₦airaland Forum

@hercules BABA

Enjoy:

. . .The origin of Old Oyo is traceable to Ife, the cradle of the Yorubas. Oranmiyan, a grandson of Oduduwa (however other accounts have it that Oranmiyan was one of the sons of Oduduwa) is the founder-king or first Alaafin of Oyo. Oduduwa gave birth to only one son named Okanbi, who also gave birth to eight children, 7 by his "legal" wife namely: Onipopo of Popo, Onisabe of Sabe, Alara of Ilara, Ajero of Ijero, Orangun of Oke-Ila, Owa Obokun Ajibogun of Ijesaland and Oranmiyan, and one Ooni by his slave turned wife, named Orunto. Another account holds that Ooni was born by a strange woman who was to be sacrificed but was spared when she was discovered to be pregnant. Either way, Ooni became the ruler that succeeded Okanbi while subsequent Ife rulers have maintained the title. This I guess is the reason why it is being argued today that Ooni, not being a (direct) descendant of Oduduwa, has no royal blood in him.

Is the Alaafin superior to Ooni of Ife? No Alaafin has disputed the fact of Ife being the cradle of the Yoruba race or Oduduwa as our common ancestor or that Oranmiyan from Ife founded Oyo. When Oduduwa died, Oranmiyan had already established a vast empire at Oyo Ile. In apparent recognition of Ife as the source, Oranmiyan was buried in Ife and not Oyo. Is it possible today for Ooni, claiming to be the king of the source, to seek to lord it over the whole of Yoruba land? Let each oba maintain his nuclear domain. Though some of these things are arguable, Ooni has however perfected survival and supremacy strategies with which he has continued to edge out the Alaafin nationally. For Ooni and Alaafin, the respect and influence which each of them commands is a function of their personality. Why did Oba Adeyemi not challenge the chairmanship or supremacy of Sir Adesoji Aderemi only for him to take on his successor, Oba Okunade Sijuade?


Even though Alaafin was a powerful king in Oyo (especially in Oyo Ile), his powers were not absolute. He was curtailed by the Oyo Mesi (council of non-royal chiefs) led by the Bashorun. Bashorun Gaa was more notorious in this wise. He installed and dethroned three Alaafins; where else does an individual wield so much power over the throne? The Oyo Mesi had power to elect and dethrone an Alaafin. They also control the military with Bashorun as the Commander-in-Chief. There was also the Ogboni group that was like a supreme court that has powers to review the actions of both Alaafin and Oyo Mesi. Unlike what obtains now, the Alaafin rarely leaves his palace; it was the Aremo that usually run the show outside the palace. This is a pointer to the fact that the present Alaafin himself is downplaying Oyo's culture and tradition. . .

tpia@:
let the man answer for himself or are you his mouthpiece.

[b]your interest in derailing the thread is very suspicious.[/b]i have no idea what he meant hence my question.

so stand back!

maybe you are odili's daughter?

In what sense? I am a true son of the land , and will not stand back while some ragamuffins malign the Arole Oodua.

tpia@:
explain more plz?

Why the interest? These are false stories manufactured by the Alaafin and other olote Yorubas to discredit Olubuse II. Foreigners like you need not concern yourself with falsehood.

Chuks84:
I have always thought of myself as one beyond tribal sentiments. I truly believe in one Nigeria. But when I read the article about emegweali on SR. All i could think of was how tribalistic the writer was, if emegweali was a yoruba man, will that silly prof have attacked him? The writeup was vicious and at times petty. I was sorely disappointed that a fellow nigerian would do this in the guise of defending the black race. And we talk about one nigeria.

The article was not written by Prof. Falola. It was written by an Ibo journalist who works for SR using evidence that is widely available on the internet. Falola only hosted a discussion on Philip Emeagwali’s fraudulent claims. He has got nothing to do with the article. You guys peddle rumours as fact just so you can hang the honourable Yoruba man whose name only appeared once in that expose. Lets call a spade a spade, Emananananananananagagagwalada filipo is a Fraudster, just like everyother IBO man, and yes including Mr. Gay Achebe, Ms. Coward Ojukwu and Master clueless Azinkiwey.

DapoBear:
So Yoruba from Ogun or wherever else could legitimately run for office in Lagos? Even governor?

I always got the impression that this doesn't really happen in Nigeria, you have to be a native of the state to run for office and be competitive. . .

