₦airaland Forum

GeneralDae:
All have sinned does not mean all have committed the act of sin. It means all inherited the consequences or state of sin, since all were in the loins of their ancestors or ancestor Adam when they/he sinned.

It simply means the actions of our ancestors affect us.

if the adamic sin still affects us then jesus's dieing was a waste don't ya think??

Jman24:
This question is giving some people serious hard time to answer

lol he'll say something delusional soon

Ihedinobi3:
Let me say again: I have the right to believe anything I wish to believe just as you yourself do too. I won't believe something just because you said it. If you don't like that, I'm not going to feel bad just because you don't. I will believe what the Bible says because I trust the Bible. I don't need your permission to do so.

the bible accepted and encouraged slavery, so your trust for the bible will make you accept it as well??

Dtruthspeaker:
Only if you do not have Anyone including God to Accuse you of Having Committed An Offence!

so if no one accuses me of wrongdoing I'll go to heaven right??

GeneralDae:
Well God is love as seen in Jesus. Jesus showed what love is by laying down his life for his friends and his nation and by a great extension the world. He laid down his life so his gospel can prevail.

Hellfire is gnashing of teeth and regret in the afterlife by those who cannot partake in the kingdom of God .

Every other thing you wrote about God threatening you to accept him or go to Hellfire are from your own imaginations. Hell is more like a state of corruption or death which you enter into naturally when you remain in sin.

no, that's wrong
your bible says if I fail to accept Christ as my lord and savior I'll go to hell wether or not I've been a good person on Earth.

secondly god created hell himself to send people who don't agree with him to.

Ihedinobi3:
Please, try to avoid putting words in my mouth. As courteous as I want to be in order to have a decent conversation with you, I do take exception to false accusations among other bad behavior in conversation. As I always say, you don't have to believe anything I say, but you certainly shouldn't ascribe things to me that I didn't say.

I made clear before and in my most recent post what I was equating to what. If you disagree with my comparison, then point out why you do. That is all you need to do.

I have explained this question as clearly as I know how to. If something is still unclear to you in my answers, I will gladly try again. But I can't repeat myself forever. It won't do you or me any good. All I have said is that the Lake of Fire is exactly what you are asking for when you insist that God leave you to your own devices. The issue with that demand is that when you get it, it won't be everything you hoped that it would be.

Everything good is God's gift. He made it all. You did not. If you want it, then you need to be friends with Him. You can't rob Him of any of it. That is simply impossible. If you try to remove Him from any of it, you will end up with none of it. That is what the Lake of Fire means.

@ your first sentence- I'm sorry if I misconstrued you

@ your last sentence- does that make hell a figurative expression??

and then when I mean to be left alone I meant on Earth and not forcibly taken to hell, secondly if god is omnipotent then he should have known right from time that I was going to deny him right?? why still create me to come suffer for what was going to happen nonetheless?

Ihedinobi3:
The Bible does say that God is always angry with the wicked. Considering the wickedness of the Canaanites, even wicked human beings like us would be happy to be rid of them. I don't see why we should think that God would be different from us in that regard.

As for rebelling against God, I do remember doing so. Every time that I choose to act contrary to Him, I am rebelling against Him. You seem by your own words to actually prefer that path, so I am puzzled by your claim that you don't remember doing so.

Finally, I'm afraid I can't take your word for it that not all have sinned. I see no reason to believe that day-old infants don't sin just because you claim that they don't, do you?

what sin have you seen a day old commit before??
be logical.....
just cause your bible said all have seen you want to push the agenda that day olds sin??

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not sure I see where the Jebusites showed up in your post. I'm only just seeing them here for the first time.

Also, I did not equate correcting a child to lifetime torture. I was only disagreeing with your definition of love. It is not God's love for unbelievers that sends them to the Lake of Fire. Rather, it is His Love for believers that sends unbelievers to the Lake of Fire.

His Love for unbelievers is what gives them every opportunity here in this life to avoid that fate.

you equated raping a little girl to me not wanting to accept god's religion (or way of life if you may please)


and if he loves the unbelievers why doesn't he let them be?? I don't see why I should rot in hell forever even when I don't do anything bad or hurt anyone before but just because I chose to be atheist.

Ihedinobi3:
I don't think I could agree that there is a false equivalence there.

