₦airaland Forum

According to the bible, tithe is one-tenth of your income.

Not in my Bible. Give me scripture where the tithe was ever a tenth of anyone's income.

It is entirely biblical as a form of giving to choose to set aside 10% of one's income and give it in/to "church".

Agreed, which is why it can be called tithe AND be biblical because tithing in its base meaning is 10%.

Sorry, debosky, but that doesn't meet the definition of Biblical.

IF it is Biblical to call giving a tenth of your income to the Church, then it must say so in the Bible.

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary:
Bib·li·cal adj.
1. of or in the Bible: a Biblical name.
2. in accord with the Bible.
3. evocative of or suggesting the Bible or Biblical times, esp. in size or extent: disaster on a Biblical scale; a Biblical landscape.

There is NOTHING in the Bible stating any tithe IN THE CHURCH.

Just because the word "tithe" and "tithing" is in the Bible, doesn't mean you can use those words OUT OF CONTEXT and still call it Biblical.

Tithing is Biblical. Tithing to the Church is NOT Biblical, BY DEFINITION. The word "tither" isn't even in the KJV.

Wordtalk - you really do have an ego problem.

One question: do you reaaally think garyarnold believes people should be tithing from trash can?

Garyarnold has not withdrawn the statement, but you expect someone else to know if he reaaally meant that?

And I won't withdraw that statement.  I didn't say I would give a tenth of trash, I was making the point that IF tithing can be on ANYTHING, then trash qualifies.  That's all.  Voluntary giving can be the giving of trash, but that doesn't mean anyone is going to give trash.

MrBible said, “All the people I personally know that pay tithes I cannot call any of them blessed financially.”

Exactly the same with me.  I personally don't know even one person who claims to be a tither than has been blessed financially enough to where it shows.  ALL of them tell me the same thing - I tithe and my needs are met.  Well, that means nothing.  All the years I was an atheist my needs were also met. 

Wordtalk accuses me of bragging but puts on her own website the following:
“However, expressing my giving through tithing is an act of worship and a demonstration of my stewardship to God.”
“My giving is not limited to alms but extends to tithing – the voluntary giving of a tenth of my income, set apart as my priestly act of worship to God.”

If I was bragging, then wordtalk must also be bragging.  Otherwise, wordtalk has once against used a double standard.  Personally, I don’t think wordtalk is bragging here but rather using what she does as a way of teaching, the same way I use what I do as a way of teaching.

As a general statement to which there may be many exceptions, so-call tithers are the only ones broadcasting the percentage they give.  And like I have already said, there is no reason to use the word "tithe" today other than to let others know that you are giving a tenth, and it will be inferred that it is a tenth of your income.  This "voluntary tithing" is an ego thing as far as I'm concerned.

Wordtalk still accusing me of telling how much I give.  Wordtalk has NO IDEA what my income is.

Wordtalk does a lot of talking but says very little.  Wordtalk leaves it up to each individual to decide what tithing means to them.  Therefore, the word tithing can mean so many different things that the word becomes worthless.

You brag about your giving and you CANNOT deny the fact!

Since I don't brag about my giving, I must say that you are a liar.

I have never said how much my income is, or what dollar amount I give.  I am not the type of person to brag about my giving.

@ debosky,

Wordtalk is pulling the wool over your eyes again.

Wordtalk says I can call tithing if I give a tenth of my clothes to the Salvation Army.  But Wordtalk won't call that tithing.  Notice how he words things so carefully as to NEVER say that he would call other than giving a tenth of income in the church "tithing."

I am a teacher of sacrificial giving.  There is no better way to teach than to teach by EXAMPLE, the way Jesus did it.  I do not brag about my giving, but use myself as an example.

If someone gives 10% of their income, some say they are a tither.

If someone gives 5% of their income, there is no special title, like tither, to give them.

If someone gives 25% of their income, there is no special title, like tither, to give them.

"Tithers" get a special title assigned to them which makes them feel special.

