₦airaland Forum

Akin1212:
LoL, did you just say I am closing the case prematurely? No, I am busy. I cannot keep going back and forth with someone who cannot answer a simple direct question. It's been over 24 hours you have been avoiding answering just one question. That's really surprising.

Intuition is nonsense, intuition is based on the chance you are right and a chance you're wrong. Tell me is that what you want or you want Logic which tells you what is and what is not?

You seem to be so intuitive, no wonder you believe so much in a creator who cannot stop evil from happening, or better still a creator who is evil itself. You are not really helping further discussions by avoiding to answer the questions put to you. So, Case Closed

he believes in a creator who he cannot say if its one or many or machine or big... he can say absolutely nothing about the creator he so much believes in and he is happy.

OkaiCorne:
There are levels of Truth that goes beyond logic and you need intuition to help you. But it seems at the busstop of logic. Get a spare tire for your bus and move on with life. Have an open mind because the science that you rely on does not have all the answers to life.

The TRUTH goes way beyond Science and Logic...Wake up!

are u saying that intuition is better than logic in determining the truth?

OkaiCorne:
Frank317, pardon my previous outburst. But this is my style of doing things. I do not impose my views down on anyone's throat. I will give you clues to the answer because I realized that a man appreciates an answer He arrives at on his own finally...rather than an opinion forced down his throat.

If you think I am a theist...think very hard again, because I have seen life through the eyes of atheism and makes no sense at all (my personal opinion).

The only thing I stand for is TRUTH. And TRUTH is a collection of incontrovertible facts which can be within or beyond your level of reasoning.

Because a TRUTH is beyond my level of reasoning does not mean I should dismiss it as non-existent, and that is my problem with Atheists!

why do u call something beyond your level of reasoning the TRUTH? How do u know its the truth when u have accepted its beyond ur level of reasoning

OkaiCorne:
This will be the last time I will answer your question if you cannot use the basic things of life to understand the complex things.

I have given you countless arithmetical analogies in this thread such that anyone with 5 functioning senses can easily conclude on.

Do you want me to play a video of how everything in the Universe started before you understand?
Did you ask your parents of a video on what they did before you were conceived and birthed?

If you did not ask for these evidence before concluding your parents were your parents, then why is it difficult to conclude everything has a starting point?

This is a public space and you atheists are tempting me to make fun of you. I have not even started with you atheists because I don't think it is worth it pouring water on a stone with the expectation that it would absorb it like a sponge.

I am tired to using an atheist's basket-like brain to fetch water.

well, i must be dumb.

Saying everything and giving me analogies that tries to tell us everything has a starting point does not answer the question of if the creator has a starting point.
If i accept with u that everything must have a starting point, then i must mot accept that the creator has no starting point.

Like i told you in the last discussion... I think its humble and intelligent not to assume up how the universe started and hold on to it like the truth because they lead to more questions. accepting you dont know is wiser to me.

you stick to this starting point ish like is answers my question to u. Sayin and maintaining that everything has a starting point with unrelated analogies does not in any way answer the question on 'if this staring point u point at is uncreated. it does not answer the question on how many these creators are.

You dont need to be angry or arrogant... instead, i should be the one the should be angry that u have refused to answer my question.

If i accept that the universe must have a starting point... i am still left with the question of what or who this starting point it.

I am so surprised why u are not seeing that ur answer does not answer my question.

if u say that the universe must have a starting point which is the creator and maintain that this creator does not have a starting point... then why cant the universe itself not have a starting point.

please answer my question biko. if u dont know, simply be humble enough to say so

OkaiCorne:
Before we get back to the plane of existence stuff. I want to bring you atheists attention to something:

It is not possible to solve Furthermaths without a basic knowledge of Arithmetics.

I have given you atheists countless examples at the Arithmetic level on the existence of a Creator.

1) The Orphan analogy
2) The Pyramid analogy
3) The Orchestra/Choir-master analogy
4) The Ant-Human analogy
5) The Circle theory
6) How every story must have a starting point.
7) The source of your physical existence; and countless other examples.

If everything at the arithmetic level points to the fact there is a starting point, why can't the same pattern apply at the Furthermaths level?

Or is it because what lies at the Furthermaths level is beyond what a combination of your 5 senses cannot decipher? And because it is beyond your understanding and logic therefore, it does not exist?