First, the issue is that sin is a crime against God just as rape of your infant daughter is a crime against you. That is the whole point. If you disagree, then I must ask you what you think that sin is and why you think that it is what you think it is. That is where the equivalence lies.

Second, rejecting a religion is neither here nor there since Christianity neither professes to be a religion nor accepts that it is one. It is only an offer of reconciliation to the God against whom we rebelled. If you accept the offer, you are reinstated into His family as His child. If you don't, you remain His enemy.

Third, is this a small matter that one insists on remaining God's enemy? I think that you can judge that. If you insist on being left to your own self, as you went on to say, then that is exactly what God will do to you. The Lake of Fire is God's acceptance of the free will choice of His rebellious creatures to be cut off from Him eternally.

The problem here is that people who make that choice appear to fail to appreciate that it actually means that you reject all of God's good gifts as well. You can't live in God's House while insisting that He leave you alone. If you don't want Him, then you cannot live in His house too. The Lake of Fire is where God will not "be." Nothing of His will be there except His absolute rejection of those who reject Him. If anyone does not like that, then they must turn around and accept His mercy. There is no other alternative.

As for the matter of the Mosaic laws about rape, it is a different conversation. Please see this link and the subsequent discussion for my position on the matter.

lemme reiterate, those soldiers fighting for their country love their country and hate the other country so god loved the Israelites and hated the jebusites?? this is what I was pointing at.

secondly I don't ever remember rebelling against god, do you??

p.s don't quote Romans 8:23 "for all have sined" cause not all have sined. a day old baby hasn't signed against anyone so that verse is technically not correct.

Truthshots:
No, the fact is you don't understand what I am saying even though this is not rocket science.

I am discussing facts. And history is relevant to these facts.

Benin empire was not a "Bini country", it was a large country with a central leader called the Oba of Benin, it's people are called Edo and in the context of Nigeria, nobody fits the description of ethnic group more than the Edo.

and so if someone says they don't want to be Edo/bini but you're saying according to history they are and must identify as one what difference does this make you and the ones shouting one Nigeria??

Ihedinobi3:
Hi again.

On your other thread, you asked why God sent His Son to die for human beings. I already offered an answer there. Here though, it seems harder to give you an answer that will not result in unpleasantness. Nonetheless, I'll try.

I'm not sure on what authority you define love as you do. People love their children and still discipline them when they misbehave in order to prevent them from falling into bad patterns of behavior that might destroy their lives later on. I wouldn't say that their love is a lie because of that, would you?

I wonder too if you would say that a soldier who puts his life on the line to kill people who are trying to either kill or enslave his compatriots is not loving because he kills these other people.

Therefore, I can't agree with your definition of love.

Why does God have a hell fire? Because He loves the creation that He made. Not everyone does. Some people want to destroy the beautiful creation that He made. Some people only know how to inflict suffering on themselves and everything around them. Why must God's love then force Him to let these people share eternity with others whom they will only continue to do harm to? What kind of love is that?

The Lake of Fire exists to separate those who hate God and His world from those who love Him and His world. That too is God's Love.

hi again ,
well this is logical to an extent but not so logical, you can't equate or quantify correcting a child (which some African parents do extremely though causing lifetime trauma on their kids) to lifetime torture.
what I'm asking is different from answer, I'm asking if god loves the jebusites that he told the Israelites to annihilate for their land?

Truthshots:
What you forget is that there was a country before Nigeria, it was called Benin empire.

this is what I'm saying, you're not letting the past go, you're trying to force almost all ethnicities in the SS into Edo cause of a bini country that existed in the past just like Nigeria would if we disintegrated.

Ihedinobi3:
Hi there.

I applaud your words. I encourage everyone to seek the truth and be sure of it. The trouble, of course, is when people really aren't seeking the truth but rather are looking for some excuse to reject it. But as unfortunate as that is, it is really each person's responsibility and right to deal with the truth as he or she pleases. I try to avoid infringing on anybody's right to believe or not believe whatever they want.

So, bear with me if I don't make it my responsibility to make my answers acceptable to you. I will give answers that I am convinced are true and defend them to the best of my ability under the constraint of the circumstances of our conversation, but in the end, I don't presume to be able to make you accept anything I say. You alone can choose what you will or will not believe for reasons that appeal to you.

Regarding your question, God sent Jesus to come and die for our sins because sin must be paid for in order for God to be just and God must spare the sinner in order for Him to be merciful.

