₦airaland Forum

DaddyCoool:
It is demonstrating that at core the universe is NOT logical. Objects don't miraculously appear on the other side of a solid they can't pass through

You're describing quantum tunneling, which is not illogical at all because it follows directly from the principles of Schrodinger's equation. Therefore, it's mathematically consistent. However what we expect about the interaction solid objects (intuition) might not be fulfilled on a quantum level. Our common sense simply can not be applied in the realm of QM. Once again, your ignorance of QM rears it's ugly head.

But if you still think I'm blabbing, maybe you can register on this forum here and share your views on this thread where the mathematics behind quantum tunneling is being discussed. Let us know how that turns out for you:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/understanding-quantum-tunneling-is-the-schrodingers-equation-the-key.651382/

DaddyCoool:
It is not a question of what I'm familiar with, it is a question of from what perspective we'er talking.
From the perspective of our everyday macro world it is ILLOGICAL and will always be for something to exist only when it's being observed.

Your economics analogy does not apply. For our purposes here we need a word that describes something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" fit the bill

Alright, now you're just becoming obtuse. Me bringing up economics was to demonstrate the fallacy of your thinking that logic and intuition are similar and interchangeable. You claimed the analogy was false but you actually didn't show why it's false, you just keep repeating yourself stubbornly. 😒

The only thing I can parse from your argument is that you're incapable of considering ideas or concepts beyond what you're used to. Counterintuition and illogic are not the same. If you took this argument to somewhere like a philosophy forum where they deal with the etymology of words, I swear they'd rip you apart, no offense.

The reason we think QM is "illogical" is because we're limited by our everyday experiences. It's not a flaw in the foundational logical systems that base QM. The only thing illogical here is your complete aversion to this clearly stated distinction.

DaddyCoool:
Oga abi madam, never said it explained anything. It demonstrated it though

What are we even talking about here? What is QM demonstrating? The manifestation of reality from the transformation of human consciousness? Abi is it the mere act of observation itself?

I dey go sleep abeg. Will continue tomorrow.

DaddyCoool:
For a long time thoughts and imagination were observed to seemingly affect reality then QM came along and provided physical instance where that actually happens!

Madam abi Oga, QM doesn't explain how thoughts influence reality. Rest. 😩

DaddyCoool:
I think you missed this my post:

Both "illogical" and "counterintuitive" describe something that doesn't make sense or follow a predictable pattern. All these are counter to logic of our macro world (normal meaning of logic, as I emphasized). Of course anything can be logical within it's own context, but that's not what we're talking about. You may create a system of logic based on the quantum world and have all these logical and even intuitive, but we're talking from perspective of our macro world!

Just because you've only ever been familiar with "macro world logic" doesn't mean it has now become the ultimate arbiter for making sense of things. And just because QM challenges macro-scaled assumptions doesn't mean it poses any particular challenge to formal logic itself. So there's absolutely no need to impose our own logic rules on the quantum realm. QM already operates within its own logical framework.

Meanwhile let's come back to your argument that counterintuitive and illogical are synonymous. My Economics knowledge is not the strongest but I'll try and use it to try and illustrate the difference to you.

Normally, common sense (intuition) will have us believe that after the government has now increased the minimum wage to 70k, then poverty in the country will reduce to an extent, thereby enabling economic growth. That's common sense thinking, right?

But the reality is that labor costs are going to increase, which means that a lot of businesses could be going through the wringer. To manage costs, employment opportunities might become more limited. Doesn't this seem "counterintuitive"? Afterall, we're all expecting the welfare and livelihood of civil servants to improve with the 70k increase abi?

So yes, it's counterintuitive. But it's still logical. How tho?

Well, it still follows principles about price floors in the labor markets e.g increase in price makes employers to demand less labor, potentially reducing hours or positions. All of that is perfectly explained by economic theory and there are no internal contradictions in these principles.

I don't know if I'm explaining these things correctly but I sincerely hope you get the point cause my head don dey pain me and I wan sleep.

DaddyCoool:
Evidence abound of people who changed their conditions by changing their thoughts!

QM is only concerned with the behavior of particles, not the power of positive thinking. Lol.

