₦airaland Forum

Zionmdde:
OK what is the truth that negates the Bible's tale of creation?

I'll take up for Omoawoke here.

Firstly, are you talking about the literal interpretation of the book of Genesis? Or a metaphorical one?

DeepSight:
Ha!

Pity am na.

Na wetin make me like Jakumo be that. Poetic, scathing and devastatingly ruthless. 😭😭😭

DaddyCoool:
Mr Reed you posted a video without watching it!! WATCH THE VIDEO!! How was he exposed as fraud?? He did NOT fail the water test AND he dented the spoon despite the pressure.
Go and WATCH THE ENTIRE VIDEO! Stop making FOOLS of yourselves, you and that woman (or is it man) FourFootNinja!

** AS for Noah's Ark, there are holes in the story (from human perspective) just like Adam and Eve BUT that doesn't mean it didn't happen!!!

I thought you said I lost, so why are you still here flailing about in anguish?

I don't care to watch your silly videos or read your nonsensical stories. There have been numerous instances of them always being shown out to be frauds in the end, and we get to see the mechanism behind their actions.

If you care that much to prove your case, maybe you can go show your superpowers and accept James Randi's One Million Dollar Challenge (if it's still active)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

Or better yet, we can arrange a physical meeting to verify your claims. You went AWOL for 24 hours only to come back and bicker over nothing.

You called me FourFootNinja. 🤣🤣

That's cute. But it won't change the fact that you have no evidence. 🤷🏽

So it's not by crying online. If you don't have evidence for your assertions that we can all verify, please move on with your life. As you can see, we've all moved on from topic before you resurrected it for no reason. 🙂

Omoawoke:
Cure your confirmation bias and dig deeper into that bullshite beliefs you hold.
Don’t be afraid to question anything

This guy sef, you too funny 🤣🤣🤣

He say na "tell me the truth, I can take it". 😭😭😭

On a normal day, there's actually nothing weird or off about guys or girls having friends of the opposite gender. It all comes down to trust. How well do you know your babe to know that he or she won't fúck up? 🤔

I have a girlfriend, and all the while I've also had female friends whom I've never ever seen or looked at in a sexual light cause I don see them finish - as in dem don turn to my bros. Lol. 🤣

Zionmdde:
OK in summary, we are all confused
Now embrace your confusion and let others embrace theirs
There is nothing plausible anywhere, we are confused on the matter of creation, so let's keep that way

Exactly. We're all wallowing in mystery and confusion. There's a lot we don't understand about the universe and that's why we rely on the scientific method. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done far better than any religion out there.

I'm usually suspicious of people who lay claim to universal truth. That's why I'm relieved that you understand the subjectivity of your faith.

Honestly the only reason I even quoted you is because of this sentiment you've been expressing on this thread:

If you don't believe anything about creation, then you have no moral rights or grounds to criticize what others believe.

This statement you made here is terribly false, and that's why I took you to task for it.

Although somehow you've gone ahead to contradict yourself later by admitting that belief in something has nothing to do with the code of ethics.

I'm not sure what prompted your strange and funny volte face. But I'm happy you agree that I don't have to believe in something to call it out for its flaws. So thanks, I guess. 👍🏽

Zionmdde:
Those hypothesis contradicts or physical laws
There is no possible scientific explanation that life can come out from a non living thing. No theory has ever pointed objectively to the origin of "life"

It's none of my business. Like I said before, none of that has anything to do with my atheism. So the truth status of the ToE, Big Bang, etc is irrelevant to me.

And for all the flaws you "think" evolution or abiogenesis (which you described here) has, its postulates are still far more plausible than anything from religion. That's my point.

So Occam's Razor applies.

Zionmdde:
I didn't say my belief is objective, infact no believe on creation is objective and can be scientifically proven. So my believe is plainly subjective. If you have an objective belief on that, you can come up.with it

It's perfectly fine that your belief is subjective.

As for me, I don't have any "beliefs" about creation. I simply follow the evidence. There are hypotheses and theories that exist within the scientific community that perfectly explain creation better than practically all religions out there. But ultimately, none of it has to do with my atheism.

Zionmdde:
We are talking about creation, and every human believes something at least, so the question is, what do you believe? Believe and code of ethics are different

Exactly. Belief in something is different from having a code of ethics.