It only happens in Lagos because it is prolly the only state in the federation with more foreigners than indigenes.  And also, who wants an Awori man as the Governor of the commercial city of Nigeria. Even people like Funsho Williams are not more Lagosians than the likes of BRF, a confirmed Ekiti man. The point is that, the set-up as it is now is fine, that as long as you speak Yoruba , and you are Yoruba, and love Lagos-state with all you heart, you should be allowed to aspire to the highest office in the Land. I have no problem wih BRF, but Tinubu should never have been allowed to become Governor.

birdman:
oau with a little too many alutas under my belt. Wasted years, shivers

Now I see. So you really do not know how it all went down. You are not from thereand you reall can't count OAU as part of core Ife. Now I know the reason for your distorted history about what started the last war.

Aloy+Emeka:
Can't you make your point without dragging Yoruba into this?

No, I can't. I am a tribalist to the core. A Nigerian KKK, bent on seeing the destruction of the dirty Ibos.

Onlytruth:
The question then becomes: if ever there is a need for Yoruba to fight against Nigeria, will they ever do so? Answer: NO!
Why? COWARDISE.

Cowardice, not cowardise. Another evidence that your ethnic group is inferior to mine. Yorubas are better than the Ibos in all speheres of life. Thanks you!

Onlytruth:
^^

If you are honest at all, you will know that there is a time for everything under the sun. The Igbo are a very deliberate people. We don't rush into things. Ever.

So, if we fought that war, we had NO CHOICE. Nigeria attacked us FIRST.
The mistake we made was to be on defense throughout. A lesson learned. We NEVER really attacked throughout the war because we thought we were dealing with humans.

And where is that coming from.   .    .    .  .    .     . Could it coming from Mr. F-a-g-g-o-t Ojukwu, THe Ikemba Cowardemba Faggtemba Pediophiliamba II. BTW, tell him I say hi.

Environer:
After which Awo committed suicide. Too bad.

During the Nigeria/Civil war, A Yoruba man served as Quartermaster-General of the Nigerian Army under General Yakubu Gowon and organized the logistic support leading to the comprehensive defeat and surrender of ‘Biafran Army’ - a ragtag Army of rebels!”

We still beat una like small kids!

Onlytruth:
Probably, (thanks to Awolowo) but highly unlikely. The people starving to death were WOMEN and CHILDREN and OLD PEOPLE.
The Biafra military never starved for a day because they were collecting the food and even arms from defeated Nigerian soldiers. 

Yours is a cheap attempt at re-writing history. The Biafran military were the last set of Ibos to starve because , with incresing famine, they resulted to cannibalism; eating their fellow weak Ibos.

Gbam! Gbam!! Gbam!!!

Aloy+Emeka:
What did he boast of that he doesn't have?

A Yorubaman-like big d-i-c-k and intellect

Onlytruth:
Actually there was NO victor and No Vanquished. The easterners were not forcibly disarmed, they voluntarily handed over their weapons. Joe Achuzia -a Biafran commander- clarified that during an interview earlier this year.
If we knew then that Nigeria would completely renege on that spirit, we would have kept fighting till today. Eastern leaders mismanaged our VOLUNTARY surrender. A HUGE LESSON learned.

. . . . because they were starving and could not think straight?

Environer:
So Asiwaju means leader? lol! So a conman is the Yoruba leader? Mo gbe!!!!

. . . . just as you have a coward, Ojukwu, as a leader.

Those were the words of General Yakubu Gowon  in 1970. Was he really speaking the truth or did the Yorubas, with the help of the Arewa, thoroughly defeat the ragtag Biafran army?

Let the discussion begin, but don't foget that the spin stops here!

Aloy+Emeka:
98% of the people here accusing Emeagwali of fraud cannot even understand what his invention is all about. It sounds like Greek to them but as long as their contribution increases the ovation, they wouldn't relent in doing it. It is a pity that those who have legitimate concerns about Emeagwali can hardly get their questions answered because of these ethnic juggernauts who pounce on everything that has "igbo".

More accusations that have ethnic/racial undertones:

1. Barrack Obama was born in Kenya, if he denies it, let him post his authentic birth certificate on CNN. As a matter of fact, the prophetic newspaper that reported his birth in the 60's forged it because they knew he was gonna be a president in 2008.


