video of Oba of Lagos which was less than a minute, yet someone still find the need to misinterpret what was clearly said and there were Yorubas that supported the lies whilst others said nothing. You will hardly find any Yoruba calling out one of their own no matter the amount of lies being told.

The Yoruba have a mission and deploying all means and especially lies to steal Benin history and yet some of us are looking for fault amongst their compatriots, not a very wise move.

Why do the Igbo call Benin Idu?
Why do the Urhobos call Benin Aka and others that interacted with Benin have several more names that will sound strange to the modern Benin person. All these names carry their own history that should be study, we must all approach Benin history with broad minds while we remain vigilant to Yoruba lies that started in late 1800s.

Samuk, I have studied your write ups for a while now and I must admit you are one of the smartest Benin supporters in this forum. You pay attention and you study people a lot before you respond. That is an act of wisdom so keep it up.

You nailed my points. Benin city is just a fraction of the great Benin empire. It is only wise for Benin historians to know about the history of the Benin empire and all the clans within the empire and don't just focus on Edo alone.

The Yorubas best the benins in arguments not because their history is authentic but because they have studied their personal weaknesses, they have studied their opponents history and also they depend a lot onicer team work.

The benins history is so pure and genuine, but you need to have a deeper knowledge of the Benin empire as a whole and also study the Yoruba history as well because their history is flawed and very shallow. You can easily pick up errors from their history.

For example, Akka as you mentioned was the first son of pa Idu and the edo speaking tribe originated from akka and that is why till today the Urhobos call the Edo speaking people Akka. The Urhobos descended from Ihobo and they are all brothers. Other descendants of Pa Idu are efa and emehi, and their descendants are the esans, afemai etc. They all lived together as one family before they spread across the edo/delta region.

So can you see why it's good to study the pre-historic era of other clans such as the Urhobos etc because they will fill up the missing links of your history. It is true that the likes of the esans and Urhobos migrated to their present locations during internal wars or other disputes in Benin kingdom but you should realise that they migrated to those lands already inhabited by their ancestors that they were family with (efa, emehi, Ihobo)etc

The Yorubas are taking advantage of loopholes. For example, do you know that ubini was not derived from ile-ibinu as the yorubas usually say. Ubini has always been known as another name for igodomigo since the era of the ogisos. Ubini means "place of inexhaustible resources". Oranmiyan could not speak Edo language and that is why he mispronounced ile- ubini for ile-ibinu But the yorubas have hammered on that error and tried to use it to their advantage.

TAO11:
First of all, the request to him from the interviewer was NOT “Tell us about the first Oba of Lagos”. No, that wasn’t the request.

Had that being the request, of course he should have touched on both Ado’s father-side (Yoruba) and his mother-side (Benin).

However, the interviewer specifically requested him to talk about the relationship between Benin kingdom and Lagos.

In the light of the request put to him, I am still lost why you expected his reply to be in relation to the Eko/Awori relationship rather than the Eko/Benin relationship.

Could you please explain why such was the reply you were expecting from him with regard to the specific request put to him?

Even at that, NO where did he say, as you’ve put it here, that “tHe fIrSt oBa oF lAgOs iS fRoM bEnIn”.

Again, the interviewer’s request was: “Tell us about the relationship between the Bini and the Eko people”
~ Timestamp 4:55 of the full & untampered video below.

And his reply was that king Ado is a descended son from a certain Benin king; and that a salute gesture to the Benin king is always re-enacted at Enuwa during coronations.

My comment in relation to this video is to disillusion folks from the false propaganda of claiming that his reply was outside the limits of the Lagos account.

No it is not. Please point out the specific time-stamps where you think otherwise.

The Lagos account states categorically that Ashipa (i.e. Ado’s father) is an Awori-Yoruba noble from Isheri-Olofin; and that Ado’s mother is Benin.

I should add that the name Enuwa also resonates with another square by the same name at Isheri-Olofin where every Olofin of Isheri-Olofin is coronated. Same applies at Ife to the area where the palace is located.

To wrap it all up, Oba Akiolu noted in this interview that Lagos does NOT belong to Benin kingdom.
~ Timestamp 5:45 of the full & untampered video below.

He understands how easily the complex and intricate historical relationship may be hijacked & misinterpreted by some folks suffering from the minority complex.