DaddyCoool:
Ok, I've now read it and your link. I think you're going to confuse yourself and the "audience" delving into mathematics.
I was going to use the word "counterintuitive" but I decided that intuition usually follows logic and what is counterintuitive is very likely to also be illogical, so no need using such a long word!
All these points below about QM are both counterintuitive and illogical (it's normal meaning)

You didn't really address anything though. Everything you captured in the screenshots are underpinned by rigorous logical formalisms. None of them strictly violate logic.

Logic and intuition are two entirely separate things. QM defies common sense, but that doesn't strip it of its logical underpinnings at all.

StillDtruth:
See why you are a perpetual Fool! It's right there in black and white but you still did not recognize it and you ended twisting it all up.

Why won't your life be messed up and now you are looking for everything to blame for your misery fullness.

Fool when you are tired of using a fork to fill your bucket remember you can just hang yourself with your belt from a tree.

Okay.

Are you finally done, or is there any more stuff you need to bitch, moan and cry about? 🤔

At the end of the day, you're still a jobless and petty old man wasting his golden years on Nairaland struggling to have the last word over stupid meaningless tit-for-tats.

When you're done spitting insults all over the thread, your opinions will continue to remain inconsequential. You're a prisoner of your own ego, and that's why you can't handle the truth. No reasonable person on this forum takes you seriously. So why should I?

I sincerely believe you need therapy, because the way you conduct yourself on this forum is abnormal, saying stupid things and talking to yourself with alternate monikers. Please seek help and stop being a nuisance in my mentions. Thank you.

StillDtruth:
People with intelligence can see clearly that the stupidity of your post has been raised up and that you can not counter it, so you resort to slander and insalts.

Clearly a very big sign of one who whose brain is absent

You wouldn't recognize intelligence even if it ran you over with a tipper of sand. Please see yourself out when you're done talking to your mirror. Thanks. ✌🏽

DaddyCoool:
QM has proven that the universe is NOT logical at core!!!! That's ALL!!! I didn't say it proved anything else!!
And if the univere is not logical, these other stuff are NOT far-fetched (my exact words). NOT that QM proves anything in the macro world!!!!

Lol. I like how you just ignored everything I said (including my distinction between formal logic and common sense) only to come back and keep repeating yourself like I didn't just point out the flaws of your position. Not a good look for you I must say.

If you're going to keep repeating yourself on this subject and not offer any evidence to back your claims up, then my work here is done. I'll let discerning readers decide for themselves.

DaddyCoool:
It is magical sir, because it makes the seemingly difficult or impossible, easy. It shifts the needful from outside you to inside your head! Which makes it all magic NOT logic or science (which are what FiveFootNinj_a is always trying to fit things into!)

If you THINK you are beaten, you are;
If you THINK you dare not, you don't.
If you'd like to win, but THINK you can't,
you won't.
If you THINK you'll lose, you've lost...
Sooner or later the man who wins
Is the man who THINKS he can!

Like Burna Boy said: "you go dey explain tire, because no evidence". 🚶🏽🚶🏽🚶🏽

DaddyCoool:
With respect sir, you're not being truthful. I never said any of these is based on QM. I only said QM illustrates that the universe at core is NOT logical! (And QM is the very core of the universe).

It is beyond psychology and neurology and anything science can explain (which is what you're constantly trying to do - fit things into science). It is like trying to fit the miracles of Christ into science. Many times he said, "Your faith cured you". Your own head cured you! If your head can cure something as complex as a disease how much more these other stuff? And here you are trying to explain it with psychology and neurology!

As for the highlighted, have you considered that the universe is actually logical, except it doesn't confirm to our own expectations? There's actually a big difference between "counterintuitive" and "illogical". Basically there's a difference between common sense and formal logic. It just occured to me that you might be confusing those two concepts.

By the way, quantum mechanics is rooted in logical systems apparently, so that's another one of your claims being shot down.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_logic

DaddyCoool:
With respect sir, you're not being truthful. I never said any of these is based on QM. I only said QM illustrates that the universe at core is NOT logical! (And QM is the very core of the universe).

It is beyond psychology and neurology and anything science can explain (which is what you're constantly trying to do - fit things into science). It is like trying to fit the miracles of Christ into science. Many times he said, "Your faith cured you". Your own head cured you! If your head can cure something as complex as a disease how much more these other stuff? And here you are trying to explain it with psychology and neurology!