2. George Bush never obtained his MBA from Harvard through the right means. No matter how you try to explain it, black racists continued to claim that he is a slowpoke who hardly got a high school diploma.

Who is Barrack Obama?

Blazay:
Of course it works for the white people who invented both the word love and the concept of the internet.
Only extremely ugly people from Africa hook up on the internet to find love.
Not our African culture. Before you know the parents of the Face book flames you are already 4king yourselves.

Such a medium can only be used to get reformed male and Follows for side-kicks.
So, get ready to hook up with an ethnic taboo on 2 legs as an African looking for love on the internet.
Most of these people online will not even find girl/boy friends under normal circumstances.
They are mostly social outcasts rejected by ALL sane families in their homesteads.

Thank God for the internet.
Psycho-social outcasts have a chance at the thing called 'love'.

May my ancestors forbid me to find love on the internet.
No wonder you get scammed by non-English speaking illiterates of males and baby elephants of females masquerading as 'financial' asssistants to help you ship your cars from continent to continent.

After falling for their sweet lines of lies on the internet, you part with your wallets.

A fool in love and his or her money are soon parted.

Well, happy it worked for some. I would not try it for long term romances.

From the way MOST reason on the internet, you can be rest assured that only trouble will come your way as fake personalities.

Getting married is only the first step. With the ever-escalating trend of domestic strife and divorces amongst Africans world-wide, internet relationships amongst Africans can only multiply our 419 genetic make up exponentially.

It is not how far, but how well since life is not a competition.

Some even use their handsome houseboy's/housegirl's photographs to lure people across continents, only to end up in bed with the Oga's driver or housemaid.

Lord, I have seen things happen.

Sorry, internet romances are only for those who have not hope at the real things.

Count me out.

A waste of my time and resources for real.

Well said, Aboki. Now go chew some gworo and while you are at it, don't forget to feed the cattles, very important

@birdman

Where in Ife did you live. I attended School of Science, Ondo-road, Ile- Ife.

Good job, Ileke!

Blazay:
This is getting riduculous.
Keep chasing your shadows and tails.
See how easily a thread can be derailed?
Speaking of the good Mallam "Gwobe" of NVS.

As he would say:

Aluta!

If you don't stop your Almajiri, Boko Haram - like behavior, I am going to ask Seun, who is not a gworo-chewing Aboki, to close your account. Your people are disgracing us everywhere. Damboromba shege!

Environer:
I was wondering now I know he is a gworo-chewing, cattle rearing aboki. Please tell him there is no Boko Haram situation here

He is one of those privileged Abokis who got a spot in our universities with 120 JAMB score. Bloody ingrate!

Blazay:
Yeah right.
Like the Igbo man is not as bad if not worse than the Yoruba man?
I will always have problems with those two ethnic groups in Nigeria.
The main problems that keep dragging Nigeria to the primitive ages of the darkest stone age.
Too bad Phillip Emeagwali is an Igbo man.
He is too polished to come from such an ethnic group of savages,
Thank God he is not married to a Nigerian woman.
She would have pulled him down even more.
Thank God for small mercies.

Mr. Aboki, Stop talking. You are bringing down the quality of this discourse. Please, stop posting, and watch as we debate.

The review was not written by Falola. . . . . Epic fail!

hercules07:
@tpia

Oh okay.

@fstranger

Ooni is not the father of yorubas, that distinction belongs to the Alaafin ( despite his bleached face), the Ooni title is a nonentity in yorubaland, I will concede that the Olubadan title was given just to have a recognised leader too, that one too na nonentity title (but it was held by men of valor sha o).

I stand by what I said. Just because you disagree with it does not make it false. Against all odds, we stand the test of time.Thank God. Forward ever we go, backward never. We are here to stay as the "Orirun Yoruba. "L'oju Alaafin and other jealous Yorubas, bi k'aku. But God dey.
Let them talk, God made us the head, and he is not about to change our status.

I will refer you to Prof. Akintoye's book.  .  .  .  . A  History of the Yoruba.