In what more way should he have debunked the false idea of a patrilineal descent from Benin if not the note that Lagos does not belong to Benin kingdom?

(Point 1) Yes, the Aworis settled in Lagos first — perhaps countless centuries actually. Do you dispute this? Lol.

(Point 2) Could you please point out the so-called “[my] previous posts” where I said Benins named a certain land as Eko? Lol.

Wake up man, Benin didn’t name any land (not even a plot) as Eko. And I never claimed that they did — at least not in recent year(s).

The earliest known documented account of the origin of the name Eko (for Lagos island) states clearly that it was named by the Yorubas — not Benins. ~ D’Avezac (1845: p.26).

Also, the area have been named Eko before any non-Yoruba group immigrated near the area in search of better life. ~ Alan C. Burns (1929: p.44).

The idea that Benin named Lagos island as Eko is a big fat myth made-up and popularized by Binis in the latter part of the 1900s.

Well, the Benins didn’t name any part of Lagos as Eko per historical documentation.

The name Eko for the island predates any of the non-Yoruba immigrant groups — Aja, Benin, or Ijaw. This is the earliest documented information prior to recent redactions from Benin writers.

The actual reality appears (in the light of all the early information cited above) to have been as follows:

After the Binis had come to encounter the name Eko in Lagos where they eventually set up their camp, the word Eko thus slowly flowed into the Benin lexicon and eventually acquired a new meaning, viz. camp among Binis — especially the Binis back at home.

This may be corroborated with the fact that an older word actually exist for camp in the language of the Binis — that is, Ago [or perhaps Oxogbo].

Cheers!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno

OBA OF BENIN HEAD OF THE BENIN EMPIRE OWNS WESTERN, SOUTHERN AND EASTERN MODERN DAY NIGERIA
- Oba Akiolu of Lagos


The dust has finally settled after years of controversies and heated arguments who the real owners of present day Lagos are, the whole of Western Nigeria and the East of the Niger down to the Nigerian south Atlantic Coast.

The Oba of Lagos, His Royal Highness, Oba Rilwan Akiolu, has finally told the world via a historical narrative and background the real owners of Nigeria's economic capital city of Lagos and parts of neigbouring Benin Republic.

Lagos, he said, belongs to the Great Benin Kingdom and has never been part of Yoruba land.

This was contained in a statement issued and signed by the Lagos Monarch which was released from his palace.

The statement reads:

“Coming from the palace, with what I was told by my late paternal grandmother who is a descendant of Oba Ovonramwen Nogbaisi and also reading from factual Historical books, let me share this Knowledge with you all on Eko/Lagos.

“Modern day Lagos was founded by Prince Ado, the son of the Oba of Benin, Prince Ado was the first Oba of Lagos, the son of the Bini King, Prince Ado, named the town Eko until the Portuguese explorer Ruy de Sequeira changed the Maritime town to Lagos, which at that time from 1942 was Portuguese expedition center down the African Coast.


“It was a major centre of the slave trade until 1851. Lagos was annexed by Britain via the Lagos treaty of cession in 1861, ending the consular period and starting the British Colonial Period. The remainder of modern-day Nigeria was seized in 1886 when the Colony and Protectorate of Nigeria were established in 1914 Lagos was declared its capital due to the struggle of the Bini King.

“Lagos experienced growth prior to the British Colonial rule and even more rapid growth during the Colonial rule throughout the 1960s, 70s, continued through the 80s and 90s till date. Thanks to the Awori’s, Bini’s, Yoruba’s, migrants across the nation and the world at large, as no particular group of people can take the glory alone.

“Lagos is made up of Lagoons and creeks. The Lagos lagoon, Lagos Harbour, five cone creeks, Ebute-Metta creeks, Porto-Novo creeks, New canal, Badagry creeks, Kuramo waters and Lighthouse creeks.

“The Awori’s and Bini’s are known to be the first settlers of the Eko land. The Awori’s are speakers of a distinct dialect close to that of the Yoruba language with a rich Bini mixture. Traditionally, Awori’s were found in Ile-Ife, they were known to be the Bini’s who followed their self-exiled Prince, the first son of the Ogiso (now called Oba) of the Benin Kingdom, whose step-mother was after his head.