I quoted your very own words back at you, so there's no need for you to be disingenuous. I might give you the benefit of doubt if you really didn't understand the implications of your argument, but it was clearly evidenced in the way you presented your argument. And to be honest, it's difficult for me to believe that you really didn't know what you were doing when you said:

YES!! If you are able to honestly see yourself as totally already that. But it doesn't go by comparison (richest), but that may happen by default. It's a power we just don't use because our brain is wired to believe things have to make sense when in fact the universe is NOT logical at all!😆. Quantum mechanics has proven it!

And the tone of your delivery in that last sentence was emphatic.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to fit everything into science. I'm just telling you that most times, observable events can be explained in ways that don't necessarily subvert the common idea of causality. You're the one using magic to explain your ignorance.

IjeBos:
Imagine waking up every morning and looking up information about a foreign country you've never been to and getting enraged about things you barely understand and have never experienced all while the country you do live in is struggling economically and politically.
Sounds insane right?

I think there is someone you know who made it to the US, that you are jealous of and thus want to fail. So you want all immigrants in the US to fail so that person can fail.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

DaddyCoool:
I'm not applying QM to anything, I'm only using it to illustrate that the universe is NOT logical as we are hard-wired to believe. Something that happens everyday, yet you say it cannot happen. Take placebo effect, you'd say that cannot happen, yet it happens everyday! Just know that human understanding of the universe is extremely limited. Nobody says it has to happen in an instant but it has been demonstrated over and over that when people believe something (within reason) without doubt, it happens - exactly as Christ said!
As for version of yourself, you keep using the word instantaneously. Who said it has to be instantaneous? The truth is, even disregarding QM, you can’t consistently see yourself as (example) clean and well-dressed and stay dirty and unkempt for long. Once it gets into a certain depth of your subconscious it must become real.
That can be applied to other aspects of life - once "the universe" gets the message it will arrange things to somewhat effortlessly bring it into being - however hard it would seem to us and however far-fetched it would seem from the current circumstances (infact you can say the current circumstances is irrelevant), also don't consider the question "how", you can almost say it is also irrelevant!

The start of your first paragraph is already a contradiction.

DaddyCoool:
I'm not applying QM to anything...

DaddyCoool:
...I'm only using it to illustrate that the universe is NOT logical as we are hard-wired to believe

I think you know you've overextended a bit with your argument and now you're trying to play it safe. It was comments like these that made me quote you in the first place:

DaddyCoool:
YES!! If you are able to honestly see yourself as totally already that. But it doesn't go by comparison (richest), but that may happen by default. It's a power we just don't use because our brain is wired to believe things have to make sense when in fact the universe is NOT logical at all!😆. Quantum mechanics has proven it!

It's pretty obvious you were trying to portray your worldview as being evidenced by QM claiming it as a framework for your belief, so it's a bit strange now that after this framework has been shown to be problematic, you are now trying to disclaim it and distance yourself from your past attempts of applying it. 😒

I have not claimed that the universe is logical or vice versa. I don't know enough to make any blanket assumptions. All I have alluded to is the fact that the universe as we know is governed by certain laws. Also I don't think your reference to the placebo effect as proof of the universe being illogical is accurate at all.

There have been research works and studies made and documented in neurobiology for the placebo effect. It has been established that the mind can influence the body's reactions through biochemical pathways. What's so mysterious or "illogical" there? 🤷🏽

And you're confusing yourself with a lot of concepts here. Like psychology for instance. It's basic psychology that if I'm envisioning myself as being clean, I'm motivating myself to take a shower, whether I'm conscious of that fact or not. And this is normal human behavior.

No dey whine us abeg. You need actual evidence to make this kind of argument to work. All these ones you're saying right now is just yarns. 🙄

Ah shít. Here we go again...

StillDtruth:
Right now did you tell the op to keep his beliefs to himself?

No!

See, you are exactly the same people you are pointing fingers at whereas you are 3 times worse.

Are you done? 🤔

You're a dangerously stupid and notorious retárd on this forum who has been exposed countless times for lying, replying himself with alternate monikers and arguing in bad faith, so it will be beneath me to engage you in any kind of intelligent conversation. Nothing productive will come out of it, and I have little patience for people who are purposefully dishonest, like you in particular.

People with actual brain cells will read my posts and come to their own conclusions, but thanks for sharing your thoughts. They will be noted and discarded promptly. Thank you. 👍🏽

DeepSight:
This country is such a sad place to watch.