Unless you atheists are saying the knowledge of basic Arithmetics is irrelevant to understanding Maths and FurtherMaths.

Are atheists doomed to be stuck on a level of knowledge limited to their five senses alone? If so, I'd rather be an idol worshiper than an Atheist, because it seems to me the mind of an Atheist is as closed as a granite rock.

I recall you said ants understand human beings in their own way, but my question is...the way ants understand humans and the way a human understands itself, between the ant and the Human...who has a more accurate understanding?


Just for the records Akin1212, digest what I just quoted now and tell me how to solve maths and Furthermaths without knowledge of Arithmetics. Bon-nuit

Does ur creator have a starting point? How do u know this answer is a yes or no?
How do u know this creator is one and not many?
What comes to ur mind when u imagine this creator that so much exist to u?

OkaiCorne:
If you want to know how humans came to be, read ancient literatures like the book of Jasher, Epics of Gilgamesh, the Annunakis, the Bible, Koran etc.. look out for the similar patterns in the clues. You will arrive at an answer.

I won't force my point of view on anyone

i didnt ask u how humans cane to be... pls refer to my question on information about this one creator u know. How did u come to know its one being

Akin1212:
I don't know what's stopping you from telling us how the choices of our ancestors are responsible for the natural disasters we experience. You are talking about research as if they will tell me about the choices. Just mention the choices and let's move on.

I am beginning to wonder if he is reading before replying... his whole answers sounds disjointed...

I ask... how do u know the creator is one spiritual being and not many alienas or super machines


Anf he replies... what if the ancestors can produce sexually or asexually...

Am kainda confused

OkaiCorne:
Use common sense to answer your questions na. Can there be a family without an ancestor?
What if this ancestor has the ability to produce sexually and asexually?

Humans must have anscestors... but as for how the fiest humans came to be... i dont know...

Do u know? If u know tell me how. Since u as sure it is a creator, please how did u know its one person and not many? What do u imagine when u think of this creator... pls answer my question

OkaiCorne:
Try and use the example I gave you to see the bigger picture.

Can there be a product without a source?

Can ur creator exist without a source?

How did u know ur creator is one person. If u dont respond directly to thia question, we can call the discusion a quit

Akin1212:
But let me respond to this before I pause. Are you implying that we humans are the cause of the disasters that we have experienced? Then why are they called natural disasters instead of artificial disasters? These things just happen, we didn't even cause 1% of the disasters. Why must you blame Humans all the time for everything? We are to blame for eating an apple, we are to blame for this and that. You people even went as far as saying when we were born, we were sinners by default. What's all that?

If your creator created this world, then he has done a very bad job, albeit he didn't.

Imagine.. yet he is not to blame when he reads a book and understands it under 1hr. But he blames humans for earthquake

OkaiCorne:
Nope, but it's sensible not to rule out the possibility of their existence.


It's like forcing a blind man to see something exists before it believes it.

I responded to such assumptions before, let me paste it below


Of course it's possible for an 'intelligent' life form to equally utilize universal energy to create the planet we live in... but do u know of any?

The universe could have come about in a whole lot of possible ways if we want to let our mind run wild... it could have been made by a group of aliens, by energy, by one yawheh or allah, by dinosors, by a giant all knowing ball, by an invisible elephant.... but that will always be just our minds running wild... we shouldn't go about worshiping any of these possibilites just because our minds can think them up.

As for ur last statement... u assum i am blind but u who could cannot answer a simple question... how did u the tge creator is one? U have been avoiding this question

OkaiCorne:
Very good, now we are getting somewhere. Let's assume the Orphan sees a picture of his Parents as evidence to know them.

Now extrapolate this, the way things are hierachically structured from single celled organisms to the multiverse doesn't still make you as an Orphan to believe you have Parents (a source)?

The orphan knows he has parents with two legs and they are a man and a woman. The only issue he has is who are they.

Him beliving he has a source does not mean he also considers the possibility of being birthed by an alien.

OkaiCorne:
When you desperately search for the TRUTH, you will understand my point of view.

have u found the truth? In relation to the OP what is the truth? How and why did ur creator create the devil and let him loses to compete with him for the love of his other creations?

Can there be a family of aliens without a common ancestor?

I dont know if aliens exists... have u seen one before?

OkaiCorne:
Very good, if you started your life as an orphan, does it mean you came to this world without parents?