“The exiled Benin Prince Izoduwa known to the Yorubas as Ooduwa (Oduduwa) was made the ruler of the Ife people due to his powers and followers from the Great Benin-Kingdom.

“Izoduwa (Ooduwa) was made the first King of Ile-Ife in 1230 AD. His followers from his father’s Kingdom in Benin are the today’s Awori people who settled in Eko now called Lagos.


“In 1300, the King of Benin-Empire heard from one of his traders who was a settler in Eko on how the Bini’s were treated by the Awori’s who lived in their area. Upon hearing this, the King of Benin commanded the assembling of a war expedition, led by his son, Prince Ado, which headed the settlement of the Awori’s and demanded an explanation.

“On arriving Eko, Prince Ado and his Army were more than received. The Aworis asked the Bini Prince to stay and become their leader. Ado agreed on the condition that they surrender their sovereignty to the Oba of Benin, to which the people agreed. Hearing this, the King of Benin gave his permission for Prince Ado and the expedition to remain in Eko.

“The Oba of Benin sent some of his chiefs including the Eletu, Odibo, Obanikoro and others to assist his son, Oba Ado in the running of Eko.

“From the crowning of Prince Ado as the first Oba of Lagos (then called Eko), Lagos served as a major center for slave trade from which the Aworis, the Oba of Benin and his son the Oba of Lagos and all the children/descendants who took over as his successors for over four centuries supported the trade.

“The Oba of Benin was the head of the Benin Empire which is the present-day Western, Southern and Eastern modern day Nigeria. The King never obliged anyone to speak the Bini language as he believed everyone was entitled to their own choice of language.

“The name Eko was given to it by the first king of Lagos, Oba Ado, the young and vibrant Prince from Benin. Eko was the land now known as Lagos Island, where the king palace was built.

“The palace is called Idugaran meaning “palace built on pepper farm” Oba Ado and the warriors from Benin together with the early Bini’s settlers in Eko and the Awori people settled in the southern part of Eko called “Isale Eko”. “Isale literally means bottom “. Must have been used to indicate downtown (as in downtown Lagos)

“Until the coming in of the Benin’s 1300AD, Lagos geographical boundary was Lagos mainland, Lagos Island, the seat of the Oba of Lagos then consisted of a pepper farm and fishing post. No one was living there.

“About 1450 AD some Yorubas who hailed from Isheri in Ogun-state and Ekiti were allowed by the King to settle in Eko during a war, they came in a very large numbers thereby surpassing the numbers of the Awori’s and Bini’s. (Hence Yorubas claim to own Eko due to their numbers).

“Oba Ado fell in love with a beautiful woman whose father was Awori and mother a daughter to one of the chiefs; they had two sons and also a daughter Erelu Kuti, who begot Ologun Kutere who later became King.”

http://www.weeklypostng.co.uk/2017/05/oba-of-benin-head-of-benin-empire-owns.html?m=1

gregyboy:



Which one be pa idu, who b this guy, what tribe are you?

And told you about this pa idu you speak of

I have observed you for a while and to be honest I don't see you as a smart guy. Your rivals are attacking you left, right and centre and all you observed on this thread is to attack me. You are funny. Let me give you words of advise here, it's left for you to heed to my advise or not. It's better for you to go and study the foundational history of other kingdoms under the benin empire such as the urohbos, esans etc. This might shed more light on the missing links that the benins need to have a upper hand against their rivals. Your knowledge on benin history is too narrow and the yorubas are taking advantage of your narrow knowledge.

There is one thing you should understand, the yorubas are hell bent on destroying the benin Kingdom history, they don't mind telling all the lies in this world to accomplish that goal. They are playing dirty and they are quite determined to succeed.

I'm sure you have noticed that its not just the ile-ifes that are debunking the benin history. Everyone of the yoruba tribes are working together to obliterate the benin history out of the history books, but all I see on nairaland is the benins (edo speakers) trying to fight this media war all by themselves. My advise to you is to go and meet your afemai brothers, the esans etc... come together, broaden your knowledge, connect all the missing dots with facts and hit the yorubas hard.

The yorubas have studied benin history to a very large extent and their sole aim to debunk and discredit benin history so that when Nigeria finally divides they will claim the heritage of the benin Kingdom. So you better wise up and step up your game.