So since you agree with this fact, why then did you say this?:

Zionmdde:
If you don't believe anything about creation, then you have no moral rights or grounds to criticize what others believe.

Zionmdde:
Sure as long as you argue with your own beliefs

Do you seriously think that rejecting religious beliefs means lacking a code of ethics? Think carefully before you answer.

Zionmdde:
It is my opinion
But sorry to burst your bubbles, if I believe the Bible is right then I also believe that I cannot scientifically prove everything in the Bible, because that won't be spiritual at all and I believe most thunder in the Bible are spiritual

You don't need to be sorry because my bubbles are still intact. You already admitted that you can't show scientific evidence for your faith. And I already know your Bible isn't grounded in reality so there's nothing to argue with you there.

I'm just wondering - since you didn't arrive at your belief via evidence, what reasoning or methodology did you use, that convinced you that it was objectively true?

Zionmdde:
Sure they have the right based on what they believe, as long as they won't scream foul when theirs is also criticized

Very good.

So therefore, you accept that your beliefs, just like those of people outside your faith are fair game for criticism and evaluation. Correct?

Zionmdde:
Because I believe my Bible is right.

Belief is not knowledge by the way, in the conventional sense. So at the end of the day, it is your OPINION that the Bible is right. Keep that in mind.

Zionmdde:
I personally don't criticize beliefs but the behaviour that emanates from beliefs

Let me even say I criticize other people's belief, I do it based on the standard of my belief. Because I believe my Bible is right. So at least I am holding on to something

Okay. So what about those people from other religions or worldviews that don't share your beliefs? Do they not have the right to criticize or evaluate your beliefs based on their own standards? Or do you think there aren't others out their who believe their code of ethics supersedes all?

Zionmdde:
Lol
It's just being scared on standing a ground
If you don't believe anything about creation, then you have no moral rights or grounds to criticize what others believe. Because what exactly is your basis for criticism. You only criticize something based on a standard, so what's the standard for criticizing religious beliefs on creation?

Very interesting.

Now let me use your own logic and turn the spotlight back on you.

Please tell us the moral standard you're using that allows you to judge or criticize others outside your faith?

MadPolitician:
People don't seem to understand that a greater percentage of Nigerias problems lies with a deliberate misapplication of policy because of either a corrupt political structure or because of a very incompetent and totally corrupt out of sort civil service..

Nigerias problems are not necessarily a question of wrong policies. In most cases, the policies may not be the best, but they are good enough to have impactfull results. But they still fail! Why? The civil service is full of incompetent hands and politics is handled by corrupt men.

So whether you want to give out scholarships to gifted students or invest in shiny new infastructural projects, there will always be a blunder somewhere. Someone deliberately or mistakenly making a mess of a reasonably sound government policy. The people that need those scholarships or loans won't get it. And the contracts for those big projects will be inflated, will never be finished on time or might even be sabotaged.

And that is where the rub is; effective management of scarce state resources and not in over prioritising of infastructural developments over business/individuals developments. Many roads have been built, the rebuilt and then rebuilt again since 1999. Same road! Yet in many other countries, some roads are still there since the same time simply because the right hands are in charge in related government agencies..

I gave you a like because you hit the nail on the head in such spectacular fashion.

I've always seen the Nigerian culture as one that discourages people from planning for long term benefits because everyone wants a solution that is immediately applicable. It's the same culture that makes people seek instant gratification for themselves.

This cycle of incompetence that sadly cuts across nearly every sector controlled by the government needs to be broken.

Dieselman:
That's where education comes in. I first talked about skilled work force before talking infrastructures.

Remember he said community A invested in education - that will guarantee skilled work force and will make available the labor force required for those industries to thrive.

The ultimate human capital development remains education and not doling out cash gifts to people to use as start up capital.

Your argument isn't terrible by any means, but I don't think I see it the way you see it (doling out cash gifts).

Calling it "cash gifts" sounds very reductive because the whole idea of empowering people with capital is to create a network of entrepreneurs and private business owners that will drive the economy's growth from the ground up.

This country has a lot of gifted and resourceful people that will greatly benefit from this instead of running out of the country or engaging their resourcefulness in fraudulent activities.