No... even as an orphan, u know there are families out there with their parents. U dont assume that others have parents... u know because u see them, u hear about it and u know something is missing because u have none. An orphan will know his parents are out there and he will know they are humans with two legs who can talk run and sleep.
Or do u think because one is an orphan he assumes his parents are ghosts or aliens? Or he assumes he fell from the sky?

OkaiCorne:
I am interested in his thought process on how he knows his Parents are truly his Parents...and you answered intelligently that it's because he can see and touch them. What if they are not his true Parents?


Are you trying to tell me atheists are limited to knowing the things they can only see?

Of course its possible that despite all these they are not my parents...

How does this question answer how u got to know the creator is one person or ine spirit being and not a family of aliens?

OkaiCorne:
I guess you atheists are more interested in proving me wrong rather than learning.

Frank317, because you see your parents makes you believe they are your parents? What if they are not your parents? Or is everything you learnt in life limited to what you see with your physical eyes alone?

Is your learning limited to your sense of sight?

Not only sight... hearing, feeling, smelling, and tasting. All these come together to form my reasoning.

If after using all these senses and still it turns out that they are not my parents then they have decieved me enough if i have still have no doubt. I wouldn't consult the spiritual to know if they are my parents would i?

What has all tgese got to do with ur supposed creator whom u are so sure is one individual?

Akin1212:
This made you believe in a creator? That's incredible.

Lol and he forgets that the book was an idea of a human like him.

Perhaps the creator made the writer write in under 2hr and made him read to understand under 1hr

OkaiCorne:
If you assumed I came up with a Creator, let me ask you a few questions.

1. How are you sure your parents are your real parents? Did you:

(a) Do a DNA test to confirm this?
(b) Ask for a video of what happened 9 months before your birth?
(c) Ask for a video of your mother in the labor room?

How did you know your parents are really your parents?

I SEE my parents... i can conpare them with so many people out there and suggest reasons why i think they are my parents. They care for me... even if they are not my parents... their care is enough. We have so many similarities... i can ask them questions and they answer and if i think they are wrong i disagree and sought to resolve it, i have pictures of my mum with me even as an infant. I look like my cousins in different ways. I act like my dad.

Can u do any of these things with ur supposed creator? Can u even tell if its a them, him, her or it?

OkaiCorne:
Have you read a 700 page textbook within hours to pass a tough exam at first attempt?

What has this got to do witg a creator

OkaiCorne:
Have you read a 700 page textbook within hours to pass a tough exam at first attempt?

Lol... i have had to pass an exam without reading any book at all. Just class attendance

OkaiCorne:
If I had the power. YES!

Yes what? Do u think u will do better, lest or just the same.

OkaiCorne:
If I had the capacity to do so, why not?

Thanks to Science and other advancements in other areas of knowledge, Humanity is creating the world on its own terms.

Humanity will advance to a point where they can do this. I might sound ridiculous now, just as how Edison sounded ridiculous before inventing the bulb.

U didnt answer his question.

If u had the power to create life... will u create it like this?
U say the universe was intelligently created... if u have tge power to create the world, as an intelligent being, will u create it with earthquake, hurricanes, suffering, cancer and greed?

OkaiCorne:
I will share some testimonies with you. It's something you can also apply and get results.

I understand that atheists don't care about the seeds, but only the fruit.

I will be qaitinf for ur testimony.

Trust me... if there is actually a seed.. we atheists will definitely care about it.

OkaiCorne:
You are perfectly right in assuming that an intelligent life form, But it's not what religion paints Him/It to be. That's what I want atheists and theists to understand.

Id its not what religion paints him to be.. what is he... how do u know it is a he and not a them or she or it?

NB: i didnt assume any intelligent life form

OkaiCorne:
Perfect response, can you know more than someone that is wiser than you?

It depends... but for the sake of discussion...NO

Because you don't know more, does it stop you from Partnering with such a Person?

No... but i least i know who i am partnering with. The fact that he knows more than me does not mean that he is invisible.

I can only know better with time as I get closer to such a being...

Get closer to such a being... i want to assume u know definitely that it is A being? For starters, how do u know it is one being?

For assumption sake... imagine my sync level is at 20%, because I do not know it all...for now.

This is obvious... considering u make an assumption and call it a creator

For the records, do not see me as an atheist or a theist. I am a free soul.

Sure... no problem

Strive to seek for the TRUTH, for it shall set you free.