Go and do your research on the founding fathers of igodomigodo and you will come across pa idu. Don't attack me next time because I'm not the enemy. Wise up

[quote author=TAO11 post=100643511]

Wake up man, Benin didn’t name any land (not even a plot) as Eko. And I never claimed that they did — at least not in recent year(s).

The earliest known documented account of the origin of the name Eko (for Lagos island) states clearly that it was named by the Yorubas — not Benins. ~ D’Avezac (1845: p.23).


Please stop cracking me up over here. I am laughing real hard over here. It is quite obvious that you are on pay roll to try and debunk anything concerning Benin heritage. You are so desperate to remove Benin history from the history books and you are obviously been paid by a royal entity to do this. Anyway that is by the side. One thing I want you to know is that the yorubas can surpass the Benins in sectors such as physics, chemistry blah blah due to the fact that the brits favoured them to terms of education right from the early years of colonisation compared to the benins.

One error you yorubas have made that you might live to regret is trying to shove the benins away from their history. Benin and history are like 5 & 6.. you can't tell a Benin man his history because it's a part of his life style. Even a 5 year old in education state will tell you history from A to Z.

Please don't say this again that the aworis named the land as Eko. It only shows your desperation to get rid of the benins and it does not speak well of you. Stay blessed.

Truthshots2:


Don't waste your time reading or replying that yoruba troll whom is apparently interpreting a very clear video as if the language spoken in the video is foreign. That is the highest form of delusion I have ever witnessed.
That person is a waste, that person is so illogical and delusional that you would be better off talking to a mentally ill person which is most likely the case.
The yorubas are cheering that fool because the fool is saying things which please their ears and they shut down their reasoning faculties in order to accept those good sounding lies without intellectual scrutini.
The Biafrans are allies with the Yoruba supremacists they both believe they can share Benin Kingdom within themselves. These guys are jokers.

Your last paragraph is the complete truth of what is going on. I mentioned this exact assertion some few weeks ago on this blog and I made it clear that all the benins in all south south states should step up and get ready to defend their heritage with all they have.

Osagyefo98:


There is nothing like Edo / Delta...stop dreaming.

There are three major ethnic groups in Delta.. Igbos, Urhobos and Ijaws others include Itshekiri, Isoko...

Where did u see Edo inside the listing?

Stop land grabbing in your dream...


Edo/binis are offshoot of Yorubas like Itshekiris are.

This statement of yoursome is very funny .. It is obvious you don't know your history. Delta is divided into 3 major groups which are urobho, ijaw and itsekiri. The igbos are settlers there and not true indigens. The benins, esans, kukurukus, urobho, Itshekiris and ijaw all sprang from the same roots known as pa idu. In other words they are all blood brothers. During migration they spread out and created other indigenous settlements in edo/delta state of today.

The igbos migrated into the edo/delta lands through trading and in search of better arable land to farm and the benins welcomed them as visitors but the igbos being whom they always are took that kind gesture and misused it by trying to claim the land they were invited into.

The difference between the Benin Kingdom and the Yorubas is that Benin descendants are all connected by blood, from the benins to the esans, down to the ekweres are all blood connected, while the Yorubas are connected by forcing their language and culture on their subjects. Most people in Yorubas land today were dumped on Yoruba soil and most of them came from sierra leon, Gabon etc. The only thing that brought them together is the language known as Yoruba.

Osagyefo98:


There is nothing like Edo / Delta...stop dreaming.

There are three major ethnic groups in Delta.. Igbos, Urhobos and Ijaws others include Itshekiri, Isoko...

Where did u see Edo inside the listing?

Stop land grabbing in your dream...


Edo/binis are offshoot of Yorubas like Itshekiris are.

This statement of yoursome is very funny .. It is obvious you don't know your history. Delta is divided into 3 major groups which are urobho, ijaw and itsekiri. The igbos are settlers there and not true indigens. The benins, esans, kukurukus, urobho, Itshekiris and ijaw all sprang from the same roots known as pa idu. In other words they are all blood brothers. During migration they spread out and created other indigenous settlements in edo/delta state of today.

The igbos migrated into the edo/delta lands through trading and in search of better arable land to farm and the benins welcomed them as visitors but the igbos being whom they always are took that kind gesture and misused it by trying to claim the land they were invited into.