Why is it that ONLY those who give a tenth are "recognized" by a special title?  It's absolutely childish and silly.

An example qualifies as an example - even if it is ONLY ONE example.

Only IF it is labeled as an example and not written to infer that it is the only way.

I don't brag about my giving. The problem is that anti-tithers are constantly being accused of being stingy. I try to make the point that I am not stingy and in fact give far more than most tithers, percentage wise.

There is no other reason for using "voluntary tithing" other than to let others know what you are doing. You must want others to know you are giving a tenth or you wouldn't need to use the word tithe. You don't need to advertise the percentage that you give. Giving is between you and God.

If I present my opinion on how I give tithe, why am I obligated to explain every possible way others might give tithe?

Giving ONE example of tithing on income is not proper in my opinion. Yet, no one would be obligated to explain every possible way. How about just two or three EXAMPLES, and call them examples.

I have no problem with someone tithing as we concluded on this blog IF THEY FULLY UNDERSTAND that tithing can be on anything, given to anyone, and only once or as often as they wish. I wouldn't criticize that giving. I would, however, think it absolutely silly to call it tithing since everyone on this blog seems to concur that tithing means absolutely nothing more than giving a tenth of something. Since giving is supposed to be secret, WHY in heck does anyone need to use the word "tithe" other than to get an acknowledgment from either God and/or man? To me its the same thing the Pharisees did - bragging.

I still do not agree 'whole truth' issue - those teaching tithing from their point of view do not have any obligation to cover every aspect of tithing before their views are valid.

Presenting only a part of the truth might be seen as lying by some.

I graduated from college with a Bachelor of Science degree AS AN ATHEIST.  What was it that convinced me there was no God?  My college courses, where evolution was the ONLY theory presented.  When only one side is presented, one cannot make an intelligent decision.

If the ONLY example given for voluntary tithing is on one's income, many will reach the wrong conclusion that only income is used for tithing.

The whole issue of voluntary tithing is a farce as far as I am concerned because it is nothing by voluntary giving.  I can voluntarily give whatever amount I want, of anything I want, to whomever I want, whether it be a tenth of something or not.  WHY is it necessary to include a percentage in the giving?  IT IS NOTHING BUT A FARCE USED BY THOSE WHO WANT TO "THINK" THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING SPECIAL.  IT IS ALL ABOUT THE TITHER AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD.  MAKES ONE FEEL GOOD.  Doesn't change the FACT that the tithe one gives today has NOTHING to do with any of the three tithes God commanded.  It is done for SELFISH reasons.  To make one feel good.

It's not following any example from Jesus.  It's not following Abram's example unless it is done on war spoils, and done one time only.  It's not following Jacob's example of a vow.  It is a farce to encourage giving of one's income.

PS @ garyarnold, did you know of this: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-676553.0.html#msg8403977

I participated in that blog.

Voluntary tithes can never be a HOLY tithe.  A HOLY tithe had to come from the Holy land.

I have to admit that this blog has opened my eyes and I have learned much from it.

However, isn't it odd that I can find no websites or sermons where voluntary tithing is taught where anyone says you can tithe on whatever you want, wherever you want, and do it only once or as often as you wish, EXCEPT on this blog?

The "mainstream" Christian does not see voluntary tithing this way.  The vast majority of Christians who believe tithing is an option, or voluntary, believe it must be on their gross income, every week or month or year.  I see no one trying to educate these people.

You may find one pastor here and one there that teaches voluntary tithing as we have come up with here, but those are definitely in the minority.  The majority teach tithing on gross income from every source of income and every time you get income.

If a person is taught that tithing IS (must be) a tenth of their income, then whether it is taught as mandatory or voluntary, it is still false teaching, and that teaching should be corrected and/or flat out condemned.

If those teaching voluntary tithing as we have concluded here, I would have no problem with it.  But in the vast majority of cases it isn't taught that way.  Therefore, I have a problem with teaching voluntary tithing UNLESS the whole truth is told.