Education is highly important though, I'll give you that. Unfortunately, the Nigerian education system is nothing to write home about.

MaxInDHouse:
LIE!

You make claims but you aren't aware of your claims.

That all the people around you are dumb for believing what was written in books about God.

That the stories are fake.

That you are smarter than religious people.

Do you make these claims or not?

If you don't then there is no reason to disturb you Sir, on behalf of all religious people throughout the world i'm saying we tender an apology!

Since you're on my ignore list, I'll wait for Zionmade to respond for himself.

Thanks for sharing anyways. 👍🏽

stanluiz:
Which Tinubu is building Nigeria ? Is the one that says "Snatch, grab and run like a thief looks like someone that will build Nigeria ?

The same tinubu that is spending tax payers money on Paris hospital while he couldn't even build one single hospital in Nigeria that will treat him.

The same tinubu that him and his cronies are looting Nigeria dry by awarding government contracts to their proxy companies ?

Is it the same man that will build Nigeria ? Shit comot from one side.

Who are you responding to?

Zionmdde:
As an atheist, what claims are you making? We rather start from that

As an atheist, I don't make any claims.

Next question?

Dieselman:
Most people that said B are giving myopic answers. Actually A will be better off in the long run than community B.

This is because the society already has all the necessary conditions required for the community to move from primary ( agrarian) to secondary ( industrialized) economy.

With the presence of schools it means they will have an educated populace with technical know-how. With quality infrastructures in place - good road network, good railway system, stable and constant electricity. This means that the society already has all the necessary features required for industrialization to take place, hence it's now qualified to attract foreign investors in it's economy - we assume it's citizens do not have the resources to invest in the economy.

What will happen here is that most of the people in community B will end up going to community A to invest those resources - where there's enabling environment and this will ensure rapid development of community A while B will remain stagnant with a handful of good residential buildings because of their successful children in diaspora where they do their business.

Remember, that you're at the mercy of the people and government of the community where you do your business. It requires only one government policy for you to lose all that you've labored for.

Again, even without unfavorable government policy, there will naturally be knowledge and technological transfer. As those citizens of community A who are working in the industries established by community B citizens will learn through the ropes at the long run and will branch out to start their own firms backed up by their own favourable government policies. Example is the technological transfer between America and China after American firms moved their production plants from America to China in search of cheap labor. Today China has learned and overtaken them.

So, human capital development no matter how desirable it is cannot be used to compare infrastructural capital development, as the later has more macro economic benefits to the former.

Besides, the ultimate human capital development is education and not just doling out cash to people to invest. Most of the people given those monies will end up squandering them.

This is an Economist speaking.

Cool story, but there's too much emphasis on the infrastructure. How is the infrastructure alone going to guarantee foreign investment? Don't you think a skilled workforce is just as relevant?

If you have all the infrastructure in the whole wide world, but there's no productive economic activity, then what's even your objective? What's your end goal? Where are the direct revenue streams to pay back the loan mentioned in the OP's hypothetical?

OP, wetin we wan come use all these pictures do? Nawa.

Can't wait for this useless drama to be over. People are getting really weird with it.

Did they really disappear? I feel like I've seen their juice cartons in the mall recently.

Chi products are all over the place sha.

Zionmdde:
Lol
We are used to asking Christians to prove that their Bible is true, but when we ask atheists to scientifically prove what they believe in, school will dismiss

Scientifically prove what?

What claims are atheists making? Can you answer that? Let's start from there.

Yoooouu:
Wow, there's a huge amount of atheist idiocy in this thread.

You have the right to feel that way about the conversation, but let's see if your actual critiques justify this statement you've made.

Yoooouu:
They can't be the most evil people on Earth when atheists and the non religious exist. You know, the people responsible for most genocides, massacres and corruption on the planet.

I'll first start by saying that there are atheists who do evil, as it is understood conventionally. It's human nature and history has proven that religious affiliations don't exactly preclude someone from doing evil or not doing evil.

Getting into your actual critique of the "atheist idiocy" you observed, I don't see how someone pointing out the evils - that Christians have done in the past - is inaccurate or false, or worthy of the tag of "atheist idiocy". The dude you quoted didn't tell any lies there, did he? Do you want to tell us that you're not aware of the Crusades? The Thirty Years War? There's many more I might even be forgetting. And the most poignant fact there is that all these were justified by the perpetrators as part of the Christian doctrine. They burnt women deemed as witches and a whole lot of other stuff.