The difference between the Benin Kingdom and the Yorubas is that Benin descendants are all connected by blood, from the benins to the esans, down to the ekweres are all blood connected, while the Yorubas are connected by forcing their language and culture on their subjects. Most people in Yorubas land today were dumped on Yoruba soil and most of them came from seria leon, Gabon etc. The only thing that brought them together is the language known as Yoruba.

TAO11:
Oh he later attached the same video about which he has been flogged to near-death before.

Now, let the flogging roll in point by point as usual:

(Point 1) Oba Akiolu’s statement says: “... the first oba of Lagos is a male descendant of Oba of Benin ...”

(Point 2) The official recognition of who is the “first oba” always swings — in Lagos accounts — between Ashipa (father) and Ado (son).

Just as a similar recognition (of first Benin oba) always swings — in Benin accounts — between Oranmiyan (father) and Eweka (son).

(Point 3) Lagos accounts are unmistakably clear that Ashipa is an Awori noble (of Ife royal ancestry) from Isheri.

(Point 4) Oba Akiolu’s reference here to the “first Oba” is therefore by necessity in reference to Ado — Ashipa’s son.

(Point 5) Oba Akiolu’s precise words, viz. “male descendant of the Oba of Benin” appears to have been carefully chosen.

He avoided saying “paternal descendant” or “patrilineal descendant” which would have meant something else.

(Point 6) Oba Akiolu’s emphasis is thus clearly on the child-descendant himself (i.e. a male descendant, i.e. a descended son).

(Point 6) Oba Akiolu’s word does NOT relate in any guise to the agent(s) through whom the child was descended — in which case the wording would have been:

“Paternal descendant,” or “patrilineal descendant”.

(Point 7) Oba Akiolu’s statement here is therefore in complete agreement with the native accounts of Lagos history.

(Point 8 ) And the traditional account of Lagos history states that:

Ashipa (the progenitor of the Lagos monarchy and father of Ado) is a Yoruba man.

(Point 9) And that Ashipa only gave birth to his son, Ado through a Benin woman. The son was born and raised in his mother’s land — Benin.

(Point 10) Lastly, Oba Akiolu later declared emphatically in this same interview that Lagos does NOT belong to Benin kingdom. See times-stamp 5:44 of the full and untampered video embedded below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno

Cc: seunmsg

I think you are just trying to be mischievous in your assertions. Oba Akiolu clearly stated in that clip that the first oba of Lagos was from Benin. This is not difficult to understand, neither is it rocket science. Oba Akiolu would have clearly stated it that the first oba of Lagos was an Awori if that was actually the case, but instead, he stated clearly that the first oba of Lagos came from Benin. The message is quite clear and shouldn't be debated.

Secondly, in your previous posts, you always claim that the Awori people settled in Lagos first before the benins came into the land and named it eko. My question to you is this, what was the name the Aworis named the land as first settlers before the Benin came and named the land as Eko? I assume that people cannot just gather together and live in a nameless land, so kindly tell us the pre-existing name given by the Aworis before the benins named the land as Eko.

Juliusmalema:



You Bini boys are funny.

but you will drop one stupid image here, and call it map of Bini empire.

You will drop image of a traditional ruler holding a fan like material and call it Bini.


Do u guys reason before talking.

Bini kingdom we all know is an affiliate of Yorubaland and nothing, I mean absolutely nothing will ever change that.

on streets of Bini, an average Bini man knows he is yoruba and they don't argue it.

only on nairaland do such argument exist.

btw what is the meaning of Oba in your Yorubaland?

There is something I have noticed about the yorubas on nairaland, you all wanthe to be involved in the glory that Benin Kingdom attained for itself in the past, honestly speaking this is not a good reputation from you guys.

All the wars that Benin Kingdom won and all the places they conquered, the yorubas now want to claim all that glory by attaching themselves to Benin by saying the Oba is from ife. But little do you know that the Oba of Benin is way much smarter than you all combined.

As long as the Oba of Benin announced publicly that Oduduwa is a Benin prince, it only means that all yoruba royal stools originated from Benin Kingdom. In other words, no Benin man or (Edo people) believe that they are connected to yoruba land because the obas word is final.

So stop wasting your time on nairaland trying to convince people on how supreme the yorubas are because the benins would always see themselves as having a more supreme history in comparison to the yorubas. It's all written down in their history books and you can't change the truth.