Below is an except from the review of the book, enjoy:

this book directly contests and shifts the focus of Yoruba
history away from what many have called the Oyo-centric account of Samuel
Johnson. While other academic historians have over the last eighty years or
so, commented on the limitations of Johnson's pioneer effort to write a
comprehensive history of the Yoruba, it is the present author who has taken
up the historic task of actually (re)writing that history comprehensively
and attempting to transcend the limitations of an accomplished and great lay
historian that was Samuel Johnson.
Where Johnson avoids the creation myth that positions Ife as the
sacred locus of Oduduwa's original descent and the *orirun *(creation-source),
Akintoye, justifiably, restores Ile-Ife to its proper place as "*ibi ojumo
ti mon wa'ye"* (where the dawn emerges). Where Johnson justifiably situates
Ibadan, described by some as the "Yoruba Sparta", as the "Salvationist"
core, in military terms, of the Yoruba people in the late 19th and early 20
th centuries and places Ibadan at the very centre and as the symbol of the
"neo-Yoruba", and also as the spatial representation of the possibilities
inherent in the Yoruba future, Akintoye recognizes Ibadan's key role in
Yoruba history but refuses to dramatize it like Johnson or weave the future
of the Yoruba around the emergence and (mis)fortunes of Ibadan. However,
there is no doubt that indeed, as Johnson notes, Ibadan became the centre of
Yorùbá modern history from the 1830s. But Ibadan's emergence as the new
hegemony after the collapse of Oyo Empire with its strong military presented
a contradictory challenge. As Johnson*4* states, Ibadan was as much "a
protector as well as a scourge in the land . . ." in that era.
Akintoye's *A History of the Yoruba People* also reflects the
differences, and perhaps contradictions, between the academic historian
(Akintoye) and the lay historian (Johnson). Where Johnson emphasizes the
discord and dissention among Yoruba sub-groups, particularly in the
19thcentury and the disunity among them, symbolized, for example, by
the split
between the Oyo-Yoruba and the non-Oyo Yoruba, he also prayed for the *return
*to "universal peace with prosperity and advancement" and the welding into
one of "the disjointed units under one head", "as in the happy days of [*
Alaafin*]* *ABIODUN*5*. On his part, Akintoye emphasizes the "immemorial"
unity and the singularity of the common identity of the Yoruba, despite
minor disarticulations through the ages. Where Johnson, in contradictory
ways, tries to reconcile Ibadan's history and role with the Victorian gospel
of Christian modernity, enlightenment and civilization appropriated for and
domesticated in the Yoruba, while externalizing Islam in Yoruba history and
future, on the contrary, Akintoye places the two world religions,
Christianity and Islam, in historical perspectives and situates the tensions
and contradictions evident in the Yoruba encounter with the Christianity and
Islam without ideologically privileging one in the visions of Yoruba future.
In a sense, some critics may accuse the author of presenting an
Ife-centric approach to Yoruba history, with emphasis on other eastern
Yoruba sub-groups such as the Ekiti, the Ondo and the Ijesa, but indeed,
this can be seen in broader light as an attempt to provide a more nuanced
account of the roles of the different groups in the making of history which
is largely silenced by Johnson's narrative which is constructed around Oyo.
Where Johnson's *The History* understandably ends at the "beginning of the
British Protectorate", Akintoye's *A History* takes it further into late 20
th century which foreshadows the 21st Century.

tpia@:
fstranger with the very ugly and uncouth mouth, is a yoruba?

that's too sad.

marry outside abeg.

some genes need to dispense elsewhere.

You know you love me, right. Anyhow, I am hooked to another Yoruba lady here on Nairaland. Wish us luck.

hercules07:
We should do away with these traditional rulers, they are nothing but leeches on the common man jare. As per Modakeke, they were not servants, they moved to Ife when they had an Ooni that really loved them, seeing as they were subjects of his overlord, he gave them land and so many other things and they reciprocated the love, when he died, the new Ooni did not like them at all and made sure he fought them, the Modakeke dealt with him and his people (fighting fulanis no be beans na) and drove the Ifes into the bush, they later had a rethink amongst themselves saying they can not drive away the owners of the land, this happened twice more, the last war that was fought saw the coming of the white man; the Modakekes were asked by the white man who had intervened to move from where they had settled to a settlement far away in order for peace to return, they refused initially but the Ibadans prevailed on them to move (the ibadans were their defenders anyway) and they did. The present settlement of the Modakekes is not where they were initially.

This is total rubbish. Those Akos never drove us out of our land. NEVER! NEVER!! NEVER!!! Their population is about 1/4 of ours. They never had the might nor the means to face the Ifes. What you wrote is just total fiction that I have heard time and again from my Modakeke friends, which makes me wonder if you are truly "omo Ibadan" as you claimed.

tkb417:
are you close to being remanded in a solitary confinement yet?