I'm very sure you know all this already, so your outrage at his statement here reveals a bit of insecurity on your part.

Trying to point the finger back at atheists just tells me that you lack self-awareness. When the Crusades happened, wasn't religion the justification for those acts? Even so-called atheists in history who committed evil acts, did it because they were propounding totalitarian ideologies (Stalin, Mao etc). And those ideologies could easily pass for religious beliefs due to their dogmatic nature, which means the joke is still on you.

Atheism has no tenets, no doctrines, no codices, creeds or whatever. It's just a lack of belief in Gods. Why religious people constantly fail to grasp this simple concept baffles me.

And do you really want to discuss scales of mass genocide? You read your Bible don't you? Do you have any idea what your God's body count is?

Yoooouu:
This is clearly mental derangement on your part as well as self projection. Most religious people are good not because of fear of God or the afterlife but because they are aware of what good is and agree with it.

Atheists and the non religious on the other hand...many cannot even comprehend morality and the worst ones are the ones who argue that morality is subjective and therefore all things are justifable. That's when you see true monsters and historically this has been the case with the worst dregs of humanity being atheists.

What's all this nonsense you're typing? Morality precludes religion, just so you know. Every human culture, both the religious ones and the ones that are not religious, have a strict code of ethics. Without these code of ethics, society will collapse. Get yourself an education in the philosophy of ethics before you come here spouting rubbish out of ignorance.

Yoooouu:
Yes, we would.

Meanwhile the non religious and atheists do none of these things. You are hypocrites always judging the religious but you do nothing charitable and you are only filled with venomous hated.

This is the truth and you know it.

So what about Tai Solarin? What about all the secular organizations that do charity like Desta and Children International? Do you think telling cheap lies here will score you points?

I know a wealthy atheist in my neighborhood that is running a program for orphans to teach them digital skills. You opened a new account just yesterday for the sole purpose of attacking atheists without any basis. So far you've not even engaged with other sections of the forum. Who's really the venomous and hateful person here?

Yoooouu:
Have you ever been to atheist or non religious countries? They are the same. The fact you think this is solely exclusive to religious people shows a lack of critical thinking skills on your part as well as how much you are indoctrinated by your hatred.

They're the same? Where? Why don't you give examples and let's see if you're not just talking out of your ass?

I'm not sure what you're driving at here but just in case you're referring to leaders in communist countries then need I remind you that communism is an economic system and not a doctrine in atheism?

Is this entire response from you not idiocy on its own?

LordReed:
Using Uri Geller as example, someone showed to be a fraud on TV. LoLz.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD7OgAdCObs

😂😂😂

I'm not surprised. I knew if I had bothered to look it up, I will just end up uncovering another fraud. But it would have been a waste of time rebutting this clown DaddyCoool with videos like this. I think I'm going to add her (or him) to the ever growing list of Nairaland religious bullshítters that should never be engaged with under any conditions except for mockery of their ridiculousness.

DaddyCoool:
This this story below? I do it all the time. That's not a superpower?

Oopsie, Nairaland won't allow me more screenshots. Reached my limit I guess.

Time to call it a day. Nice chatting y'all. Never forget the universe is weird.
Ciao!!!!

Stupid dishonest troll. The only superpower you have is the power of excuses. 😭💀💀

DaddyCoool:
This this story below? I do it all the time. That's not a superpower?

This comment is unintelligible. Please rephrase. You do what all the time?

DaddyCoool:
Some people have that gift. Why would SOME people have it?? Further proof the universe is weird but we just regard it as normal

You don't have any superpowers. Rest.

DaddyCoool:
That's not my area of expertise

So your prayers and imaginations are useless in healing amputees and mentally rétarded people? Okay. Got it.

What's your superpower again? Lol.

DaddyCoool:
No cursing please. What do you define as superpower

In the context of this particular debate, where you directly asserted that the universe is magical, a superpower would be something that involves the suspension of known laws in any of the natural sciences, ergo supernatural.

DaddyCoool:
You don't always have to achieve. Sometimes you have enough

No wonder you're running around the thread like a chicken with her head cut off.