TAO11:
Tell me the Yoruba kingdom who refused to fight back when attacked (for some reasons) with violence.

You mean the same Yorubas whom you all accused of marginalizing your naturally weak daddies.

If this have any truth to it, then it is because the Yorubas are the only group brave enough to mock others for whatever reason they please.

Cc: Fezz

It's clearly stated here. The brits had already made up their mind to depose the oba of Benin. The oba of Benin and his chiefs already saw this coming and thus the reason for agitation. Philip and his men made matters worse by wanting to break the laws governing the igwe festival. Agbosere took matters into his own hands and the end was inevitable. Sad story though because if the expedition didn't occur Benin Kingdom would have still had complete grip on the whole of South south region till date.

TAO11:
Just as the Operation Python Dance was not a war between Nigeria Army and IPOB; the punitive expedition on Benin is, in the same manner, not a war between two contenders. Even the name settles it.

One party was simply at the receiving end of a punishment — running and hiding; while the other was on the offensive — oppressing the helpless party.

Be it as it may, but the fact still remains the benins gave it a fight and even though it didn't end well for them, at least they can say to themselves that they stood up to fight the brits. Not even the hausas or fulanis in nupe etc could stand up to the brits. The best they did was mount barricades and once the brits broke through the barricades the hausas fled.

[quote author=TAO11 post=100284308] It was a punishment on Benin due to Ologboshere’s oversabi — hence its name the punitive expedition.

This is funny.. I agree with you on this one. He obviously did oversabi in this context. I'm sure oba ovaranmwen had a plan in settling it out with the brits peacefully. Like some will say "destiny will always play out its part". It was meant to be.

Truthshots:
I just wonder when the British would finally pay a price for burning down Benin city.
Just imagine the level of tourism that we would be witnessing in Benin city if it were not burnt down.
Benin bronze are a marvel, but I think Benin architecture was an even greater marvel.

That is the consequence of war. The Victor does as he pleases and takes the spoils of war. But I think the brits over stepped though by toiling with Benin history. Obviously Benin kingdom depended a lot on their art work because they used it as a means to store their history.

TAO11:


Only one of such deaths was witnessed? LMAO!

Anyways, the burial tradition of Benin kings with respect to Ife says the following:

(1) Not all Benin kings received such treatment — It was said to have being done only to the 3rd reign Benin kings.

(2) Such 3rd reign Benin king is said to be buried first in Benin for some period of time before the rites.

(3) The whole of the exhumed corpse (of such 3rd reign Benin king) is NOT to depart for Ife — only the skull.

Don’t misrepresent the tradition just to promote your timid fraudulent agenda.

Cheers!

Cc: Fezz

LOL... but why only the 3rd reign of Benin kings? It sounds folklorist to me, don't you think? If there's no evidence or an eye witness account that such rituals occord then I think it's onlyour right for such information to be flushed out of history completely.

samuk:


Oba of Benin being buried in Ife is another lie. European actually witness the death of Benin oba and the events surrounding one of such deaths was recorded and no mention of Ife.

Great! So there was a European eye witness during the burial of a benin king and no ritual involving incapacitation of the head occured. In other words, he was buried normally. This is all I wanted to know. Thanks

TAO11:
Okay, I guess now the paper isn’t fabricated anymore. Only God knows how many back and forth jumping I will force you to do today.

Having said that, if you will have the courage to read that paper, then quote out where he was summoned.

If you have the courage to read that paper, then quote out where coronation came up as a topic.

If you have the courage to read that paper, then quote out where plots of land came up as the purpose of his visit.

On the contrary, he was clearly said to be the head of all the kings including the Alaafin of Oyo and your Oba.

On the contrary, he was clearly said to be passing a judgment (while wearing his crown) over whether an already self-imposed king has a right to such office.

The key-word there is the right — which he denied ever giving to the self-imposed king.

The British authorities did not concern themselves over shrines and spiritual matters if that helps — perhaps they did in Benin kingdom. Lol.


As it is obvious, Awolowo wasn’t born in 1903 when the Ooni was already the lead king from time immemorial as evidenced by that paper.

Did I expect a Benin man to be capable of honesty? No I didn’t. I’m only writing these for others, not you per se.