I have gone through most of wordtalk's website and do not find where he ever says that voluntary tithing can be on anything other than one's income. I also have not found in all his articles where he says tithing can be giving anywhere except the church.

Why is that?

It certainly appears that either wordtalk doesn't want to expose to others that tithing can be a tenth of anything they desire, and can be given to whomever this wish. It certainly appears that worktalk has an agenda, and that agenda is NOT telling the whole truth but rather to tell only that which fits his own tithing preference.

If wordtalk is sincere and really wants the tell the truth, he will revise his website and tell the whole truth - that tithing does not have to be a tenth of one's income, and that the tithe does not have to be given in church. Otherwise, wordtalk is guilty of manipulation by withholding a big part of the issue.

Here is what I have concluded from this blog:

If I give a tenth of my income to the church on a regular basis, I AM A TITHER.

If I give a one-time tenth of one paycheck during my lifetime, I AM A TITHER.

If I give a tenth of my clothes to the Salvation Army, I AM A TITHER.

If I give a tenth of what I have in my pocket, I AM A TITHER.

If I give a tenth of my time to help someone, I AM A TITHER.

etc. etc. etc.

Therefore, when someone says they are a tither, we really have no clue as to what they believe a tithe is.

@Joagbaje,  Abel did not give firstfruits.  Firstfruits and firstlings are not the same.

Zikkyy said, “the question i would ask is: since the modern day tithing is a modified version of biblical tithing activities, who defines what tithing is or should be? Pastor or the man rendering his tenth?”

We can spend the next several days or weeks discussing what constitutes a voluntary tithe.  Does it have to be money?  Can it be this or that?  Must it be given in/to church?  The problem is, what are pastors teaching?

First, I have attended many churches in California, and every single one I have attended has used Malachi and said you are robbing God if you don't tithe ON YOUR GROSS INCOME, and BRING IT TO THE CHURCH.  Later, AFTER having meetings with many pastors, two of them started teaching voluntary tithing, but STILL referred to it as a tenth of GROSS INCOME, and that it was to be taken to the church.

I'd like to know how many pastors who teach voluntary tithing say that the tithe can be on anything you want, and you can give it to whomever you want.

Since wordtalk has either said or inferred that he knows of many pastors who teach voluntary tithing, maybe (but I doubt it) wordtalk will tell us how many of those pastors say that voluntary tithing IS a tenth of your INCOME, and should or must be taken to the church.  And how many say you can voluntarily tithe by giving a tenth of whatever you want, to wherever you want.  Can we get an HONEST answer to these questions from wordtalk?  Just base this on YOUR experience - how do pastors who teach voluntary tithing define tithing?

Edit: I have listened to many pastors on YouTube who do in fact teach voluntary tithing, but every single one of them has defined tithing to be a tenth of your gross income.

@Wordtalk,

I said the KJV of the Bible does not use the word income. I don't care what Hebrew definitions are, words have several meanings and the KJV did NOT choose income. You must think you are smarter than those who translated the KJV.

I am out of here for now. Wordtalk is just to irritating.

@wordtalk,

And where did the KJV ever use the word income?

The word used is not the issue.  A duck is a duck whether you call it a duck or not.  Income is income whether you call it income or not.  An asset is an asset whether you call it an asset or not.

When you want to know if something is income or an asset, consult a reliable accountant.

No matter what wordtalk says, there is NO example in the Bible of anyone tithing on income.  Wordtalk obviously doesn't know what income is.

Therefore, no point in discussing accounting terms with someone who lacks the knowledge to understand the very basics in accounting.  Jacob did not vow to tithe on income.  Abram did not tithe on income.  None of the tithing commands was on income.  And I am not saying this because the word income is not used in the KJV, I am saying this because none of those examples meets the definition of income.  But they do meet the definition of assets.

Wordtalk needs another accounting class before he can intelligently discuss income.

Does nobody get my point in asking for the difference between voluntary giving and voluntary tithing?

Voluntary giving - I can give what I want to wherever I want.  I can give a loaf of bread to my neighbor.  It is voluntary and not restricted as to what I give or who I give it to.