The painful thing to watch is not so much the oppressors but the poor rats who yet sing their praises.

It's our culture. Our culture either exalts fraud and malpractice, or turns a blind eye to it all. The average Nigerian is an unthinking bum who lacks empathy and foresight, and judges others on trivial qualities like tribal affiliation. Majority of us think in the short-term and not in the long-term. Our leaders are just a reflection of what we value and or tolerate in this country.

Like my political science friend would say back then, natural selection will take care of Nigeria in the long run, because critical and strategic thinking is an important skill needed for survival in this day and age, and yet it's the most basic characteristic lacking in many a Nigerian.

RealNiggaDee:
INEC , abi eye neck ...Ona deserve a knock to the head , the one that'd sink y'all into the ground for life .

Eye neck dey always press people neck. 😆

DeepSight:
One has the disheartening feeling that the 2027 election has already been rigged.

But no.
Nigerians.

Do everything necessary to vote out the creature from hellfire, the slave of Shaitan in Aso Rock.

Lol. Of course they've already handpicked the winner of the 2027 election. They're just waiting for the election cycle to come around so that the cards will all fall into place. When it comes to their own selfish interests, the system works like a well-oiled machine. When it comes to the people's interest, not so much.

Gabrielshow24:
Science alludes to dinosaurs going extinct around that time yet fossil records reveal representations of such 'animals' in human civilizations.

While some suggest they most likely stumbled upon the carcasses of these extinct animals

There are slight reasons to suggest they 'saw' and recorded of such creatures.

Let's not get lost in the shuffle here. Even if humans really did come across dinosaur fossils, it's not the same thing as actually recording living breathing dinosaurs. So your earlier claim about humans and dinosaurs cohabiting together is still very much suspect because there's no evidence for that.

Gabrielshow24:
The last theory just borderline centers on human creativity.
Where man's creative expression is at foot.

It just an allusion to a different view 🤔 based on ancient artifacts.

When it comes to reality, evidence trumps human creativity all day.

Gabrielshow24:
To answer your question on God.
Well, that depends on God.
God said "I am that I am".
He also doesn't need your validation to be God! He revealed what was sufficient!

You Christians always present this kind of talk or a variation of it whenever you want to hide your God from further scrutiny. There's little choice for you besides placing him above human reach or understanding. Except most of you Christians don't even try to be consistent with your logic because you'll later go to church on Sunday and start telling people what God wants and what he doesn't want as if you're in his mind. If your God is beyond human comprehension, you shouldn't be knowing that much about him. Lol.

Gabrielshow24:
God is not after those that are materialistic that can't see beyond the realm of materialism!

Irony is you probably learnt this theological axiom from a physical book: The Bible. It's a bit funny though. God needs you rely on a material object to study his word and gain belief and understanding.

If you want me to accept that there is any such thing as a spiritual realm, you'll have to demonstrate it to me somehow. If you can't, them I'm justified to assert that it's all in your head, no matter how much you protest.

Self-evident facts are never contested. It is a fact that you and I exist, else this conversation wouldn't be happening, and our conversation wouldn't be this intelligible. You can't say God exists, then make his existence selective based on certain criteria. It strips away from the objectivity of your claim.

Gabrielshow24:
He wants those that put their trust in him despite physical odds.

I'll just take it at this point that you're admitting you don't have any evidence for your God. Yes?

Gabrielshow24:
The immaterial brings forth all things.
And all things are contained within the immaterial!
The big bang in a way confirms this concept!

Then you're not well informed on the Big Bang because it does not involve the invocation of an immaterial realm. The current laws of physics, are already enough to explain the evolution of the universe from the initial singularity to the present day.

Gabrielshow24:
God decides to reveal himself to whomsoever he wills, it's more of a test.

More pussyfooting to hide the fact that there's no proof of his existence.

Gabrielshow24:
Surely if God revealed himself today, all of you will convert immediately 👀 which denigrates his MO for this present world —living by faith.

I will acknowledge that he exists, but I definitely won't worship him. The God of the Old Testament is a petulant and immature deity that doesn't deserve my respect. If you're cool with genocide, infanticide and all that crap, then that's okay for you.

Gabrielshow24:
If that is the case, her statement is half-true!

It's only within the boundaries of QT that such is the case.