Lol.. sorry to burst your burble, I'm not a Benin man. I'm only making comments from a neutral point of view

TAO11:
Your reliance on the word “probably” to make your point makes you sound like: ‘I have zero proof of what I’m talking about, but I am pressed to write something.’ Lol.

In essence, you seek to refute certainty with ‘probably’. Return back here whenever you have certainty (backed with proof) over what you wish to defend.

In other words, anyone could come up with any claim whatsoever and then hide under the word “probably”, yet insisting to gullible like-minds that he has a valid claim.

For example, one could claim Benin probably never had a king until Ovaranmwen’s time because all the writings which seem to imply otherwise are “probably” fabrications by Europeans who have always had an agenda to take over Africa.

Notice how anything is fair if common sense is thrown out of a discussion. Consistency is key, lad. Binis must urgently appreciate the concept of consistency.

Having said that, the Ooni of Ife was invited to Lagos to adjudicate if a certain self-imposed king was rightfully entitled to such high office.

And that paper published in 1903 (before aWoLoWo’s birth) by the Oxford University Press clearly informs every sane and consistent mind of the Ooni’s capacity as the ever-leading monarch of the Yoruba and Benin kings.

Having said that, consider the two important points below:

(1) For over 400 years that the Europeans wrote down the history of the Benins, these names (i.e. Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende) never came up once in connection with the Benin Kingdom.

(2) For over 400 years that the Europeans wrote down the history of the Benins, the word "Onitsha" never came up once in connection with the Benin Kingdom.

(3) Unlike these two points above, there are other more concrete evidence than writings and verbal accounts (i.e. evidence from archaeology) which connects Benin kingdom back to Ife since at least 700 years ago. See links below:

(I) https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

(II) https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798

I can see you are hell bent on talking about this 400 years gap... well, kindly answer this

Come to think of it, ithe is said that the oba of benins heads are buried in ife, does it mean in the 400 years existence of Europeans staying in Benin Kingdom, they where never told by the benin people even for once that such rituals takes place each time an oba passes on. In other words the Europeans never heard about such an important event ever taking place for 400 years. This begs for questioning or don't you think so?

samuk:


You are solidly on point. Any further debate is a waste of time. The European did Benin a great favour by leaving us 400 years written eyewitness historical accounts which aid us in disproving any modern day forgery, fallacies and fabrications that are based on politics and not history. Benin are probably the only people that can detect these frauds due to these earlier documents, others are not so lucky.

When Ooni and other traditional rulers visited London in the 1950s to discuss the matter of independence, he was reported by British press as the spiritual head of some 3 million Yoruba people, he wasn't reported as the king. There is great difference between a king of a people and the chief priest or spiritual head of the people.

You are right, it was when Awolowo became the premier of western region he consolidated both the position of the spiritual head and most senior western Nigeria king into one and the Ooni was the beneficiary. That was not the only confusion or abuse of power Awolowo did, he also created problems in Warri by elevating the Olu of Itsekiri to Olu of the entire Warri amongst several others of abuse of his power.

The Oba of Benin and his other Delta people saw the handwriting on the wall and pulled all strings to get out of the western region as soon it was possible, only three years after independence. Mid Western people remains the only people in Nigeria that were able to archive this fit.

Now that it appears that some sort of restructuring of Nigeria is inevitable, we must be wearing and on our guard against those our neighbours that are drawing their future Oduduwa or Biafra maps to include Edo and Delta communities.

Edo and Delta have no relationship with either the west or the east, everyone must stay in their region.

Come to think of it, in respect to the oba of benins heads being buried in ife, does it mean in the 400 years existence of Europeans staying in Benin Kingdom, they where never told by the benin people even for once that such rituals takes place each time an oba passes on. In other words the Europeans never heard ofrom such anot important event for 400 years. This begs for questioning because its obvious the benins never had such a sacred relationship with the Yorubas. I wonder what TAO thinks of this, because such important events should never be left out in writing if it truly happened.

Concerning restructuring of the Midwest, I outlined my view on the best way to solve this issue to unit the south south region as one entity, and best person to handle such a fit is the oba of Benin, because the south south will be ripped apart by the South East and South West if care is not taken when the divide eventually comes. I wrote this in one of my earlier comments.

TAO11:
You keep editing in new details into your comment. Lol.