Voluntary tithing - Can I also give a tenth of whatever I want, and to wherever I want?  Can I give a tenth of a loaf of breat to my neighbor as a tithe?  OR is it restricted as to what I can give and who I must give it to?

Abram did not give a tenth of his wealth nor did he give a tenth of his regular income.  He gave a tenth of a one-time event.  Therefore, am I a tither if I give a tenth of something I earn or receive one time?

This is why voluntary tithing is a joke.  It is IDENTICAL to voluntary giving, except whatever is given must be a tenth of something.  Therefore, no need to be bothered with voluntary tithing.  Just be a giver and forget it.

On wordtalks website, he defines voluntary tithing as follows:
"the voluntary giving of a tenth of my income"

Not just a tenth of anything, but a tenth of his income.  Therefore, wordtalk is using his own definition, or one he took from man-made dictionaries, or one he heard a pastor use.  Yet, nowhere in the scriptures was tithing commanded on anyone's income.

Now, is everyone here supposed to accept wordtalks definition for tithing?  It's not Biblical.

I am not the dumb one, wordtalk. What Abram did doesn't in any way answer the question:

What is difference between voluntary giving and voluntary tithing, other than the tenth?

@Nuclearboy,

@Gary: voluntary "tithing" means (to ME) giving a tenth to whoever as you decide to do so

Tenth of what? Does it have to be one's total income? Can it be a loaf of bread?

Again, wordtalk avoids answering a simple question:

What is difference between voluntary giving and voluntary tithing, other than the tenth?

NIV says in Deut 14:22 to "be sure to set aside a tenth of all your fields produce"

Says nothing about income.  Doesn't say the carpenter was to set aside a tenth of all their work or earnings.  Doesn't say the fishermen should set aside a tenth of the fish they caught.  It is specific - a tenth of the PRODUCE (FOOD) to be EATEN at the yearly feast.

What is difference between voluntary giving and voluntary tithing, other than the tenth?

I can voluntarily give whatever I want to whoever I want.  I can give a loaf of bread to the church.

If tithing merely means giving a tenth, then I can tithe a loaf of bread and that would qualify as voluntary tithing.

Otherwise, please explain the difference between voluntary giving and voluntary tithing, and please back up your explanation with something other than man-made definitions.

@Gary: you have given a tithe of what was on you but NOT YOUR tithe!

OK, Nuclearboy, then what is the definition of tithe?  Where does it say a tithe must be computed on one's income, other than man-made dictionaries?

IF we are going to say that we can voluntarily give tithes today, then the answer to both my question and that of Enigma must be that they would both qualify as tithing, and both of us would be tithers.

To say otherwise means someone is making up the rules and we didn't follow them.

This is exactly why I say giving tithes is a joke because it can mean whatever one wants it to mean.

@Nuclearboy,

I never said the $10 was my income. My income may have been a million dollars. But I take $10 to church and give a tenth of that amount. Did I tithe?

The answer is either yes, or no, in which case you are now defining a tithe as a tenth of my income.

OK - here is my question to wordtalk:

Now that we are no longer under the law, and now that we are under grace,

If I take ten dollars to church, and I give a tenth of that ten dollars (one dollar), would you say that I was a tither?  Did I not tithe?  Is that not tithing?  After all, I gave a tenth of what I had with me.

@nuclearboy,

Since wordtalk said the tithe didn't have to be money, and that it could be whatever you wanted it to be, that opened the door that the tithe could be anything from food to clothes.

Since wordtalk said the tithe didn't have to be given in/to church, that opened the door that the tithe could be given to anyone.

Since wordtalk insists the word tithe merely means a tenth, then I say if I take $10 to church and give one dollar, I am tithing.  Wordtalk won't acknowledge that I would then be a tither.

Wordtalk is totally legalistic, but not Biblically.

Once wordtalk said that tithing did not have to be money, and that tithing does not have to be given in/to the church, he trapped himself.

Now he won't answer simple questions because of the trap that he set for himself!