Once in a while, her analogies are somewhat weak.

Many atheists have pounced on her weak analogy fallacies in times past hopefully she corrects it sooner than later!

Alright 👍, thanks for clarifying.

Glad you see my point.

DaddyCoool:
But the gun already exists. It only works with things that don’t exist and you want to bring them into existence - you imagine them and focus on them and they materialise. Something like, say, a version of yourself different from the one that currently obtains!

But how do you know the gun already exists? You haven't seen it yet! 🌚

All jokes aside, I don't think you have a very good understanding of quantum physics if you insist on this funny looking explanation. Quantum effects are not intuitive. They take place at a subatomic level, and under no condition can they scale up to macroscopic objects.

Also, they cannot scale up to metaphysical lengths of transforming yourself from one level of consciousness to another. You cannot use focused attention to transform yourself from one version to another. It won't just happen in an instant. If you are referring to change in character, then that's a result of years of experience and active, observable changes in your own brain, that will bring about a different you. You cannot manifest an alternate version of yourself in a blink of an eye. So it's very ridiculous to think that quantum effects can align with our everyday experiences in that manner.

That's why your argument is dead on arrival, because you seem to be misapplying the principles of QM to falsely argue that with enough focus, you can just bring things to existence just like that. In QM, there's no difference between things that exist and things that don't exist. All particles exist in a state of superposition until they're measured (Look up Copenhagen). I only brought up the gun to challenge your concept of things only manifesting in reality when you observe them. You can't observe my gun at this very moment, but it doesn't make it any less real.

Gabrielshow24:
While this reply is witty, it misrepresents her views.

She's only making a case for God using QM.
The laws of QM are quite different!!!

Hence, You can't compare both instances🙃.

I was only following her logic to its most plausible conclusion. These were her words:

DaddyCoool:
A particle will be everywhere but will only materialise where you happen to look. Your attention makes it real at that spot. So also real life.

Notice how she emphasized her point in the part I highlighted below:

DaddyCoool:
I'm not using quantum mechanics to prove anything. It's just one illustration of how your attention could create reality and that the universe at core is neither logical nor goes by common sense! Examples abound - if you looking at something you're not actually seeing the thing, you're experiencing something in your own head. Hence you could be clearly seeing a distant star that actually disappeared thousands of years ago. So the universe is actually happening in your head. The belief is that it's NOT just happening but that you're actually the one creating the aspect of it that pertains to you!

And this:

DaddyCoool:
Well, everything in the universe is comprised of those quantum particles. If they only materialise when you focuse your attention on them, it is NOT far-fetched to assume that what we focuse on, what we imagine, materialises.

You're the one making it sound like she was just making a philosophical point when she has repeatedly asserted that reality is likely just a construct of the human mind. You can see it above. If you can't see how she's done that, then maybe you're not focusing on the implications of her statements, or you're retrofitting them to confirm with another narrative you've got in your head.

So no, I didn't misrepresent what she said. The problem is a lot of you just make bold claims, but you don't stop to really think about them, and understand what those claims imply. I understand she was trying to use QM metaphorically, but I don't think she thought well enough of the logical consequences of her analogy.

Anyway sha let her come and explain herself. If she's just using QM as a rhetorical device to shield her claims about magic, then she'll just be wasting her time because her argument will fall flat if we really want to get experimental. Lol.

Apart from me wey holy, the entire country na scammers full am. 😤

It would have been better if she just aborted the baby. But then again her mental health was obviously in tatters. Sad.

DaddyCoool:
Can you believe in a million years that something can be in more than one place at once or that something will not exist until YOU look at it?

In quantum mechanics there are infinite possibilities. A particle will be everywhere but will only materialise where you happen to look. Your attention makes it real at that spot. So also real life.

Hi. If you don't mind, maybe we can conduct an experiment based on your logic here? Maybe you should turn around, and let's test your observation hypothesis with a bullet from a gun. Afterall, you're not going to see it, so the gun shouldn't exist. What say ye? 🙃

Firebox123:
you no go get generation right

Lol 😂

No be only generation. Generator nko? 😂

Na so e dey be for set?

Looks interesting.

I pray his birthday cake changes its consistency and turns into hot coal tar just as it passes through his throat. Amen.

Na you sabi. As for me, marriage has never been my cup of tea. I'm a free bird till I die. 😤