All Yoruba kings (and Benin kings) are spiritual entities or demi-deities — Ikeji Õsa as we call them.

In other words, they wield both political as well as spiritual authority over their subjects.

In fact, the aspect of the Ooni’s authority which was specifically detailed in that paper is his political authority.

That is, his authority to confer political right (i.e. right to kingship) on other Yoruba kings. He is the head-king hands down.

I ask again, is there any reason why you’re dead-scared to read the papers I attached and see this for yourself?

Or are you so engrossed in your dreams that you’re not capable of perceiving reality?

TAO.. the ooni was summoned to lagos as regards to coronation and kingship matters. He's a spiritual leader and he was in the best position to testify on which kings should wear beaded crowns. That is more of a spiritual leader and not a political leader. If he was summoned in respect to identifying which king has so and so plots of land, then I would say he is a political leader.

On the other hand, Awolowo was the person that elevated the Ooni status from being the spiritual head of Yoruba kings to also becoming the political overall head. Only Awolowo knows why he made that decision.

calcal:
A referendum in Igboland for secession is a guarantee for secession.

Akeredolu is a thief, just tell us the truth that the Yoruba cannot survive without Igboman OIL.

Akeredolu be a man, tell your Yoruba people that the OIL in Igboland is the one feeding us in Oduduwaland. and that is why we are quiet even though Fulani is killing us, raping our children, mother and sisters, we are okay with it to keep the OIL.

Which oil are you referring to, hope it's not south south oil.. lol
Maintain your Lane and stick to the small oil reserves of imo and abia. South south oil is beyond your reach.

TAO11:
Consider the attachments below, and riddle me how aWoLoWo was doing eLeVaTiOn wonders even before he himself was born. LMAO!

Reference:
The Editor, “Native Crowns,” Journal of the Royal African Society, Vol. 2, No. 7 (Apr., 1903), pp. 312-314.

I'm sorry to say, but this doesn't add up. For over 400 years that the Europeans wrote down the history of the benins, the word "ife" never came up once in connection with the Benin Kingdom. Why did this document come up in 1903 after the colonial system was already taking shape. This document was probably fabricated for political reason during the colonial era.

TAO11:
Consider the attachments belo, and riddle aWoLoWo was doing eLeVaTiOn wonders even before he himself was born. LMAO!

Reference:
The Editor, “Native Crowns,” Journal of the Royal African Society, Vol. 2, No. 7 (Apr., 1903), pp. 312-314.

The ooni was a spiritual leader to the yoruba kings. The poltical plot had already began at this time to connect the bini King to the Yorubas. When awolowo came on stage, he solidified the position of the ooni as the leader and displaced the alaafin of oyo.

TAO11:
He was able to make changes because his mother was from a different line.

That is the absurd statement that you have to make sense of; or denounce it.

Saying he didn’t do it very easily is actually begging the question and entangling yourself even further.

It is not what you say that matters. How many times must I remind you of this?

It is the received Benin tradition that matters, and it agrees with me that Oranmiyan changed the name from Igodomigido to Benin.

Please convince me to ignore the received tradition and focus on you instead.

Also, provide me the evidence of when Itsekiri changed the name from Igodomigodo to Benin.

Wait, do you even listen to yourself? Didn’t Portuguese visit Benin for the first time in the late 1400s?

Wasn’t the name already changed by then if your received tradition anything to go by.

Igodomigodo was know as Ubini until the Portuguese arrived in 1400+ and corrupted the name to Benin.

TAO11:
Change of name from Igodomigodo to Benin.

Change of title from Ogiso to Oba.

All according to your own history, not according to me.

According to you, he had the authority to make all these changes (and more) because his mother-line was not Igodomigodo.

His mother-line must be really powerful. Otherwise, make it make sense please.

—————-
A Gentle Reminder:
Oduduwa is not your Ekeladerhan. Historians have concluded and debunked your people’s fraud.

You are making it sound as if it was easy for him to make such changes on the get go.. don't forget that neither oranminyan nor eweka were allowed to rule from inside Benin because the ogiamiens gave him a tough time. It took decades before the Oba-ship lineage could change status quo... and like I stated earlier, it was not oranmiyan that changed the name of Igodomigodo to Benin. The itsekiris are responsible for this when they told the Portuguese about ubini.