What truth? Have u found the truth? What truth did you find out?

OkaiCorne:
If Science needs energy to be manipulated by humans to achieve certain results...why can't an intelligent life form equally utilize Universal energy to create the planet you and I live on?

Of course it's possible for an 'intelligent' life form to equally utilize universal energy to create the planet we live in... but do u know of any?

The universe could have come about in a whole lot of possible ways if we want to let our mind run wild... it could have been made by a group of aliens, by energy, by one yawheh or allah, by dinosors, by a giant all knowing ball, by an invisible elephant.... but that will always be just our minds running wild... we shouldn't go about worshiping any of these possibilites just because our minds can think them up.

Akin1212:
Maybe there were some beings before us, maybe there were some extraterrestrial beings that existed first before humans outside earth and they manipulate or created everything. But brother, they can't be spirits, they will have to be physical beings that we humans can see, and when we die we won't go and be in their kingdom, they will have limitations, they won't have angels or arch enemies, they don't require worships, they didn't make us from clay, they don't give prophecies, they are just physical and in high places.
.

To add... they also dont need to create a devil that will compete with it...


U are doing a great job here by the way

OkaiCorne:
Two questions:
Is it possible for an Orchestra (Universe) to play a harmonious melody without a Choir Master (Creator)?

Is it possible for unconscious energy to create things on its own?

Your points on nature, I totally agree with it. I don't worship nature or "God", rather I synchronize with it to have a fruitful Partnership. It is also not out of place to be Thankful for the fruitful Partnership. At least courtesy demands that.

U synchronize with what? U cant synchronize with what u dont understand... or perhaps u understand it thats why u synchronize with it, which brings me to the question i kept on asking u in our last discussion... how do u know what or who this creator u synchronize
With is? How do u know the creator is one and not many? What image comes to your mind when u mention the creator...what really are u synchronizing with

hopefulLandlord:
They're living older than Jesus did, they're using technologies Jesus couldn't use; those are "greater things" don't ya think?

Lol .. the greater things jesus meant was that people, both sinners and unbelievers will live older than him and use the technologies he wasn't opportuned to use... this is a new one.

Lol.. God must exist by fire by force, even when he obviously dont want to exist.

joshnes:
Thirdly, if you are suffering in life, God has nothing to do with your suffering, wake up and take responsibility. Your suffering could be either down to terrible decisions you made or the terrible decisions of others around you.

Likewise if u are enjoying or successful or happy.

U guys should decide what God's role is to humans... is it just to sit down like zombie and watch humans all day?

When the going ia bad, its mans fault but when its good its God... how come our decisions are blamed when tge result is bad, but they are descarded when the result is good?

Do u even know many are suffering for something that is not their fault?

joshnes:
The answer is simple: because He is God and His ways and thoughts are not like ours(Isa 55:. So sometimes, you can't comprehend what He is doing untill He is done. Also, He will have mercy on who He will have mercy on (Romans 9:15-16) meaning, He owes nobody no explanation for not healing someone, just as He doesn't need to explain if He does heal anybody. It is His mercy and He reserves the exclusive right to give it as He pleases. Do you know it is possible that he Cobhams, might have just been a struggling pianist if he wasn't blind. You're seeing a good pianist who is blind, God is seeing a blind man who despite his blindness is an excellent musician.

Lol... how about God making u the best pianist, singer, and famous but blind.

U sound like Cobhams is happy for being blind, like if he is asked weather his vision should be restored, he would say no.

Ur God is confused if he intends for us not to comprehend him, yet he is angry when a confused person does not believe in his existence.

U create a God in ur head and make him both arrogant careless and incomprehensible, but loving.

Continu

ScienceWatch:
OtemSapien, the rubbish you post here is a classic example of the alleged scientific findings that found after a 22 yr study that Atheism is a mental disease. You make it very hard for Atheism to get the respect they crave. Only a mad man disrespects the institution
he is part of.

Your many contradictions only make you look stupid in front of the whole world. Jim Iyke,s mother died of a stroke brought on by her wayward son's gay, bi-sexual behavior. A mother hates seeing her son's lolly in the wrong trolly.

The scientifically verifiable, live personal, global testimonies of Medical doctors, professors, kings, presidents, pastor etc etc, make your feeble attempts to destroy the gentle, kind man, TB Joshua a huge joke. The wise men of the world will laugh in your cowardly face.

U must have serious mental issues