It is easy for atheists today to pontificate about forgiveness, but not a single one will consider the law that exacts punishment for bad deeds a bad thing when it is they who suffer a crime. For example, if someone were to rape your infant daughter to death, I am pretty sure that you would not consider forgiveness to be the right answer or response to the crime even if the rapist were to apologize for it.

Sin is disobedience to God, a violation of His Will for the Universe that He created. The Universe belongs to Him. Whenever we sin, we abuse it in some way. That abuse must be paid for or else God would not be just. An unjust God is an impossibility. A God Who is unjust is imperfect. Imperfection cannot self-exist. Therefore, it is a contradiction for God to be unjust.

However, God is also merciful by nature. If He was vindictive, then He couldn't be loving. If He isn't loving, then He would not create a universe that would depend on Him in every single way for its very existence. Therefore, the very existence of creation contradicts the existence of an unloving God. God must be loving or else He would abide eternally alone.

Since God is both loving and just, He must forgive sinners while punishing sin. He cannot excuse sin but He also will not destroy sinners without offering them an escape from just punishment.

Therefore, God provided a bridge, a sacrifice in the Person of Jesus Christ Who Himself is God but also became Man so that as Man He could legally bear the responsibility for man's crimes against God while also making it unnecessary for God to punish the rest of His brothers and sisters for said crimes.

This, then, is why Jesus Christ was given by the Lord God to die for man's sins: so that God could forgive all sinners while ensuring that His Justice is served.

this is quite long but I managed to read through. thanks for caring enough to explain that much sir.

answering to what you said I think I would be unfair to equate raping a little girl to me not accepting to be in a religion, which according to Christianity rape isn't so much of a crime as the punishment doesn't seem much of a punishment ( I'll add the Bible verse when I remember) which if a man rapes a woman he's expected to pay her bride price and marry her, so that means a woman can be raped and then forcibly married of to her rapist. sounds illogical right??

secondly, if God is love he really should understand that I just need to be on my own and not have anything to do with him is that too much to ask?? (P.s. this is just for explanatory purposes only as I do not believe in his existence).

Jman24:
Don't worry about me. Worry about religious folks

lol I worry about everyone sir that's why I'm human.

Viewed through every comment on this thread and I can factually say why Nigeria will remain one (at least for a very long time) or if the south breaks up from the north there will still be war. Quite unfortunately the war will be over unnecessary events that occured during the time of our ancestors but generations later we won't let those issues go.

Even if we break up into smaller countries we'll still face same issues as I've seen some Igbos call the Ijaw an inconsequential minority and as such not useful which is the same thing they complain of the Hausas, Fulanis and Yorubas while the Ijaws also call other tribes like the Binis, Esans, Ikars and all minority tribes which is a clear indication that if there was to be no Nigeria there won't have been any civilization in any of our tribes as we would have been war torn like other tribes of eastern Africa.


we could do better, really.

Jman24:
Meehn. I keep saying it. Religion gives credence to atheism. But I refuse to be an atheist

what's your point sir??

Dtruthspeaker:
Is Patience and Endurance Supposed to Last Forever?

Have you seen Anyone who can bear unending pain and continuous suffering for as long as He has Done and Does?

If you yourself want to receive love is it unreasonable to give love?

Is one sided love ever acceptable?

Has He not Loved enough for Him to get Love in Return?

If you want love would it not be good to soothe His Pain and Suffering at the least?

Or is it Good to continue to hurt and wound a Person simply because His Endurance is Long?

Is it not The Law An eye for an eye therefore A Hurt for a hurt?

Now if a person hurts you and you did not hurt back is that not good?

But can it be said that since you did not take your hurt back, the person is free from paying you that hurt ever again?

so god sent his son to die for me and o said I don't want him or any of his religions I just want to be on my own so he'll send me to perpetual suffering forever cause of that??

Dtruthspeaker:
To give man Another Opportunity to Escape His Anger for man was and is Greatly Annoying Him!

so god can't control his anger?

Dtruthspeaker:
That is what Judgement Day is about, it is the Day Of Offences and Reward Good for Good, wickedness for wickedness!

It is the day all who have Offended shall stand Accused.

So thus, if you have lived your life Offending NO ONE, then No One shall Accuse you on that day. But this is not attainable by any soul, everyone Offends everyone and has so offended someone else.