1) i meant Posse not pose you dirty illiterate!!!

go learn a word. POSSE!!!!

2) where did i complain about women getting old and still single? did you miss the convo between myself and Creamish? or did you miss my convo with Oyinda? which of them suggest that diatribe you posted. my prob with your initial post was your dumb generalisation about 9ja men and oh lawd , it took you this long to figure out?

ure eternally bereft of any logic and human understanding. I cant stand your mental state, its a shame for someone who bask in self aggrandizement and yet couldnt decipher the difference between posse and pose in the context i used it

if it were to be in the medieval ages, you shall be a sacrificial lamb to the gods of thunder!

and about the education bit? hahaha

not in your lifetime babes, i dont roll at your peasant level

Now list your qualification(s) or else, I am calling shenanigans on your post!

Ileke-IdI:
I agree with you. I've said it many times on NL that Yorubaland needs to get rid of it's fake royalties.
I would totally support it if they try to influence our actual political officials in the RIGHT path [what is right path? However ambiguous the political def of RIGHT might be ]. But they don't, they just sit on their fake throne and clain king, mtcheww. [Anybody has the right to prove me wrong. Plz do.]

Where were these obas when our governors are looting and killing each other because of political positions? Where were they when Yorubas were being killed in Jos?

If someone can tell me one significant positive move an "Oba" ni orile Yoruba. . . . kin'ise won?

I actually was applauding Ooni before I read about him [on this thread] and his part(s) during the Abacha regime.

Your level of reasoning gives away your age, unfortunately. However, I will not use it against you. There are no fake royalties in Yorubaland. These are real people, with real titles, and with authentic mandates. Before the Oyinbos, who you look up to for direction, came to our land, we have always organized ourselves, with the[b] Obas at the helm[/b], into city-states, of course not as it is done presently. The Oyinbos did not open our eyes. We have always been civilized, irrespective of what is written in western books. So the Obas, from time immemorial, have always served both as spiritual and physical heads of the Yorubas.

As for your question as to what they were doing when the politicians were looting.  .  . What do you expect them to do? Western democracy,  which is the only form of government you've always known does not recognize the monarchs, and there is no way, constitutionally ,for them to do anything about the wanton looting by our politicians.

Nothing you read on this thread should diminish your respect for the Arole Oodua. What happened during the Abacha regime is for historians to figure out. And history will judge whether he did the right thing or not. And most of what is being said about him are mere rumours, manufactured by people, like the Awujale and the Alaafin, bent on tarnishing his image. And we all know why.

DapoBear:
One other thing, going forward, we definitely need to reduce the power of these traditional leaders. They should by symbolic figureheads, and not have any real power. Democracy is the way going forward. The Queen of England and various other Monarchs in Europe have rightfully receded to the background. Our Yoruba Kings also need to learn that it is time for them to take a step back.

They can smile and make general fuzzy statements like this, take pictures for television/newspaper/etc. But they should not be political powerbrokers.

This Abacha event is pretty frightening to me. There is no reason that in this day and age an unelected ruler should have that much power.

What else should we reduce? We should reduce the amount of Yoruba language we speak in public, we should also reduce the amount of Yoruba language that is taught in schools, and while you are at it, we might as well reduce our Yorubaness by bleaching our skin, so we can look more British. The point here is that the Obas play too significant function in our life to be relegated to mere symbolic roles. They serve important functions in our democracy. They serve as crucial links between the educated elite and the uneducated commoner. I lived in the ancient town of Ife and I saw firsthand how the Obas and the Baales were revered, an eye-opener for me as I wasnt used to this in Lagos. The common man in the street, rightly or wrongly, believes very much in the integrity of the palace. They would do anything for them, as the Obas are regarded as God-sent, and God-anointed. And BTW, there is no sure fire way to practice democracy. We dont have to do everything like the British and the Americans. Our culture defers greatly from theirs. And the best way to go about it is to integrate as much as possible, the Obas, Baales, Emirs, and the ever silly Obis, into our polity. By so doing, we will ensure equal representation, and more significantly, informed participation, of all.

As for me and my household, I will never use my left hand to point at my father's house.

A word is enough for the wise.  .   .   .  . Yoruba r'onu.