This, this is where the True Christian has an Advantage for he learns the means and skills by which he avoids giving offence to anyone, and he is assisted by God towards remedying all his past offences!

so I'm not going to hell...
thanks a lot for clarifying

Kobojunkie:
The problem is not that I did not answer your question but instead that you are having difficulty grasping the meaning in the answer given you.

now you've deciphered what's happening then answer me in clear terms, does he love them??

Dtruthspeaker:
There is A Time For Everything,
“A time to kill and a time to heal; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to love and a time to hate"

That is why one of the Bible's common word is "After the Passing of Time"

And He who is good knows that a person who does not want to be an enemy will take any opportunity to cease to be one, but if and where he refuses, He sees the set decision of such man and therefore, His Right to Act Arises



He does not kill you for rejecting his love but he will kill you if after you have rejected his love and he has walked away from you, you still went on to hurt his mother, sister, brothers, attack his workers, spoil his work, tarnish his image, hurling Lies, curses and insults everywhere which is reported to him!

so as I'm an atheist but I don't mock Christians but rather support them to practice their faith, speak up for them when they're oppressed then I won't go to hell??
or which other death are you talking about?

Kobojunkie:
Again...

you're not answering my questions directly but deflecting, so I'll ask again.

god could ask the Israelites to attack, main, cripple, kill, enslave and destroy the properties of people of other lands and forcibly take their lands from them but he loved those people??

Kobojunkie:
Again...

so jesus's dieing on the cross was out of pure hardluck and not Divine to save men from sin as y'all say??

Kobojunkie:
What did He need to protect Him for?

so he wanted him to die??

Kobojunkie:
Like I already made it clear in my previous post, God is Love. Everything He does is love and as creator, His Love cannot be, in anyway or form, compared to the ideas and imagings of the created especially where love is concerned.

so if I was god and I sent my followers to let's say kill and rape a 12 year old you would defend me same way??

lilvicky68:
At least not everyone

so everyone would have gone to hell if Jesus hadn't died??

Kobojunkie:
Many of those who were sent before Him were murdered in similar way by those who God has set to teach His people about God, so it is not rocket science that He too would end up with similar fate, yet the New Covenant which He was the embodiment of , had to be delivered to the world of men regardless.

so wait god couldn't protect Jesus from death or he already wanted him to die??

lilvicky68:
Jesus accepted to die for our sins

what did Jesus dieing for "our sins" achieve??

there's still "sin" in the world and people would still go to hell.

Kobojunkie:
The part in bold is not according to the Bible but according to your "special interpretation" of what is in fact written in the Bible. So, how you expect anyone to process that, bullsheet, of yours here as far as love is concerned?
Anyone who has ever read the Bible at least knows that God is love and His actions are all Love in action and Love should never be compared with Man's Man's Man's and ideas of Love. So , you failed when you believed it should.

god told the Israelites to kill and forcefully take over the land of other countries (e.g. the jebusites) and enslave the survivors for life. would you say god loves the jebusites??

Dtruthspeaker:
First, the Be-loved and Fore-Loved did not love Him back but rather disregarded Him and even grew to Hate Him and put Him Aside.

As if that is not bad enough the Fore-Loved even started doing all the things He Hated, even to the murder of himself and his fellow fore-loves!

As if this too is not bad enough, the Fore-loved refused to heed warnings but rather made himself an enemy of God even up to the point of Challenging Him

My brother, if this fore-loved was your wife or child would you still love her and them? Please do not Lie for Nairalands Romance and Family Section will Call you a Liar!

Secondly would you bless them or Curse them for the pain, patience, long endurance and suffering you got at their hands?

Or shall you not take Judgement from them?

I thought god taught us to forgive our enemies?
if yes why isn't he living by example?.

secondly on the issue of rejecting his love you'll agree that when a man goes searching for a wife he'll ask a few or a lot of girls out but not all will agree to him and some will outrightly reject him if he doesn't fit in their books of a proper husband so will he start killing those people for rejecting his love proposal??

Hello and good evening everyone, I'm an atheist and agnostic as well so I've been searching on many religions to find the real one( if there is any) and to unravel a few mysteries as regards creation so I have a few questions to ask and I will be glad if I get some answers.

So since this is the Easter period I have a few questions to ask the Christians...

1) why did god send his son (Jesus) to come and die on Earth??

Y'all religion isn't so correct after all

that's why you take some parts of the old testament and leave the parts you don't like